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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: The Premier on January 25, 2011, 05:38:18 PM

Title: Dead Malls
Post by: The Premier on January 25, 2011, 05:38:18 PM
Went online on the Akron Beacon Journal earlier today and I stumbled on this story that the final two chain stores in Rolling Acres Mall was closing. (http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/114496299.html) Sears was closing that store there by April 3. The J.C. Penney outlet store will be closing either this year or next year. :-(

I have went to that mall on several occasions; at one point it had dozens of stores. The last time I went there there was only the J.C. Penney outlet store (which I went in) and Sears and each were cut off from the closed off mall.

So the question is this: Did anyone ventured to a dead mall or went to a mall that would be closed down the road? And what were your memories?

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jdb1234 on January 25, 2011, 06:34:45 PM
Quote from: The Premier on January 25, 2011, 05:38:18 PM
Went online on the Akron Beacon Journal earlier today and I stumbled on this story that the final two chain stores in Rolling Acres Mall was closing. (http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/114496299.html) Sears was closing that store there by April 3. The J.C. Penney outlet store will be closing either this year or next year. :-(

I have went to that mall on several occasions; at one point it had dozens of stores. The last time I went there there was only the J.C. Penney outlet store (which I went in) and Sears and each were cut off from the closed off mall.

So the question is this: Did anyone ventured to a dead mall or went to a mall that would be closed down the road? And what were your memories?



I have been in 2: Eastwood Mall and Century Plaza in Birmingham.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mightyace on January 25, 2011, 07:49:56 PM
The 100 Oaks mall died then was revived in the mid 90s and has died again.

Vanderbilt Medical took over the old mall area.

However, many of the shops with exterior access still exist as a kind of strip mall below the Vanderbilt offices.

Another dead mall was the Church Street Centre in downtown Nashville.  The main branch of the Nashville Public Library occupies that space today.

I also remember Rolling Acres Mall.  I went there some when I first moved to Akron.  But, as the Chapel Hill Mall area (which was also closest to me grew), I stopped going to Rolling Acres.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: PAHighways on January 25, 2011, 08:41:48 PM
Greengate Mall in Greensburg, PA was a dying mall for a long time.  The last time I visited it was when Wards was still in business, and their closure basically signaled the end as J. C. Penny had moved out in 1992 and Lazarus closed in the late 90s.  I remember there being only a handful of stores remaining.

It was demolished in the middle of the last decade and replaced with a big box center called "Greengate Centre (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Greensburg,+PA&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=32.38984,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Greensburg,+Westmoreland,+Pennsylvania&ll=40.30505,-79.58053&spn=0.003805,0.013733&z=17&layer=c&cbll=40.305073,-79.580418&panoid=PdkcxAuOLHVSgdgBLePoBA&cbp=12,346.48,,0,1.07)."
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Revive 755 on January 25, 2011, 09:41:53 PM
Been in a few (using the list at deadmalls.com as a basis); granted my memory has faded on many:

Missouri
* Crestwood Plaza around St. Louis - maybe had I-44 been built with MO 366 as the north outer road, this one would have more signs of life
* St. Louis Centre
* Wentzville Crossing (or whatever the now-defunct mall near the I-70/US 40- 61 interchange was - was out here long before the interstate upgrades to US 40-61 really began in St. Charles County
* Northwest Plaza - not on the list, but it doesn't sound like it is doing well either.  Haven't been to this one since before the decline really started.

Iowa
* Old Capital Mall in Iowa City - should have been catering to students more
* Westdale Mall in Cedar Rapids - wasn't exceptionally busy, but never seemed excessively dead to me

Pennsylvania
* Parkway Center Mall in Pittsburgh - just stopped here once when in the area, this mall definitely seemed to be having a lack of business
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on January 25, 2011, 11:21:23 PM
The old Jackson Mall has now been converted into a medical complex known as the Jackson Medical Mall. At one time, the Department of Defense was look at the mall for a huge project that would've created 7,000 jobs here during the Clinton administration, but the idea was eventually scrapped. Another dying mall is across town at Metrocenter, but there are plans to revive it as a mixed-used development. In fact, the city of Jackson recently announced that a couple of city agencies will move into the space once occupied by Belk.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: english si on January 26, 2011, 07:41:52 AM
There's a couple of eeriely empty malls in Southampton, but the worst is Eastreet (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=50.901786,-1.399397&spn=0,0.002411&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=50.901786,-1.399393&panoid=RcA8MSIYGYPeSO5mOxt8KA&cbp=12,87.56,,0,-3.71) - It now has just one shop (a charity shop), but it only had about 3 (and more than a few store spaces available to let) the one time I went there in the 5 years I lived in the city, at the height of the economic bubble. Outside is fairly busy, but inside it's empty. It's not helped by being an old and ugly building that isn't that pleasant to be inside, nor is it helped by later malls pulling the retail centre of the city westwards (it took me about a year of living in the city before I realised there was a big Debenhams department store on East Street) - but that doesn't explain why the street outside isn't doing badly and is fairly busy at weekends.

Hopefully it'll get turned into something useful (would have made a good site to put the Titantic Museum, but they are building it already. Perhaps build the permanent ice-rink the local paper has been complaining about the lack of for years?).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on January 26, 2011, 07:43:23 AM
There a website called Deadmalls.com www.deadmalls.com who listed a list of dead malls in the US as well as some in Canada.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: berberry on January 26, 2011, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: golden eagle on January 25, 2011, 11:21:23 PM
The old Jackson Mall has now been converted into a medical complex known as the Jackson Medical Mall. At one time, the Department of Defense was look at the mall for a huge project that would've created 7,000 jobs here during the Clinton administration, but the idea was eventually scrapped. Another dying mall is across town at Metrocenter, but there are plans to revive it as a mixed-used development. In fact, the city of Jackson recently announced that a couple of city agencies will move into the space once occupied by Belk.

Yep, Metrocenter looks really crappy these days.  Stay out of the parking lot, unless you're in a humvee or something like.  But there's potential for it beyond a few city offices:  it might actually be re-born as a shopping mall once again.  If and when the project to upgrade US 80 actually gets started, then I won't be surprised to see renewed interest in the mall from retailers, IF the city can keep the area sufficiently crime-free long enough.

A few months ago there were news reports about the 80 project that made it sound as though the contracts had been let and everything was a go.  But the last time I drove through there, a little over a month ago, I saw no sign of construction.  I'm not sure if that means funding somehow fell through or, I think more likely, the project won't commence until the I-20 Gallatin interchange rebuild is finished, owing to the detours that have no doubt increased the traffic load on the highway temporarily.

If the 80 project is still on, then I think there's no question that something big is going to happen at Metrocenter.  Whether it'll involve renovators or wrecking crews, I dunno.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US71 on January 26, 2011, 10:54:16 AM
Phoenix Village Mall in Ft Smith is seeing new life as an expo center & professional office complex. I wonder if they'll ever remove the old Venture sign ?  :-P

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Andrew T. on January 26, 2011, 12:58:54 PM
The Mid-Cities Mall:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.static.flickr.com%2F4078%2F4899269712_a0f4c49b13.jpg&hash=04b587f5940a351b7eb77e7d6ae7d63e41c96047)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrew-turnbull/sets/72157613143693564/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrew-turnbull/sets/72157613143693564/)

This enclosed shopping center was built in 1967-68 and was successful for about twenty years.  Inline tenants began to leave as early as the 1980s and continuing until 2000, when the interior closed and maintenance was deferred.  One anchor store remained open until January 2011.  As of last Thursday, however, the entire structure is completely empty, and most of it is in very poor physical condition.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OracleUsr on January 26, 2011, 12:59:39 PM
I fondly remember some of the malls on that list.  Greenville Mall in SC had a Camelot Music, which had sheet music books I liked to buy and play around with.  McAlister Square was okay, not much there Haywood didn't have.

In NC, I remember the ice skating rink at Carolina Circle, and the Ruby Tuesdays overlooking the rink.  And, of course, the huge arcade nearby.

Signal Hill Mall is barely breathing but still going, however.  Nice to be able to pop in there for a quick part from Radio Shack or a book from Bookland.

As for Burlington Square, it is being revitalized and reverted back to its original name, Holly Hill Mall.  Remember going there from my grandparents' house for Baskin Robbins...
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Mr_Northside on January 26, 2011, 02:21:57 PM
I don't think Century III Mall, south of Pittsburgh on PA-51, has been doing all that well the last couple of years (Occasionally the local papers will have articles about it's vast vacancies.)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bryant5493 on January 26, 2011, 02:29:31 PM
Union Station Mall, formerly Shannon Mall, in Union City (GA) is a dead mall. Big Poppa (the property owner) from "Real Housewives of Atlanta" owes Georgia Power over $200,000.00, and Georgia Power cut off the power. The only places that had their own meters were Sears and Macy*s, and Macy*s is closing.


Be welll,

Bryant
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Scott5114 on January 26, 2011, 07:00:14 PM
Quote from: english si on January 26, 2011, 07:41:52 AM
There's a couple of eeriely empty malls in Southampton, but the worst is Eastreet (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=50.901786,-1.399397&spn=0,0.002411&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=50.901786,-1.399393&panoid=RcA8MSIYGYPeSO5mOxt8KA&cbp=12,87.56,,0,-3.71) -

It's merely getting what it deserves for using the Chicago typeface in its logo. Exacerbated by horizontally stretching it. :P
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: The Premier on January 26, 2011, 08:12:20 PM
Quote from: Bryant5493 on January 26, 2011, 02:29:31 PM
Union Station Mall, formerly Shannon Mall, in Union City (GA) is a dead mall. Big Poppa (the property owner) from "Real Housewives of Atlanta" owes Georgia Power over $200,000.00, and Georgia Power cut off the power.

That's the exact same thing that happened with Rolling Acres; the previous owners owed FirstEnergy nearly $130,000 and Summit County nearly $269,000.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on January 27, 2011, 12:17:08 AM
Quote from: berberry on January 26, 2011, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: golden eagle on January 25, 2011, 11:21:23 PM
The old Jackson Mall has now been converted into a medical complex known as the Jackson Medical Mall. At one time, the Department of Defense was look at the mall for a huge project that would've created 7,000 jobs here during the Clinton administration, but the idea was eventually scrapped. Another dying mall is across town at Metrocenter, but there are plans to revive it as a mixed-used development. In fact, the city of Jackson recently announced that a couple of city agencies will move into the space once occupied by Belk.

Yep, Metrocenter looks really crappy these days.  Stay out of the parking lot, unless you're in a humvee or something like.  But there's potential for it beyond a few city offices:  it might actually be re-born as a shopping mall once again.  If and when the project to upgrade US 80 actually gets started, then I won't be surprised to see renewed interest in the mall from retailers, IF the city can keep the area sufficiently crime-free long enough.

A few months ago there were news reports about the 80 project that made it sound as though the contracts had been let and everything was a go.  But the last time I drove through there, a little over a month ago, I saw no sign of construction.  I'm not sure if that means funding somehow fell through or, I think more likely, the project won't commence until the I-20 Gallatin interchange rebuild is finished, owing to the detours that have no doubt increased the traffic load on the highway temporarily.

If the 80 project is still on, then I think there's no question that something big is going to happen at Metrocenter.  Whether it'll involve renovators or wrecking crews, I dunno.

The mastermind on renovating Metrocenter is David Watkins, a local attorney who, along with former New Orleans Saint Deuce McAllister, was also instrumental in restoring the once-abandoned King Edward Hotel in downtown Jackson. His vision for Metrocenter is make it a mixed-use development with shops, office, living space and with an indoor water park. Watkins was actually prepared to make an offer to buy the Metrocenter when it was in danger of being foreclosed, but the owners paid up. I'm not sure where the plans are at this time beyond moving some city offices there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: njroadhorse on January 27, 2011, 02:20:10 PM
One mall that comes to mind for me in New Jersey is the Livingston Mall.  While not dead yet, I think it will be in the foreseeable future.  Businesses vacated it left and right, and the existing businesses are scrambling around filling up the open spaces.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on January 27, 2011, 02:26:32 PM
Quote from: The Premier on January 25, 2011, 05:38:18 PM
So the question is this: Did anyone ventured to a dead mall or went to a mall that would be closed down the road? And what were your memories?

Been in more than a few that were obviously dying, or later would die.

Orland Park Place - A "what the hell were they thinking!?!" location for this mall.  Anchored by Ward's and Wieboldt's (there's an auspicious pair of anchors), as well as MainStreet (later Kohl's), this mall was located across the street from Orland Square, a rather successful mall in Orland Park, IL.  It's been converted to a series of big box retailers using the former mall building.  The only sole surviving store from the mall days is Kohl's.

Jefferson Square Mall (Joliet, IL) - Died from anchor starvation.  Anchored by Ward's and Wieboldt's (there's that pair again), this mall lost Wieboldt's and never recovered.  20 years of failed reviving efforts after the exit Wieboldt's, then Ward's at the end of that chain, ended in the mall's teardown for a Walmart Supercenter and Menards.

Charlestowne Mall (St Charles, IL) - Should've been successful but...  This mall was loacted on the east side of St Charles, away from the Randall Rd corridor, and too close, IMHO, to the pre-existing Stratford Square Mall (itself struggling a bit).  Anchored by Sears, JCPenney, and Carson Pirie Scott in 1991, this lost Penney's in 2000 (became Von Maur), gained a B-level Kohl's, and will lose Sears this year.  The corridors between the anchors are empty and dead quiet.  Had this mall been built on the west side of St Charles at IL-64 and Randall Rd instead of IL-64 and Kirk Rd, it would be thriving.

Randhurst - This mall in Mt Prospect, IL, was designed by Victor Gruen and was successful for years.  It was anchored by Ward's, Wieboldt's (yes, those two again), and Carson Pirie Scott.  It gained Joseph Spiess and MainStreet (later Kohl's) before Wieboldt's failed in 1986.  Bergner's took up the slack until merging with Carson's, then the anchor shuffles began.  JCPenney took over the Carson's spot while Carson's moved into the Bergner's/Wieboldt's spot.  Within ten years, it fell apart and Penney's and Ward's were gone.  Now it is being turned into a lifestyle center with Carson's at its core.

Lincoln Mall (Matteson, IL) - Location seems good, crime is not high, but the mall still started to die.  It all comes down to the anchors again.  The mall was originally anchored by Ward's, Wieboldt's (uh-oh), Carson Pirie Scott, and JCPenney.  Wieboldt's failed to be replaced with Sears (stolen from Park Forest Plaza) a full decade later, then Ward's and Penney's left five years after that, leaving the mall half-empty.  The Ward's wing is rubble, the center court exists as do the Sears and Carson's wings (with stores).  Target set up shop on the ring road, and ironically, JCPenney is back on the ring road.

Brickyard Mall (Chicago, IL) - I went there while it was still very busy.  Anchored by JCPenney and Ward's, you can see the anchor problem again.  Ward's left (chain folded), followed by Penney's (one anchor cannot support a large mall).  Now, it's a shopping center of a different sort.

Dixie Square (Harvey, IL) - Never been in it, but drove around the closed structure.  Anchored by JCPenney, Ward's, and Trunstyle, it had three problems" 1. Viewed as a high-crime are due to changing demographics. 2. Not near enough to major highways (I-294, I-57). 3. Anchor loss and failure - Ward's was never really strong and left early in 1977, Turnstyle was fairly weak as well.  Penney's held on to the end in 1979.

Lakehurst (Waukegan, IL) - Again, never went in it, but just around it.  Anchored originally by Carson Pirie Scott, JCPenney, and Wieboldt's, this mall suffered from a few different ailments.  1. Poor location - it was hard to reach from I-94, and required exiting IL-120 and US-41 to reach.  2. Poor visibility - One would never know this mall existed along I-94, less than a mile away.  3. Anchor loss and failure - first Wieboldt's, then Ward's (which filled up half of Wieboldt's).  Carson's was the last to leave.

I've noticed a trend in dead and dying malls, and do not believe the mall is an outdated concept of any sort.  We merely had too many of them in poor locations.  The reason's I've seen malls die are as follows:

1. Poor location/accessibility.  The location is hard to see from the main roads, or is so far off the main roads it is difficult to reach.  South Commons Mall in Bolingbrook, IL is a classic here.  Located between Bolingbrook and Romeville, the location seemed good, but...  No one from Romeville went that far north to shop, and Bolingbrook residents did not venture south of I-55 to shop.

2. Poor anchor choices.  Ward's was an obvious one in the long run, but malls with other strong anchors could survive the loss of Ward's (see North Riverside Park Mall, Yorktown SC).

3. Poor management.  Fairly obvious, IMHO.  A great location, solid anchor choices, even decent demographics, but nothing can save it due to crappy management.  Lincoln Mall (see above) is a great example.

4. Perception of high crime.  This is what killed Northridge Mall in Milwaukee, WI.  Good location, anchors, even the management was supposedly good but, the perception of crime drove shoppers away.

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on January 27, 2011, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: Bryant5493 on January 26, 2011, 02:29:31 PM
Union Station Mall, formerly Shannon Mall, in Union City (GA) is a dead mall. Big Poppa (the property owner) from "Real Housewives of Atlanta" owes Georgia Power over $200,000.00, and Georgia Power cut off the power. The only places that had their own meters were Sears and Macy*s, and Macy*s is closing.


Be welll,

Bryant

Since you're in the ATL, what's the status with North Dekalb and Greenbriar Mall? I know they were on the down swing ten years ago when I was living over there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Scott5114 on January 27, 2011, 05:57:56 PM
I'm sort of surprised that Indian Springs Mall in Kansas City, KS never showed up on DeadMalls.com. I only remember going there twice; once when we ate in the Italian restaurant there with my grandma, and another time when we had to visit some government office that had set up shop there. (Yeah, that's when you know your mall is dead.) I remember there being some sort of Mexican rug place next to one of the anchor spots, which had been replaced by an antique store. (Most of the space was unused and blocked off by the antique store tables.)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Landshark on January 28, 2011, 03:59:47 PM
The two I am familiar with have both successfully transitioned into open air giant box complexes.

South Sound Center in Lacey, WA (next to I-5 on the eastern border of Olympia) was one of the first indoor shopping centers in the state.  In the late 70's a larger mall was built on Olympia's westside, but that did not hurt South Sound Center as the new Capital Mall poached its anchors from downtown Olympia.  South Sound Center was anchored by Sears, Peoples/Mervyn's, Woolworth, and Place Two, a smaller footprint Nordstrom.  The mall's decline began when Nordstrom discontinued Place Two.  The second strike was when it lost Woolworth when the company died. 

The mall recovered by improving and expanding the adjacent strip mall frontage and adding strip mall frontage to a portion of the old mall, where Radio Shack, Hallmark, a jewelery store, Red Wing Shoes, and a bunch of other mall tenants relocated to.  Then the entire mall between Mervyn's (now Kohl's) and Sears was demolished and replaced with a Target Store. 


The other mall around here that died and brought back to life in another form is Lakewood Mall in Lakewood, just outside of Tacoma.  Lakewood Mall was built on the site of a large strip mall in the late 80's.  It was anchored by JC Penny, Lamonts, Mervyn's, and Emporium.  The mall was also ringed by big box stores.

Lakewood Mall, the indoor portion at least, suffered because of its location.  It was 2 miles from I-5, so it was out of sight and out of mind for most people.  It was also 5 miles away from the giant Tacoma Mall, which was conveniently located adjacent to I-5.  Another hit was the growth of South Hill Mall in Puyallup, located adjacent to a freeway 10 miles east.  Lakewood was built out older suburbs while the new suburban growth was happening around Puyallup. 

In the early 00's, the indoor portion was demolished and Lakewood Towne Center was born.  A power center and a civic center/city hall was added with the space opened up by demolishing the mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bryant5493 on January 30, 2011, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on January 27, 2011, 05:26:40 PMSince you're in the ATL, what's the status with North Dekalb and Greenbriar Mall? I know they were on the down swing ten years ago when I was living over there.

Greenbriar Mall is still open. It's a shell of its former self, of course. Circuit City closed and moved to the Camp Creek MarketPlace, and then, the Circuit City stores closed down in Georgia not long after that.

North DeKalb Mall, I've not been there in awhile, but I think that it's still open.


Be well,

Bryant
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on January 30, 2011, 09:33:08 PM
Quote from: Bryant5493 on January 26, 2011, 02:29:31 PM
Union Station Mall, formerly Shannon Mall, in Union City (GA) is a dead mall. Big Poppa (the property owner) from "Real Housewives of Atlanta" owes Georgia Power over $200,000.00, and Georgia Power cut off the power. The only places that had their own meters were Sears and Macy*s, and Macy*s is closing.


Be welll,

Bryant

And Big Poppa hasn't updated the mall's website (http://www.unionstationmallga.com/). Edgwood Mall (http://www.edgewoodmall.net/) in McComb, MS has a much better website and they're in a much smaller location.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 3467 on January 30, 2011, 10:46:37 PM
Sandburg Mall Galesburg. It has 4 decent anchors-Sears, Pennys,Bergners and Kmart but unlike the other cases  almost no other stores. It lost those to the bew WalMart Complex. Location is good and the buildings are solid. Bad managemnt. Overpaid for teh buildling and overcharged for the retail space. Galesburg was the Canary in the coal mine for the Great recession. I recall Obama mentioned that in the last STOU.
For instance McDonalds liked it business volume but could not make money because of rent
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US71 on January 31, 2011, 11:00:53 AM
WOW! So sad to hear about Lincoln Mall. I remember going there in High School.  It was "the" thing to do, back then.

I also remember Park Forest South, which was an "open air mall" as some called it.

I vaguely remember Dixie Square, as well.


How is Orland Square doing these days?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on January 31, 2011, 03:58:31 PM
Quote from: US71 on January 31, 2011, 11:00:53 AM
WOW! So sad to hear about Lincoln Mall. I remember going there in High School.  It was "the" thing to do, back then.

I also remember Park Forest South, which was an "open air mall" as some called it.

I vaguely remember Dixie Square, as well.


How is Orland Square doing these days?

Orland Square seems to be doing rather well as the center of its own retail corridor.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SP Cook on February 25, 2011, 07:38:09 AM
Unique end to an almost dead mall:

http://www.highpoint.edu/news_events/article.cfm?ArticleID=2381&viewall=false (http://www.highpoint.edu/news_events/article.cfm?ArticleID=2381&viewall=false)

http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-oak-hollow-hpu-110224,0,7082497.story (http://www.myfox8.com/news/wghp-story-oak-hollow-hpu-110224,0,7082497.story)

Classic bad mall idea.  High Point is the third of three cities in the "Piedmont Triad" and while HP people seem willing to go to Winston-Salem or Greensboro, the reverse is not apparently true.  Mall unable to compete with the larger malls nor with several new retail outlets on NC 68.  Pretty much down to "anchor stores" and businesses not normally found in a mall, obviously paying low rent. 

HPU campus is about a mile away.  Unclear what their long term goal would be, the mall property is about the size of its campus.  School has made some noise about adding a law school and pharmacy school, but that would only be a tiny fraction of the property.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on February 25, 2011, 02:10:21 PM
Anything new on Union Station in Georgia? That was the one that had its electricity and water cut off.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bryant5493 on February 26, 2011, 12:26:16 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on February 25, 2011, 02:10:21 PM
Anything new on Union Station in Georgia? That was the one that had its electricity and water cut off.

I've not heard anything new about Union Station. Macy*s is closing -- or has already closed -- but I haven't been down to Union City in awhile.


Be well,

Bryant
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hobsini2 on February 26, 2011, 04:49:21 PM
For me 4 come to mind.
The first one to close was Old Chicago on IL Rt 53 south of I-55 in Bolingbrook, IL.  This was the Mall of America before the one in Minnesota was built.  Indoor amusement park and roughly 100 stores. It closed sometime around 1981, when i was 6, because someone died on the roller coaster, the family sued, and the mall went bankrupt.  This has now become an Auto Auction that I used to work at.
The second one to close was across the street from Old Chicago called South Commons Mall.  A much smaller mall that had KMart and Carson Pirie Scott if i remember correctly.  This closed shortly after Old Chicago c. 1983?  KMart stayed in it for about 5 years longer then shut.  It later became a Menard's until the newer one was built about 2 miles north.  The land has since been added to the Auto Auction.
The third one was Park Plaza in Downtown Oshkosh.  My grandparents, who live in Oshkosh, used to take me there anytime that we visited them.  This was the first mall i can remember actually being in.  I remember these fountains that line up along the center of each main corridor and always getting Bubblegum Ice Cream from Bressler's. It was roughly 70 stores and 3 anchors.  I remember Sears and JC Penney and i think the thrid was Prange/Prangeway.  When the mall closed in the early 90s, it was for a short time converted into a tech college (Fox Valley Tech if i remember) and the hotel remained there, think it was a Radison.  It's been so long since i was in that part of Oshkosh, i think it is now a convention center.
The last one was Jefferson Square Mall in Joliet IL on US 52 west of IL 7.  It had a huge Montgomery Ward's but when Ward's went under, the mall later declined fast.  For a bit of time, the Illinois DMV in Joliet was inside the mall.  It is now all Menard's.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on February 26, 2011, 07:37:19 PM
^^  South Commons had Crawford's, not Carson's, at the south end.  It had a pretty good little bookstore as well.  It failed because people from Romeoville never went that far north to shop, and people from Bolingbrook didn't go south of I-55 to shop.  Kmart later moved to Maple Park Place (Boughton and Naperville Rds).

Jefferson Sq started its long decline when Wieboldt's failed in 1986.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 3467 on February 26, 2011, 07:53:41 PM
Old Chicago was the right idea at the wrong time . They were expecting the North South Tollway and the growth years too early.
Most of teh suburban growth was north in Lake and Dupage and as the cenus now shows it Will, Kane and Kendall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on February 27, 2011, 12:02:58 AM
One mall that was dying but managed to re-invent itself is Cloverleaf Mall in Hattiesburg, MS, at the corner of U.S. 49 & 11. Cloverleaf fell victim to the newly-built Turtle Creek Mall in the mid-90s. I was in college at Southern Mississippi (hence my nickname) when this transition went on. Cloverleaf did manage to convert itself into a discount mall. 

Another mall that's on the downswing is Southland Mall in south Memphis.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hobsini2 on February 27, 2011, 03:13:16 AM
Quote from: Brandon on February 26, 2011, 07:37:19 PM
^^  South Commons had Crawford's, not Carson's, at the south end.  It had a pretty good little bookstore as well.  It failed because people from Romeoville never went that far north to shop, and people from Bolingbrook didn't go south of I-55 to shop.  Kmart later moved to Maple Park Place (Boughton and Naperville Rds).

Jefferson Sq started its long decline when Wieboldt's failed in 1986.
I completely forgot about Crawford's at South Commons and Wieboldt's at Jeff Sq. TY sir.:)  But I do remember the Buster Brown shoe store at S Com for some reason.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: MDOTFanFB on March 01, 2011, 05:05:19 PM
Local ones:

Livonia Mall, Livonia, MI: Had I-96 been built along Grand River and an I-x96 built along 7 Mile Road, then it would still be a mall today. It was a victim of how Detroit's western suburbs were "too malled".
Summit Place Mall, Waterford Township, MI: Maybe if the Lodge was built along Telegraph Road or the M-59 freeway extended to Waterford, then it would see more signs of life, at least one of it's outparcel strip malls contained Michigan's first Best Buy.
Universal Mall, Warren, MI
Wonderland Mall, Livonia, MI
Northtowne Square Mall, Toledo, OH: Had the nearby Franklin Square mall not expand and the Frenchtown Square Mall not built, then it would've survived
Portside Marketplace, Toledo, OH: In the early 80's, downtown Toledo was declining, the Lion and Macy's stores closed. The Portside Marketplace tried to revive downtown, but was in a downward spiral from the beginning. Now, despite recent downtown Toledo projects such as the Fifth Third Field stadium and Huntington Center arena, there is still a serious lack of retail.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: wriddle082 on March 04, 2011, 01:57:18 PM
In Nashville, Bellevue Center has been mostly dark for about the past 3 years (Sears is the only open store).  Back when it was built around 1988, it only had Dillard's and Castner Knott (which became Proffitt's, then Hecht's, then Macy*s) as anchors, but most of the other stores were unique to Nashville.  There were two stub corridor endings where additional anchors were planned, and both of them had 3D sketches of a continuing corridor.  At one point, one of the stub walls had Macy*s banners silkscreened onto it, but it never came to fruition in that location.  The other stub ending later became the Sears that still operates.  The primary factors that led to its death are 1) land around it was already established residential so not as much outparcel growth, 2) what precious little land that was available was overpriced, 3) specialty stores served the locals in Bellevue well who were middle to upper middle class, but didn't serve the working class shoppers in nearby Cheatham and Dickson Counties, therefore not a viable regional mall, and 4) Cool Springs Galleria opened in 1990, was at least twice as big (now has 5 anchors), had tons of available outparcel acreage, and is still a success to this day.  The current mall property owners are still devising plans for redevelopment, which they have time to do considering the state of the economy, but they've worked out an agreement with Metro Nashville Government to build a new Bellevue Public Library branch on the site and receive tax breaks.  Many in the area want Ikea, which currently has no Tennessee presence, to come and be the main attraction.

As for other dead malls, Harding Mall (small neighborhood mall built in late 60's at the corner of Nolensville Rd and Harding Pl, had a Castner Knott (later Dillard's) and a handful of other shops) was completely bulldozed about two or three years ago and a Super Walmart built in its place.  100 Oaks Mall, Nashville's first major enclosed mall with a long history, isn't dead now, but it's currently owned by Vanderbilt University, which is using it mostly as a large medical plaza, but there are still several big box stores still operating and a 27-screen movie theater next door.  Then there's Hickory Hollow Mall, a large regional mall I grew up going to that is almost dead.  The neighborhood around it has been steadily going downhill probably since the mid 90s.  I think Sears and Macy*s are still operating as anchors.  Metro Nashville is trying to find a new use for the property, whether it be to relocate the Tennessee State Fair to the site or to provide adult education services or other government services.  They definitely don't want to see the property abandoned.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: huskeroadgeek on March 04, 2011, 03:39:04 PM
Interesting-I've been to several of those(my best friend in college was from Nashville)-Hickory Hollow Mall(which was still pretty nice when I was there in the late 90s), 100 Oaks Mall(I went to a movie at the large theater) and Cool Springs Galleria.

One on the deadmalls.com website I've been to is Bannister Mall in Kansas City-several years before its demise. It was looking pretty deserted at that time-I wasn't surprised when it closed. I was just by there on I-435 a few months ago and it looks as though nothing has been done with the site yet.

These aren't on the deadmalls.com website, but there used to be two malls in downtown Lincoln. The Atrium had two levels, plus a food court in the basement. The Centrum had shops on the ground level, plus a few on the Skywalk level. Its main feature was a 6 story atrium with glass-enclosed elevators that led to an attached parking garage(the garage was 8 levels-so the top two levels of the glass-enclosed elevators looked out on the roof of the building). I used to love to ride the elevators when I was growing up. The Atrium now houses offices while the Centrum is a community college campus. The parking garage is still there, but unfortunately the 6 story atrium isn't, so no glass-enclosed elevators.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: AZDude on March 04, 2011, 09:39:43 PM
My dad told me that the Boulevard Mall in Las Vegas has closed many of their stores.  I haven't been in there since 2007.  Can't imagine what it looks like now.  I hope it doesn't close.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DeaconG on March 08, 2011, 08:04:09 PM
I'm actually surprised that Miracle City Mall in Titusville is still open...there are only four storefronts left-the anchor JC Penney, a GNC, an Orange Julius in the center of the mall and a Prison Book ministry.

I went there just before Christmas to pick up some clothing items from JC Penney and they had the mall entrance open, so I walked it.  It wasn't completely full when I moved here in the mid 80's and it's been pretty much the way it is since the mid 2000's.

The people who owned the mall were supposed to convert it into an outdoor "lifestyle" mall including condos about five years ago, but nothing has happened since.  Considering what's about to happen to KSC here in a couple of months, I don't think anyone's going to make much of an investment in this mall.

It's ironic that when I first moved here it was Searstown Mall that was in danger of closing; now it's thriving while Miracle City is on life support...
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 74/171FAN on March 09, 2011, 12:52:46 AM
Near Richmond the old Cloverleaf Mall has been closed for years now.

Something was supposed to be done to the property but I have not heard much about it lately.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on January 14, 2012, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 09, 2011, 12:52:46 AM
Near Richmond the old Cloverleaf Mall has been closed for years now.

Something was supposed to be done to the property but I have not heard much about it lately.

According to a now-dead link on Deadmalls (http://deadmalls.com/malls/cloverleaf_mall.html) a church tried to buy it in 2005. More recently I'd heard it was supposed to become a housing development. It was demolished (http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-cloverleaf-mall-demolition-20111025,0,3911624.story) late last year.

A mall that was dead for even longer before its demolition was Walnut Mall in Petersburg. It closed in 1991 (it had basically been given a death sentence when Southpark Mall opened a few miles away in 1989) but stood vacant until 2006 when it was demolished and partially redeveloped. I work at its former site, so one morning in 2010 I went over to the undeveloped part of it before work and took some pictures. I just uploaded a blog entry about it, which is why I'm bumping this thread.

http://highcontrastshair.blogspot.com/2012/01/takumis-photo-archives-walnut-mall.html
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on January 14, 2012, 06:27:54 PM
Irondequoit Mall (Medley Centre) in Monroe County, NY was dead when I last visited several years ago, and hasn't come back from what I gather. I remember when it was the newest, fanciest place to go in the early 90s. Then all of the other area malls were similarly updated, so shoppers went there instead (they are larger). Another oft-cited factor is the introduction of bus service, which connected the mall to an "urban demographic" that "some shoppers" found "objectionable".

Then there's Midtown Plaza, arguably the original dead mall. It's finally gone now, to be remade along the lines of VA Beach Town Center from what I can tell.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jemacedo9 on January 14, 2012, 06:51:29 PM
Medley Center has two anchor stores at either end (Sears and Macy's), and NOTHING in the actual mall...and there's no access to the mall at all.  There is this grand plan to create a mixed-use development, but the developed has defaulted on some of the payments-in-lieu-of-taxes. Though the developer claims he is still going forward, I'm skeptical.

Midtown Plaza is definitely no more...a literal hole in the ground.  I've watched the demolition from my cube over the past couple of years.  There too, a mixed-use development is supposed to be built, including some new streets to fill in the city grid. 
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on January 14, 2012, 07:09:23 PM
Osceola Square Mall in Kissimmee, FL is not what it used to be.  It had three anchor stores back in the early 90s.  It was Ross, Wal Mart and Uptons.  Ross is the only store still in the complex that is doing a great business, while Wal Mart moved into a Supercenter up the street back in 96 and since a regional store named Bealls took it over with less floor space than Wal Mart.  Uptons had went out of business and had been taken over numerous times since. Currrently the third anchor store is Burlington Brands.

The food court, last I was in there, only had one snack bar open when it had over ten originally.  Many vacant stores and a closed bus terminal are now there.  The local bus company Lynx moved there terminal to the street on Armstrong Drive and the area what once was a booming tourist area turned semi ghetto around this mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ctsignguy on January 20, 2012, 07:30:34 PM
Maybe the Central Ohio crew can back me on a few of these....

1 Salem Mall (Trotwood)  One of the first malls in Ohio back in the 1960s, i remember it for the variety of stores...the usual tenant stores like Sears and Rikes, plus a grocery store (Liberal)....They added a full wing in the 80s when the grocery store moved out...then the demographics changed in the early 90s as local neighborhood gangs started to cluster there and drove away many of the customers to other malls that were seen as safer (Dayton Mall)...by the late 90s, the place was barely hanging on.....the old Rikes was closed down and replaced by a Home Depot....which still stands, but the rest of the mall came down after i moved to Columbus

2. Upper Valley mall (Springfield)  This was a 1970s mall that has managed somehow to hang on given the fact that the area is a bit of a distance from Springfield proper, and the local economy has been in the toidy for decades.  Last time i was there, it was hardly worth the side trip...

3. Westland Mall (Columbus)  Still standing off I-270 but well over 75% vacant now.  Many stores left because a new and safer mall opened less than 10 miles away on Tuttle Creek.  A very spooky place to wander into now given its proximity to a high crime area (I lived in that area for 7 years, so i am allowed to say it!).  Most people go there because the BMV License Bureau is still there...but i remember back in the 1970s and early 80s, it was a hopping place to be

4. Northland Mall (defunct)  Torn down a few years ago, this mall was killed by its bad location, plus the opening of Polaris a few miles north, and Easton a few miles east.  Being near a high crime area didnt help matters much either

5. Eastland Mall.    This one is still hanging on even though it is approaching 50% vacant, and it has no easy access off I-70 and none at all off I-270 which passes right next to it.  I go there a few times, and it seems pleasant enough...they do their best to control loitering

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 20, 2012, 09:57:38 PM
Quote from: ctsignguy on January 20, 2012, 07:30:34 PM
Maybe the Central Ohio crew can back me on a few of these....

1 Salem Mall (Trotwood)  One of the first malls in Ohio back in the 1960s, i remember it for the variety of stores...the usual tenant stores like Sears and Rikes, plus a grocery store (Liberal)....They added a full wing in the 80s when the grocery store moved out...then the demographics changed in the early 90s as local neighborhood gangs started to cluster there and drove away many of the customers to other malls that were seen as safer (Dayton Mall)...by the late 90s, the place was barely hanging on.....the old Rikes was closed down and replaced by a Home Depot....which still stands, but the rest of the mall came down after i moved to Columbus

2. Upper Valley mall (Springfield)  This was a 1970s mall that has managed somehow to hang on given the fact that the area is a bit of a distance from Springfield proper, and the local economy has been in the toidy for decades.  Last time i was there, it was hardly worth the side trip...

3. Westland Mall (Columbus)  Still standing off I-270 but well over 75% vacant now.  Many stores left because a new and safer mall opened less than 10 miles away on Tuttle Creek.  A very spooky place to wander into now given its proximity to a high crime area (I lived in that area for 7 years, so i am allowed to say it!).  Most people go there because the BMV License Bureau is still there...but i remember back in the 1970s and early 80s, it was a hopping place to be

4. Northland Mall (defunct)  Torn down a few years ago, this mall was killed by its bad location, plus the opening of Polaris a few miles north, and Easton a few miles east.  Being near a high crime area didnt help matters much either

5. Eastland Mall.    This one is still hanging on even though it is approaching 50% vacant, and it has no easy access off I-70 and none at all off I-270 which passes right next to it.  I go there a few times, and it seems pleasant enough...they do their best to control loitering


Demographics have alot to do with the rise and fall of the Columbus area malls you mentioned. When Northland, Eastland, and Westland malls were opened in the mid to late 60s, those locations were literally out on edge of civilization and were cast as the alternative to shopping in downtown C-bus (and the inner suburbs - Bexley, Upper Arlington).
By the 1980s, folks had moved to cities connected by I-270 (which wouldn't completed till 1976). So the neighborhoods that grew up around those malls were just starting to degrade.
In the mid 90s new malls at Tuttle (Dublin), Easton (Westerville/Gahanna), and Polaris (Delaware County) changed the shopping habits of Central Ohio. Westland and Northland suffered the greatest, while Eastland holds due to the lack of viable competition in southeast Columbus/Franklin County.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on January 20, 2012, 10:07:52 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 14, 2012, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 09, 2011, 12:52:46 AM
Near Richmond the old Cloverleaf Mall has been closed for years now.

Something was supposed to be done to the property but I have not heard much about it lately.

According to a now-dead link on Deadmalls (http://deadmalls.com/malls/cloverleaf_mall.html) a church tried to buy it in 2005. More recently I'd heard it was supposed to become a housing development. It was demolished (http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-cloverleaf-mall-demolition-20111025,0,3911624.story) late last year.

Cloverleaf hasn't been fully demolished yet, apparently some deal regarding use of the land has stalled, and so the pace of the demolition has slowed.

Another notable dead mall in the area was Azalea Mall, Richmond's first enclosed shopping mall. It flourished from the mid-1960s through the early 1980s, but was killed by newer malls further away from the city as well as increasing crime in the area. The mall was completely demolished and razed in the mid 1990s. The only surviving remnants are the Azalea Mall Garden Center, which is run by the former manager of the Woolworth's garden center, and the old sign at the entrance of the mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Beltway on January 20, 2012, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on January 20, 2012, 10:07:52 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 14, 2012, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 09, 2011, 12:52:46 AM
Near Richmond the old Cloverleaf Mall has been closed for years now.

Something was supposed to be done to the property but I have not heard much about it lately.

According to a now-dead link on Deadmalls (http://deadmalls.com/malls/cloverleaf_mall.html) a church tried to buy it in 2005. More recently I'd heard it was supposed to become a housing development. It was demolished (http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-cloverleaf-mall-demolition-20111025,0,3911624.story) late last year.
Cloverleaf hasn't been fully demolished yet, apparently some deal regarding use of the land has stalled, and so the pace of the demolition has slowed.

It's less than 50% demolished today, there is a tremendous amount of work to dismantle those steel-framed buildings, and to remove and recycle acres of asphalt parking lots.

Here's what is planned --

Revitalization Office - Cloverleaf Mall Project
http://www.chesterfield.gov/content.aspx?id=2772
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on January 20, 2012, 11:03:55 PM
Interesting. I'd read that a Kroger was going there, but nothing else. Next time I'm up that way I'll take some more pictures of the demolition. When I was there in 2010 the sides of the mall were fenced off and being used by the Richmond police department. I'm sure it's at least that restricted now, but the pictures I took weren't very good. I also want to check out the old Best Products store across Midlothian from it.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Desert Man on January 20, 2012, 11:26:21 PM
Malls bare the same fate to disappear in the next decade or so, a victim of the everchanging economy and were replaced by wal-marts or other big-box retail chains and dollar stores are the rage due to our terrible "great recession" changed many of our buying habits.

Wal-Marts are very common in the Southeast, Midwest and South Central states with Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma (where my mother's side of the family lives in Tulsa) and Texas definitely is the original market base for Sam Walton's original chain of 5-and-dime stores 50 years ago. Home Depot drove out most of the home improvement store business except Lowe's still survives.

Kroger is based in Ohio and covers the entire eastern states, esp. in the Ohio River valley, Great Lakes states and the Deep South...a national chain to surpassed Safeway stores inc. based in San Francisco, when Kroger acquired Ralph's in L.A. area of Southern Cal. (I'm currently an employee for them while I'm a grocery store clerk) and Ralph's is comparably an upscale suburban supermarket chain.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on January 21, 2012, 10:19:47 AM
In the Orlando area malls are becoming outdoor promenades.  The famous Beltz Factory Outlet Mall at the end of International Drive was turned into the Prime Outlet Mall.  What was once two indoor facilities was demolished to make a new giant outdoor complex.

In Kissimmee a plaza called The Loop was built along the new Osceola Parkway that replaced US 192 corridor and is responsible for Kissimmee going downhill along what was once a well known area for people to lodge when visiting the Orlando area Theme Parks.  The Loop is a very popular place for locals to shop and has most of the big chain stores within it like JC Penney, Kohls, Bealls, and Sports Authority.  Plus it has a stadium type of seating movie theaters that gives locals a place to view new movies.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: D-Dey65 on January 21, 2012, 10:54:11 AM
When I first came to Florida, I used to see faded signs for the former Bayonet Point Mall on US 19 in Bayonet Point, that's now entirley a Wal-Mart.  The Crystal River Mall, on the northwest edge of Crystal River looks like it's on it's last legs.


From what I read on Wikipedia, Nanuet Mall is either dead, or practically dead.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on January 21, 2012, 11:30:14 AM
I wonder if Staten Island Mall is dead.  It never had all of its units rented out back in the 70s, so I would imagine that it never picked up since unless the Clinton era had its hayday.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on January 21, 2012, 12:05:20 PM
I don't have any article links handy, but the former Port Plaza Mall, later Washington Commons, a huge 1970s-era two-level mall in downtown Green Bay, WI is about to begin demolition, the city council approved the contract at their most recent meeting.  Plans are to restore most of the street grid and sell the land off for redevelopment.  There are interested parties with decent proposals.

See:
http://binged.it/ydxNhg

This might be an interesting stop for a potential NE Wisconsin meet.

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: PAHighways on January 21, 2012, 01:04:05 PM
Quote from: ctsignguy on January 20, 2012, 07:30:34 PM5. Eastland Mall.

Must be something with the name, as Pittsburgh's Eastland Mall (http://www.tubecityonline.com/history/eastland.html) is very much dead.  It was going strong with stores such as Gimbels, JCPenny, and Sears at its height, but the end came in the mid-80s.  Not only was the steel industry collapsing, and being situated in the Mon Valley (the river was just behind it) really hurt as patronage dropped as people moved to find work, but Gimbles (who also owned the mall) went out of business.

It lingered as an indoor flea market until the mid-00s when it was entirely demolished (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=McKeesport,+PA&ll=40.378181,-79.832239&spn=0.009121,0.02341&hnear=McKeesport,+Allegheny,+Pennsylvania&t=h&z=16&vpsrc=6).  Rumors of redeveloping the land have been talked about since, but with it located well off US 30, it isn't a prime retail location.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on January 21, 2012, 04:46:45 PM
Back in the 80s Indoor Flea Markets ruled!  All the ones that were popular in Northern New Jersey (Union Marketplace, Watchung Market, and US 1 Flea Market) have perished back in the 90s.   I guess the phase is over.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on February 04, 2012, 03:01:27 AM
I have a take from another angle:  Was at Allegheny Center in Pittsburgh opening week, same with Century 3, in later years was a regular at both Coliseum and Newmarket Fair in Newport news/Hampton in their heyday.  Was a regular at Allegheny Center for allmost 15 years.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on February 04, 2012, 03:08:26 AM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on January 14, 2012, 06:51:29 PM
Medley Center has two anchor stores at either end (Sears and Macy's), and NOTHING in the actual mall...and there's no access to the mall at all.  There is this grand plan to create a mixed-use development, but the developed has defaulted on some of the payments-in-lieu-of-taxes. Though the developer claims he is still going forward, I'm skeptical.

Midtown Plaza is definitely no more...a literal hole in the ground.  I've watched the demolition from my cube over the past couple of years.  There too, a mixed-use development is supposed to be built, including some new streets to fill in the city grid. 

This brings back memories that make me sad.  From 1985-88 I dated a wonderful lady who live near University and Prince.  For at least 2 Chrisrtmas' we would forego the big mall down at Jefferson and Henrietta and would walk Main Street, shopping at the main Sibley's and Midtown, downtown Rochester still seems to at least be vibrant on Main Street at that point.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: msubulldog on February 09, 2012, 11:48:36 PM
Windsor Park Mall in San Antonio may fall into this category.  :banghead: :verymad:
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: cpzilliacus on February 11, 2012, 02:55:35 PM
No mention in this thread of Landover Mall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landover_Mall) in Prince George's County, Maryland.  It's located next to the Capital Beltway (I-95/I-495) at Md. 202 (Exit 17). 

It was an enclosed mall from the start in the early 1970's, and did well for some years, with Sears, Hecht's and two other anchors, but started to go downhill in the 1980's, as crime worsened in blocks near the mall, which were dominated by garden apartments.

Now the entire mall has been razed, except for the Sears store, which remains open, is rumored to be moving south to a new location at the Ritchie-Marlboro Road (Exit 13) interchange.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hobsini2 on February 17, 2012, 11:38:22 PM
The long closed Dixie Square Mall in Harvey IL finally got the wrecking ball this week even though the mall closed back in 1978.
The significance of this mall? Anyone?

It was where the famous "mall-chase" scene in "The Blues Brothers" took place. It was filmed in 1979 after the mall closed.

Apparantly, the city of Harvey has had a difficult time getting a wrecking crew in so the land can be redeveloped.

It is still shown on Google Maps in Satellite view but not sure for how much longer.  It's on the southeast corner of Dixie Hwy and 151st St.

Here is a map of the mall itself.

http://deadmalls.com/malls/dixie_square_mall/dixie_square_dir_inside.jpg
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on February 18, 2012, 10:15:34 AM
The Plaza Rock Forest on PQ-112 in Sherbrooke who had once a Provigo supermarket and Woolco got the wrecking ball visit this week. http://www.cyberpresse.ca/la-tribune/sherbrooke/201202/17/01-4497106-les-terrasses-rock-forest-rongees-par-larriere-video.php
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: texaskdog on February 18, 2012, 11:14:44 AM
Highland Mall in Austin.  I work a block from it, last time I was in there it was about 1/3 full and that was with all the kiosk stores moving into full spaces.  The food court was about half full.  I haven't been in there in a year and a half and I know 2 more anchors are gone.  For those not in Austin, this was the mall Beavis & Butthead went to.  :)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on February 18, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
There was some discussion on one of the Milwaukee radio stations a few days ago about the meteoric fall of the Drown Deer Rd commercial Big Boxâ„¢ strip area around the former Northridge Mall on the City of Milwaukee's far north side and the city government's apparent total disinterest in the situation there.  Even the Walmart- at 76th/Brown Deer is closing.  It's like the whole area is emptying out.

Amazing.

:-o

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on February 20, 2012, 12:04:48 AM
I was out at Metrocenter Mall earlier today and I didn't realize how dead-looking that place is. There are very few stores open on the bottom floor. To make matters worse, the only Sears department store in the area is closing soon. Burlington Coat Factory is the only anchor there. The city of Jackson is still expected to move some offices there, so hopefully, it won't go totally down.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OCGuy81 on February 22, 2012, 10:13:11 AM
QuoteIn the Orlando area malls are becoming outdoor promenades.

Southern California seems to like these as well.  The Anaheim Garden Walk opened a few years back and is an outdoor promenade.  Restaurants, higher end retailers.  I think this is going to be the new normal of retail.  Instead of big box stores, and horrific A/C bills, outdoor promenades with smaller stores.

I also see big box stores in general heading into decline.  I'm starting to see more and more Best Buy Express kiosks and even Best Buy "vending machines".  A sign of things to come?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on March 04, 2012, 03:23:14 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 18, 2012, 12:52:26 PM
There was some discussion on one of the Milwaukee radio stations a few days ago about the meteoric fall of the Drown Deer Rd commercial Big Boxâ„¢ strip area around the former Northridge Mall on the City of Milwaukee's far north side and the city government's apparent total disinterest in the situation there.  Even the Walmart- at 76th/Brown Deer is closing.  It's like the whole area is emptying out.

Amazing.

:-o

Mike
I heard the same thing too.  I remember going down to Northridge quite often as a kid.  I loved having two large toy stores so close (Children's Palace and Toys 'R Us).  I still remember when Lego had their traveling shows, which made a stop at Northridge (will never forget the life-sized Lego Liberty Bell).

Crime (no perception, actual observation) has not been kind to that stretch of road.  I still remember the thriving upscale car dealerships coming in from the north (around 91st St?).  I remember stopping at the Dunkin Doughnuts that used to be on that corner.  Lowes left, Walmart's leaving (but I've heard that's partially because they can't expand that location for full grocery), Circuit City went out of business, Best Buy moved further out to the 'burbs, Stein's Garden Center pulled out, and there's also rumors that Target may not be too far down the line from leaving as well.  I'm surprised American TV is still there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on March 04, 2012, 04:18:42 AM
Some images of the in-progress demolition of the former Port Plaza Mall in downtown Green Bay, WI have been posted:

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/green-bay-mayor-tours-downtown-port-plaza-mall-demolition
http://www.wbay.com/story/17067406/green-bay-recycles-washington-commons-mall
and
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120303/GPG0101/203030600/Leaders-get-last-look-former-downtown-Green-Bay-mall?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Enjoy!

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on March 04, 2012, 04:49:01 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 04, 2012, 04:18:42 AM
Some images of the in-progress demolition of the former Port Plaza Mall in downtown Green Bay, WI have been posted:

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/green-bay-mayor-tours-downtown-port-plaza-mall-demolition
http://www.wbay.com/story/17067406/green-bay-recycles-washington-commons-mall
and
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120303/GPG0101/203030600/Leaders-get-last-look-former-downtown-Green-Bay-mall?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Enjoy!

Mike
Does that mall have/did it have a fancy "tower" clock & bell inside of it?  Or am I remembering some other mall in the Fox Cities?  If so, is it being salvaged?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US71 on March 04, 2012, 08:49:47 AM
Springfield, MO had North Town Mall, but it was slowly dying, especially after Herr's went bankrupt and closed. At the end, about the only store left was Wal-Mart which has now replaced NorthTown with a large Supercenter.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 1995hoo on March 04, 2012, 09:53:19 AM
Landmark Mall in Alexandria, VA, isn't yet dead but it's quickly dying, has been for some time. It was originally an outdoor promenade-style mall with two anchors (Sears and Hecht's). Like at the late Landover Mall mentioned up the thread by cpzilliacus, the department stores actually owned their buildings instead of leasing them from the mall. At some point in the early 1980s it was rebuilt into an indoor mall and expanded and spiffed up, though it was never a huge smashing success. Now they're planning to raze it (except, again, for Sears and perhaps Macy's, which bought Hecht's around 2005 or so) and convert it back to an outdoor promenade-style like it used to be.

My gut tells me it'll never be a great success. Not a pedestrian-friendly location despite lots of apartments and condos nearby, and most people who drive will just go to any of the other much nicer (and easier-to-access) malls throughout the area. Landmark's demographics are off-putting to many retailers, too. My brother worked loss prevention at Sears some years back and he said it's considered an "inner-city" mall due to the demographics and the major shoplifting problem.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: F350 on March 04, 2012, 11:40:41 AM
Lakeforest Mall in Gaithersburg, Maryland was put up on the block a few days ago. While the mall is nearly fully occupied, most people refuse to go near the mall. This is due to the transit center in front of it. Criminal activity has been growing without action in sight. It's the next Landover Mall.

White Flint Mall in nearby Rockville is being slicked for redevelopment as well.

As for malls on the whole, the suburban mall concept is obsolete today.

More people are turning anti-social and shop online these days. Or don't shop at all, due to the recession. Younger professionals also don't gravitate to malls anymore.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on March 04, 2012, 12:14:38 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 17, 2012, 11:38:22 PM
The long closed Dixie Square Mall in Harvey IL finally got the wrecking ball this week even though the mall closed back in 1978.
The significance of this mall? Anyone?

It was where the famous "mall-chase" scene in "The Blues Brothers" took place. It was filmed in 1979 after the mall closed.

Apparantly, the city of Harvey has had a difficult time getting a wrecking crew in so the land can be redeveloped.

It is still shown on Google Maps in Satellite view but not sure for how much longer.  It's on the southeast corner of Dixie Hwy and 151st St.

Here is a map of the mall itself.

http://deadmalls.com/malls/dixie_square_mall/dixie_square_dir_inside.jpg


They haven't had problems getting them in. They've had problems getting the job finished.

Second, only the Block D and TurnStyle portions got the wrecking ball then. Don't quote me on work now.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on March 04, 2012, 01:21:23 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on March 04, 2012, 04:49:01 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 04, 2012, 04:18:42 AM
Some images of the in-progress demolition of the former Port Plaza Mall in downtown Green Bay, WI have been posted:

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/green-bay-mayor-tours-downtown-port-plaza-mall-demolition
http://www.wbay.com/story/17067406/green-bay-recycles-washington-commons-mall
and
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20120303/GPG0101/203030600/Leaders-get-last-look-former-downtown-Green-Bay-mall?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Enjoy!

Mike

Does that mall have/did it have a fancy "tower" clock & bell inside of it?  Or am I remembering some other mall in the Fox Cities?  If so, is it being salvaged?

It did, but the clock was returned to its old home in a small town in Mississippi(?) not long after the mall closed in 2003.  I forget the name of the place offhand, but you should be able to search it out.

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on March 04, 2012, 03:18:51 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 04, 2012, 01:21:23 PM
It did, but the clock was returned to its old home in a small town in Mississippi(?) not long after the mall closed in 2003.  I forget the name of the place offhand, but you should be able to search it out.
Well, at least it was saved.  I assume the bell went with the clock too?  Sucks it's not in Green Bay any longer, as that was my favorite part of that mall as a kid.  Never knew it wasn't original to Green Bay.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 09, 2012, 09:35:37 AM
Quote from: F350 on March 04, 2012, 11:40:41 AM
Lakeforest Mall in Gaithersburg, Maryland was put up on the block a few days ago. While the mall is nearly fully occupied, most people refuse to go near the mall. This is due to the transit center in front of it. Criminal activity has been growing without action in sight. It's the next Landover Mall.

350, it is heresy in Montgomery County to question any transit center or any policy that might possibly lead to anyone taking mass transit.  No matter how much collateral damage it does.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: cpzilliacus on March 09, 2012, 09:39:23 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2012, 09:53:19 AM
Landmark Mall in Alexandria, VA, isn't yet dead but it's quickly dying, has been for some time. It was originally an outdoor promenade-style mall with two anchors (Sears and Hecht's). Like at the late Landover Mall mentioned up the thread by cpzilliacus, the department stores actually owned their buildings instead of leasing them from the mall. At some point in the early 1980s it was rebuilt into an indoor mall and expanded and spiffed up, though it was never a huge smashing success. Now they're planning to raze it (except, again, for Sears and perhaps Macy's, which bought Hecht's around 2005 or so) and convert it back to an outdoor promenade-style like it used to be.

Way back in the 1970's, it was a major bus stop for the Shirley Express buses running up and down Shirley Highway (I-395 today) (especially in the off-peak hours).  That brought a lot of customers to the mall, but the powers that be did not like Shirley Express, and it withered away over time.

QuoteMy gut tells me it'll never be a great success. Not a pedestrian-friendly location despite lots of apartments and condos nearby, and most people who drive will just go to any of the other much nicer (and easier-to-access) malls throughout the area. Landmark's demographics are off-putting to many retailers, too. My brother worked loss prevention at Sears some years back and he said it's considered an "inner-city" mall due to the demographics and the major shoplifting problem.

Agreed.

Just because those apartments and condo complexes off of Va. 236 (Duke Street) look nice to advocates of Smart Growth does not mean that Landmark Mall is going to be a big success story.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Jordanah1 on March 09, 2012, 01:33:42 PM
the downtown oshkosh mall was the state of the art parking on top downtown mall built in the 1960s, economic center of the valley untill the gigantic Fox River mall opened in grand chute in the (1990s?)...the oshkosh downtown mall didnt have a chance, and now is mostly office space...
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on March 09, 2012, 01:48:54 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on March 09, 2012, 01:33:42 PM
the downtown oshkosh mall was the state of the art parking on top downtown mall built in the 1960s, economic center of the valley untill the gigantic Fox River mall opened in grand chute in the (1990s?)...the oshkosh downtown mall didnt have a chance, and now is mostly office space...
Actually, the Fox River Mall opened in 1984.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 1995hoo on March 09, 2012, 02:00:27 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 09, 2012, 09:39:23 AM
QuoteMy gut tells me it'll never be a great success. Not a pedestrian-friendly location despite lots of apartments and condos nearby, and most people who drive will just go to any of the other much nicer (and easier-to-access) malls throughout the area. Landmark's demographics are off-putting to many retailers, too. My brother worked loss prevention at Sears some years back and he said it's considered an "inner-city" mall due to the demographics and the major shoplifting problem.

Agreed.

Just because those apartments and condo complexes off of Va. 236 (Duke Street) look nice to advocates of Smart Growth does not mean that Landmark Mall is going to be a big success story.

The other interesting dynamic affecting Landmark is the future of Springfield Mall. WTOP reported yesterday that the long-planned renovation (perhaps not strong enough a word) is set to begin this summer with all stores other than the three remaining anchors (Macy's, Target, and JC Penney) closing. I believe I read a year or two ago that the plans involve demolishing the existing mall and turning it into more of a "town center" style development, though at least initially without office space. It will never match Reston Town Center, that's for sure. Anyway, I'm sure the redevelopment of Springfield Mall will have at least some effect on the success or failure of the Landmark renovations.

I go to the Sears at Landmark from time to time. It's still a good place to buy appliances, vacuum parts, etc., and I've purchased tires from their auto center located across the car park. I have the road hazard protection, so I've gone back there with a flat. I'd rather go to Sears than to the Wal-Mart here in Kingstowne, as Wal-Mart tends to be a zoo. Aside from the Sears, though, I can't really see much reason ever to go to Landmark Mall these days. My wife sometimes goes to their Macy's because she prefers that one to Springfield Mall. I was going to go to the Ritz Camera there to get passport photos so I can renew, but apparently the store closed.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Jordanah1 on March 09, 2012, 05:53:22 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on March 09, 2012, 01:48:54 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on March 09, 2012, 01:33:42 PM
the downtown oshkosh mall was the state of the art parking on top downtown mall built in the 1960s, economic center of the valley untill the gigantic Fox River mall opened in grand chute in the (1990s?)...the oshkosh downtown mall didnt have a chance, and now is mostly office space...
Actually, the Fox River Mall opened in 1984.
thanks for the clarification, thats why i (?) the 1990s...i was to lazy to look it up.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hobsini2 on March 09, 2012, 08:35:11 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on March 09, 2012, 01:33:42 PM
the downtown oshkosh mall was the state of the art parking on top downtown mall built in the 1960s, economic center of the valley untill the gigantic Fox River mall opened in grand chute in the (1990s?)...the oshkosh downtown mall didnt have a chance, and now is mostly office space...
The mall in Downtown Oshkosh was called Park Plaza Mall. I still have vivid memories of coming up the ramp off Jackson to get into the parking garage and the fountains that lined the main corridors in the mall.
http://www.labelscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/park-plaza-mall-02.jpg
http://www.labelscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/park-plaza-mall-04.jpg
http://www.labelscar.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/park-plaza-mall-10.jpg

These last 2 pics are from inside the mall. Unfortunately, the fountains are gone.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on March 10, 2012, 02:10:44 PM
I can now confirm that Cloverleaf Mall has been entirely demolished. I drove by the site today and it's just a bunch of dirt. A sign for the Kroger that's slated to replace it has been installed, saying it'll be in place later this year. Comically, the original "Thru Traffic Prohibited" sign is still present.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Beltway on March 10, 2012, 07:38:18 PM
Quote from: Takumi on March 10, 2012, 02:10:44 PM
I can now confirm that Cloverleaf Mall has been entirely demolished. I drove by the site today and it's just a bunch of dirt. A sign for the Kroger that's slated to replace it has been installed, saying it'll be in place later this year. Comically, the original "Thru Traffic Prohibited" sign is still present.

I was about to post about that ... yes indeed the demolition was completed last week, at least the demolition of the buildings.  Some of the foundations still remain to be demolished.

The property looks entirely different seeing the buildings gone.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on March 10, 2012, 08:06:42 PM
The property really is more spacious than it looked before with the buildings there, but I didn't remember the old Thalheimers in the back until recently. The exit road has been ripped up (but the rocks are still there), so unless you have a serious off-road vehicle, you have to turn around on the entrance road to leave. There are also a couple "do not enter" postings so I didn't stay long.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on March 10, 2012, 08:16:37 PM
Another thing to mention is the fact that retail drug store chains are moving out of indoor and outdoor strip malls and going into stand alone buildings.  In Florida, Walgreens and CVS (the two dominate chains in Orlando) have opened up newly built buildings at major intersections.  If one puts one up on one corner, then the other will put up one on the other corner.

24 Hour drug stores are on the way out as the Walgreens in Kissimmee, FL is the only one left in the southern Orlando area.  CVS cut back on their stores where they had a few open all night, but Wal Mart in most of Florida is open 24/7 changed that.  Even Krystal Hamburgers who were 24/7 for years now closes at night.

Colonial Drive in the Pine Hills area was loaded with malls years ago, but since Pine Hills became the crime capital of Orlando (hence a knickname given by us locals as Crime Hills) they faded out over the decades there.  Car dealers are moving away from West Colonial Drive to other parts of Orlando.  

The fade is coming to an end.  Just like Blockbuster and East Coast Video was big in the 80s and 90s, now has ended due to internet replacing the need to use videos and dvds.  Malls came in the 60s, 70s, and 80s as being state of the art and the place to shop are now old and replaced.  I hate to admit it, but I shop at Wal Mart because you can not beat his prices!  I have no need to go to the malls because of this and you get everything under one roof.  Even groceries can be bought at all Wal Marts except in New Jersey where for some reason Wal Mart did not push for this here like the other states.  Obviously, NJ has some things that deter certain businesses from going in.  They managed to not get the self serve gasoline in their state when nationwide everyone wanted that to save money on gas back in the 70s when gas went over 30 cents a gallon.   How they managed that, I will never know.  Anyway, sorry to say but this may become relic soon.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on March 10, 2012, 08:53:04 PM
No, I don't think malls are going away, just poorly placed and poorly anchored ones.  Wal-Mart kind of sucks for any real sort of quality, and it is usually the bottom of the barrel around here, excluding K-Mart.  Their prices aren't all that good.  Meijer, Ultra Foods (Central Foods Coop), and Food4Less (Kroger) have better typical food prices with better quality, and even Dominick's (Safeway) can beat Wal-Mart's sales.  On the clothing end, JCPenney, Carson's, Target, and Kohl's have Wal-Mart beat for value with better quality for the dollar.  Wal-Mart's only really good for some electronics, some hard goods, and a few other odds and ends.  Wal-Mart kind of reminds me of K-Mart of the 1980s or Montgomery Ward of the 1990s.  When they crash, it's going to be hard.

As for malls, I say that they aren't going away as the established ones seem to be doing fairly well around here.  In fact, the local one is up over 95% occupancy.  Stores go out of their way to look for a space around the mall, or in the mall.

Sorry to see your 24 hour drug stores coming to an end in Kissimmee, FL, but that must be a local thing down there.  CVS hasn't opened too many around Chicago, but Walgreen's basically owns the 24 hour market.  As for video, Blockbuster is a victim of its own excesses.  Too many small stores and silly pricing strategies.  Family Video around here is still going very strong.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on March 10, 2012, 09:18:24 PM
Well we still have Millenia Mall and Florida Mall doing quite well.  As far as quality goes, I have to pay cheap at times, but you are right as Publix supermarkets are the best for that along with customer service.  That is in Central Florida!  Areas do have to do with it is right as Osceola Square Mall used to be booming, but when the area around it declined, that is when the mall (along with the US 192 tourist area) went downhill in Kissimmee.

I was reffering to the fad of the video era, but that you mention it my uncle once told me that if a business went under it is because of bad management not do to the economy.  Best Buy is still strong, but Circuit City and Sound Advice went under.  I am sure it is because Best Buy knows how to run a business while the others did some things that cost them theirs.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on March 10, 2012, 09:19:49 PM
24 hour CVS's have increased here in the past year. My store didn't change, but one close to me did. Some of the Wal-Marts around here are 24 hours, but Chesterfield County supposedly has a cap on 24 hour businesses, so I don't know all of the ones that are and aren't. The video store market here has also decreased, but there are still a few Blockbusters and the like. The only independent ones I've seen in recent years are towards Suffolk, where an ex girlfriend of mine worked at one. I agree with Brandon's statement that not every mall is doomed; I think in several cases re-evaluating the demographics helps. Case in point: Southpark Mall. Over the years the customer base has changed with the expansion of Fort Lee and Petersburg Area Transit starting to go to the mall area, and for the most part the mall has kept up with it.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on March 10, 2012, 09:41:51 PM
I cannot wait for WaWa to open in Orlando.  The PA based convenience store is starting a new marketing area along I-4 just like along I-95 from Fredericksburg to I guess Philadelphia (I do not know at what point they stop going north).

I hear many from South Jersey say how good they are compared to 7 Eleven and cannot wait for the one near Sea World to open.  That is a great location as many will leave the park to avoid paying the high park prices and get a cheaper meal nearby.

I know this is one trend that will never cease and that is the convenience store thing.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on March 10, 2012, 10:31:15 PM
One oddity in San Diego that helps keepour malls going:  Walmart took over many of the Montgomery Wards anchors, and is now looking at many fromer Mervyn's sites.

The Walmart at Parkway Plaza kinda freaks me out.  The structure shakes too much for me, it is a 2 story Walmart, just like the one in the fromer Montgomery Wards at Grossmont Plaza
Title: More demolition images of the former Port Plaza Mall in downtown Green Bay, WI
Post by: mgk920 on March 16, 2012, 11:53:24 AM
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=U0&Dato=20120301&Kategori=GPG01&Lopenr=203010801

Enjoy!

:hyper:

Mike
Appleton, WI
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: KEVIN_224 on March 16, 2012, 10:34:39 PM
There once was the Worcester Common Outlets in downtown Worcester, MA, close to the DCU Center and the Amtrak/MBTA train and Greyhound/Peter Pan Bus terminal. Much of that building and an adjacent parking garage has since been torn down. The Auburn Mall sits fairly close to I-90 and I-290 in Auburn, MA, but never looks that busy when passing by it.

WestFarms Mall opened on the West Hartford/Farmington town line in 1974, hence its name. It doesn't have a food court, but yet still does very well, being very close to I-84 and the CT Route 9 expressway. It already sits on CT Route 71, which receives a ton of traffic. Red Robin, Wendy's and the Corbin's Corner shopping plazas are all walking distance from where the city busses let off.

Westfield Shoppingtown in Meriden is close to I-691 and is off of CT Route 71 (Chamberlain Highway), a good 7 miles or so to my south. It has a food court at least. It nearly doubled in size back in the 1990s, opening a wing which includes Best Buy, Old Navy and Dick's Sporting Goods. There was a Border's book store there. Oh well!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: NJRoadfan on March 17, 2012, 02:06:03 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 10, 2012, 09:41:51 PM
I cannot wait for WaWa to open in Orlando.  The PA based convenience store is starting a new marketing area along I-4 just like along I-95 from Fredericksburg to I guess Philadelphia (I do not know at what point they stop going north).

Wait.... what....WaWa... in Florida?! Something isn't right about that, they need to start building out in North Jersey again before going further south, the one in Parsippany isn't enough!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on March 19, 2012, 04:25:58 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 17, 2012, 02:06:03 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 10, 2012, 09:41:51 PM
I cannot wait for WaWa to open in Orlando.  The PA based convenience store is starting a new marketing area along I-4 just like along I-95 from Fredericksburg to I guess Philadelphia (I do not know at what point they stop going north).

Wait.... what....WaWa... in Florida?! Something isn't right about that, they need to start building out in North Jersey again before going further south, the one in Parsippany isn't enough!

Quick Chek is going to eat most of northern NJ Wawas alive. Same for Quick Cheks going southbound. That's why they are building north into NY rather than south.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Alps on March 19, 2012, 07:46:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on March 19, 2012, 04:25:58 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 17, 2012, 02:06:03 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on March 10, 2012, 09:41:51 PM
I cannot wait for WaWa to open in Orlando.  The PA based convenience store is starting a new marketing area along I-4 just like along I-95 from Fredericksburg to I guess Philadelphia (I do not know at what point they stop going north).

Wait.... what....WaWa... in Florida?! Something isn't right about that, they need to start building out in North Jersey again before going further south, the one in Parsippany isn't enough!

Quick Chek is going to eat most of northern NJ Wawas alive. Same for Quick Cheks going southbound. That's why they are building north into NY rather than south.
Quick Chek doesn't have gas. The Wawa in question is around the cheapest gas to be found. They can make it work.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on March 21, 2012, 05:38:18 AM
Quick Chek has gas. All the new Upstate NY ones have ones. There's one on NJ 35 right at the NJ 440 ramp. There are some scattered in places, but I can't remember at this moment.

(Hell there is a proposal for one on 23 in Butler.)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Alps on March 23, 2012, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on March 21, 2012, 05:38:18 AM
Quick Chek has gas. All the new Upstate NY ones have ones. There's one on NJ 35 right at the NJ 440 ramp. There are some scattered in places, but I can't remember at this moment.

(Hell there is a proposal for one on 23 in Butler.)
OK, some QC's have gas. Just like some 7-11's do. I still think Wawa can make it. Their subs are higher quality.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on April 01, 2012, 10:02:57 AM
All I know from South Jersians that Wawa's food is made fresh to order and serve more hot meals.  Almost anyone who flies in and out of ACY stops at the Wawa at the circle before the terminals.  Being flights now rarely serve peanuts anymore, get a food item here and take it aboard providing you do not have big bottles for TSA to let you through.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: texaskdog on April 03, 2012, 01:44:55 PM
I used to live by a strip mall that was built, and never actually opened.  Now a freeway runs by where it used to be.  If only they were patient.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: CentralCAroadgeek on April 03, 2012, 04:33:35 PM
I do know of one dead mall.

It's the Sunrise Mall in Corpus Christi, TX. Directly across the better, newly-renovated La Palmera Mall. It's an example of how bad it is to put two malls right across from each other. Sunrise apparently only has a Sears and a Dollar Theater.

When going down S.P.I.D. last summer, I noticed just in the exterior of Sunrise how neglected it is. Meanwhile, La Palmera was just recently renovated.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on April 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
^^ Ever notice that many of these dead malls have something in common?  I'll give a hint, it starts with an "M" and ends in "Wards".
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: agentsteel53 on April 03, 2012, 09:03:33 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
^^ Ever notice that many of these dead malls have something in common?  I'll give a hint, it starts with an "M" and ends in "Wards".

... Walmartds?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: cpzilliacus on April 04, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
^^ Ever notice that many of these dead malls have something in common?  I'll give a hint, it starts with an "M" and ends in "Wards".

Montgomery Wards?

Though the Westfield Shoppingtown Wheaton in Maryland (f/k/a Wheaton Plaza) successfully survived the shut-down of a Wards store.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: agentsteel53 on April 04, 2012, 01:04:55 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 04, 2012, 12:37:50 PM

Montgomery Wards?


I had no idea that chain was still in existence.  I don't recall seeing one since the 80s!  then again, I do my best to pay as little attention as possible to large box stores.

I had thought that it was Walmart which was displacing other box stores.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on April 04, 2012, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 04, 2012, 01:04:55 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 04, 2012, 12:37:50 PM

Montgomery Wards?


I had no idea that chain was still in existence.  I don't recall seeing one since the 80s!  then again, I do my best to pay as little attention as possible to large box stores.

I had thought that it was Walmart which was displacing other box stores.
Montgomery Wards is on online only now. They went out as a store chain a while ago.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on April 04, 2012, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 04, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
^^ Ever notice that many of these dead malls have something in common?  I'll give a hint, it starts with an "M" and ends in "Wards".

Montgomery Wards?

Though the Westfield Shoppingtown Wheaton in Maryland (f/k/a Wheaton Plaza) successfully survived the shut-down of a Wards store.
One in Green Bay, WI did as well (Bay Park Square?).  If I remember correctly, it was one of the last (the last?) 'Wards stores in Wisconsin.  I still remember going there a couple of times with my parents back in the early 1990's.  I also remember going to one in the Kalamazoo/Portage, MI area, but I don't remember if that one was tied to a mall or not.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on April 04, 2012, 08:28:33 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 04, 2012, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 04, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
^^ Ever notice that many of these dead malls have something in common?  I'll give a hint, it starts with an "M" and ends in "Wards".

Montgomery Wards?

Though the Westfield Shoppingtown Wheaton in Maryland (f/k/a Wheaton Plaza) successfully survived the shut-down of a Wards store.
One in Green Bay, WI did as well (Bay Park Square?).  If I remember correctly, it was one of the last (the last?) 'Wards stores in Wisconsin.  I still remember going there a couple of times with my parents back in the early 1990's.  I also remember going to one in the Kalamazoo/Portage, MI area, but I don't remember if that one was tied to a mall or not.

Maple Hill Mall.  It's dead.
I've noticed more malls with a Wards seem to have died (for the obvious reason that their anchor is gone) than have survived.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on April 04, 2012, 10:48:34 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 04, 2012, 08:28:33 PM
Maple Hill Mall.  It's dead.
I've noticed more malls with a Wards seem to have died (for the obvious reason that their anchor is gone) than have survived.

Not surprised it's dead, but apparently I was confusing Kalamazoo malls.  For some reason I thought it was at the mall off of Westnedge Ave...then again, I haven't been back to the Kalamazoo area in close to 10 years.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Michael on April 06, 2012, 03:46:12 PM
The Shops at Ithaca Mall (formerly Pyramid Mall Ithaca) has done quite well after having a Monkey Ward's (as my grandpa would call it, although I don't remember ever going into it) close.  The store was partially knocked down and replaced with Old Navy and AC Moore in 2002, along with a new building attached for a Target.  At the other end, a Borders, Dicks, and Best Buy were added.  The mall and immediate surrounding area have expanded rapidly in the past 10 years or so.

Some links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shops_at_Ithaca_Mall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shops_at_Ithaca_Mall)
http://deadmalls.com/malls/pyramid_mall.html (http://deadmalls.com/malls/pyramid_mall.html)
http://www.labelscar.com/new-york/pyramid-mall-and-triphammer-mall (http://www.labelscar.com/new-york/pyramid-mall-and-triphammer-mall)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US71 on April 08, 2012, 09:12:42 AM
I saw someone post on an e-group this week "Bannister Mall is gone! What happened?"  I guess they don't to that side of town very often.  :eyebrow:
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on April 08, 2012, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: Michael on April 06, 2012, 03:46:12 PM
...having a Monkey Ward's (as my grandpa would call it, although I don't remember ever going into it)

Ha!  I thought my dad was the only one that called it "Monkey" Wards.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US71 on April 08, 2012, 04:28:24 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 08, 2012, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: Michael on April 06, 2012, 03:46:12 PM
...having a Monkey Ward's (as my grandpa would call it, although I don't remember ever going into it)

Ha!  I thought my dad was the only one that called it "Monkey" Wards.

Lots of people called it "Monkey" Wards, myself included on occasion.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: rawmustard on April 10, 2012, 11:50:51 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 04, 2012, 10:48:34 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 04, 2012, 08:28:33 PM
Maple Hill Mall.  It's dead.
I've noticed more malls with a Wards seem to have died (for the obvious reason that their anchor is gone) than have survived.

Not surprised it's dead, but apparently I was confusing Kalamazoo malls.  For some reason I thought it was at the mall off of Westnedge Ave...then again, I haven't been back to the Kalamazoo area in close to 10 years.

You might have been thinking of Southland Mall, which (like Maple Hill and part of West Main Mall) has been redeveloped as an outdoor strip. The Crossroads is definitely the preeminent regional mall in the area.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hobsini2 on April 10, 2012, 06:41:05 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 04, 2012, 08:28:33 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 04, 2012, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 04, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
^^ Ever notice that many of these dead malls have something in common?  I'll give a hint, it starts with an "M" and ends in "Wards".

Montgomery Wards?

Though the Westfield Shoppingtown Wheaton in Maryland (f/k/a Wheaton Plaza) successfully survived the shut-down of a Wards store.
One in Green Bay, WI did as well (Bay Park Square?).  If I remember correctly, it was one of the last (the last?) 'Wards stores in Wisconsin.  I still remember going there a couple of times with my parents back in the early 1990's.  I also remember going to one in the Kalamazoo/Portage, MI area, but I don't remember if that one was tied to a mall or not.

Maple Hill Mall.  It's dead.
I've noticed more malls with a Wards seem to have died (for the obvious reason that their anchor is gone) than have survived.
Wards closing there store at Jefferson Square was the real death of JS Mall even though it had a couple stores try to hang on for a year or two. Interestingly, almost imediately after JS closed, Louis Joliet got a nice shot of being revitalized despite the 2 strip malls across the parking lot.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: bulkyorled on April 10, 2012, 06:50:58 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi44.tinypic.com%2Fsaxyl3.jpg&hash=d1bc9f1a83370e62f55fd48f6ff0a4eeb8ba80aa)

There's an extremely dead one in Panorama City, CA. This one has an Electric Avenue store attached. It was damaged in the 1994 Northridge quake and they left it alone ever since. I'm thinking they're actually planning on doing something with it soon though. There's a 10 story building maybe a block away that had been damaged in the same quake and abandoned but a few weeks ago they started going back inside and taking stuff in and out of there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on April 10, 2012, 08:29:58 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on April 10, 2012, 06:41:05 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 04, 2012, 08:28:33 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 04, 2012, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 04, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
^^ Ever notice that many of these dead malls have something in common?  I'll give a hint, it starts with an "M" and ends in "Wards".

Montgomery Wards?

Though the Westfield Shoppingtown Wheaton in Maryland (f/k/a Wheaton Plaza) successfully survived the shut-down of a Wards store.
One in Green Bay, WI did as well (Bay Park Square?).  If I remember correctly, it was one of the last (the last?) 'Wards stores in Wisconsin.  I still remember going there a couple of times with my parents back in the early 1990's.  I also remember going to one in the Kalamazoo/Portage, MI area, but I don't remember if that one was tied to a mall or not.

Maple Hill Mall.  It's dead.
I've noticed more malls with a Wards seem to have died (for the obvious reason that their anchor is gone) than have survived.
Wards closing there store at Jefferson Square was the real death of JS Mall even though it had a couple stores try to hang on for a year or two. Interestingly, almost imediately after JS closed, Louis Joliet got a nice shot of being revitalized despite the 2 strip malls across the parking lot.

Jeff Sq was dying though long before Wards closed.  It was dying slowly since Wieboldt's closed back in 1987.  The demise of Wards merely hastened the death of the mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on April 10, 2012, 09:54:35 PM
The West Oaks Mall in Ocoee, FL is dying.  Only 2/3 of the retail space is  currently leased and one of its main anchor stores, Sears, will be closing its doors at that location later this year.

Officials say, that the local law enforcement has been called 700 times in one month recently to handle shoplifting, robberies, etc.
It is located near Pine Hills, aka Crime Hills, where much happens there resulting in a shooting or two frequently.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on April 10, 2012, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on April 10, 2012, 11:50:51 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 04, 2012, 10:48:34 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 04, 2012, 08:28:33 PM
Maple Hill Mall.  It's dead.
I've noticed more malls with a Wards seem to have died (for the obvious reason that their anchor is gone) than have survived.

Not surprised it's dead, but apparently I was confusing Kalamazoo malls.  For some reason I thought it was at the mall off of Westnedge Ave...then again, I haven't been back to the Kalamazoo area in close to 10 years.

You might have been thinking of Southland Mall, which (like Maple Hill and part of West Main Mall) has been redeveloped as an outdoor strip. The Crossroads is definitely the preeminent regional mall in the area.

Looking at the map, I was definitely confusing Crossroads with whatever area mall had a 'Wards store.  I used to have family living within a nice walk of that mall, and I remember both walking to a mall from their house and going to a 'Wards store at some point in our visit.  As I was just a kid at the time (<12), apparently the memories blurred together somewhat.  I knew I was at both at some point, (also including a variety of Mejier stores).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: rawmustard on April 11, 2012, 10:04:17 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 10, 2012, 11:04:06 PM
Looking at the map, I was definitely confusing Crossroads with whatever area mall had a 'Wards store.  I used to have family living within a nice walk of that mall, and I remember both walking to a mall from their house and going to a 'Wards store at some point in our visit.  As I was just a kid at the time (<12), apparently the memories blurred together somewhat.  I knew I was at both at some point, (also including a variety of Mejier stores).

Maple Hill definitely had the Wards store on the east end, while a Meijer Square (Turn Style previous to that) anchored the west end until a regular Meijer store was built at West Main and 9th.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on November 11, 2012, 08:31:15 PM
Hickory Hollow Mall in Nashville to get new life (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20121111/BUSINESS02/311110026/Hickory-Hollow-Mall-get-new-life?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Big John on November 11, 2012, 09:01:16 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on April 04, 2012, 02:15:38 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 04, 2012, 12:37:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 03, 2012, 08:38:28 PM
^^ Ever notice that many of these dead malls have something in common?  I'll give a hint, it starts with an "M" and ends in "Wards".

Montgomery Wards?

Though the Westfield Shoppingtown Wheaton in Maryland (f/k/a Wheaton Plaza) successfully survived the shut-down of a Wards store.
One in Green Bay, WI did as well (Bay Park Square?).  If I remember correctly, it was one of the last (the last?) 'Wards stores in Wisconsin.  I still remember going there a couple of times with my parents back in the early 1990's.  I also remember going to one in the Kalamazoo/Portage, MI area, but I don't remember if that one was tied to a mall or not.

The MW store was there first as a stand-alone store, then they built Bay Park Square to adjoin it.  When the franchise went belly-up, they tore down the building, expanded the mall space and built a new Younkers.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 04, 2013, 01:47:03 PM
I spotted some pictures of the location of the former Bannister mall in Kansas City http://www.urbanophile.com/2013/06/04/suburban-blight-in-kansas-city-by-eric-mcafee/
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DeaconG on June 04, 2013, 08:30:35 PM
Miracle City Mall in Titusville finally went Tango Uniform as of the first of the year when the JC Penney store shut down.  Still planning that conversion to an outdoor 'lifestyle' center and offices for Parrish Medical but I don't know when that's supposed to take place.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: formulanone on June 04, 2013, 10:08:10 PM
Quote from: DeaconG on June 04, 2013, 08:30:35 PM
Still planning that conversion to an outdoor 'lifestyle' center...

"Lifestyle center" is probably the vaguest term in recent usage. I've never heard anyone actually say it, but I guess I also don't hang out with many real estate agents and zoners/planners. It sounds like the type of place which you can temporarily stop following sharia law, without any penalty.

Just another way to kick out the teenage riff-raff and mall rats, replacing them with smokers 2 feet from store entrances, adding more brand logos, and making parking more of a hassle. Increased use of foliage is a plus.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kphoger on June 04, 2013, 10:12:15 PM
Quote from: formulanone on June 04, 2013, 10:08:10 PM
"Lifestyle center" ... sounds like the type of place which you can temporarily stop following sharia law, without any penalty.

Ha!  That's not what came to my mind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swinging)!

I agree, it's a stupid term.  Can we not just call it a mall?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: The High Plains Traveler on June 04, 2013, 11:18:49 PM
My own most significant "dead mall" is Apache Plaza in St. Anthony MN (suburban Minneapolis). It was the second indoor mall in the country (1961), but for a time in the 1970s and 1980s was a major shopping area for the northern part of the Twin Cities. I moved into that area around 1981; in 1984, a tornado hit the mall. By the time I left the area in 2002, it had degraded to a couple of active stores and indoor walking space. Before I lived there, it did have a "Monkey Wards". It ultimately (2005) was demolished and became a "lifestyle center", with lots of outdoor walking space, condos and a WalMart near the pre-existing Cub Foods.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Road Hog on June 05, 2013, 09:41:18 AM
Nothing more depressing than walking through a once-thriving mall and it's deserted and half the stores are closed off, and you're just about the only customer there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kphoger on June 05, 2013, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 05, 2013, 09:41:18 AM
Nothing more depressing than

Dead babies.

/me ducks for cover.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on June 05, 2013, 10:50:53 AM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on June 04, 2013, 11:18:49 PM
My own most significant "dead mall" is Apache Plaza in St. Anthony MN (suburban Minneapolis). It was the second indoor mall in the country (1961), but for a time in the 1970s and 1980s was a major shopping area for the northern part of the Twin Cities. I moved into that area around 1981; in 1984, a tornado hit the mall. By the time I left the area in 2002, it had degraded to a couple of active stores and indoor walking space. Before I lived there, it did have a "Monkey Wards". It ultimately (2005) was demolished and became a "lifestyle center", with lots of outdoor walking space, condos and a WalMart near the pre-existing Cub Foods.

The first ever purpose-built mall in the USA (Valley Fair here in Appleton - opened 1954-08-11) was mostly demolished a few years ago and the only part of the mall that still stands and is operating is the movie theater that was added in about 1979, now showing 'second run' movies.  Part of its site has since been redeveloped with a new grocery store building.

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 11:11:42 AM
Quote from: kphoger on June 04, 2013, 10:12:15 PM
Quote from: formulanone on June 04, 2013, 10:08:10 PM
"Lifestyle center" ... sounds like the type of place which you can temporarily stop following sharia law, without any penalty.

I agree, it's a stupid term.  Can we not just call it a mall?

This kind of aggrandizing nomenclature always hits a nerve with me, as evidenced by this blog quote (my own):

QuoteWe'd had lunch that day in West Des Moines, at something called Jordan Creek Town Center. Despite its name, Jordan Creek is not in the center of anything and it most decidedly is not a town. It is a brand-new upscale shopping mall with a self-admitted (from its web site) "streetscape design"; across the man-made lake another part of the complex, called The Village, is a cluster of outbuildings having an "open-air lifestyle design." Of course, in real towns and villages, streetscapes come about organically as a continual result of commercial and human processes, and lifestyles develop naturally from the influence of the communal experience. The idea that a streetscape or a lifestyle can be artificially "designed" in the cornfields of Iowa is nothing but pompous corporate branding.

I then go on to rail against the naming pattern of "The Such-and-such at So-and-So" (at the time, an area of the mall's outparcel buildings was called "The Village at Jordan Creek"). This works if you're referring to "the place at Versailles" or "the mosque at Mecca", but I don't think either Jordan Creek or the villages located along it, if any, are quite well-known enough in their own right to be referred to in such a generalized way. Even a famous place like Boston isn't known as "the city at Massachusetts Bay"!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: wphiii on June 05, 2013, 11:21:04 AM
Surprised nobody has mentioned the Peabody Place Mall in Downtown Memphis. What a horrific experiment in urban planning that was, to destroy several square blocks of a Central Business District to put in an enclosed shopping mall. And it was designed to be completely unfriendly to pedestrians, with imposing walls, few windows offering interior views, and almost no street-level entrances (nearly all of the mall's entrances are via walkways from adjacent parking garages).

Not surprisingly, this mall was completely dead within a dozen years of its opening.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: agentsteel53 on June 05, 2013, 12:39:53 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 11:11:42 AM

I then go on to rail against the naming pattern of "The Such-and-such at So-and-So" (at the time, an area of the mall's outparcel buildings was called "The Village at Jordan Creek"). This works if you're referring to "the place at Versailles" or "the mosque at Mecca", but I don't think either Jordan Creek or the villages located along it, if any, are quite well-known enough in their own right to be referred to in such a generalized way. Even a famous place like Boston isn't known as "the city at Massachusetts Bay"!

don't forget "the Beer Lite Bowl, presented by AssCleaner, played on TurdFeathers Playing Surface at GargantuaBank Field at Reptilian Stadium Brought to you by Horseshit.com"
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 01:19:32 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 05, 2013, 12:39:53 PM
don't forget "the Beer Lite Bowl, presented by AssCleaner, played on TurdFeathers Playing Surface at GargantuaBank Field at Reptilian Stadium Brought to you by Horseshit.com"

...based on the novel "Push" by Sapphire.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kphoger on June 05, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 11:11:42 AM
rant

I think I love you.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jeffandnicole on June 05, 2013, 02:56:17 PM
The Echelon Mall in Voorhees, NJ is a mall in South Jersey that has gone at least partly bye-bye.  It had 3 anchor stores, then a 4th was built for Sears, which may have been one of the smallest full-service Sears stores ever.  The location sucked - it was basically hemmed in by single lane roads - and the general area has 3 other malls, with another half-dozen within about an hour's drive.  I haven't been up there in years, but I believe around 1/2 the mall remains (I forget if indoors or outdoors), with the other half knocked down in favor of housing/apartments and/or a Walmart.

The Shore Mall in the Egg Harbor, NJ (GSP Exit 36/37) area is also meeting the same fate.  Off hand, I forget how that mall is going to be rebuilt.

In Delaware, a shopping center was built at the old Brandywine Racetrack at the Concord Pike & Namaans Rd. (US 202 & DE 92)  I believe it has an indoor area that has never been used; many of the stores that are anchors are outdoor access only, which include Target and a Lowes, which has one of the oddest layouts of any garden store I've seen.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 05, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 11:11:42 AM
rant

I think I love you.

Well...this is awkward. I'm actually getting married in a couple of weeks. I'd have to check and see if she's into that... :-/
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kphoger on June 05, 2013, 04:52:30 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 03:15:17 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 05, 2013, 01:24:38 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 05, 2013, 11:11:42 AM
rant

I think I love you.

Well...this is awkward. I'm actually getting married in a couple of weeks. I'd have to check and see if she's into that... :-/

I don't think it matters:  I already am married.   :no:  Oh yeah, and not gay (despite what my schoolmates said about me).

(Congratulations, by the way.)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: texaskdog on June 06, 2013, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on June 04, 2013, 11:18:49 PM
My own most significant "dead mall" is Apache Plaza in St. Anthony MN (suburban Minneapolis). It was the second indoor mall in the country (1961), but for a time in the 1970s and 1980s was a major shopping area for the northern part of the Twin Cities. I moved into that area around 1981; in 1984, a tornado hit the mall. By the time I left the area in 2002, it had degraded to a couple of active stores and indoor walking space. Before I lived there, it did have a "Monkey Wards". It ultimately (2005) was demolished and became a "lifestyle center", with lots of outdoor walking space, condos and a WalMart near the pre-existing Cub Foods.

I used to go there for baseball card shows.  Now I work by Highland Mall in Austin.  I ought to go over and take pictures to see if anything is still left there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jp the roadgeek on June 07, 2013, 04:40:16 PM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on March 16, 2012, 10:34:39 PM
There once was the Worcester Common Outlets in downtown Worcester, MA, close to the DCU Center and the Amtrak/MBTA train and Greyhound/Peter Pan Bus terminal. Much of that building and an adjacent parking garage has since been torn down. The Auburn Mall sits fairly close to I-90 and I-290 in Auburn, MA, but never looks that busy when passing by it.

WestFarms Mall opened on the West Hartford/Farmington town line in 1974, hence its name. It doesn't have a food court, but yet still does very well, being very close to I-84 and the CT Route 9 expressway. It already sits on CT Route 71, which receives a ton of traffic. Red Robin, Wendy's and the Corbin's Corner shopping plazas are all walking distance from where the city busses let off.

Westfield Shoppingtown in Meriden is close to I-691 and is off of CT Route 71 (Chamberlain Highway), a good 7 miles or so to my south. It has a food court at least. It nearly doubled in size back in the 1990s, opening a wing which includes Best Buy, Old Navy and Dick's Sporting Goods. There was a Border's book store there. Oh well!

Happened to be in Downtown Worcester last weekend, and Worcester Common Outlets has been replaced with an office building that has an "UNUM" sign on the front of it.  Basically, an extension of the PNC office building that was attached on the other side.  The new hot spot for Worcester is The Shops at Blackstone Valley, another lifestyle center near the Pike and 146.

Really would't consider Meriden Square..I mean Westfield Meriden dead, or Westfarms for that matter.  A couple I would: Brass Mill Center in Waterbury, which is itself the replacement of Naugatuck Valley Mall, which was dead for years.  I saw Stamford Town Center a couple of years ago, and it looked like it was dying compared to the lifestyle shopping center around it.  Enfield Square is kind of dead, but the deadest of them all has to be Eastfield Mall in Springfield.  Can't believe it's still there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on June 07, 2013, 10:27:44 PM
Toledo, OH has got to hold the title "King of the Dead Malls", if not not damn near it (same goes for the title of "King of the Dead Bowling Alleys", but that is for another day).

In the mid 1980s, Toledo had 4-1/2 indoor malls (counting Portside as a half, since it was mostly a specialty shops mall).  Today, it has only one, and for the majority of Toledoans, Franklin Park is a pain in the ass to get to, unless you live east of the mall and near I-475.

Some of the main reasons why such the high "death rate":

1) The population steadied off in the mid '80s then steadily dropped since -- right about the time Jeep, Chrysler and GM started to downsize.
2) By the late 80's, the trend was already starting to turn to new outdoor shopping &/or lifestyle areas (Spring Valley, River Place,...)
3) With outdoor shopping centers becoming "hip" again, some of the major older shopping plaza started seeing new life: (Miracle Mile, Great Eastern & Westgate)
4) New Commercial building was at a frantic pace, to the point where they were overbuilding by a LOT in the mid to late 80's, and there weren't enough businesses to fill the vacancies.

And now, the Deceased:

- North Towne Square -- The last to be built, the first to die.  They were betting on future growth to the north and east of downtown, and just across the border in Monroe County, Michigan, but to this day, much of the undeveloped lands remain undeveloped, despite the least congested connection to a major freeway (I-75 via SR-184/Alexis Rd).  Closed/Still Standing

- Southwyck Mall -- The only real threat to Franklin Park Mall. It's closest interstate connection was the Ohio Turnpike, and it was a favorite for regional shoppers moreso than local shoppers.  Whenever you have a bus line that starts downtown &/or the inner city and ends at a mall and you don't try to keep the riff-raff to but a whisper, then good luck keeping the mall healthy.  Like North Towne Square, Monkey Ward's was a major anchor, and when they folded, no other chain filled the vacancy, starting the exodus of other national names.  Southwyck was totally bulldozed a few years back. 

-  Woodville Mall -- The first major indoor mall in Toledo, and the most recent to die.  A combination of just being far enough away from the freeway (I-280) to be considered a PITA to get to and surprisingly remains on the edge of civilization for all of its 40-some years in existence (farmland/countryside begins immediately east and south of the mall), it was dying a slow death until it suddenly went into cardiac arrest, when the fire marshals immediately condemned the place soon after the start of the Holiday season a couple of years ago.  Closed/Still Standing

-  Portside -- The 1/2-mall.  Was it mainly a tourist attraction?  Was it mainly a hub for summertime activities? Was it before it's time?  There are a lot of plausible theories that could explain it's demise (I came to and left Toledo about the same time as Portside).  The fact that it was strictly specialty shops (mostly local shops and a few national retailers that you would only see in mall kiosks), you pretty much had to pay to park, and that parking was a minimum couple of blocks away via skywalks &/or pedestrian tunnels pretty much doomed it from the start. Closed/Now a Museum.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Road Hog on June 08, 2013, 12:38:00 AM
There's a mall up the road from me in Sherman, TX (Midway Mall) that is on its last legs. It was once the go-to place for a big part of Texas and Oklahoma and had three anchors (Sears, Dillard's, Penney's), plus Old Navy and several other chains filling 600K square feet.

Sears and Dillard's are the only ones that stayed when a new strip mall opened out on the freeway a few years ago. A Burlington Coat Factory took over the old Penney's space. The food court once had everything, but now it is down to a Chinese place and that's it. The store space is about 50% occupied.

Sad. But not as sad as dead babies ....  :poke:
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on June 10, 2013, 12:29:38 PM
I'm wondering if we here in the Appleton, WI area might soon be seeing that happen with Fox River Mall, with the mall's two end anchors being Sears and JCPenney.  Both companies are on life-support (Sears has only about 4-5 months' supply of cash left according to an article that I saw a couple of weeks ago) and could go 'Chapter 7' before the end of the year.

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on June 11, 2013, 02:05:07 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 10, 2013, 12:29:38 PM
I'm wondering if we here in the Appleton, WI area might soon be seeing that happen with Fox River Mall, with the mall's two end anchors being Sears and JCPenney.  Both companies are on life-support (Sears has only about 4-5 months' supply of cash left according to an article that I saw a couple of weeks ago) and could go 'Chapter 7' before the end of the year.

Mike

I think it's going to take a lot more to kill that mall. The area around the Fox River Mall is far too busy/thriving to let the mall collapse quickly. Mayfair in 'Tosa does just fine without a Sears. IMO, I never thought much of the FRM Sears store to begin with. I could see one of those two easily being replaced by a Crate & Barrel. And IIRC, that JCPenny store is one of the few attached to a mall of size that isn't two floors. If Sears and JCPenny were to go belly up permanently, I'd be more concerned with East or West Towne in Madison (in that order) or the Oakwood Mall in Eau Claire before I would the FRM.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on June 11, 2013, 11:28:31 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on June 11, 2013, 02:05:07 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 10, 2013, 12:29:38 PM
I'm wondering if we here in the Appleton, WI area might soon be seeing that happen with Fox River Mall, with the mall's two end anchors being Sears and JCPenney.  Both companies are on life-support (Sears has only about 4-5 months' supply of cash left according to an article that I saw a couple of weeks ago) and could go 'Chapter 7' before the end of the year.

Mike

I think it's going to take a lot more to kill that mall. The area around the Fox River Mall is far too busy/thriving to let the mall collapse quickly. Mayfair in 'Tosa does just fine without a Sears. IMO, I never thought much of the FRM Sears store to begin with. I could see one of those two easily being replaced by a Crate & Barrel. And IIRC, that JCPenny store is one of the few attached to a mall of size that isn't two floors. If Sears and JCPenny were to go belly up permanently, I'd be more concerned with East or West Towne in Madison (in that order) or the Oakwood Mall in Eau Claire before I would the FRM.

The area around that mall has been looking increasingly 'threadbare' in recent years, with several glaring and persistent Big-Boxâ„¢ and strip center store vacancies and little new development since at least the mid double-aughts, as well as high turnover of temporary stores in several others.  The township's relative lack of attention to the area's public works design, overall layout and condition is, IMHO, also a contributing factor.

I don't think that I've left any money behind inside of the mall in over ten years.

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 11, 2013, 02:30:43 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on June 11, 2013, 02:05:07 AM
If Sears and JCPenny were to go belly up permanently, I'd be more concerned with East or West Towne in Madison (in that order) or the Oakwood Mall in Eau Claire before I would the FRM.

Scheels will just take over any vacant space at Oakwood.  They're currently expanding into their entire 'wing' of that mall.  What's a few extra thousand square feet?

The last decade or two has seen the massive expansion of gigantic sporting goods stores in the Midwest.  Scheels, Gander Mountain, Bass Pro Shops, Dick's; in Wisconsin I don't think any of them are older than 10 years and the ones that are have been added on to and remodeled.  I've always thought it was weird to buy live bait at the same place you buy athletic shoes, but that's something you can do.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on March 07, 2017, 02:34:23 PM
Time to dust-off this thread with a bump.
Some dead mall owners turn to grocers, doctors and high schools to fill empty space. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-07/americas-desperate-mall-owners-turn-grocers-doctors-high-schools-fill-empty-space
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: vdeane on March 07, 2017, 05:46:58 PM
Colonie Center has Whole Foods.  I'm pretty sure it's not as closely connected to the rest of the mall as the other stores are - you have to walk around the store and through the cart area.  About the only thing connecting it is the roof over your head.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: sparker on March 08, 2017, 06:37:27 PM
Now that this thread has gotten the necro treatment -- out here in the South Bay we've got a mall, Vallco (in Cupertino) that shut down several years back and has been something of a local eyesore since (and it's very near the new Apple HQ "campus").  There was a county measure to put public money into revamping the facility for mixed use -- offices and selected retail -- but it was shot down at last November's election.  So the property owners will likely raze the mall and sell it off to parties presently unknown -- likely either Apple itself or some other firm wanting a prime location off I-280.  Seems that facility -- which was booming in the '80's -- was one mall too many for the area. 
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: sbeaver44 on March 20, 2017, 08:34:37 PM
West Manchester Mall in York PA was torn down in 2015 (maybe 2014?) and turned into a town center.  Much of the business seemed to have been stolen by the York Galleria across town.  However, the new West Manchester Town Center put in its place seems to be doing well so far.

Likewise, the Camp Hill mall was converted in the early 2000s into an outdoor shopping area.  It is always rather busy as it sits on US 11/15 just north of the PA 581 interchange.  Giant, a regional grocery chain, chose the shopping center to prototype a larger store concept to compete with Wegmans.

Some similarities here:  I think there is techincally one tiny area still remaining of each mall, W Manchester for the movie theatre, and Camp Hill for Boscov's.

I also spent a good amount of my childhood at each mall.  Camp Hill was a better mall IMO than neighboring Capital City but for some reason was converted.  I think West Manchester started to decline when the Walmart was sealed off from the rest of the mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on March 20, 2017, 10:51:32 PM
With the news of the JCPenny Closures, the Cleveland area is preparing for the death of another mall, Richmond Town Center (nee Richmond Mall).  Other anchors Macy's & Sears had left in the last few years.

Richmond had survived and outlasted nearby Euclid Square Mall a few miles away and had a renaissance of sorts when that mall went downhill (technically it's still "open", but there are only a few tenants -- mostly small religious organizations -- which remain).

What ultimately is doing Richmond Mall in is the lack of reasonable connections to the area freeways, and the overabundance of retail areas within a 1-3 mile range (Beachwood Place, an indoor mall, and the outdoor centers Legacy Place, Golden Gate and Eastgate Centers) -- all with much easier access to the freeways. 

Off the top of my head, that makes Great Lakes Mall the only mall in all of Cleveland's East Side with a JCPenneys...And a Sears, for that matter.  Then again, a good chunk of the east side is wealthier and wouldn't shop at at a Sears or Penney's.  Saks and Nordstroms, yes.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: bing101 on March 21, 2017, 05:21:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvFbZpItW60


KPBS News San Diego had a segment like this.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: inkyatari on March 22, 2017, 09:57:30 AM
Apparently Lincoln Mall in Matteson, IL is being torn down, after two years of remaining vacant.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on March 22, 2017, 10:07:54 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on March 22, 2017, 09:57:30 AM
Apparently Lincoln Mall in Matteson, IL is being torn down, after two years of remaining vacant.

Major mismanagement, IMHO.  When Target wanted to build by the mall, they should've been given the former Montgomery Ward location.  When Penney's came back, they should've gotten their old location.  But, it was easier, I guess to build on the periphery of the mall instead of in the mall.  Had the mall added Target and re-added Penney's, it would probably be alive and well now, with a need just to fill the Sears/Wieboldt's location.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ColossalBlocks on March 27, 2017, 12:36:23 PM
I ventured into the Jamestown Mall up in St Louis (with permission along with a few other urban explorers.) Honestly, it saddens me to see something so nostalgic close it's doors, and I would much rather go to a physical mall than have unmanned machines deliver it to me.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: sparker on March 27, 2017, 12:54:09 PM
Oakridge Mall here in south San Jose (actually Almaden) has managed to survive by tweaking their business model -- rather than simply being an omnibus shopping location (which, by and large, only functions optimally during holiday shopping season) it's also a "one-off" destination -- they attracted several upscale restaurants (Morton's, Buca di Beppo, and even the Cheesecake Factory [not a "bargain" eatery]) into the mall itself rather than on the periphery.  They had to endure the objections of the food-court franchisers, some of whom pulled out, but now they have an alternate idiom -- come down to eat, and do some casual shopping on the side.  This seemed to have worked -- the anchor stores are intact, and the mall's parking lots and garages, except for the northern periphery, which was a bit superfluous to begin with, are usually full on most evenings, even weekdays.  With this one, the Westfield folks hit a solid double if not a home run -- but being located at the junction of the 85 & 87 freeways doesn't hurt!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: epzik8 on March 27, 2017, 10:34:07 PM
Somebody has to have mentioned the Blue Hen Corporate Center in Dover, Delaware next to Dover Downs. I parked there for a NASCAR event last May.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on March 28, 2017, 01:14:30 PM
Northland Mall in Southfield might find a new vocation as pricey condos.
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?22281-Northland-Mall-s-possible-future-Pricey-condos
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/03/22/southfield-mayor-sees-new-life-northland-mall/99476090/
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: dvferyance on March 28, 2017, 01:41:56 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on March 27, 2017, 12:36:23 PM
I ventured into the Jamestown Mall up in St Louis (with permission along with a few other urban explorers.) Honestly, it saddens me to see something so nostalgic close it's doors, and I would much rather go to a physical mall than have unmanned machines deliver it to me.
The problem with Jamestown Mall it was in a remote location and far from any freeway. There really wasn't any major retail around it just mostly a residential area.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on March 31, 2017, 09:46:17 AM
http://deadmalls.com/
Is a great site to list those shopping centers that once were are now no more.

BTW, Hutchinson Mall in Hutchinson, KS is among the dead.  Did not see it personally, but a traveling companion did when I passed through there last Fall and posted on his FB page the emptiness of the mall that apparently never was.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: cpzilliacus on May 20, 2017, 08:01:46 PM
Washington Post: The place where old-fashioned malls are beating Amazon: Small-town America (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-only-mall-for-miles/2017/05/19/0571e478-39aa-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html)

QuoteHair freshly done from the beauty parlor on a recent Friday morning, Ada Clark, 93, and her daughter Carol, 63, met in front of the J.C. Penney in the Pueblo Mall, about 100 miles south of Denver. Their afternoon plan: a walk around the mall, followed by lunch at Red Lobster.

QuoteWhen the mall was built in 1976, Pueblo was a booming steel town. The Colorado Fuel and Iron Co. was the city's largest employer, and a now-empty meatpacking plant also offered good wages. The mall – with its 1,100 retail jobs – has outlasted them both. It's also the social hub for the city – and for the many small towns east to Kansas and south to New Mexico.

Quote"Any time I get out of town to go to the mall and maybe to Sam's Club, I guarantee that within an hour or so, I'm going to run into someone I know,"  said Steve Francis, 60, of Lamar, a town of nearly 8,000 people 120 miles east of Pueblo near the Kansas border. "You take your family, your neighbors, and you make a day of it. The Pueblo Mall isn't just the only game in town two hours away, it's the only game in town for three counties."

QuoteThe Pueblo Mall is an outlier in the age of Amazon.com, when socks and laundry detergent and televisions – nearly anything you can think of – can be delivered to your front stoop within hours. The rise of online shopping has summoned a death knell for some of the old standard-bearers of retail. (Jeffrey P. Bezos, the chief executive of Amazon, owns The Washington Post.)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on May 21, 2017, 04:24:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

And to think, a time not that far way, kids meet at the mall or work at the mall like in the cartoon 6teen.
https://youtu.be/Rg4ylbIdO_8
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadgeek01 on May 21, 2017, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Well, remember that 30 years ago, there was no Amazon.  You had to either go to the mall, or order it in a magazine.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Quote from: roadgeek01 on May 21, 2017, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Well, remember that 30 years ago, there was no Amazon.  You had to either go to the mall, or order it in a magazine.
Well amazon makes malls obsolete.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on May 21, 2017, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Quote from: roadgeek01 on May 21, 2017, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Well, remember that 30 years ago, there was no Amazon.  You had to either go to the mall, or order it in a magazine.
Well amazon makes malls obsolete.

Until you need to buy something you'd rather see in person first.  What's funny is that Amazon is starting to build brick and mortar stores.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 05:15:41 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 21, 2017, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Quote from: roadgeek01 on May 21, 2017, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Well, remember that 30 years ago, there was no Amazon.  You had to either go to the mall, or order it in a magazine.
Well amazon makes malls obsolete.

Until you need to buy something you'd rather see in person first.  What's funny is that Amazon is starting to build brick and mortar stores.
Just look up an image of it on google.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: vdeane on May 21, 2017, 06:11:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.
Talk to some girls about women's clothing sizes and you'll quickly understand why malls are still needed (just maybe not to as large a degree).  I refuse to buy clothing online unless it's another item of something I already own or I have no choice.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 21, 2017, 06:13:00 PM
Quote from: roadgeek01 on May 21, 2017, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Well, remember that 30 years ago, there was no Amazon.  You had to either go to the mall, or order it in a magazine.
This is true. When I was up north two months ago, I went to the Wal-Mart in Green Acres Mall, hoping to get my oil changed, on my way to see other relatives. As it turned out that branch of Wal-Mart didn't have a garage, but while I was there it was crowded as hell and most of the kids were crying to their parents and anxious to leave. If stores are trying to convince todays generation of the benefits of shopping at a mall, I would've found it hard to believe it was working.

PS, I ended up getting the oil changed at a Shell station on Francis Lewis Boulevard a day or two later.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: briantroutman on May 21, 2017, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 20, 2017, 08:01:46 PM
Washington Post: The place where old-fashioned malls are beating Amazon: Small-town America (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-only-mall-for-miles/2017/05/19/0571e478-39aa-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html)

So the author cherrypicks one healthy mall in a city of 100,000 (plus a throwaway mention of a second mall) and wants readers to believe this is representative of shopping malls "beating Amazon"  across small-town America? I can name dozens of dying malls in small towns all over the country that demonstrate otherwise.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 7/8 on May 21, 2017, 06:35:43 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on May 21, 2017, 04:24:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

And to think, a time not that far way, kids meet at the mall or work at the mall like in the cartoon 6teen.
https://youtu.be/Rg4ylbIdO_8

What a throwback to my childhood :-D! It's crazy to think that kids now-a-days might find the concept of this show outdated. I know Amazon has had a strong affect on malls, but I still like going to the mall occassionally.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on May 21, 2017, 06:44:43 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 05:15:41 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 21, 2017, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Quote from: roadgeek01 on May 21, 2017, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Well, remember that 30 years ago, there was no Amazon.  You had to either go to the mall, or order it in a magazine.
Well amazon makes malls obsolete.

Until you need to buy something you'd rather see in person first.  What's funny is that Amazon is starting to build brick and mortar stores.
Just look up an image of it on google.

It's not the same thing. Images online may not always be the most up-to-date and tend to be retouched to hide flaws. While online images have gotten more reliable, there are times when the wrong images get linked up with an item, or the manufacturer recycles an image for a similar item. Online is great for buying a replacement part or a duplicate for something, but until you know a brand or manufacturer well, clothing for instance, you don't know if they run large or small.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 21, 2017, 06:49:54 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 21, 2017, 06:11:27 PM
Talk to some girls about women's clothing sizes and you'll quickly understand why malls are still needed (just maybe not to as large a degree).
Since you mentioned girls at the mall, there's also the issue with girls having to walk past the cosmetics counter and being hassled by saleswomen trying to push the latest colors on them. Hell, I'm a guy and I've been hassled by cosmetics saleswomen. Are they really that clueless that they can't tell men from women?


Lady, I'm not a girl, not a cross-dresser, and not trans-gendered. And that shade of lipstick is ugly anyway.
:-P
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DTComposer on May 21, 2017, 06:58:06 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 05:15:41 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 21, 2017, 05:14:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:47:06 PM
Quote from: roadgeek01 on May 21, 2017, 04:25:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Well, remember that 30 years ago, there was no Amazon.  You had to either go to the mall, or order it in a magazine.
Well amazon makes malls obsolete.

Until you need to buy something you'd rather see in person first.  What's funny is that Amazon is starting to build brick and mortar stores.
Just look up an image of it on google.
Except for clothes that need to fit correctly, or anything that requires a nuanced tactile interaction (musical instruments, personal electronics, cooking equipment), or other personal "test" by the senses (furniture, speakers, televisions), or comparing similar items that need in-person comparison.

Don't get me wrong, we do about half our shopping online, and for much of our in-person shopping we try to frequent walkable downtowns and local merchants. But it should be noted that one of the tech-savviest areas in the country (Silicon Valley) also features two of the most successful traditional shopping malls in the country (Stanford Shopping Center, which just underwent a major expansion, and Valley Fair, which is in the middle of a $1 billion expansion).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.
Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.

Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.

Still not as boring as sitting on one's ass to look at Amazon on a screen.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GaryV on May 22, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 28, 2017, 01:14:30 PM
Northland Mall in Southfield might find a new vocation as pricey condos.
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?22281-Northland-Mall-s-possible-future-Pricey-condos
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2017/03/22/southfield-mayor-sees-new-life-northland-mall/99476090/

The City of Southfield may have big dreams for the site.  But if the market won't support the cost of the dream, it won't get done.

Royal Oak still has vacant property at I-696 and Woodward that was used during the construction of 696.  Despite all their grandiose plans for a "Showcase" development, nothing has happened in 3 decades.

In the meantime, they're using the old Northland parking lots for humongous piles of dirt, nearly as high as the building.  I don't know where it's all coming from.  We joke that they're not really going to tear the mall down, they're just going to bury it.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.

Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.

Still not as boring as sitting on one's ass to look at Amazon on a screen.
At least you do not have to walk.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.

Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.

Still not as boring as sitting on one's ass to look at Amazon on a screen.

At least you do not have to walk.

What do you have against walking?  It's good exercise.  Get out, be out, walk around, maybe even run into people, have human interactions.  Can't exactly do that on Amazon and Facebook.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.

Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.

Still not as boring as sitting on one's ass to look at Amazon on a screen.

At least you do not have to walk.

What do you have against walking?  It's good exercise.  Get out, be out, walk around, maybe even run into people, have human interactions.  Can't exactly do that on Amazon and Facebook.
boring
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jp the roadgeek on May 22, 2017, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.

Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.

Still not as boring as sitting on one's ass to look at Amazon on a screen.

At least you do not have to walk.

What do you have against walking?  It's good exercise.  Get out, be out, walk around, maybe even run into people, have human interactions.  Can't exactly do that on Amazon and Facebook.
boring

This sounds like either a concept that has a generation gap, or is based on having a drivers license vs. not having one.  I know once I got my license, I wanted to get out and be out.  Sure Amazon is convenient, but there's something about going to a brick and mortar store that is good for the sanity of body and mind.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 7/8 on May 22, 2017, 06:45:51 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 21, 2017, 06:11:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.
Talk to some girls about women's clothing sizes and you'll quickly understand why malls are still needed (just maybe not to as large a degree).  I refuse to buy clothing online unless it's another item of something I already own or I have no choice.

Even as a guy, I feel the same way, especially for shoes. I went shoe shopping a month ago, and the sizes that fit me ranged from 8 to 9.5. Also, some of the shoes even after trying multiple sizes just didn't feel quite right. I could never do shoe shopping online.

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on May 22, 2017, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.

Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.

Still not as boring as sitting on one's ass to look at Amazon on a screen.

At least you do not have to walk.

What do you have against walking?  It's good exercise.  Get out, be out, walk around, maybe even run into people, have human interactions.  Can't exactly do that on Amazon and Facebook.
boring

This sounds like either a concept that has a generation gap, or is based on having a drivers license vs. not having one.  I know once I got my license, I wanted to get out and be out.  Sure Amazon is convenient, but there's something about going to a brick and mortar store that is good for the sanity of body and mind.

I feel the same way too. Shopping can be a nice excuse to leave the house.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DTComposer on May 22, 2017, 07:10:32 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on May 22, 2017, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.

Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.

Still not as boring as sitting on one's ass to look at Amazon on a screen.

At least you do not have to walk.

What do you have against walking?  It's good exercise.  Get out, be out, walk around, maybe even run into people, have human interactions.  Can't exactly do that on Amazon and Facebook.
boring

This sounds like either a concept that has a generation gap, or is based on having a drivers license vs. not having one.  I know once I got my license, I wanted to get out and be out.  Sure Amazon is convenient, but there's something about going to a brick and mortar store that is good for the sanity of body and mind.

I think it's partly a generation gap, partly a technology gap. During their heyday, malls were relatively safe, convenient places for teenagers and young adults to congregate and socialize, as well as shop, eat, see movies, etc. That sort of unstructured, in-person social interaction has largely been replaced by online interaction (including forums like this). While that allows people to connect across the world with other people with similar interests, it also has allowed for people (of all ages and stripes) to feel empowered to act in ways they wouldn't dare act in person, and it also has exacerbated the "echo chambers" where one's own biases are reinforced, and where one is encouraged to vilify those who do not agree with them.

This has been somewhat counterbalanced by the general trend of younger generations being more inclusive/accepting/tolerant in an ever-diversifying population, but I am of the opinion that the decrease in face-to-face interactions (even if it's just being in the presence of hundreds of other people in a shopping mall or other public space) ultimately reinforces the polarization of this country.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on May 22, 2017, 10:04:47 PM
Malls have the potential to be huge redevelopment opportunities if they were sited right to begin with.

Suburban Vancouver's largest malls, mainly Metrotown, Lougheed and Brentwood, are now the center of high-rise suburban residential districts.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on May 22, 2017, 11:23:10 PM
With Amazon adding new regional centers throughout the country in order to accommodate "same day delivery", I wonder if it would be out of the realm of possibility to buy out some of these abandoned malls and convert them into Amazon mailing & delivery hubs?  Heck, order online and throw in a customer pick up area and you've got a 21st century Service Merchandise-type store, except it would take up the entire mall space.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: I-39 on May 24, 2017, 10:22:06 PM
Quote from: Bruce on May 22, 2017, 10:04:47 PM
Malls have the potential to be huge redevelopment opportunities if they were sited right to begin with.

Suburban Vancouver's largest malls, mainly Metrotown, Lougheed and Brentwood, are now the center of high-rise suburban residential districts.

It looks like Charlestowne Mall in St. Charles, IL is heading in that direction as well.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US71 on May 24, 2017, 10:57:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 06:00:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
What do you have against walking?  It's good exercise.  Get out, be out, walk around, maybe even run into people, have human interactions.  Can't exactly do that on Amazon and Facebook.
boring
You'll think differently when you're old and fat
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: DaBigE on May 24, 2017, 11:49:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 04:56:02 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2017, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 22, 2017, 09:42:47 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2017, 01:31:24 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

Yes, but you cannot sit around and throw french fries at your friends on Amazon.

Throwing French fries sound boring and a waste of food.

Still not as boring as sitting on one's ass to look at Amazon on a screen.

At least you do not have to walk.

What do you have against walking?  It's good exercise.  Get out, be out, walk around, maybe even run into people, have human interactions.  Can't exactly do that on Amazon and Facebook.

It's also an interesting place just to people watch.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: renegade on May 25, 2017, 12:02:09 AM
Can we be rid of this kid already, or are we going to let him stink up every topic in the forum?

Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jeffandnicole on May 25, 2017, 08:47:06 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 25, 2017, 08:27:15 AM
Quote from: renegade on May 25, 2017, 12:02:09 AM
Can we be rid of this kid already, or are we going to let him stink up every topic in the forum?

Inquiring minds want to know.
My opinion. I think malls are boring.

Your opinion is fine.  It's just not related to the topic.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Desert Man on May 26, 2017, 01:05:09 PM
The Palm Springs and Indio fashion malls are abandoned with hardly anything to find in their spaces, the failed Desert Fashion Plaza in Palm Springs was demolished and bulldozed in the 2000s, and the revived Westfield Shoppingtown in Palm Desert (formerly the PD Town Center). Outdoor shopping venues like the Gardens of El Paseo in Palm Desert and the River in Rancho Mirage are good places to hang out in the mild winters, but not the hot summers. I liked the PD Town center better than the Indio fashion mall, but Indio wasn't expensive.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 12, 2017, 07:52:25 PM
A bit more on the table. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-12/these-cities-have-massively-overbuilt-retail-square-footage-2000-hint-most-them
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kkt on June 12, 2017, 10:57:38 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.

So you can see colors and textures and try stuff on and see any broken threads before you buy.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on June 13, 2017, 12:29:41 AM
In an interesting twist, here is a story of a vibrant mall in Denver that has slipped into a coma for 6 months:

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2017/05/16/colorado-mills-closed-storm/
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on June 13, 2017, 09:22:02 AM
We had a good one in my area that was not a major mall, but a typical suburban outdoor strip mall.  When Publix moved out we lost what the plaza once had where it was the central place for all shopping.  Then when Walgreens left to open an independent store up the street, it was dead for a while. Just a couple of small stores and a Blockbuster video (remember them lol) on the very end doing some business.

Then even though Big Lots came in as well as Odd Lots it still never went back to the old days.  Those two stores are the biggies while the rest are come and go mom and pop businesses that struggle.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 1995hoo on June 25, 2017, 08:34:28 AM
Quote from: vdeane on May 21, 2017, 06:11:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.
Talk to some girls about women's clothing sizes and you'll quickly understand why malls are still needed (just maybe not to as large a degree).  I refuse to buy clothing online unless it's another item of something I already own or I have no choice.

It's not just females who have that sort of issue. The kid probably doesn't know this because his mom probably shops for him, but not all brands of men's clothing are cut the same way. For long-sleeve dress shirts, where the size is measured by neck and sleeve length (example, 16.5—33), it's pretty easy to get the right size as long as they tell you whether it's a regular fit, slim fit, etc. But for other stuff where the sizing is "large," "extra-large," etc., unless you know the particular brand, you don't know until you try it on whether it fits. It's a pain in the arse ordering, finding you got the wrong size, sending it back, waiting again, etc., when you could just go to the store. Even pants measured by waist and inseam can fit differently through the leg and crotch (too many of them do not specify the crotch rise, so trying stuff on is still important).

I seldom wear suits these days, but those are one item I will never buy online. They ALWAYS need to be tailored, plus I always have to get "suit separates" for sizing reasons. You go to the store, they can very easily figure out the right size for the alterations you'll need.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on January 01, 2018, 08:47:31 AM
I bump this thread by mentionning this thread on Skyscraperpage about dead malls in Canada including some clips posted on Youtube. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=130447&page=35
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 20, 2018, 03:48:18 PM
The Burlington Center Mall is all but closed, due to water pipes bursting during an early January freeze.  The township has ordered it closed, and it's unlikely the mall which had very few tenants left anyway will ever reopen.  The Sears store remains open because that wasn't affected, and is owned separately from the mall.  Kinda ironic that of all the Sears closings going on, this one in a dead mall remains!

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2018/01/20/future-unclear-for-shopping-mall-ranked-worst-in-new-jersey/

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: webny99 on January 20, 2018, 08:53:09 PM
In Rochester we had the old Irondequoit Mall, which basically died when JCPenneys (IIRC) pulled out and the other anchor stores followed suit. It was bought out and renamed the Medley Centre, which was a joke and a half from the get go. Except for Target (which is detached), the entire mall is still sitting there empty. Kind of creepy.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US 89 on January 21, 2018, 12:25:26 AM
Salt Lake City has the Gateway Mall, which basically died when the City Creek Mall opened up three blocks to the east. Most of the stores moved there, and a lot of the others closed completely. It’s a shame, especially because the decline has caused the Mall and surrounding neighborhood to be much more dangerous than ten years ago, filled with homeless, drugs, etc.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ftballfan on January 21, 2018, 12:34:28 PM
Michigan has quite a few dead malls:

* Courtland Center (Burton) - Not as dead as some other malls on this list (still has JCPenney and appears to have decent occupancy)
* Rogers Plaza (Wyoming) - In a rough area and anchored by Montgomery Ward and Best Products; still around as a shopping center with stores like Family Fare (regional grocery chain) and OfficeMax
* North Kent Mall (Grand Rapids) - Anchored by Montgomery Ward and Kmart. The mall was demolished for a Lowe's in the early 2000s. Kmart remained open until 2016 and Wards was subdivided into three stores. More info: http://gr-retro.blogspot.com/2011/03/north-kent-mall.html
* Cherryland Mall (Traverse City) - Anchored by Sears, Kmart, and Younkers. Put out of business by a much larger and nicer mall in a better location with Hudson's (now Macy's), JCPenney, and Target. Still exists as a strip mall with Sears and Younkers (the Kmart closed last year): http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/cherryland_mall.html
* Universal Mall (Warren) - Anchored by Montgomery Ward, Mervyn's, and Value City, all of which filed for Chapter 7. Converted to a strip mall with Burlington Coat Factory and Marshalls as anchors: http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/universal_mall.html
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on January 21, 2018, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on January 21, 2018, 12:34:28 PM
Michigan has quite a few dead malls:

* Courtland Center (Burton) - Not as dead as some other malls on this list (still has JCPenney and appears to have decent occupancy)
* Rogers Plaza (Wyoming) - In a rough area and anchored by Montgomery Ward and Best Products; still around as a shopping center with stores like Family Fare (regional grocery chain) and OfficeMax
* North Kent Mall (Grand Rapids) - Anchored by Montgomery Ward and Kmart. The mall was demolished for a Lowe's in the early 2000s. Kmart remained open until 2016 and Wards was subdivided into three stores. More info: http://gr-retro.blogspot.com/2011/03/north-kent-mall.html
* Cherryland Mall (Traverse City) - Anchored by Sears, Kmart, and Younkers. Put out of business by a much larger and nicer mall in a better location with Hudson's (now Macy's), JCPenney, and Target. Still exists as a strip mall with Sears and Younkers (the Kmart closed last year): http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/cherryland_mall.html
* Universal Mall (Warren) - Anchored by Montgomery Ward, Mervyn's, and Value City, all of which filed for Chapter 7. Converted to a strip mall with Burlington Coat Factory and Marshalls as anchors: http://www.deadmalls.com/malls/universal_mall.html
Out of these malls I'm familiar with Courtland Center. It is a pretty dead mall if you've ever been inside it you'd notice numerous vacant storefronts but of course JCPenney's is still there and there is a Dunham's on the other end of the mall as well as a Planet Fitness but other than that there are some stores on the outside like Staples, JoAnn's and Old Country Buffet. I can't remember if the movie theater is still open or not but I don't think it is. The theater was in the back kind of in an out of the way area if you ask me.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on January 21, 2018, 04:59:05 PM
I'm surprised to see that, if I'm not mistaken, we haven't mentioned Dutchess Mall in Fishkill, NY yet. This one's weird because, although the mall was closed and demolished, only the middle part of it was torn down, leaving the anchor buildings at either end standing. In the newly vacant space between them, they built a Home Depot. But even with that going on to this day, the site is still extremely dead-looking.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: briantroutman on January 21, 2018, 06:19:24 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 21, 2018, 04:59:05 PM
This one's weird because, although the mall was closed and demolished, only the middle part of it was torn down, leaving the anchor buildings at either end standing.

There's a similar situation a few miles away from where I live. The Granite Run Mall was a typical '60s/'70s-type enclosed suburban shopping mall that started to struggle in recent years. The mall was sold to new owners who decided to tear down the mall itself and redevelop the site as an outdoor "lifestyle center" . However two of the anchors (Boscov's and Sears) were left standing and are still open for business amidst the rubble and construction debris that litter the site while the the rest of the site is being developed.

I have no doubt that the reborn Granite Run complex will be bustling once its open, but currently, it's a bizarre sight. The Sears and Boscov's stores had to hang large "We're Open!"  banners on the sides of their stores since the scene looks so desolate.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on January 21, 2018, 11:15:41 PM
In Courtland Center in Burton I count 29 current stores. In the mid-1990's this mall had about 80 stores.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Hurricane Rex on January 22, 2018, 12:27:59 AM
In my opinion, Lloyd Center in Portland is slowly dying and Pioneer Place is dead.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on January 22, 2018, 09:53:28 AM
Saw this one over the weekend on the internet -- Burlington Center Mall in Jersey.  Looks like the main mall died for good after the water pipes recently burst. 

The one head scratcher to this mall's demise, is that Sears is the only thing remaining open there now...for now.

Here is a video of the mall back in September:   
https://youtu.be/kK7z3JO-vvU
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 1995hoo on January 22, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
The thing about Sears stores remaining open at otherwise-dead malls is that Sears (the corporation) usually owns said store's space at a given mall, rather than leasing it from the mall's owner(s).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on January 22, 2018, 11:17:50 AM
I guess I'll talk about Richmond malls...

Virginia Center Commons Mall in Glen Allen, VA has been moribund for a few years now - it has a rather high number of vacant spaces. An anchor space (formerly Dillard's) has been taken up by American Family Fitness, but there is no access to/from the mall from the gym. The food court has a number of chain knockoffs, most notably "Chick & Burger", and a large non-anchor space formerly occupied by Old Navy is now a seedy children's playground-type place called Circus Playhouse.

Stony Point Fashion Park in Richmond could be called a "dying" mall - even though it's an "upscale" open-air mall, it has fairly high vacancy rate and suffers from the fact that it's almost completely isolated from the surrounding community. The only way in or out of the mall is via VA 150, and there are no direct connections to any other roads except a closed-off access road connecting the adjoining office park to Cherokee Road.

The Shops at Willow Lawn in Henrico County is doing well as a strip mall right now but was a very stagnant enclosed mall for about 20 years after being converted from an open-air mall. The few times I visited it when it was an enclosed mall, there was never anybody there and many of the spaces were vacant. Until late last year it was noteworthy for having the area's only non-standalone Chick-fil-A (which occupied a space in the adjoining strip mall after the enclosed mall was demolished) - a standalone location with drive-through is now open across US 250.

I never visited Fairfield Mall in the East End, but it's been demolished and replaced with an open-air shopping center. It was never a particularly lively place while it existed.

Short Pump Town Center continues to thrive and drain the life from pretty much every other major shopping center and mall in the Richmond region. A lot of people prefer to shop there rather than at Chesterfield Towne Center or Southpark Mall (in Colonial Heights) despite crushing traffic on US 250 and I-64 and being somewhat out of the way for quite a few people.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: abefroman329 on January 23, 2018, 09:33:49 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on June 25, 2017, 08:34:28 AM
Quote from: vdeane on May 21, 2017, 06:11:27 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 21, 2017, 04:12:27 PM
I don't know why anyone would go to a mall. It is boring and you could just buy all that stuff on amazon.
Talk to some girls about women's clothing sizes and you'll quickly understand why malls are still needed (just maybe not to as large a degree).  I refuse to buy clothing online unless it's another item of something I already own or I have no choice.

It's not just females who have that sort of issue. The kid probably doesn't know this because his mom probably shops for him, but not all brands of men's clothing are cut the same way. For long-sleeve dress shirts, where the size is measured by neck and sleeve length (example, 16.5—33), it's pretty easy to get the right size as long as they tell you whether it's a regular fit, slim fit, etc. But for other stuff where the sizing is "large," "extra-large," etc., unless you know the particular brand, you don't know until you try it on whether it fits. It's a pain in the arse ordering, finding you got the wrong size, sending it back, waiting again, etc., when you could just go to the store. Even pants measured by waist and inseam can fit differently through the leg and crotch (too many of them do not specify the crotch rise, so trying stuff on is still important).

I seldom wear suits these days, but those are one item I will never buy online. They ALWAYS need to be tailored, plus I always have to get "suit separates" for sizing reasons. You go to the store, they can very easily figure out the right size for the alterations you'll need.

I bought a suit online recently, but this was a few months before I had weight-loss surgery, and I didn't want to spend a lot on one.  It did require more tailoring than I'd expected, but other than that it was fine.

The scenarios you describe above are why I generally like to buy clothing from brick-and-mortar stores online, because then I can return them to the store (don't have to ship them back).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: index on January 23, 2018, 10:45:02 AM
We've got a mall over in Monroe that's struggling. Monroe Crossings, I believe. Two out of three of its main stores, JCPenney and Sears, left, which comes as no surprise, considering both companies are on the decline.

I remember, when I was three or four, I tried to steal a DVD from that mall by hiding it behind my back... It obviously did not work.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on January 24, 2018, 07:25:41 AM
Posted this to Facebook (due to yet another article blaming the internet), but I'll do it here as well, and elaborate later:

Malls have reasons they fail.
1. Location: wrong side of town, away from major roads.
2. Access: cannot be accessed easily from the roads leading to/near it.
3. Visibility: you can't shop at what you can't see or find.
4. Layout: weird and convoluted layouts are difficult to navigate.
5. Crime: not crime itself, but the belief that the mall is a high-crime area, even if unjustified.
6. Competition: a better mall located nearby that can out-compete your mall.
7. Anchor existence failure: not always fatal, but losing the primary anchors can lose the possible draw a mall has.
8. Mismanagement: the big elephant in the room. Mismanagement can kill a mall that has everything else going for it.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: formulanone on January 24, 2018, 07:36:20 AM
Quote from: Brandon on January 24, 2018, 07:25:41 AM
Posted this to Facebook (due to yet another article blaming the internet), but I'll do it here as well, and elaborate later:

Malls have reasons they fail.

2. Access: cannot be accessed easily from the roads leading to/near it.
3. Visibility: you can't shop at what you can't see or find.
4. Layout: weird and convoluted layouts are difficult to navigate.
5. Crime: not crime itself, but the belief that the mall is a high-crime area, even if unjustified.
6. Competition: a better mall located nearby that can out-compete your mall.

I'm not saying your wrong, but amazingly, 2-5 hasn't stopped some of these silly open-air malls from blossoming and taking over the mall business, making them the #6 on the list. I think there were also tendencies to build new malls in areas that couldn't support them, or just weren't necessary, while the existing ones were still vibrant and busy. Once a place picks up a reputation, people and retailers flock to the nearest shiny new thing.

- Most of them are convoluted in design (wider walkways and exposed to the elements)...[2,3,4]
- Parking is either further away or congested (usually the anchors are easier to find, but where is Store X?) [2,4]
- Probably has less riff-raff. Like anything else, give it time. [5]

I guess they look upscale, because anything that's new and fashionable always attracts more well-healed clientele which makes people feel better about shopping. We'll know in another decade if it was also a bad idea, and the land gets converted to something else.

Personally, the utilitarian and boring design of the strip-mall still works for me. I don't need the fancy stuff in dull concrete expanse made to look like a generic movie set.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hbelkins on January 24, 2018, 11:22:18 AM
The only surviving mall in Lexington (Fayette Mall) is located on Nicholasville Road (US 27) just south of New Circle Road (KY 4) near one of the most heavily-congested areas in the state. Yet it's survived and thrived despite being on the opposite side of town from the interstates that bring the regional traffic that keeps the mall going.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Beltway on January 24, 2018, 11:34:23 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on January 22, 2018, 11:17:50 AM
I guess I'll talk about Richmond malls...
Virginia Center Commons Mall in Glen Allen, VA has been moribund for a few years now - it has a rather high number of vacant spaces. An anchor space (formerly Dillard's) has been taken up by American Family Fitness, but there is no access to/from the mall from the gym. The food court has a number of chain knockoffs, most notably "Chick & Burger", and a large non-anchor space formerly occupied by Old Navy is now a seedy children's playground-type place called Circus Playhouse.
Stony Point Fashion Park in Richmond could be called a "dying" mall - even though it's an "upscale" open-air mall, it has fairly high vacancy rate and suffers from the fact that it's almost completely isolated from the surrounding community. The only way in or out of the mall is via VA 150, and there are no direct connections to any other roads except a closed-off access road connecting the adjoining office park to Cherokee Road.
The Shops at Willow Lawn in Henrico County is doing well as a strip mall right now but was a very stagnant enclosed mall for about 20 years after being converted from an open-air mall. The few times I visited it when it was an enclosed mall, there was never anybody there and many of the spaces were vacant. Until late last year it was noteworthy for having the area's only non-standalone Chick-fil-A (which occupied a space in the adjoining strip mall after the enclosed mall was demolished) - a standalone location with drive-through is now open across US 250.
I never visited Fairfield Mall in the East End, but it's been demolished and replaced with an open-air shopping center. It was never a particularly lively place while it existed.
Short Pump Town Center continues to thrive and drain the life from pretty much every other major shopping center and mall in the Richmond region. A lot of people prefer to shop there rather than at Chesterfield Towne Center or Southpark Mall (in Colonial Heights) despite crushing traffic on US 250 and I-64 and being somewhat out of the way for quite a few people.

Chesterfield Towne Center has a considerable number of vacant stores, probably about 20%.   Likewise is the case with Virginia Center Commons Mall.

There are a growing number of stores being built at the site of the demolished Cloverleaf Mall, but the population of the businesses has been slow.

The Libbie Mill site near I-64 and US-33 has a lot of newly built stores, but many are still vacant.

Many big box stores are all over the region, and seem to be doing pretty well.  But the shopping mall model seems to be a declining industry all over the country.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on January 28, 2018, 09:19:45 AM
I spotted an article about converting deserted shopping centers parking lots via a post on Skyscraperpage. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=231815
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/toronto/home-sweet-mall-a-new-kind-of-neighbourhood-building-intoronto/article37704089/
Quote

Thanks to the e-commerce-induced demise of major retail chains, such as Sears and Toys "R" Us, the closing of hundreds of malls across North America has triggered a push by municipal planners to find ways to recycle these forlorn asphalt islands.

- While malls in the Greater Toronto Area haven't faced the same kind of pressure, owners are nonetheless thinking hard about future shopping trends. Across Toronto, the owners of at several large shopping centres, including Yorkdale, are pressing ahead with transformative rezoning/development applications that aim to add high-rise residential, office and entertainment projects onto the edges of malls that have functioned for years as parking lots.

- Over the next several years, thousands of Toronto condo owners and tenants will begin calling the mall home. This move marks a significant shift in residential development patterns for Toronto — one that poses new planning and traffic challenges about how to create genuinely complete neighbourhoods equipped with public spaces and community amenities, such as day care centres or even schools, on land that's long been zoned and operated exclusively for shopping.

- Some are simply tabula rasa undertakings that involve the total demolition of older shopping malls. With the Galleria Mall, at Dufferin and Dupont, developer Elad Canada is rebuilding the entire property and will then sell the apartments. – With others, the owners, typically the property management divisions of large pension funds, want to intensify their holdings with non-retail uses as a hedge against shifts in the way people shop and travel.

- The dynamics at Yorkdale are far more complicated. According to mall general manager Claire Santamaria, Oxford Properties envisions a 20-year transformation that will involve high-rise condos, a hotel and office buildings. – It is expected to become one of major nodes of new high-density development in Toronto over the next two decades, city planners say.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on January 30, 2018, 06:21:12 PM
Lakeview Square Mall in Battle Creek has two vacant anchors with only a Sears remaining as an anchor. One of the vacant anchors was Jcpenney but I can't tell what the other one was probably a Macy's.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 07:33:33 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 30, 2018, 06:21:12 PM
Lakeview Square Mall in Battle Creek has two vacant anchors with only a Sears remaining as an anchor. One of the vacant anchors was Jcpenney but I can't tell what the other one was probably a Macy's.

Started as a Hudson's.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on January 30, 2018, 11:19:25 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 07:33:33 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 30, 2018, 06:21:12 PM
Lakeview Square Mall in Battle Creek has two vacant anchors with only a Sears remaining as an anchor. One of the vacant anchors was Jcpenney but I can't tell what the other one was probably a Macy's.

Started as a Hudson's.
Which is what all Michigan Macy's did, I don't remember Macy's existing in the state when Hudson's, then Marshall Field's were still around.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on January 30, 2018, 11:22:54 PM
In the Cleveland area, two former dead mall sites are becoming regional Amazon Distribution Centers. 

One was the former Randall Park Mall in North Randall, OH (which was billed as the world's largest mall when it opened in the mid-70s) and the recently-razed Euclid Square Mall in Euclid, OH (both on the east side).

Both centers are about 10-15 miles apart, but between the two, they are a stones throw from 3 major interstates (I-90, I-271 and I-480) and are pretty much within 20-30 minutes access from the rest of the Cleveland/Akron area freeway system plus the Ohio Turnpike with easy, direct access to any city within a 2 hour radius (Akron, Canton, Youngstown, Erie PA, Toledo, Pittsburgh, etc...)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on January 31, 2018, 04:02:23 PM
Speaking of possible anchor existence failure...

The Bon-Ton Stores, Inc. Announces Locations of Store Closures as Part of Store Rationalization Program (https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/01/31/1329553/0/en/The-Bon-Ton-Stores-Inc-Announces-Locations-of-Store-Closures-as-Part-of-Store-Rationalization-Program.html)

Some interesting ones on the list:
- Streets of Woodfield.  The former One Schaumburg Place, reworked into a lifestyle center and ancillary to the Woodfield Mall.
- Millcreek Mall.  By all means this is a successful mall, even Sears was replaced with a Boscov's.
- Fox River Mall.  Mall seems successful.  Wonder what happened with Younkers?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: briantroutman on January 31, 2018, 04:23:16 PM
^ And somehow, my hometown mall's Bon-Ton was spared. That surprises me since the store has been dead the few times I went in there prior to Christmas to get a last-minute item.

This news is a slight reprieve for the mall as The Bon-Ton is Lycoming Mall's last surviving department store. Within the past twelve months, the mall's Macy's, JCPenney, and Sears have all closed. Additionally, about half (maybe more) of the mall's special store space is unrented, and recently, Toys-R-Us listed Lycoming on its list of 182 store closures. I don't really see any recovery possibilities for the mall as a viable shopping center.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: doorknob60 on January 31, 2018, 04:27:11 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 21, 2018, 12:25:26 AM
Salt Lake City has the Gateway Mall, which basically died when the City Creek Mall opened up three blocks to the east. Most of the stores moved there, and a lot of the others closed completely. It’s a shame, especially because the decline has caused the Mall and surrounding neighborhood to be much more dangerous than ten years ago, filled with homeless, drugs, etc.

That one's kinda sad, though it's certainly not dead yet. I visited a bit over a year ago and stayed at a hotel right next to there. Never visited the area before then. The lack of people was weird (though it was a Sunday in December; we went back in March and there were a lot more people, at least around the theater) and 80% of the shops being empty is weird. But having the Barnes and Noble and the movie theater seems to be keeping it afloat, and we visited a few of the other smaller shops (eg GameStop and Hot Topic). Hopefully they can do something to revitalize it. But yeah City Creek is much more lively, that place is nice and I wish other downtowns had something like it, because if they leave it as is more shops will probably start leaving (though I could see the theater still surviving). At least Gateway is open on Sundays though!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on January 31, 2018, 05:43:01 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 30, 2018, 07:33:33 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 30, 2018, 06:21:12 PM
Lakeview Square Mall in Battle Creek has two vacant anchors with only a Sears remaining as an anchor. One of the vacant anchors was Jcpenney but I can't tell what the other one was probably a Macy's.

Started as a Hudson's.
I looked at an old SV on Google Maps and can see it use to be a Macy's. I'm pretty sure the JCPenney and Macy's closed around the same time last year because I remember JCPenney still being open when I passed the mall on I-94 in May 2017 but couldn't see if the Macy's was still open or not. I walked around the Sears for a minute and it seemed like a pretty small Sears location, the mall itself is smaller than a normal major shopping mall right on par with the Midland Mall and Bay City Town Center. I can't imagine how much longer the Sears will last considering they lost JCPenney and Macy's last year.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US 89 on January 31, 2018, 08:28:53 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on January 31, 2018, 04:27:11 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 21, 2018, 12:25:26 AM
Salt Lake City has the Gateway Mall, which basically died when the City Creek Mall opened up three blocks to the east. Most of the stores moved there, and a lot of the others closed completely. It's a shame, especially because the decline has caused the Mall and surrounding neighborhood to be much more dangerous than ten years ago, filled with homeless, drugs, etc.

That one's kinda sad, though it's certainly not dead yet. I visited a bit over a year ago and stayed at a hotel right next to there. Never visited the area before then. The lack of people was weird (though it was a Sunday in December; we went back in March and there were a lot more people, at least around the theater) and 80% of the shops being empty is weird. But having the Barnes and Noble and the movie theater seems to be keeping it afloat, and we visited a few of the other smaller shops (eg GameStop and Hot Topic). Hopefully they can do something to revitalize it. But yeah City Creek is much more lively, that place is nice and I wish other downtowns had something like it, because if they leave it as is more shops will probably start leaving (though I could see the theater still surviving). At least Gateway is open on Sundays though!

The Gateway also still has the children's museum and the planetarium. Even if the rest of the mall falls apart, I'd bet the planetarium, children's museum, and movie theater all stay.

Any revitalization project is going to be at least a few years off, because it's a dangerous area, and the mall is actually right across 200 South from the homeless shelter. They are planning on closing the shelter in a couple years and replacing it with three or four other shelters scattered across the city, which was an extremely controversial decision that the mayor and city council made behind closed doors, with zero public input. Anyway, once that happens, there may be a greater incentive to try to bring the Gateway back to what it was.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on January 31, 2018, 10:20:36 PM
I've heard of Pioneer Park being pretty dangerous in Salt Lake City. Also heard of an area called Glendale that's pretty dangerous as well.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US 89 on February 01, 2018, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on January 31, 2018, 10:20:36 PM
I've heard of Pioneer Park being pretty dangerous in Salt Lake City. Also heard of an area called Glendale that's pretty dangerous as well.

Pioneer Park and the surrounding Rio Grande neighborhood (which includes the Gateway) is the center of drug and homeless-related crime, while Glendale's crime tends to be more gang-related. There are areas of SLC which are probably worse than Glendale (Rose Park/Poplar Grove and the area around the ballpark come to mind), and the worst gang activity seems to be focused in West Valley and Kearns.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 27, 2019, 08:22:09 AM
Time to bump this thread.

The old St. Louis Mills mall might have a new function if it's recycled into a sports complex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbCYsmM2DHg
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on June 27, 2019, 05:15:59 PM
In a similar vein, Northgate Mall (one of the earliest classic suburban malls) in Seattle will be redeveloped with more mixed use buildings...including a practice rink for the Seattle NHL team.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: PAHighways on June 27, 2019, 07:53:35 PM
The largest mall in southwestern Pennsylvania will be no more.  After West Mifflin condemned Century III in February due to a non-functioning sprinkler system, it was recently announced that the mall will go the way of Randall Park, another DeBartolo-built mall, and be demolished.

https://www.wtae.com/article/plans-revealed-for-demolition-redevelopment-of-century-iii-mall/28143844

While JCPenney has been closing stores nationwide, it will be keeping the last surviving remnant of Century III alive:  https://triblive.com/local/pittsburgh-allegheny/jcpenny-to-remain-open-during-century-iii-demolition/.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on June 30, 2019, 12:42:55 AM
Metrocenter Mall here in Jackson no longer operates as a shopping mall, though Burlington still operates there (since it can be accessed from the outside). The City of Jackson does have some offices there, and a local community college located a workforce training center there. Recently, an Arby's and a Krystal rebuilt their restaurants to make them more aesthetically pleasing.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on June 30, 2019, 12:54:49 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on June 30, 2019, 12:42:55 AM
Metrocenter Mall here in Jackson no longer operates as a shopping mall, though Burlington still operates there (since it can be accessed from the outside). The City of Jackson does have some offices there, and a local community college located a workforce training center there. Recently, an Arby's and a Krystal rebuilt their restaurants to make them more aesthetically pleasing.
I can't say that the food at Krystal is aesthetically pleasing.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on July 07, 2019, 10:19:41 PM
Eagle Ridge Mall in Lake Wales, FL is now almost dead.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: renegade on July 07, 2019, 10:58:26 PM
Still a pulse at the Mall of Monroe in Michigan, but it's a really weak one.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OracleUsr on July 07, 2019, 11:46:29 PM
Signal Hill Mall in my current town of Statesville, NC, is all but dead now.  Sears left long before they went out of business.  JCPenney is gone, Peebles is long gone.  Many happy memories of the semiannual karaoke contest at the stage in front of JCPenney.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on July 08, 2019, 10:46:33 AM
Lakeland Square Mall in Lakeland has an abandoned Sears that never got vacated after the once Giant moved.  I think that is on the list as another outdoor shopping center on the opposite side of town is attracting locals now. 
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: rawmustard on July 08, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
J.C. Penney has completed its closure at the Orchards Mall in Benton Harbor, MI (https://www.wsjm.com/2019/07/08/j-c-penney-exits-swmi-after-90-years/). It'll be interesting to see how the Orchards end up given the other closest malls are at least 30 miles away.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on July 08, 2019, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on July 08, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
J.C. Penney has completed its closure at the Orchards Mall in Benton Harbor, MI (https://www.wsjm.com/2019/07/08/j-c-penney-exits-swmi-after-90-years/). It'll be interesting to see how the Orchards end up given the other closest malls are at least 30 miles away.

Given that Target even left St Joe/BH, I'd say it's not good.  IMHO, The Orchards was built too big and too far off the main roads (it's a bit hidden from Napier and Pipestone) for St Joe/BH.  Maybe a smaller plaza of 30-40 stores might have made it, provided it had better visibility.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ftballfan on July 09, 2019, 07:04:31 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 08, 2019, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on July 08, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
J.C. Penney has completed its closure at the Orchards Mall in Benton Harbor, MI (https://www.wsjm.com/2019/07/08/j-c-penney-exits-swmi-after-90-years/). It'll be interesting to see how the Orchards end up given the other closest malls are at least 30 miles away.

Given that Target even left St Joe/BH, I'd say it's not good.  IMHO, The Orchards was built too big and too far off the main roads (it's a bit hidden from Napier and Pipestone) for St Joe/BH.  Maybe a smaller plaza of 30-40 stores might have made it, provided it had better visibility.
If it were at I-94 exit 23 and not exit 29, this mall would likely be doing better
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on July 09, 2019, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 09, 2019, 07:04:31 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 08, 2019, 02:07:47 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on July 08, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
J.C. Penney has completed its closure at the Orchards Mall in Benton Harbor, MI (https://www.wsjm.com/2019/07/08/j-c-penney-exits-swmi-after-90-years/). It'll be interesting to see how the Orchards end up given the other closest malls are at least 30 miles away.

Given that Target even left St Joe/BH, I'd say it's not good.  IMHO, The Orchards was built too big and too far off the main roads (it's a bit hidden from Napier and Pipestone) for St Joe/BH.  Maybe a smaller plaza of 30-40 stores might have made it, provided it had better visibility.
If it were at I-94 exit 23 and not exit 29, this mall would likely be doing better
I agree. Exits 27-33 should be avoided.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 27, 2019, 06:44:19 PM
Tarrytown mall in Rocky mount, (demolished as of right now)

And Vernon park mall in Kinston, except for one store. Belk
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: J3ebrules on July 28, 2019, 10:01:54 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on January 21, 2012, 10:54:11 AM
From what I read on Wikipedia, Nanuet Mall is either dead, or practically dead.

Around this time the Nanuet Mall was pretty much dead, but it seems to have undergone a bit of a Renaissance in the past few years as a more... I think others in this thread describe the style as an "open air" mall. Definitely not the mall that both my mother and I both grew up enjoying in the sixties and nineties, respectively. My mom was an assistant manager at the CVS on the first floor during college, and I was taken to the food court and Barnes and Noble by my grandparents. But, I got to watch the exciting new Palisades Mall go up, so my mother probably took the Nanuet Mall's loss a bit harder.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on July 28, 2019, 10:25:26 PM
On a local note here in the Appleton, WI area, I'm totally amazed as how fast the former Sears store at Fox River Mall has been totally going to seed on its exterior since it closed last year.  Crews finally removed its signs within the past few weeks and the landscaping around that former store has not been tended at all and already is heavily overgrown.

:-o

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Richard3 on August 07, 2019, 12:26:44 AM
What about this mall?

https://goo.gl/maps/PyfGDH2V4FVixHGz8 (view from I-87 south on Google Street View)

https://goo.gl/maps/K2U9csEr3Zb7j43c9 (view from US-11 on Google Street View)

https://goo.gl/maps/465LRz47nFd41W6N8 (view from Google Maps)

This mall is on the northwest quadrant of I-87 at exit 42, just west of Champlain, NY, behind the McDonald's, at less than 2 miles south of the canadian border.  I see this mall there since like 20 years, but I never seen an open store there.  Last time I passed close to it, some back doors were open, and vegetation is about to take place in the parking lot.

One day or another, I think I'll go there to take some pictures, and gather some info.

The only thing I can figure out, for now, is that mall was built before the first NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement), in a time when many Canadian shoppers crossed the border to shop in USA, in order to save canadian and provincial taxes, and save on the currency exchange as well.  But it may be a completely different story behind this building.

Somebody knows about it?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on August 07, 2019, 03:19:38 AM
When it was built, the exchange rate seriously favored Canadians coming into the USA to shop, this was during the mid to late 1990s.  When things evened back out, those cross-border shoppers, and then the stores, went away.

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: briantroutman on August 07, 2019, 12:04:41 PM
Quote from: Richard3 on August 07, 2019, 12:26:44 AM
What about this mall?

This piqued my curiosity, so I did a little digging.

The property was known as the Miromar Factory Outlet Center, and it opened in 1993. I recall a mini boom of similar "outlet"  malls around the same time. This was around the time that outlets were transitioning from being true factory outlets–i.e. clothing manufacturers selling off imperfect goods and overstock in an old industrial building–to purpose-built outlet malls selling cheaper lines of products created specifically for the outlet marketplace.

But still, outlets attracted brand-conscious and price sensitive customers, and as mgk920 observed, the relative strength of the Canadian dollar at the time made it fairly attractive for Canadians to cross the border and take advantage of U.S. prices. The Canadian dollar was still trading at less than a 1 to 1 ratio, but as you can see below, it was strengthening from the mid to late '80s and peaked around 1992 at around 90¢–probably just as this outlet center was being constructed. But the exchange rate dropped precipitously by the time Miromar opened, and it continued to get less favorable as the "Ëœ90s progressed. Miromar's parent company finally gave up  on this venture in 1999.

(https://www.moneysense.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/History-of-Canadian-US-exchange-rates1-1024x556.jpg)

This editorial (https://www.pressrepublican.com/opinion/editorial-wilmorite-just-a-footnote/article_6b79ee50-a17c-5f0d-9869-6c9df65575e8.html) I found in the Plattsburgh Press-Republican mentions Miromar, and it references a few other factors with regard to the health of the retail sector in that region, including the closure of Plattsburgh Air Force Base (and the loss of several thousand shoppers) in 1995, and competition with  the Pyramid Companies' two Champlain Centre shopping malls, the older of which had been redeveloped into an outlet mall in the 1990s. Apparently, Miromar's goal was to siphon off Canadians before they reached Plattsburgh, but their declining numbers coupled with Miromar's distance from Plattsburgh made Miromar's northern location a liability rather than an asset.

If you're really interested, there's a YouTube channel with a video from Miromar's 1993 opening (https://youtu.be/dlB5Tz9vd_4) as well a recent drive-through of the property (https://youtu.be/Titr4lNihCY).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Richard3 on August 07, 2019, 01:52:46 PM
Thanks for the info, guys!  Very interesting!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Rothman on August 07, 2019, 08:18:36 PM
Keep that Canadian dollar low!  I am headed there next week!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: steviep24 on August 17, 2019, 09:12:45 AM
The former Irondequoit Mall/Medley Center in Irondequoit, NY. It opened in 1990 and started declining by the late 90's. Closed for good in 2009. It is located off of NY 104 with some of the worst neighborhoods in NE Rochester just south of it.

https://youtu.be/QmNyVFibClQ
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 1995hoo on August 17, 2019, 10:29:44 AM
I didn't play the video, but the initial image it shows there reminds me of whatever that movie was where the world's weather went crazy and the characters were walking across snow on top of a mall and fell through the glass roof.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: AlexandriaVA on August 17, 2019, 12:36:08 PM
That most recent mall (Rochester) sure looks a lot like Landmark Mall in Alexandria's West End - another dead mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on August 17, 2019, 02:17:56 PM
Remeber Carolina East Mall in Greenville, NC and Tarrytown Mall in Rocky Mount? Both are closed and demolished.

Tarrytown was flooded in 1999 and got demolished in 2005 or 2006 and it got turned into a Sam's club.

Carolina East didn't get flooded, but they just closed it (they left Sears open) and demolished it in 2006 or 2007. It got turned into a commercial development. There's Kohl's, Fresh Market, and Dick's.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 1995hoo on August 18, 2019, 04:31:41 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on August 17, 2019, 02:17:56 PM
....

Carolina East didn't get flooded, but they just closed it (they left Sears open) and demolished it in 2006 or 2007. It got turned into a commercial development. There's Kohl's, Fresh Market, and Dick's.

"They" may not have had much choice–it's fairly common for Sears to own their own building even in shopping malls. (My brother used to work for them, hence how I learned about that.)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on August 19, 2019, 03:41:26 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 18, 2019, 04:31:41 PM
Quote from: mrhappy1261 on August 17, 2019, 02:17:56 PM
....

Carolina East didn't get flooded, but they just closed it (they left Sears open) and demolished it in 2006 or 2007. It got turned into a commercial development. There's Kohl's, Fresh Market, and Dick's.

"They" may not have had much choice–it's fairly common for Sears to own their own building even in shopping malls. (My brother used to work for them, hence how I learned about that.)
Yeah. The malls are going down and getting old. I'm not sure what new malls they are planning to build in the future.

I guess Sears is the only building that''s holding up look at Cary Towne Center too
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on August 19, 2019, 08:49:53 PM
Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers, is being closed for redevelopment. New mixed-use complex with an NHL practice rink only a few steps from light rail.

(https://i.imgur.com/tZPBFay.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/eaPUYPM.jpg)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 1995hoo on August 20, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85. Its future is highly uncertain with both Macy's and Sears gone. It wasn't all that great in the mid-1990s during my time in the area and it's gone steadily downhill since except for a brief revival when South Square closed (this because the other mall that replaced South Square is a lot further away).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on August 20, 2019, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: steviep24 on August 17, 2019, 09:12:45 AM
The former Irondequoit Mall/Medley Center in Irondequoit, NY. It opened in 1990 and started declining by the late 90's. Closed for good in 2009. It is located off of NY 104 with some of the worst neighborhoods in NE Rochester just south of it.

Oh, no, the tough stuff is well to the west, and generally south of Norton. At the time the mall was operating, a lot of the trouble was happening in the radiating avenues just north of the Inner Loop (North Ave., N. Clinton, Joseph, etc.) It's probably fanned out since then, and Irondequoit itself is certainly plagued by a certain amount of inner ring suburb crime. But the real complaint at the time was more that the city itself was just south of the mall, and worse, connected to it by buses.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: PHLBOS on August 20, 2019, 09:26:10 AM
Quote from: Bruce on August 19, 2019, 08:49:53 PM
Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85.
Apparently, the Northgate name is used for other shopping plazas/centers/malls elsewhere as well.  Revere, MA has the Northgate Shopping Center (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Revere,+MA/@42.4269402,-71.0131163,17.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e36dfd12b7a73f:0x1b7b71a73e8186bc!8m2!3d42.4084302!4d-71.0119948).  Such was built on what was formerly a small airport decades ago.  Such was closed/condemned in the mid-to-late 50s when the Copeland Circle interchange, with the never-built I-95 ghost ramps, was built.   
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on August 20, 2019, 01:40:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85. Its future is highly uncertain with both Macy's and Sears gone. It wasn't all that great in the mid-1990s during my time in the area and it's gone steadily downhill since except for a brief revival when South Square closed (this because the other mall that replaced South Square is a lot further away).

Yeah, that mall is on it's last legs and is under new ownership.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article223087340.html (https://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article223087340.html)

Meanwhile, Duke Health is turning Macy's spot into a clinic.

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/01/duke-acquires-macys-spot-at-northgate-mall-for-hospitals-largest-off-campus-clinic (https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2018/01/duke-acquires-macys-spot-at-northgate-mall-for-hospitals-largest-off-campus-clinic)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Rothman on August 22, 2019, 06:01:11 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 20, 2019, 09:26:10 AM
Quote from: Bruce on August 19, 2019, 08:49:53 PM
Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85.
Apparently, the Northgate name is used for other shopping plazas/centers/malls elsewhere as well.  Revere, MA has the Northgate Shopping Center (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Revere,+MA/@42.4269402,-71.0131163,17.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e36dfd12b7a73f:0x1b7b71a73e8186bc!8m2!3d42.4084302!4d-71.0119948).  Such was built on what was formerly a small airport decades ago.  Such was closed/condemned in the mid-to-late 50s when the Copeland Circle interchange, with the never-built I-95 ghost ramps, was built.
There's also one in Colonie, NY.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jp the roadgeek on August 22, 2019, 10:28:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2019, 06:01:11 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 20, 2019, 09:26:10 AM
Quote from: Bruce on August 19, 2019, 08:49:53 PM
Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85.
Apparently, the Northgate name is used for other shopping plazas/centers/malls elsewhere as well.  Revere, MA has the Northgate Shopping Center (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Revere,+MA/@42.4269402,-71.0131163,17.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e36dfd12b7a73f:0x1b7b71a73e8186bc!8m2!3d42.4084302!4d-71.0119948).  Such was built on what was formerly a small airport decades ago.  Such was closed/condemned in the mid-to-late 50s when the Copeland Circle interchange, with the never-built I-95 ghost ramps, was built.
There's also one in Colonie, NY.

That's actually Northway Mall (now Northway Shopping Center).  I think you're trying to combine it with Crossgates Mall a couple miles down the Northway. 
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Rothman on August 23, 2019, 06:15:02 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on August 22, 2019, 10:28:18 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 22, 2019, 06:01:11 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 20, 2019, 09:26:10 AM
Quote from: Bruce on August 19, 2019, 08:49:53 PM
Northgate Mall, one of the first suburban indoor shopping centers
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85.
Apparently, the Northgate name is used for other shopping plazas/centers/malls elsewhere as well.  Revere, MA has the Northgate Shopping Center (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Revere,+MA/@42.4269402,-71.0131163,17.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89e36dfd12b7a73f:0x1b7b71a73e8186bc!8m2!3d42.4084302!4d-71.0119948).  Such was built on what was formerly a small airport decades ago.  Such was closed/condemned in the mid-to-late 50s when the Copeland Circle interchange, with the never-built I-95 ghost ramps, was built.
There's also one in Colonie, NY.

That's actually Northway Mall (now Northway Shopping Center).  I think you're trying to combine it with Crossgates Mall a couple miles down the Northway.
I think my brain is fried on vacation.  Yeah, I was thinking about the Northway Mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: webny99 on August 23, 2019, 02:38:05 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 17, 2019, 10:29:44 AM
I didn't play the video, but the initial image it shows there reminds me of whatever that movie was where the world's weather went crazy and the characters were walking across snow on top of a mall and fell through the glass roof.
Well, Rochester has crazy weather and plenty of snow, so you're on the right track anyways.  :-P


Quote from: empirestate on August 20, 2019, 08:45:19 AM
Quote from: steviep24 on August 17, 2019, 09:12:45 AM
The former Irondequoit Mall/Medley Center in Irondequoit, NY. It opened in 1990 and started declining by the late 90's. Closed for good in 2009. It is located off of NY 104 with some of the worst neighborhoods in NE Rochester just south of it.
Oh, no, the tough stuff is well to the west, and generally south of Norton. At the time the mall was operating, a lot of the trouble was happening in the radiating avenues just north of the Inner Loop (North Ave., N. Clinton, Joseph, etc.) It's probably fanned out since then, and Irondequoit itself is certainly plagued by a certain amount of inner ring suburb crime. But the real complaint at the time was more that the city itself was just south of the mall, and worse, connected to it by buses.

Yup, that's kind of what I was thinking. The worst areas of town aren't that close to the mall, but the city as a whole is just close enough that it was the de-facto "city mall", and faced all the negative stereotypes -- not necessarily rightly so -- associated with drawing customers from the inner city.

There's also the fact that the Rochester just doesn't have the population to sustain four malls, so when Eastview opened in the 70's, something had to give. Greece and Henrietta were not only better-established as major shopping destinations, they also fit the more typical contours looked for by upscale suburbanites. Between (a) Eastview, which let's be honest is far and away the best mall, (b) the emergence of Webster as a secondary shopping destination in the 90's, and (c) migration to the outer suburbs and decline of inner suburbs in general, it's no wonder the Irondequoit mall became totally obsolete.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on August 27, 2019, 09:48:21 AM
Quote from: webny99 on August 23, 2019, 02:38:05 PM
There's also the fact that the Rochester just doesn't have the population to sustain four malls, so when Eastview opened in the 70's, something had to give. Greece and Henrietta were not only better-established as major shopping destinations, they also fit the more typical contours looked for by upscale suburbanites. Between (a) Eastview, which let's be honest is far and away the best mall, (b) the emergence of Webster as a secondary shopping destination in the 90's, and (c) migration to the outer suburbs and decline of inner suburbs in general, it's no wonder the Irondequoit mall became totally obsolete.

More broadly, and not specific to the Rochester area, the enclosed shopping mall retail model as a whole has seen a decline in recent years. Marketplace, Greece Ridge and Eastview malls attract business because they all have extensive retail districts surrounding them, Irondequoit less so.

Another factor is that those three malls are located at compass points where they can serve customers from neighboring rural areas as well as from the metro area. Because nobody lives in Lake Ontario, that's not true of Irondequoit Mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: webny99 on August 27, 2019, 10:34:40 AM
Quote from: empirestate on August 27, 2019, 09:48:21 AM
Marketplace, Greece Ridge and Eastview malls attract business because they all have extensive retail districts surrounding them, Irondequoit less so.

Right, that's kind of what I was getting at in saying that Greece and Henrietta were better-established as shopping destinations. Eastview less so, but unlike Irondequoit, Victor was sparsely populated back then and there was plenty of room for expansion for both new stores and new neighborhoods to add to the customer base.

Quote from: empirestate on August 27, 2019, 09:48:21 AM
Another factor is that those three malls are located at compass points where they can serve customers from neighboring rural areas as well as from the metro area. Because nobody lives in Lake Ontario, that's not true of Irondequoit Mall.

Very good point!  :)
That's probably no small part of why Webster has increased in prominence as a shopping destination in recent years. Not only is suburbia moving eastward, it's also a lot more convenient for rural folks to come to Webster as it's much more central to outlying populations. Relatedly, I would attribute at least some of Eastview's success -- and the growth of suburbia in Victor and Farmington -- to the close proximity to the Thruway and nearby population centers in Ontario County.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 12:27:37 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 27, 2019, 10:34:40 AM
Quote from: empirestate on August 27, 2019, 09:48:21 AM
Marketplace, Greece Ridge and Eastview malls attract business because they all have extensive retail districts surrounding them, Irondequoit less so.

Right, that's kind of what I was getting at in saying that Greece and Henrietta were better-established as shopping destinations. Eastview less so, but unlike Irondequoit, Victor was sparsely populated back then and there was plenty of room for expansion for both new stores and new neighborhoods to add to the customer base.

Quote from: empirestate on August 27, 2019, 09:48:21 AM
Another factor is that those three malls are located at compass points where they can serve customers from neighboring rural areas as well as from the metro area. Because nobody lives in Lake Ontario, that's not true of Irondequoit Mall.

Very good point!  :)
That's probably no small part of why Webster has increased in prominence as a shopping destination in recent years. Not only is suburbia moving eastward, it's also a lot more convenient for rural folks to come to Webster as it's much more central to outlying populations. Relatedly, I would attribute at least some of Eastview's success -- and the growth of suburbia in Victor and Farmington -- to the close proximity to the Thruway and nearby population centers in Ontario County.

Quite some time ago, in this very thread, I came up with a short list of why malls either do well or fail.

Quote from: Brandon on January 27, 2011, 02:26:32 PM
I've noticed a trend in dead and dying malls, and do not believe the mall is an outdated concept of any sort.  We merely had too many of them in poor locations.  The reasons I've seen malls die are as follows:

1. Poor location/accessibility.  The location is hard to see from the main roads, or is so far off the main roads it is difficult to reach.  South Commons Mall in Bolingbrook, IL is a classic here.  Located between Bolingbrook and Romeoville, the location seemed good, but...  No one from Romeoville went that far north to shop, and Bolingbrook residents did not venture south of I-55 to shop.

2. Poor anchor choices (Anchor Existence Failure).  Ward's was an obvious one in the long run, but malls with other strong anchors could survive the loss of Ward's (see North Riverside Park Mall, Yorktown SC).

3. Poor management.  Fairly obvious, IMHO.  A great location, solid anchor choices, even decent demographics, but nothing can save it due to crappy management.  Lincoln Mall (see above) is a great example.

4. Perception of high crime.  This is what killed Northridge Mall in Milwaukee, WI.  Good location, anchors, even the management was supposedly good but, the perception of crime drove shoppers away.

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

You can add to that:

6. Poor layout/floorplan.  If the mall (or other shopping center) is too difficult to navigate, people will go elsewhere, where it is easier to shop.

7. Competition.  Too many malls (or other shopping) placed too close together.  Orland Park Place in Orland Park, IL is an example.  It was built in 1981 directly across the street from the established Orland Square (built 1976).  Hence, Orland Park Place never got more than 50% full, and has subsequently been turned into a power center ancillary to Orland Square (which is still successful in spite of losing Sears - to become a huge movie theater; and losing Carson Pirie Scott - to become a Von Maur).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: dvferyance on August 27, 2019, 06:03:05 PM
That was the case in suburban east Cleveland way too many malls. You had Great Lakes, Euclid Square, Richmond Town Square, Beachwood and Randall Park all with a few miles of one another. Great Lakes and Beachwood ended up being the survivors. Same thing in suburban KC you had Oak Park and Metcalf South no more than 4 miles of one another. Oak Park survived Metcalf South did not. Valley View Mall in suburban Dallas just closed again very close to the Dallas Galleria.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ftballfan on August 27, 2019, 11:07:20 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 12:27:37 PM
Quite some time ago, in this very thread, I came up with a short list of why malls either do well or fail.

Quote from: Brandon on January 27, 2011, 02:26:32 PM
I've noticed a trend in dead and dying malls, and do not believe the mall is an outdated concept of any sort.  We merely had too many of them in poor locations.  The reasons I've seen malls die are as follows:

1. Poor location/accessibility.  The location is hard to see from the main roads, or is so far off the main roads it is difficult to reach.  South Commons Mall in Bolingbrook, IL is a classic here.  Located between Bolingbrook and Romeoville, the location seemed good, but...  No one from Romeoville went that far north to shop, and Bolingbrook residents did not venture south of I-55 to shop.

2. Poor anchor choices (Anchor Existence Failure).  Ward's was an obvious one in the long run, but malls with other strong anchors could survive the loss of Ward's (see North Riverside Park Mall, Yorktown SC).

3. Poor management.  Fairly obvious, IMHO.  A great location, solid anchor choices, even decent demographics, but nothing can save it due to crappy management.  Lincoln Mall (see above) is a great example.

4. Perception of high crime.  This is what killed Northridge Mall in Milwaukee, WI.  Good location, anchors, even the management was supposedly good but, the perception of crime drove shoppers away.

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

You can add to that:

6. Poor layout/floorplan.  If the mall (or other shopping center) is too difficult to navigate, people will go elsewhere, where it is easier to shop.

7. Competition.  Too many malls (or other shopping) placed too close together.  Orland Park Place in Orland Park, IL is an example.  It was built in 1981 directly across the street from the established Orland Square (built 1976).  Hence, Orland Park Place never got more than 50% full, and has subsequently been turned into a power center ancillary to Orland Square (which is still successful in spite of losing Sears - to become a huge movie theater; and losing Carson Pirie Scott - to become a Von Maur).

Grand Rapids had Eastbrook Mall right across M-37 from the successful Woodland Mall. Eastbrook has been turned into a power center with more success. North Kent Mall failed due to poor anchor choices (Montgomery Ward and Kmart, although the Kmart hung on until 2016, well after the rest of the mall had been demolished) and poor location (on Plainfield Ave, which has a somewhat sketchy reputation). Oddly, Woodland Mall was the only large mall in the Grand Rapids metro area until RiverTown Crossings opened across Kent County in 1999.

In Traverse City, Cherryland Mall was killed when the much larger and better located Grand Traverse Mall opened in 1992. Cherryland also had relatively poor anchor choices (Kmart, Sears, Younkers, however, the three anchors outlived the rest of the mall). On a side note, Grand Traverse Mall is one of very few malls I know of that still have all of their original anchors (although one of them has changed names twice due to mergers)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on August 28, 2019, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on August 27, 2019, 11:07:20 PM
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 12:27:37 PM
Quite some time ago, in this very thread, I came up with a short list of why malls either do well or fail.

Quote from: Brandon on January 27, 2011, 02:26:32 PM
I've noticed a trend in dead and dying malls, and do not believe the mall is an outdated concept of any sort.  We merely had too many of them in poor locations.  The reasons I've seen malls die are as follows:

1. Poor location/accessibility.  The location is hard to see from the main roads, or is so far off the main roads it is difficult to reach.  South Commons Mall in Bolingbrook, IL is a classic here.  Located between Bolingbrook and Romeoville, the location seemed good, but...  No one from Romeoville went that far north to shop, and Bolingbrook residents did not venture south of I-55 to shop.

2. Poor anchor choices (Anchor Existence Failure).  Ward's was an obvious one in the long run, but malls with other strong anchors could survive the loss of Ward's (see North Riverside Park Mall, Yorktown SC).

3. Poor management.  Fairly obvious, IMHO.  A great location, solid anchor choices, even decent demographics, but nothing can save it due to crappy management.  Lincoln Mall (see above) is a great example.

4. Perception of high crime.  This is what killed Northridge Mall in Milwaukee, WI.  Good location, anchors, even the management was supposedly good but, the perception of crime drove shoppers away.

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

You can add to that:

6. Poor layout/floorplan.  If the mall (or other shopping center) is too difficult to navigate, people will go elsewhere, where it is easier to shop.

7. Competition.  Too many malls (or other shopping) placed too close together.  Orland Park Place in Orland Park, IL is an example.  It was built in 1981 directly across the street from the established Orland Square (built 1976).  Hence, Orland Park Place never got more than 50% full, and has subsequently been turned into a power center ancillary to Orland Square (which is still successful in spite of losing Sears - to become a huge movie theater; and losing Carson Pirie Scott - to become a Von Maur).

Grand Rapids had Eastbrook Mall right across M-37 from the successful Woodland Mall. Eastbrook has been turned into a power center with more success. North Kent Mall failed due to poor anchor choices (Montgomery Ward and Kmart, although the Kmart hung on until 2016, well after the rest of the mall had been demolished) and poor location (on Plainfield Ave, which has a somewhat sketchy reputation). Oddly, Woodland Mall was the only large mall in the Grand Rapids metro area until RiverTown Crossings opened across Kent County in 1999.

In Traverse City, Cherryland Mall was killed when the much larger and better located Grand Traverse Mall opened in 1992. Cherryland also had relatively poor anchor choices (Kmart, Sears, Younkers, however, the three anchors outlived the rest of the mall). On a side note, Grand Traverse Mall is one of very few malls I know of that still have all of their original anchors (although one of them has changed names twice due to mergers)
Fashion Square in Saginaw still has their original anchors at least until October. JCP and Sears are original. Hudson's was added a few years later, then it of course went through the name changes that Hudson's has. Sears is a goner come October though.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: empirestate on August 30, 2019, 01:25:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on August 27, 2019, 10:34:40 AMRelatedly, I would attribute at least some of Eastview's success -- and the growth of suburbia in Victor and Farmington -- to the close proximity to the Thruway and nearby population centers in Ontario County.

Eastview benefited greatly from the increased popularity of the southeastern suburbs and their perceived higher quality of life, together with the increased acceptability of a commute that long (and/or the general migration of employment centers in that direction).

Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2019, 12:27:37 PM
6. Poor layout/floorplan.  If the mall (or other shopping center) is too difficult to navigate, people will go elsewhere, where it is easier to shop.

I'd actually give that as an example of why malls are, indeed, considered an outdate concept by many. The open-air, "town square" style of retail center became popular in the early 2000s at the same time that the indoor mall was declining in vogue. I'm not sure there's quite the push for those that there used to be, but it's notable that 1) most of the high-end, luxury retail complexes I can think of are this type (the fake, if not actually the real, kind of town square); and 2) developments of this kind have actually been added to some existing enclosed malls as part of renovation/redevelopment.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: inkyatari on August 30, 2019, 05:03:23 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 27, 2011, 02:26:32 PM

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

30% occupancy now, with one anchor, and nothing in the food court.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on August 30, 2019, 05:22:35 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 30, 2019, 05:03:23 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 27, 2011, 02:26:32 PM

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

30% occupancy now, with one anchor, and nothing in the food court.

Not too surprised (I wrote the original in 2011) with the loss of Sears and both Carson's stores.  It's got Penney's and the theater, and that's pretty much it.  Might be best to demo all between Penney's and the theater, and build a small lifestyle strip between the two.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: inkyatari on September 03, 2019, 09:44:09 AM
Quote from: Brandon on August 30, 2019, 05:22:35 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 30, 2019, 05:03:23 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 27, 2011, 02:26:32 PM

5. Mall is too big for community.  I've never seen malls too small for a community.  These can, and do expand.  Malls however, can be built too big for the area they serve.  A classic example is Northfield Square in Bradley, IL.  This mall was originally built too big for the Kankakee area, and never got to full capacity.  Today, it survives at 60-70% capacity and completely filled anchor spots.  Had it been built with 30% fewer inline stores, it would be at 90-100% capacity.  Too much space can make the mall lose some cache and exclusivity for merchants.

30% occupancy now, with one anchor, and nothing in the food court.

Not too surprised (I wrote the original in 2011) with the loss of Sears and both Carson's stores.  It's got Penney's and the theater, and that's pretty much it.  Might be best to demo all between Penney's and the theater, and build a small lifestyle strip between the two.

I lived in the area from 90 until about 2007-ish. THe mall was never really going to take off, given the demographics of the area.

I need to get back to visit to see the unintentionally hilarious statue of a boy helping a girl I think make a phone call from a pay phone.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on September 03, 2019, 07:35:44 PM
Hopefully the nearby Avenues in the Avenues area won't become yet another dead mall (see the Regency area for a good example of one, the Regency Square Mall, which killed off traffic from earlier-built malls such as Roosevelt, Normandy, Philips, and Gateway (this one in particular, as it WAS our city's largest and most notable mall before the Regency Square Mall's opening and subsequent expansion)), despite the fact that it is slated to lose its Sears. At least it doesn't have the perception of being in a declining area like the Regency Square Mall was known to be, starting in about 1999-2000, and peaking in 2004 (though the mall itself would continue to decline through the Great Recession to today, unlike the other restaurant/retail/shopping developments surrounding the mall itself, which have actually come back to life following the Great Recession).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on May 04, 2020, 01:13:18 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 20, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
When you said "Northgate Mall," I initially thought of the one in Durham, North Carolina, just off I-85. Its future is highly uncertain with both Macy's and Sears gone. It wasn't all that great in the mid-1990s during my time in the area and it's gone steadily downhill since except for a brief revival when South Square closed (this because the other mall that replaced South Square is a lot further away).

Northgate just bit the dust.

https://www.wral.com/northgate-mall-closing-from-financial-struggles-worsened-by-covid-19/19083621/ (https://www.wral.com/northgate-mall-closing-from-financial-struggles-worsened-by-covid-19/19083621/)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ErmineNotyours on May 08, 2020, 10:46:27 PM
The Shoppes at Riverside near Aberdeen, Washington has a big hole in it.  Street View. (https://goo.gl/maps/GeP2Hu9nR3XpdELd7)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GenExpwy on May 09, 2020, 04:12:22 AM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 08, 2020, 10:46:27 PM
The Shoppes at Riverside near Aberdeen, Washington has a big hole in it.  Street View. (https://goo.gl/maps/GeP2Hu9nR3XpdELd7)

Quite a few malls built in their heyday had a "pad"  reserved for a potential extra department store.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ErmineNotyours on May 11, 2020, 11:08:13 PM
Quote from: GenExpwy on May 09, 2020, 04:12:22 AM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 08, 2020, 10:46:27 PM
The Shoppes at Riverside near Aberdeen, Washington has a big hole in it.  Street View. (https://goo.gl/maps/GeP2Hu9nR3XpdELd7)

Quite a few malls built in their heyday had a "pad"  reserved for a potential extra department store.

The original concept drawings for Southcenter (Tukwila, Washington) showed another anchor right across the aisle from J. C. Penny's, even though all the other anchors were spread out a bit.  The first pamphlet maps showed an empty pad there and the wall was just open window.  When they finally developed that part for Mervyn's, they built out a length of mall shops to give Penny's some space.  Now it's a Sea Food City, bringing practical shopping back to Southcenter which is otherwise a luxury mall with a Sears and Penny's.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: spooky on May 12, 2020, 09:12:52 AM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 11, 2020, 11:08:13 PM
a luxury mall with a Sears and Penny's.

I'll take "words you don't expect to be spoken together" for $1000.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Tonytone on May 12, 2020, 09:54:25 PM
Quote from: spooky on May 12, 2020, 09:12:52 AM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 11, 2020, 11:08:13 PM
a luxury mall with a Sears and Penny's.

I'll take "words you don't expect to be spoken together" for $1000.
Sheesh not even a Macys Penny's mix. Just a Sears & Penny's? Atleast that was luxury for middle class in 1995


iPhone
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ErmineNotyours on May 12, 2020, 10:04:24 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on May 12, 2020, 09:54:25 PM
Quote from: spooky on May 12, 2020, 09:12:52 AM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 11, 2020, 11:08:13 PM
a luxury mall with a Sears and Penny's.

I'll take "words you don't expect to be spoken together" for $1000.
Sheesh not even a Macys Penny's mix. Just a Sears & Penny's? Atleast that was luxury for middle class in 1995


iPhone

Sears, Penny's, Nordstoms and Macy's.  What I meant to say is that they tried to upgrade to a luxury mall, but they didn't want to get rid of two of their anchor stores.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on June 21, 2020, 03:08:06 AM
Cascade Mall in Burlington, WA (the only enclosed shopping center from Marysville to Bellingham) will be closing at the end of the month. They only had one anchor tenant left (TJ Maxx), and a few on the periphery.

https://www.goskagit.com/news/local_news/cascade-mall-to-close-at-end-of-june/article_fe336545-6c50-575a-854d-9eb6b5b8b94b.html
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: D-Dey65 on July 04, 2020, 06:11:58 PM
I think Paddock Mall in Ocala is dead. If not, it must be dying.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 04, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
Wonder if covid will accelerate the death of many malls.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on July 04, 2020, 07:56:53 PM
Quote from: Beltway on January 20, 2012, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on January 20, 2012, 10:07:52 PM
Quote from: Takumi on January 14, 2012, 03:55:12 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 09, 2011, 12:52:46 AM
Near Richmond the old Cloverleaf Mall has been closed for years now.

Something was supposed to be done to the property but I have not heard much about it lately.

According to a now-dead link on Deadmalls (http://deadmalls.com/malls/cloverleaf_mall.html) a church tried to buy it in 2005. More recently I'd heard it was supposed to become a housing development. It was demolished (http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-cloverleaf-mall-demolition-20111025,0,3911624.story) late last year.
Cloverleaf hasn't been fully demolished yet, apparently some deal regarding use of the land has stalled, and so the pace of the demolition has slowed.

It's less than 50% demolished today, there is a tremendous amount of work to dismantle those steel-framed buildings, and to remove and recycle acres of asphalt parking lots.

Here's what is planned --

Revitalization Office - Cloverleaf Mall Project
http://www.chesterfield.gov/content.aspx?id=2772
This has been around for a few years now, and looks to be doing very well.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: 1995hoo on July 04, 2020, 10:10:49 PM
Sears is the last remaining business at Landmark Mall in Alexandria, although the old Hecht's is being used as a homeless shelter. That Sears store's impending closure was finally announced this week.

The mall itself will appear in the upcoming Wonder Woman movie.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on July 05, 2020, 03:06:02 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 04, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
Wonder if covid will accelerate the death of many malls.

Already has. Cascade Mall in Burlington, WA closed a few days ago due in part to the COVID shutdown.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Ned Weasel on July 05, 2020, 10:24:50 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 04, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
Wonder if covid will accelerate the death of many malls.

I'm almost certain of it.  Spread of the virus favors indoor environments, especially ones with air conditioning systems lacking the necessary filtration to minimize the spread.  Being outdoors is much safer, although it's still best to wear a mask and stay at least six feet away from people as much as possible.

It's sad.  Architects probably couldn't have anticipated this any better than they could have anticipated the eventual rise of Walmart and Amazon.

For what it's worth, has anyone here read Alex Wall's book on Victor Gruen: "From Urban Shop to New City?"  It's a fascinating read on the thoughts and work of the person who gave us the malls we knew and loved.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: dfilpus on July 05, 2020, 11:38:27 AM
Quote from: Bruce on July 05, 2020, 03:06:02 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 04, 2020, 07:07:30 PM
Wonder if covid will accelerate the death of many malls.

Already has. Cascade Mall in Burlington, WA closed a few days ago due in part to the COVID shutdown.

Northgate Mall in Durham, NC is another victim to COVID. It was dying before the pandemic, so this was just the coup de grace.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on July 05, 2020, 03:54:24 PM
Fashion Square Mall in Saginaw, Michigan is quickly declining. This mall had all their anchors filled until Sears closed last October and the Macy's in this mall doesn't seem to be doing the best but I'm not sure there. There are several storefronts vacant in the mall I would say it's around 40% filled now. Saginaw had another mall called Fort Saginaw Mall which is on the dead mall site and was demolished in 2009, this mall was older than Fashion Square and closed in the 1990's. A Kmart that was attached hung on until 2004.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on July 05, 2020, 05:14:04 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 05, 2020, 10:24:50 AM
It's sad.  Architects probably couldn't have anticipated this any better than they could have anticipated the eventual rise of Walmart and Amazon.

Developers did start pivoting towards lifestyle centers with outdoor sections, though, and those look to be safer than a traditional indoor mall. Three of the local malls with outdoor areas have reopened and seem to be busy.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Ned Weasel on July 06, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
Death watch for the elephant in the room: https://www.archpaper.com/2020/07/the-future-doesnt-look-so-bright-for-new-jerseys-american-dream-mall/

I disagree with Christie's opinion on the aesthetics, but I think the project has always had a big "WHY!?" dangling over it from the start.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on July 07, 2020, 06:58:26 PM
In Lakeland, FL we have Lakeland Square that is not what it used to be while another mall died decades ago and actually became a non denomital church.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SectorZ on July 08, 2020, 07:59:16 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 06, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
Death watch for the elephant in the room: https://www.archpaper.com/2020/07/the-future-doesnt-look-so-bright-for-new-jerseys-american-dream-mall/

I disagree with Christie's opinion on the aesthetics, but I think the project has always had a big "WHY!?" dangling over it from the start.

I remember the first time I drove by that en route to the mid-Atlantic. I knew nothing about it, and had a huge WTF moment seeing it. That ski jump is the true cherry on that turd sundae.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on July 08, 2020, 10:01:25 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on July 08, 2020, 07:59:16 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 06, 2020, 10:03:10 AM
Death watch for the elephant in the room: https://www.archpaper.com/2020/07/the-future-doesnt-look-so-bright-for-new-jerseys-american-dream-mall/

I disagree with Christie's opinion on the aesthetics, but I think the project has always had a big "WHY!?" dangling over it from the start.

I remember the first time I drove by that en route to the mid-Atlantic. I knew nothing about it, and had a huge WTF moment seeing it. That ski jump is the true cherry on that turd sundae.


I have this huge new mall out in the swampland I'd like to sell you...
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: AlexandriaVA on July 08, 2020, 10:15:13 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 04, 2020, 10:10:49 PM
Sears is the last remaining business at Landmark Mall in Alexandria, although the old Hecht's is being used as a homeless shelter. That Sears store's impending closure was finally announced this week.

The mall itself will appear in the upcoming Wonder Woman movie.

No signs of life for redevelopment of the property, however. Howard Hughes corporation backed out of the idea a few months ago (before COVID). Maybe Sears will sell their parcel and allow for a wholesale overhaul.

Hard to envision what goes there. It's too far from the Van Dorn metro station (although it will be along a future Bus Rapid Transit line on Van Dorn st).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: dvferyance on July 09, 2020, 04:16:29 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2020, 03:08:06 AM
Cascade Mall in Burlington, WA (the only enclosed shopping center from Marysville to Bellingham) will be closing at the end of the month. They only had one anchor tenant left (TJ Maxx), and a few on the periphery.

https://www.goskagit.com/news/local_news/cascade-mall-to-close-at-end-of-june/article_fe336545-6c50-575a-854d-9eb6b5b8b94b.html
Did Burlington even need a mall? It has less than 10,000 in population. While it's true malls have been on the decline for years I am amazed at how many we had. I thought they were only in larger cities.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on July 09, 2020, 04:52:46 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 09, 2020, 04:16:29 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2020, 03:08:06 AM
Cascade Mall in Burlington, WA (the only enclosed shopping center from Marysville to Bellingham) will be closing at the end of the month. They only had one anchor tenant left (TJ Maxx), and a few on the periphery.

https://www.goskagit.com/news/local_news/cascade-mall-to-close-at-end-of-june/article_fe336545-6c50-575a-854d-9eb6b5b8b94b.html
Did Burlington even need a mall? It has less than 10,000 in population. While it's true malls have been on the decline for years I am amazed at how many we had. I thought they were only in larger cities.

I suspect it was built to attract customers from Vancouver, BC.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Konza on July 09, 2020, 05:19:51 PM
Quote from: Bruce on July 05, 2020, 05:14:04 PMDevelopers did start pivoting towards lifestyle centers with outdoor sections, though, and those look to be safer than a traditional indoor mall. Three of the local malls with outdoor areas have reopened and seem to be busy.

The main reason developers "pivoted" to "lifestyle centers" is because of the decline of the department store business.

New malls used to be built because the "anchors" (department stores) wanted new locations.  When the department stores were no longer were interested in expanding their footprint but other national chains that usually located in malls wanted new locations, developers responded by building what are essentially malls without department store anchors.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on July 09, 2020, 05:25:44 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 09, 2020, 04:52:46 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 09, 2020, 04:16:29 PM
Quote from: Bruce on June 21, 2020, 03:08:06 AM
Cascade Mall in Burlington, WA (the only enclosed shopping center from Marysville to Bellingham) will be closing at the end of the month. They only had one anchor tenant left (TJ Maxx), and a few on the periphery.

https://www.goskagit.com/news/local_news/cascade-mall-to-close-at-end-of-june/article_fe336545-6c50-575a-854d-9eb6b5b8b94b.html
Did Burlington even need a mall? It has less than 10,000 in population. While it's true malls have been on the decline for years I am amazed at how many we had. I thought they were only in larger cities.

I suspect it was built to attract customers from Vancouver, BC.

Cascade Mall was built to serve Skagit County, which has 110K, and a bit of north Snohomish (which has 100K on its own). There is a closer mall for Vancouverites (Bellis Fair in Bellingham) and an adjacent outlet mall that is squarely targeted at Canadians. Though both seem to be eclipsed by the Quil Ceda outlet mall+casino combo on the Tulalip Res, which has so many BC plates in their parking lots.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: briantroutman on July 09, 2020, 05:35:30 PM
^ Along the same lines, I recall coming across a vacant outlet mall adjacent to I-87 (Exit 42) near Plattsburgh, NY. I can't recall the name offhand, but I later found some contemporary articles about the mall's opening and that one of its major targets was Québécois looking for bargains. But fluctuations in the exchange rate around the time of the mall's virtually nullified that benefit, and the mall failed.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kphoger on July 09, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
Are outlet malls still a thing?  Or are those dying too?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadrunner75 on July 09, 2020, 08:46:08 PM
I've never thought of most "outlet" malls as true outlets.   A lot of these places have items made specifically for them.  Having been to what I consider real outlets in Reading, PA, most of these are just big strip malls of expensive brands selling alternate versions of their products. 

That being said, the "outlets" local to me seemed to being doing well (at least pre-pandemic) and a new one was built nearby only a couple of years ago.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Revive 755 on July 09, 2020, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 09, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
Are outlet malls still a thing?  Or are those dying too?

Seems to depend a lot on the location.  I can think of a few that were dying prior to the pandemic.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on July 09, 2020, 11:25:08 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 09, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
Are outlet malls still a thing?  Or are those dying too?
The one in Williamsburg, VA is still doing well, although Williamsburg itself is a tourist destination so that's not unexpected.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ftballfan on July 10, 2020, 11:15:04 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 09, 2020, 08:46:08 PM
I've never thought of most "outlet" malls as true outlets.   A lot of these places have items made specifically for them.  Having been to what I consider real outlets in Reading, PA, most of these are just big strip malls of expensive brands selling alternate versions of their products. 

That being said, the "outlets" local to me seemed to being doing well (at least pre-pandemic) and a new one was built nearby only a couple of years ago.

A new Tanger Outlets mall was built just south of Grand Rapids, MI a few years ago. It seemed to be doing decent
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: briantroutman on July 10, 2020, 02:42:12 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 09, 2020, 08:46:08 PM
I've never thought of most "outlet" malls as true outlets.

Yes, the concept of a true factory outlet was–as far as I can tell–a relatively brief window in the 1970s and 80s when space in gritty old mill buildings was repurposed to sell off unsold inventory and slightly imperfect merchandise. By the time that the outlet mall craze became a national phenomenon in the '90s, the stores' proliferation had outstripped the manufacturers' ability to supply overstocked products, and the concept of the made-for-outlet product was born.

I recall reading an article about the growth of so-called "premium"  outlets, and it described a fairly common strategy that has worked well for many mall developers thus far. The outlet malls are frequently sited at least an hour's drive outside of a major city–intentionally–both so that customers assume "it's so inconvenient to get there, they must have great deals" , and also so that visitors have so much time and effort invested in the shopping trip that they feel obligated to buy as much as possible to make the investment worthwhile. Another strategy is to locate outlets in the vicinity of popular tourist destinations so that carefree impulse purchasing becomes an extension of the fun atmosphere of being on vacation. Products are displayed with prominent "retail price"  tags and discounts frequently of 50% or greater, but the phony sale prices are even more of a fiction than in typical department and mall stores because the outlet store products are often (literally) not sold at retail.

The target customer, I understand, has deep attachments to brand names (especially names carrying some sense of prestige)–which are prioritized over product quality or satisfaction with the product.

Quote from: kphoger on July 09, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
Are outlet malls still a thing?  Or are those dying too?

From my standpoint as a casual observer, the outlet mall trend has continued to grow in recent years, although a few aspects have evolved.

One that I alluded to above is the increased focus on selling the cache of designer brand names via inferior products to aspirational consumers who, honestly, can't afford the genuine article. With little exception, most of the declining or dead outlet malls I can think of generally lacked a focus and sold a variety of goods–often with a high percentage of non-apparel items–through stores that either weren't brand-specific or were brands that the public didn't perceive to be desirable. On the other hand, all of the successful outlet malls I know are populated almost solely by single-brand stores–and typically brands whose products are little more than vehicles for ostentatious displays of the company name: Calvin Klein, Guess, Coach, etc.

It seems that there's been a bit of a sorting out of the label-conscious crowd: Those with the least disposable income go to off-price retailers like Ross and T.J. Maxx in the hopes that they can sift through a dozen disheveled racks and come away with a few pieces from brand names they like. Those who are more brand fixated and who have a little more income–but not enough to go to a class A mall–go to the outlets to buy the brands they want.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on July 10, 2020, 03:46:00 PM
The outlet mall in Birch Run seems to be doing ok still. It's the largest outlet mall in the Midwest and it's been there since 1986.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GaryV on July 10, 2020, 03:59:25 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 10, 2020, 03:46:00 PM
The outlet mall in Birch Run seems to be doing ok still. It's the largest outlet mall in the Midwest and it's been there since 1986.
However 30 years ago it was much more "outlet" than it is now.  We used to get kid's stuff at Oshkosh, and they kindly put little stickers on the clothes noting the imperfections.  It seems when we've gone in more recent years our emphasis was on being able to get certain brands we wanted.  The stores don't seem to focus on overruns or less-than-perfect anymore.

Still, Birch Run is doing better than many other outlet malls in MI - one or 2 have closed.


Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on July 10, 2020, 04:09:29 PM
Quote from: GaryV on July 10, 2020, 03:59:25 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on July 10, 2020, 03:46:00 PM
The outlet mall in Birch Run seems to be doing ok still. It's the largest outlet mall in the Midwest and it's been there since 1986.
However 30 years ago it was much more "outlet" than it is now.  We used to get kid's stuff at Oshkosh, and they kindly put little stickers on the clothes noting the imperfections.  It seems when we've gone in more recent years our emphasis was on being able to get certain brands we wanted.  The stores don't seem to focus on overruns or less-than-perfect anymore.

Still, Birch Run is doing better than many other outlet malls in MI - one or 2 have closed.
I haven't gone into any of the stores in the Birch Run Outlets in years now. I worked at Tony's for 15 years out there and the volume of business that exit produced was crazy. It also helps that it's the NB exit for Frankenmuth.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on July 10, 2020, 05:54:00 PM
Quote
Yes, the concept of a true factory outlet was–as far as I can tell–a relatively brief window in the 1970s and 80s when space in gritty old mill buildings was repurposed to sell off unsold inventory and slightly imperfect merchandise. By the time that the outlet mall craze became a national phenomenon in the '90s, the stores' proliferation had outstripped the manufacturers' ability to supply overstocked products, and the concept of the made-for-outlet product was born.
That"Ëœs pretty much how I understand it happened. By the time I was aware of things, only Sears still had the older style outlet stores around. Companies like Marshall's and Ross were on the rise around then.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on July 10, 2020, 10:28:48 PM
A lot of the outlet stores I am familiar with are indeed about 60 minutes away from large cities.  Here in Colorado, there is a big one on I-25 in Castle Rock (about midway between Denver and Colo Springs) and there is another one in Dillon -- near the ski resorts and an hour west of Denver on I-70.

Another reason why many outlet malls were about an hour out of town: Land was waaay cheaper at a freeway exit which once had minimal services.   
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: webny99 on July 11, 2020, 12:35:17 AM
Waterloo Premium Outlets, located in the Middle Of Nowhereâ„¢ between Rochester and Syracuse, seems to be doing well. They used to have a lot of Canadian shoppers, obviously that's not the case any more, but the parking lot was still quite full both times I've been past since the start of the pandemic.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on July 11, 2020, 03:31:59 AM
Seattle Premium Outlets is about 30 miles north of Seattle and mainly exists to siphon away money from Canadian tourists.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Life in Paradise on July 11, 2020, 01:12:42 PM
In my regional area, Eddyville, KY (Western KY) had a outlet mall that is practically dead and buried.  There may be a couple of stores left out of dozens.  Edinburgh, IN has been doing well (between Columbus, IN and Indianapolis on I-65), but south of there outside of Seymour, another outlet mall has gone to that great concourse in the sky.  There is one that is outside of Evansville, IN (near US41 and I-64) that basically was platted in the late 80s, and never built other than a restaurant on the highway.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US 89 on July 11, 2020, 01:38:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 09, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
Are outlet malls still a thing?  Or are those dying too?

The Tanger Outlets mall at Kimball Junction, Utah (I-80 and SR 224) is still going strong as far as I can tell, though that may have more to do with the high volume of tourist traffic to the nearby Park City and Deer Valley ski resorts.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hbelkins on July 11, 2020, 03:26:17 PM
Quote from: Life in Paradise on July 11, 2020, 01:12:42 PM
In my regional area, Eddyville, KY (Western KY) had a outlet mall that is practically dead and buried.  There may be a couple of stores left out of dozens.  Edinburgh, IN has been doing well (between Columbus, IN and Indianapolis on I-65), but south of there outside of Seymour, another outlet mall has gone to that great concourse in the sky.  There is one that is outside of Evansville, IN (near US41 and I-64) that basically was platted in the late 80s, and never built other than a restaurant on the highway.

Outlet malls were a big thing for awhile. There's a small one in Carrollton, Ky., that doesn't have much left. The VF store is still there (I bought many pairs of Lee jeans and khakis there years ago) but I don't know if much else is open. There's also one in Dry Ridge that's doing better. A huge one in Georgetown is just a shell of itself. Ditto for one at Flatwoods, WV.

A new premium outlet mall has opened at Simpsonville, just west of Shelbyville and a few miles east of Louisville. It's become something of a destination.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on July 11, 2020, 03:37:26 PM
The Albertville outlet malls between the Twin Cities and St. Cloud is still doing pretty well as far as I know.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Sctvhound on July 12, 2020, 04:54:17 PM
SC has multiple outlet malls. Tanger Outlets (right by the Charleston airport) is a very successful one. I'd say one of the most successful maybe in the country. That outlet mall has basically taken the enclosed mall in our area, Citadel Mall, out of business.

Hilton Head and Myrtle Beach also have Tanger Outlets. Myrtle Beach has two right across from each other along with Hilton Head.

Santee (exit 98 on I-95) used to have an outlet mall, but it has closed down now. No stores operating at all. At one point it had 50 stores. Darien, GA also has a small outlet mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on July 13, 2020, 12:56:55 AM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 08, 2020, 10:46:27 PM
The Shoppes at Riverside near Aberdeen, Washington has a big hole in it.  Street View. (https://goo.gl/maps/GeP2Hu9nR3XpdELd7)

I went back in time using Historic Aerials:

1981 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/46.960573239955984/-123.80538789624039/1981/17): no store (open "pad")
1990 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/46.960573239955984/-123.80538789624039/1990/17): store built on the site
2006 (https://www.historicaerials.com/location/46.96053296648616/-123.80564241271779/2006/18): demolished, seemingly a while ago.
today: obviously still nothing there.

So that site was home to nothing, then something, and then nothing again lol.

Reminds me of the Sears at the Tacoma Mall. Both the last addition to the mall, and the first thing demolished as part of redevelopments.

EDIT: added another year.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 13, 2020, 08:28:23 AM
Quote from: Sctvhound on July 12, 2020, 04:54:17 PM
SC has multiple outlet malls. Tanger Outlets (right by the Charleston airport) is a very successful one. I'd say one of the most successful maybe in the country. That outlet mall has basically taken the enclosed mall in our area, Citadel Mall, out of business.

Hilton Head and Myrtle Beach also have Tanger Outlets. Myrtle Beach has two right across from each other along with Hilton Head.

Santee (exit 98 on I-95) used to have an outlet mall, but it has closed down now. No stores operating at all. At one point it had 50 stores. Darien, GA also has a small outlet mall.
I was wondering why it was dead there in Santee back in late September of 2017.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: EpicRoadways on July 13, 2020, 02:30:24 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on July 11, 2020, 03:37:26 PM
The Albertville outlet malls between the Twin Cities and St. Cloud is still doing pretty well as far as I know.
The older western end of the outlets by all indications is doing well and at least pre-covid was always PACKED. I just read somewhere that the newer (mid-2000s) eastern development separated by CSAH 19 is really struggling to attract any new businesses and has resorted to more local boutique-style storefronts as opposed to the national chains which in general have all either closed up shop or moved to the west side of the outlets.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: D-Dey65 on July 13, 2020, 04:20:03 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 09, 2020, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 09, 2020, 08:27:12 PM
Are outlet malls still a thing?  Or are those dying too?

Seems to depend a lot on the location.  I can think of a few that were dying prior to the pandemic.
The one in Santee, SC was dying before the turn of the millennium. My parents used to take road trips to visit my grandmother in Clearwater and they bragged about how great it was. The same goes for Smithfield, NC. When I saw it for the first time the whole place went bust. Smithfield still survived, but in my case, most of the stores I wanted to go to weren't open yet.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ibthebigd on July 15, 2020, 09:57:17 PM
The Daleville Indiana outlet mall in Indiana has been dead for a long time.

It's a shame it looked like a nice building compared to Georgetown Ky or Dry Ridge Ky.

SM-G950U

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: webny99 on July 15, 2020, 11:25:04 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on July 13, 2020, 12:56:55 AM
So that site was home to nothing, then something, and then nothing again lol.

The ultimate life cycle!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on December 18, 2020, 12:39:09 AM
I was on GSV and checking out Norfolk. I see Military Circle has no anchors.

I researched it and since 2016, there have been no big stores as Macy's was the last as Sears shut down in 2012.

So a mall without an anchor is a dead mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on December 19, 2020, 05:15:48 PM
Carolina East Mall is dead and it has been demolished in 2006. I've never got a chance to go there and there has been barely and news about it.

Have you guys heard about that mall before?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Roadgeek Adam on December 19, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
WHY ARE YOU YELLING?

[please don't use caps to yell]
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: US71 on December 19, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
Cross County Mall in Mattoon, IL is likely doomed. K-Mart left years ago and JC Penney has announced they will be closing early next year.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on December 19, 2020, 06:54:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeek Adam on December 19, 2020, 06:46:32 PM
WHY ARE YOU YELLING?

[please don't use caps to yell]
Ooh. I was typing when i was half-asleep. I'm gonna fix it
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on December 19, 2020, 07:02:50 PM
I forgot to mention, Vernon Park Mall too. What's the future of that mall gonna be? They said they will redevelop it but nothing happened lately.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on December 19, 2020, 11:51:31 PM
A decade ago, if you told someone in Richmond that Virginia Center Commons would close and be demolished and Regency Mall wouldn't, we'd all think you were crazy. Alas.
https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/henrico-county/construction-begins-virginia-center-commons-november-for-henrico-indoor-sports-center/
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: gonealookin on December 20, 2020, 12:15:38 AM
The New York Times had an article this week (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/style/auctioning-off-a-dead-mall.html) about the auctioning of some of the artifacts of a dead mall, in this case the Metrocenter in Phoenix.  Seems like some of this might be of interest to the sort of folks who collect things like highway signs.

QuoteTwo weeks ago, in Phoenix, auctioning began at the vacant Metrocenter mall, which closed in June, and will continue on a weekly basis through January. By then, the auctioneers expect to have listed about 1,000 lots.

So far their catalog has included a collection of 37 fire extinguishers (sold for $140); a neon Wetzel's Pretzels sign ($750); a large mall directory ($275); a security system of cages so large they can only be described as multi-human size ($325). Upcoming items include 25 food court tables; the plexiglass bins that held candy in a candy store; the contents of an empty Victoria's Secret; a lot of nine mannequin torsos (six female, three male).

While a majority of buyers at these auctions are surplus buyers and may be more interested in things like light fixtures and racks, EJ's Auction and Appraisal, which is running the Metrocenter purge, estimates about 30 percent are collectors.

"There is a very, very strong market for signage: anything neon and retro, but even the newer stuff has value on the collector market,"  said Erik Hoyer, the company's chief executive.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SectorZ on December 20, 2020, 12:26:32 PM
Quote from: gonealookin on December 20, 2020, 12:15:38 AM
The New York Times had an article this week (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/17/style/auctioning-off-a-dead-mall.html) about the auctioning of some of the artifacts of a dead mall, in this case the Metrocenter in Phoenix.  Seems like some of this might be of interest to the sort of folks who collect things like highway signs.

QuoteTwo weeks ago, in Phoenix, auctioning began at the vacant Metrocenter mall, which closed in June, and will continue on a weekly basis through January. By then, the auctioneers expect to have listed about 1,000 lots.

So far their catalog has included a collection of 37 fire extinguishers (sold for $140); a neon Wetzel's Pretzels sign ($750); a large mall directory ($275); a security system of cages so large they can only be described as multi-human size ($325). Upcoming items include 25 food court tables; the plexiglass bins that held candy in a candy store; the contents of an empty Victoria's Secret; a lot of nine mannequin torsos (six female, three male).

While a majority of buyers at these auctions are surplus buyers and may be more interested in things like light fixtures and racks, EJ's Auction and Appraisal, which is running the Metrocenter purge, estimates about 30 percent are collectors.

"There is a very, very strong market for signage: anything neon and retro, but even the newer stuff has value on the collector market,"  said Erik Hoyer, the company's chief executive.

Nice shout to the Retail Archaeology page in that story. Great youtube channel to follow for people following this thread.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on December 20, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
Quote from: Takumi on December 19, 2020, 11:51:31 PM
A decade ago, if you told someone in Richmond that Virginia Center Commons would close and be demolished and Regency Mall wouldn't, we'd all think you were crazy. Alas.
https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/henrico-county/construction-begins-virginia-center-commons-november-for-henrico-indoor-sports-center/
Same with the Chesterfield Mall in St. Louis; if you told me it's going to die before Mid Rivers back in 2013, I would've called you crazy. I grew up near that mall, and remembered it being busy all the time, especially on the weekends. A parking spot can sometimes take a while to find. Last time I went into the mall in 2013, I remember barely seeing any empty stores inside, and there's a carousel in the center of the mall. Just read what happened since then, Dillards closed, the AMC got downgraded to a "classic", whatever that means. Besides AMC, think what's left are Macy's, V-Stock and Cheesecake Factory, with almost nothing inside the mall besides those anchor stores.

Think West County and the Galleria are the only decent traditional malls left in the St. Louis area.

Also there's a subreddit that's dedicated to dead malls. Most of the pictures posted there are depressing for me to look at.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on December 20, 2020, 08:14:57 PM
I walked the Mesa Mall in Grand Junction yesterday.  For the Saturday before Xmas, I wouldn't say it was "packed", but it was brisk.

This, despite the mall looking about 60٪ occupied, with half of those stores either non-chain stores or stores that are only there for the holidays.

They still have 3 of 5 anchor stores (JCPenney/Cabelas/Target), and are getting a Home Goods store (surprisingly not opened by the holiday season) and allegedly a Dillard's in the former Sears footprint -- they razed the old Sears, but they have delayed the start of building the Dillards.

One reason why this mall is still breathing is that the next closest mall is 3-¹/² hours away (Denver or Salt Lake),  so it does attract a larger customer base with no other close options.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: I-55 on December 20, 2020, 10:24:36 PM
My mom would tell me how the Boaz, Alabama outlet mall used to be the big deal way back when. It's now mostly vacated with a few local businesses, a bowling alley, and a movie theatre.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Revive 755 on December 20, 2020, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on December 20, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
Same with the Chesterfield Mall in St. Louis; if you told me it's going to die before Mid Rivers back in 2013, I would've called you crazy. I grew up near that mall, and remembered it being busy all the time, especially on the weekends. A parking spot can sometimes take a while to find. Last time I went into the mall in 2013, I remember barely seeing any empty stores inside, and there's a carousel in the center of the mall. Just read what happened since then, Dillards closed, the AMC got downgraded to a "classic", whatever that means. Besides AMC, think what's left are Macy's, V-Stock and Cheesecake Factory, with almost nothing inside the mall besides those anchor stores.

Think West County and the Galleria are the only decent traditional malls left in the St. Louis area.

What about St. Clair Square and Plaza Frontenac?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on December 20, 2020, 10:59:22 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 20, 2020, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on December 20, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
Same with the Chesterfield Mall in St. Louis; if you told me it's going to die before Mid Rivers back in 2013, I would've called you crazy. I grew up near that mall, and remembered it being busy all the time, especially on the weekends. A parking spot can sometimes take a while to find. Last time I went into the mall in 2013, I remember barely seeing any empty stores inside, and there's a carousel in the center of the mall. Just read what happened since then, Dillards closed, the AMC got downgraded to a "classic", whatever that means. Besides AMC, think what's left are Macy's, V-Stock and Cheesecake Factory, with almost nothing inside the mall besides those anchor stores.

Think West County and the Galleria are the only decent traditional malls left in the St. Louis area.

What about St. Clair Square and Plaza Frontenac?
Overlooked Frontenac, but it's definitely doing well from what I heard. Not sure if I can compare it to the other malls I mentioned though, since this one is specifically tailored for luxury goods. First time I went to Frontenac, I thought it was a government building or something, because I have never seen a mall exterior like that.
I was looking only at the Missouri side, so didn't know about St. Clair Square
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on December 21, 2020, 10:35:17 AM
Quote from: Takumi on December 19, 2020, 11:51:31 PM
A decade ago, if you told someone in Richmond that Virginia Center Commons would close and be demolished and Regency Mall wouldn't, we'd all think you were crazy. Alas.
https://www.wric.com/news/local-news/henrico-county/construction-begins-virginia-center-commons-november-for-henrico-indoor-sports-center/

What a waste. VCC wasn't even 30 years old.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on December 22, 2020, 01:39:39 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on December 20, 2020, 10:59:22 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 20, 2020, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on December 20, 2020, 04:57:47 PM
Same with the Chesterfield Mall in St. Louis; if you told me it's going to die before Mid Rivers back in 2013, I would've called you crazy. I grew up near that mall, and remembered it being busy all the time, especially on the weekends. A parking spot can sometimes take a while to find. Last time I went into the mall in 2013, I remember barely seeing any empty stores inside, and there's a carousel in the center of the mall. Just read what happened since then, Dillards closed, the AMC got downgraded to a "classic", whatever that means. Besides AMC, think what's left are Macy's, V-Stock and Cheesecake Factory, with almost nothing inside the mall besides those anchor stores.

Think West County and the Galleria are the only decent traditional malls left in the St. Louis area.

What about St. Clair Square and Plaza Frontenac?
Overlooked Frontenac, but it's definitely doing well from what I heard. Not sure if I can compare it to the other malls I mentioned though, since this one is specifically tailored for luxury goods. First time I went to Frontenac, I thought it was a government building or something, because I have never seen a mall exterior like that.
I was looking only at the Missouri side, so didn't know about St. Clair Square

I saw this shot of Plaza Frontenac on Google Streeview. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6301,-90.4068116,3a,75y,282.7h,114.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG9tzrE5MXYpYey6quguCjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One thing to said is some mall should have imitated Plaza Frontenac. There's a mall in Thetford Mines, Quebec also called Frontenac and the Google streetview speaks for itself.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1124646,-71.3009465,3a,90y,341.5h,89.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5CFhf7YscHwBZVp6kSNm2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ftballfan on December 23, 2020, 11:01:44 AM
The Grand Rapids area has two decently healthy malls (Woodland Mall and RiverTown Crossings). For a while, it looked like Woodland was going downhill, especially before Sears closed. In the last few years, Woodland's owners have put a lot of $$ into the mall, adding Von Maur, Cheesecake Factory, REI, and Urban Outfitters, just to name a few. On the other hand, RiverTown has lost one anchor (Younkers) and is losing another (Sears).

Speaking of dead malls that have been redeveloped, the former Eastbrook Mall (which died not long after Woodland opened) has been redeveloped into a power center with shops such as TJ Maxx, Homegoods, Carhartt, Lands' End, Five Below, Dunham's Sports, Nordstrom Rack, Sierra Trading Post, DSW, Old Navy, and JoAnn Crafts. On Sunday, that parking lot was jammed and at least a couple of stores had lines to get in.
Quote from: thenetwork on December 20, 2020, 08:14:57 PM
I walked the Mesa Mall in Grand Junction yesterday.  For the Saturday before Xmas, I wouldn't say it was "packed", but it was brisk.

This, despite the mall looking about 60٪ occupied, with half of those stores either non-chain stores or stores that are only there for the holidays.

They still have 3 of 5 anchor stores (JCPenney/Cabelas/Target), and are getting a Home Goods store (surprisingly not opened by the holiday season) and allegedly a Dillard's in the former Sears footprint -- they razed the old Sears, but they have delayed the start of building the Dillards.

One reason why this mall is still breathing is that the next closest mall is 3-¹/² hours away (Denver or Salt Lake),  so it does attract a larger customer base with no other close options.
Another example of a mall mostly alive by isolation is Grand Traverse Mall in Traverse City, Michigan. That mall still has two of its opening day anchors (Target and JCPenney) and Macy's, which originally opened as Hudson's. TJ Maxx is also in the mall, but it has no outside entrance (unusual for a store of its type). Sears never made the move from Cherryland Mall, which is a dead mall and has been for years.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on December 24, 2020, 11:47:51 AM
I've noticed something with malls. A good portion of the sucessful malls in medium-large US cities have an Apple store. Take Columbus for example. Westland closed off 8 years ago, Eastland will probably close in the next year, Tuttle seems like it's going to close within the next few years. That leaves Easton and Polaris as the 2 dominant malls in Columbus, and both of them have an Apple store. Not saying that this is the main factor for why x malls are more successful than y malls (probably just a coincidence), but Apple stores are the most profitable per square foot.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: AlexandriaVA on December 24, 2020, 11:55:50 AM
I think your logic is backwards:

Apple stores go to high-income markets, where the local mall was likely to succeed because the local market was indeed high-income.

IOW, Apple doesn't create successful malls, it is attracted to them.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SectorZ on December 24, 2020, 12:30:02 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on December 23, 2020, 11:01:44 AM
TJ Maxx is also in the mall, but it has no outside entrance (unusual for a store of its type).

You'd be surprised how many TJX stores have no outside entrance, almost like a sub-anchor store. Marshalls in Danvers MA (Liberty Tree Mall) and the TJ Maxx/Homegoods in Worcester MA (now closed, Greendale Mall) are two examples I can think of off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on December 24, 2020, 01:34:43 PM
The TJ Maxx at Lansing Mall has an outside and mall entrance.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on December 24, 2020, 01:41:07 PM
Also I was at the Bay City Town Center(formerly Bay City Mall)  the other day and noticed that JCPenney has closed. As I was driving up to it I thought to myself I'm surprised this JCPenney hasn't closed yet and I walk up to the door and it said it was closed for good. It has a Dunham's, Marshall's, Ollie's Bargain Outlet and PetSmart still along with some vacant storefronts and the rest of the stores in the mall are typical mall stores.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: spooky on December 28, 2020, 02:33:56 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on December 24, 2020, 12:30:02 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on December 23, 2020, 11:01:44 AM
TJ Maxx is also in the mall, but it has no outside entrance (unusual for a store of its type).

You'd be surprised how many TJX stores have no outside entrance, almost like a sub-anchor store. Marshalls in Danvers MA (Liberty Tree Mall) and the TJ Maxx/Homegoods in Worcester MA (now closed, Greendale Mall) are two examples I can think of off the top of my head.

Marshall's in Weymouth MA is like this. There is an interior hallway like a mall in an otherwise strip-mall type shopping center.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on December 30, 2020, 10:59:47 AM
How is Menlo Park Mall doing in Edison, NJ holding?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on December 31, 2020, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on December 24, 2020, 11:47:51 AM
I've noticed something with malls. A good portion of the sucessful malls in medium-large US cities have an Apple store. Take Columbus for example. Westland closed off 8 years ago, Eastland will probably close in the next year, Tuttle seems like it's going to close within the next few years. That leaves Easton and Polaris as the 2 dominant malls in Columbus, and both of them have an Apple store. Not saying that this is the main factor for why x malls are more successful than y malls (probably just a coincidence), but Apple stores are the most profitable per square foot.

Eastland Mall is the best place to buy sneakers in the entire metro. I don't even bother with Polaris for sneakers because the selection at Eastland is just better. Tuttle is unlikely to close even in 10 years. A lot of people don't understand how empty a mall has to be to close. When Scarborough Mall actually closed it was down to one store. It went close to 10 years with just the R/C track, video game store, prom/wedding store, dollar theatre and comic shop.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on December 31, 2020, 10:48:29 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 30, 2020, 10:59:47 AM
How is Menlo Park Mall doing in Edison, NJ holding?
From the store selections, seems like there's enough foot traffic to warrant a Uniqlo and a recently renovated Apple Store
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on December 31, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
How's Eastland Center in Harper Woods, MI doing? I haven't been in that mall in years. The entire area surrounding the mall is a very violent part of Detroit and the mall has been the site of some shootings. We're talking about one of the first malls in the Detroit area (they were all named for their direction, Northland, Eastland, Westland and Southland. Northland has closed but the other three are still open.

But anyway this is a mall opened in 1957 so it was among the first wave of shopping malls built. A pretty large mall too (1.4 million square feet), it had Hudson's (who developed the mall) which is now Macy's, JCPenney was added many years later, MainStreet (A Chicago based store) which became Kohl's and then Target after Kohl's closed. A Montgomery Ward was added sometime in the 1990's before it closed with the rest of the chain in the late 90's, then JCP closed not long after that.

This mall didn't have a Sears until about 2003 or so when it opened in JCP's old spot. Then it went through numerous management changes after that and I remember that Target did a remodel of their store there sometime around 2005 and it also added a Burlington Coat Factory later in the decade. Sears closed around 2013, Macy's closed about 3 or 4 years ago, then Target and Burlington both closed not long after that.

The area of Harper Woods that it sits in borders Detroit and is among the most dangerous parts of the entire city. Harper Woods has become a total shithole the last 10-20 years and is starting to resemble cities such as Highland Park, River Rouge, Ecorse and other inner ring Detroit suburbs that have suffered the same fate over the last several years.

Today Eastland has a small food court with K&G Fashion Superstore and Shoppers World serving as the remaining anchors and some typical mall stores. I should go in there and see what it's like since I haven't been in Eastland in about 20 years but have been past it several times.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on December 31, 2020, 08:21:45 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 31, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
How's Eastland Center in Harper Woods, MI doing? I haven't been in that mall in years. The entire area surrounding the mall is a very violent part of Detroit and the mall has been the site of some shootings. We're talking about one of the first malls in the Detroit area (they were all named for their direction, Northland, Eastland, Westland and Southland. Northland has closed but the other three are still open.

But anyway this is a mall opened in 1957 so it was among the first wave of shopping malls built. A pretty large mall too (1.4 million square feet), it had Hudson's (who developed the mall) which is now Macy's, JCPenney was added many years later, MainStreet (A Chicago based store) which became Kohl's and then Target after Kohl's closed. A Montgomery Ward was added sometime in the 1990's before it closed with the rest of the chain in the late 90's, then JCP closed not long after that.

This mall didn't have a Sears until about 2003 or so when it opened in JCP's old spot. Then it went through numerous management changes after that and I remember that Target did a remodel of their store there sometime around 2005 and it also added a Burlington Coat Factory later in the decade. Sears closed around 2013, Macy's closed about 3 or 4 years ago, then Target and Burlington both closed not long after that.

The area of Harper Woods that it sits in borders Detroit and is among the most dangerous parts of the entire city. Harper Woods has become a total shithole the last 10-20 years and is starting to resemble cities such as Highland Park, River Rouge, Ecorse and other inner ring Detroit suburbs that have suffered the same fate over the last several years.

Today Eastland has a small food court with K&G Fashion Superstore and Shoppers World serving as the remaining anchors and some typical mall stores. I should go in there and see what it's like since I haven't been in Eastland in about 20 years but have been past it several times.
You know, South Florida sounds somewhat similar with Southland Mall (Cutler Bay) and Dadeland Mall (Kendall) both having opened in the early 60s. Except, on the other hand, that it took another decade for Westland Mall (Hialeah) to open.

Southland Mall, the first of the three South Florida directionally-named malls to open (in 1960), has lost half of its anchor tenants due to the retail apocalypse having a drastic effect on the average shopping mall. It should be noted that it was hit by Hurricane Andrew in 1992, and that made the mall look newer than it used to.

Dadeland Mall, which opened soon after (in 1962), just lost one of their half-dozen anchor tenants, but is otherwise doing well despite the pandemic. Around 1980, this particular mall would have not really been that safe per se, as a couple of incidents had taken place during that period.

Westland Mall, the third and final of these South Florida directionally-named malls to open (in 1971), also lost one of their three anchor tenants, but, like Dadeland Mall, is otherwise doing well despite the pandemic. Unlike the other two malls listed here, this one (miraculously enough) has not really had much in the way of incidents over the decades.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on January 01, 2021, 05:35:27 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on December 31, 2020, 08:21:45 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on December 31, 2020, 12:52:26 PM
How's Eastland Center in Harper Woods, MI doing? I haven't been in that mall in years. The entire area surrounding the mall is a very violent part of Detroit and the mall has been the site of some shootings. We're talking about one of the first malls in the Detroit area (they were all named for their direction, Northland, Eastland, Westland and Southland. Northland has closed but the other three are still open.

But anyway this is a mall opened in 1957 so it was among the first wave of shopping malls built. A pretty large mall too (1.4 million square feet), it had Hudson's (who developed the mall) which is now Macy's, JCPenney was added many years later, MainStreet (A Chicago based store) which became Kohl's and then Target after Kohl's closed. A Montgomery Ward was added sometime in the 1990's before it closed with the rest of the chain in the late 90's, then JCP closed not long after that.

This mall didn't have a Sears until about 2003 or so when it opened in JCP's old spot. Then it went through numerous management changes after that and I remember that Target did a remodel of their store there sometime around 2005 and it also added a Burlington Coat Factory later in the decade. Sears closed around 2013, Macy's closed about 3 or 4 years ago, then Target and Burlington both closed not long after that.

The area of Harper Woods that it sits in borders Detroit and is among the most dangerous parts of the entire city. Harper Woods has become a total shithole the last 10-20 years and is starting to resemble cities such as Highland Park, River Rouge, Ecorse and other inner ring Detroit suburbs that have suffered the same fate over the last several years.

Today Eastland has a small food court with K&G Fashion Superstore and Shoppers World serving as the remaining anchors and some typical mall stores. I should go in there and see what it's like since I haven't been in Eastland in about 20 years but have been past it several times.
You know, South Florida sounds somewhat similar with Southland Mall (Cutler Bay) and Dadeland Mall (Kendall) both having opened in the early 60s. Except, on the other hand, that it took another decade for Westland Mall (Hialeah) to open.

Southland Mall, the first of the three South Florida directionally-named malls to open (in 1960), has lost half of its anchor tenants due to the retail apocalypse having a drastic effect on the average shopping mall. It should be noted that it was hit by Hurricane Andrew in 1992, and that made the mall look newer than it used to.

Dadeland Mall, which opened soon after (in 1962), just lost one of their half-dozen anchor tenants, but is otherwise doing well despite the pandemic. Around 1980, this particular mall would have not really been that safe per se, as a couple of incidents had taken place during that period.

Westland Mall, the third and final of these South Florida directionally-named malls to open (in 1971), also lost one of their three anchor tenants, but, like Dadeland Mall, is otherwise doing well despite the pandemic. Unlike the other two malls listed here, this one (miraculously enough) has not really had much in the way of incidents over the decades.
For Detroit's
Northland opened in 1954, Eastland opened in 1957, Westland opened in 1965 and Southland opened in 1970. I've only actually been in Southland lately. At Southland the Macy's (originally Hudson's) is in the middle of the mall instead of on the end like an anchor usually is. If I remember correctly it was in the middle at Northland too. This mall never had a Sears store. None of the one's you mentioned sound as bad as Eastland Center in Harper Woods though. Actually Northland was located in a similar neighborhood, it sat at the corner of 8 Mile and Greenfield in Southfield and was directly across 8 Mile from Detroit but Eastland's neighborhood is worse. Southfield itself isn't the best of places either.

Southland is the only mall in the Detroit area that I can think of that hasn't lost an anchor store but it only has Macy's, JCPenney, Best Buy and a movie theater and is almost a million square feet. Summit Place Mall is another mall that has completely closed. That was located in Waterford Township on the NW corner of Telegraph and Elizabeth Lake Road. Summit Place has been completely demolished and the site is a big vacant lot. It died after Great Lakes Crossing in Auburn Hills opened in the late 90's and ironically Sears didn't closed until about 5 years after the mall closed.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OCGuy81 on February 05, 2021, 11:41:27 PM
I feel the clock is ticking on the Salem Center mall in Salem, OR. They lost their Nordstrom a few years ago, the JC Penny in 2020, and Macy's is the last anchor with talk of numerous store closures in 2021.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on February 06, 2021, 11:16:57 AM
Cary Towne Center in NC bit the dust last Sunday.

https://www.wral.com/cary-towne-center-closing-sunday-jan-31/19496757/ (https://www.wral.com/cary-towne-center-closing-sunday-jan-31/19496757/)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on February 07, 2021, 12:33:35 AM
Quote from: LM117 on February 06, 2021, 11:16:57 AM
Cary Towne Center in NC bit the dust last Sunday.

https://www.wral.com/cary-towne-center-closing-sunday-jan-31/19496757/ (https://www.wral.com/cary-towne-center-closing-sunday-jan-31/19496757/)
I did see a news article about that the other day. What a shame, had my family moved there, we'd have to deal with just another dead mall in the area.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on February 07, 2021, 11:42:33 AM
Grand Junction's Mesa Mall is having a Renaissance (at least on paper):

Cabellas took over the former Merwin's anchor space several years back.
Home Goods is just weeks from opening in the old Sports Authority spot.
Dillards is allegedly still planning to build on the former Sears location.
And just this week, it was announced that Dick's Sporting Goods was moving into the old Herberger's anchor spot.

Target is still chugging along.  Only JCPenney is on death watch.  So anchor-wise, Mesa Mall is stronger than most, but the smaller store vacancy rate is still over 50%.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on February 07, 2021, 03:37:48 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 05, 2021, 11:41:27 PM
I feel the clock is ticking on the Salem Center mall in Salem, OR. They lost their Nordstrom a few years ago, the JC Penny in 2020, and Macy's is the last anchor with talk of numerous store closures in 2021.

That's definitely sad. Downtown shopping is never good to lose.

Perhaps their new-ish logo (https://goo.gl/maps/96wF1WtpaQeMGB6x8) is scaring people away. Friggin' awful.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OCGuy81 on February 07, 2021, 03:53:05 PM
Lloyd Center in Portland may be dead soon as well. I remember first visiting Portland in the 90s, and they had an indoor ice arena. I saw Portland's sweetheart, Tonya Harding, there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on February 07, 2021, 04:58:35 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 05, 2021, 11:41:27 PM
I feel the clock is ticking on the Salem Center mall in Salem, OR. They lost their Nordstrom a few years ago, the JC Penny in 2020, and Macy's is the last anchor with talk of numerous store closures in 2021.
Same with Tri-County Mall in Cincinnati. Dillards closed in 2015, and Sears closed in 2018. Macy's is the last anchor, and it's planned to get closed this year.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on February 07, 2021, 06:21:50 PM
Downtown Seattle isn't faring much better. Pacific Place is operating at about 20% capacity, down from a high of...a lot more than that 20 years ago. Westlake Center is doing okay, from what I can tell, but I have no idea what their maximum occupancy is (there are currently 21 operating stores/restaurants, about 5 more than Pacific Place). The former Bon-Marche building, converted to a Macy's in 2005, closed last February. That was a big blow, especially to some of the older clientele in suburban Seattle, who often made trips downtown just to hit the major classic retailers and their huge stores (Macy's and Nordstrom being the big ones, but also Penny's until the 80s).

If I had to guess: leasing these downtown spaces is just getting obnoxiously expensive relative to revenue. Since they were previously operating fine, we have to assume either (A) lease costs have gotten out of hand, and/or (B) there is less people. My guess is both, but particularly (B); people in Seattle don't seem to care for big names, and people outside Seattle don't seem to like Seattle very much, at least not these days. Kind of a lethal combination.

It's easy to assume that online shopping (*cough*Amazon) is taking a toll, but these downtown shopping districts are designed to be destinations. People who normally shop online would normally take the time to go to these places for the experience. Something about the current experience, then, doesn't seem to be appealing to people.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: I-39 on February 07, 2021, 07:52:51 PM
Serious question. What major department store chain is NOT in danger of bankruptcy/liquidation. It seems almost all these malls listed have anchors that are in danger of collapse.

Heck, even Cool Springs Galleria here in Middle Tennessee is thriving, yet it has JCPenney, Macy's and Belk as anchors, all of which are in danger of going out of business.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on February 07, 2021, 09:45:09 PM
Quote from: LM117 on February 06, 2021, 11:16:57 AM
Cary Towne Center in NC bit the dust last Sunday.

https://www.wral.com/cary-towne-center-closing-sunday-jan-31/19496757/ (https://www.wral.com/cary-towne-center-closing-sunday-jan-31/19496757/)

So the building is being taken over by Epic Games? Epic Games as in Fortnite? What are they going to do with it?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ErmineNotyours on February 07, 2021, 11:17:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 07, 2021, 03:53:05 PM
Lloyd Center in Portland may be dead soon as well. I remember first visiting Portland in the 90s, and they had an indoor ice arena. I saw Portland’s sweetheart, Tonya Harding, there.

A year and a half ago I saw the George Tsutakawa designed Lloyd Center fountain for sale at an auction house in Renton, near Seattle.  This would mean that the mall is selling off its assets to stay solvent, redesigning itself into bigger and better things, or trying to redesign itself and failing.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50921190217_ec1c6dfd89_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kzJpMt)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on February 08, 2021, 07:35:44 AM
Dort Mall in Flint, Michigan is still hanging on with a few stores left in it. Paradise Express is probably the most popular store in the mall, there is also Star Brothers Coney Island in there but other than that there really isn't much. The mall is pretty well known for it's antique collection most of them are about automobiles and the area. This mall was built on the site of an old drive in theater and is the oldest mall in Genesee County, about 3 years older than Courtland Center and about 5 years older than Genesee Valley Mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: dfilpus on February 08, 2021, 10:06:08 AM
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 07, 2021, 09:45:09 PM
Quote from: LM117 on February 06, 2021, 11:16:57 AM
Cary Towne Center in NC bit the dust last Sunday.

https://www.wral.com/cary-towne-center-closing-sunday-jan-31/19496757/ (https://www.wral.com/cary-towne-center-closing-sunday-jan-31/19496757/)

So the building is being taken over by Epic Games? Epic Games as in Fortnite? What are they going to do with it?
They're building a consolidated headquarters.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on February 08, 2021, 09:53:52 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on February 07, 2021, 11:17:06 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 07, 2021, 03:53:05 PM
Lloyd Center in Portland may be dead soon as well. I remember first visiting Portland in the 90s, and they had an indoor ice arena. I saw Portland's sweetheart, Tonya Harding, there.

A year and a half ago I saw the George Tsutakawa designed Lloyd Center fountain for sale at an auction house in Renton, near Seattle.  This would mean that the mall is selling off its assets to stay solvent, redesigning itself into bigger and better things, or trying to redesign itself and failing.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50921190217_ec1c6dfd89_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kzJpMt)

A lot of malls are going for the minimalism trend. The idea is that all that flair they used to have is "distracting from product" and since minimalism was hot from 2003-2019 it was an easy decision. But somehow I think minimalism is hitting a wall due to COVID. People are really buying a lot of home decor right now. Spending all that time at home might have made them realize how boring their dwellings were inside. I was never a minimalist so not much changed for me.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Pink Jazz on February 09, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
Looks like Paradise Valley Mall in northeast Phoenix might soon be dead with only JCPenney and Costco as its anchors.  Surprisingly the area is affluent and the surrounding area is doing well.  Apparently Macerich failed to invest in the mall, and competition from other nearby malls such as Desert Ridge, Scottsdale Quarter, and Kierland Commons as well as Macerich's continued investment into Scottsdale Fashion Square is what hurt the mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OCGuy81 on February 09, 2021, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 09, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
Looks like Paradise Valley Mall in northeast Phoenix might soon be dead with only JCPenney and Costco as its anchors.  Surprisingly the area is affluent and the surrounding area is doing well.  Apparently Macerich failed to invest in the mall, and competition from other nearby malls such as Desert Ridge, Scottsdale Quarter, and Kierland Commons as well as Macerich's continued investment into Scottsdale Fashion Square is what hurt the mall.

I don't know if I've ever seen Costco as an anchor. Interesting!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on February 09, 2021, 01:44:41 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 09, 2021, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 09, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
Looks like Paradise Valley Mall in northeast Phoenix might soon be dead with only JCPenney and Costco as its anchors.  Surprisingly the area is affluent and the surrounding area is doing well.  Apparently Macerich failed to invest in the mall, and competition from other nearby malls such as Desert Ridge, Scottsdale Quarter, and Kierland Commons as well as Macerich's continued investment into Scottsdale Fashion Square is what hurt the mall.

I don't know if I've ever seen Costco as an anchor. Interesting!
Costco as an anchor is also new to me. Closest I've seen are a Costco across the street from both Easton and Polaris malls in Columbus.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hbelkins on February 09, 2021, 05:33:55 PM
There was a rumor recently that Florence Mall (home of the Florence Y'all water tower) was in danger of closing, but the mall addressed that in a social media post denying the truth of the tales.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on February 09, 2021, 05:58:11 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 09, 2021, 05:33:55 PM
There was a rumor recently that Florence Mall (home of the Florence Y'all water tower) was in danger of closing, but the mall addressed that in a social media post denying the truth of the tales.
Florence is one of the 2 Cincinnati area malls that are doing well, along with Kenwood. They only lost a Sears for anchors. Not sure why people would think that it's closing. Tri-county is going to lose their last anchor later this year and is the most likely to close at this point. I can't comment on Northgate or Eastgate, except that Eastgate has a nice little card shop I hope doesn't close entirely.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on February 09, 2021, 06:44:11 PM
People always say that about Florence. I was working there in 2008 and people kept asking me if it was going to close just because the parent company's share price went down.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kenarmy on February 09, 2021, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on January 25, 2011, 11:21:23 PM
The old Jackson Mall has now been converted into a medical complex known as the Jackson Medical Mall. At one time, the Department of Defense was look at the mall for a huge project that would've created 7,000 jobs here during the Clinton administration, but the idea was eventually scrapped. Another dying mall is across town at Metrocenter, but there are plans to revive it as a mixed-used development. In fact, the city of Jackson recently announced that a couple of city agencies will move into the space once occupied by Belk.

This aged terribly for metrocenter. It received a new owner in 2018/9 and everything was supposed to be good again, but with covid it got pushed back and I don't think anything will happen in the near future. Even some of the city offices moved out.. Oh and the new owner got convicted of fraud  :bigass: I guess I'll just continue to use Northpark and the outlets.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ErmineNotyours on February 11, 2021, 07:10:04 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 09, 2021, 01:44:41 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 09, 2021, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 09, 2021, 09:47:35 AM
Looks like Paradise Valley Mall in northeast Phoenix might soon be dead with only JCPenney and Costco as its anchors.  Surprisingly the area is affluent and the surrounding area is doing well.  Apparently Macerich failed to invest in the mall, and competition from other nearby malls such as Desert Ridge, Scottsdale Quarter, and Kierland Commons as well as Macerich's continued investment into Scottsdale Fashion Square is what hurt the mall.

I don't know if I've ever seen Costco as an anchor. Interesting!
Costco as an anchor is also new to me. Closest I've seen are a Costco across the street from both Easton and Polaris malls in Columbus.

The Supermall of Auburn, Washington had Sam's Club as an anchor.  It replaced the Incredible Universe that opened a year before the mall.  Later all Sam's Clubs left the area (hard to compete on Costco's home turf) and the mall has changed its name to the Outlet Collection.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on February 11, 2021, 09:25:40 PM
The Costco is de-attached from the mall. I just looked at it on GSV and it's indeed not attached to the mall but on wikipedia it's considered an anchor to the mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hotdogPi on February 12, 2021, 08:17:06 AM
Simon's most profitable mall per square foot in 2015 in the entire country, the Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, has two of its five anchors empty (although one of them had its last day on December 29 and might not have had enough time to be replaced). The mall's nowhere near dead, but if it's supposed to be the best (profit-wise) of all Simon malls...
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SectorZ on February 12, 2021, 09:35:03 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2021, 08:17:06 AM
Simon's most profitable mall per square foot in 2015 in the entire country, the Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, has two of its five anchors empty (although one of them had its last day on December 29 and might not have had enough time to be replaced). The mall's nowhere near dead, but if it's supposed to be the best (profit-wise) of all Simon malls...

Never knew that about the profitability, but it doesn't surprise me. I went up the Tuesday after Christmas (the day Lord & Taylor closed), and at noontime the mall looked like a Saturday afternoon before Christmas in non-pandemic times. The Pheasant Lane in Nashua by comparison has been much quieter.

It will be interesting to see how all the competing new retail on the former dogtrack land is going to affect it.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on February 12, 2021, 12:16:10 PM
I don't picture New Hampshire being over-malled in the way places like Ohio and Illinois were. That's probably helping the profitability.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: briantroutman on February 12, 2021, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 12, 2021, 12:16:10 PM
I don't picture New Hampshire being over-malled in the way places like Ohio and Illinois were. That's probably helping the profitability.

I think New Hampshire having a sales tax rate of 0% has more than a little to do with it.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on February 12, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2021, 08:17:06 AM
Simon's most profitable mall per square foot in 2015 in the entire country, the Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, has two of its five anchors empty (although one of them had its last day on December 29 and might not have had enough time to be replaced). The mall's nowhere near dead, but if it's supposed to be the best (profit-wise) of all Simon malls...

The Tacoma Mall, owned by Simon, seems pretty active to me. All four of its anchors are in-use. There was a fifth anchor, Sears, but it was demolished; they are building a new outdoor part of the mall and a theatre/cinema in its place.

How did you get your numbers?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hotdogPi on February 12, 2021, 02:03:08 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on February 12, 2021, 01:55:43 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2021, 08:17:06 AM
Simon's most profitable mall per square foot in 2015 in the entire country, the Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, has two of its five anchors empty (although one of them had its last day on December 29 and might not have had enough time to be replaced). The mall's nowhere near dead, but if it's supposed to be the best (profit-wise) of all Simon malls...

The Tacoma Mall, owned by Simon, seems pretty active to me. All four of its anchors are in-use. There was a fifth anchor, Sears, but it was demolished; they are building a new outdoor part of the mall and a theatre/cinema in its place.

How did you get your numbers?

Sales data is from the Wikipedia article on the mall. Closing date is because I was there on both the 29th and the 30th.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on February 12, 2021, 02:38:20 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

Generally speaking, quite well. Especially given WA's tighter lockdowns. University Village, Westfield Southcenter, and Bellevue Square seem to be the three big malls in the Seattle area right now, and all are doing great. No major vacancies in any, that I know of. Southcenter even has an operating Sears (Westfield is pretty good at securing leases from what I've seen). I do think Bellevue Square has a large unused suite on its south end, which was previously a Whole Foods 365 store.

There are three malls that I'm really uncertain about: Federal Way Commons, Factoria Mall, and Crossroads Bellevue. These three are more "neighborhood" malls than regional or super-regional malls, so they don't seem to attract as many people. South Hill Mall, down in Puyallup, is similar. It definitely struggles, having a persistently dead corridor on its western end. But unlike the first three, I know that this mall isn't doing well.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on February 12, 2021, 10:10:48 PM
People think "nobody's going to the mall right now because of the virus" but that's not the case at all. Our foot traffic is pretty much normal. The virus put emphasis on stuff rather than "experiences" since you can't do most of those. Now if you are selling apparel for white-collar jobs, yes that is down. And no fun for the prom store.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 10:18:47 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 12, 2021, 10:10:48 PM
People think "nobody's going to the mall right now because of the virus" but that's not the case at all. Our foot traffic is pretty much normal. The virus put emphasis on stuff rather than "experiences" since you can't do most of those. Now if you are selling apparel for white-collar jobs, yes that is down. And no fun for the prom store.
I went to Kenwood last year twice, once during the summer and once in December. Parking was hard to find both times, at least on the side facing US 22, which is the wing between the food court and Nordstrom, even with the virus.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SectorZ on February 13, 2021, 08:24:51 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on February 12, 2021, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on February 12, 2021, 12:16:10 PM
I don't picture New Hampshire being over-malled in the way places like Ohio and Illinois were. That's probably helping the profitability.

I think New Hampshire having a sales tax rate of 0% has more than a little to do with it.

NH has four shopping malls, at least in what you would call the classic modern shopping mall.

Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua. Part of the parking lot is in Tyngsboro, MA
The Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem, which is only a few miles from the border
Fox Run Mall in Newington, only a few miles access from Kittery, ME (which has a sales tax almost as bad as MA)
The Mall of New Hampshire in Manchester

3 of the 4 serve as a sales tax escape, while the other serves the most-populated city in the state.

I don't consider the Steeplegate Mall in Concord to be alive anymore. It's there, but over 3/4 empty.

Belmont, Bedford, and Conway at one time all had enclosed shopping malls, though they were quite small compared to the four still in existence. May be some other places too that had some that I just don't remember.

Nashua also at one point had two additional malls (and Salem one additional) that closed when the current malls beat them to a pulp.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on February 14, 2021, 12:49:35 PM
Greenville Mall seems to be losing businesses. I'm guessing it's because of the COVID-19 pandemic. THE DEATH OF SHOPPING MALLS ARE HERE!!!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on February 16, 2021, 12:25:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

To add to Jake's comment:

Alderwood in Lynnwood is still busy, but in the middle of major renovations (new apartments on the site of two former anchors) as it prepares for near-ish light rail in 2024. It'll have a few new tenants soon, including a Dave & Busters, on the site of the former Sears. With new housing going up in the neighborhood, it should be set for the long term.

Everett Mall is dying an undignified death, with its former Sears still empty and most activity limited to the outer edges.

Crossroads Bellevue is doing decently well, judging by how full the parking lot is when I pass by.

Totem Lake in Kirkland has completed half of its major rebuild into a town center, with more stuff on the way, and looks to be doing well.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on March 01, 2021, 12:18:11 AM
St Louis Outlets in Hazelwood, MO is totally dead.  Since 2019 it closed and a sports venue is taking its place if it hasn't opened already.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on March 09, 2021, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: Bruce on February 16, 2021, 12:25:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

To add to Jake's comment:

Alderwood in Lynnwood is still busy, but in the middle of major renovations (new apartments on the site of two former anchors) as it prepares for near-ish light rail in 2024. It'll have a few new tenants soon, including a Dave & Busters, on the site of the former Sears. With new housing going up in the neighborhood, it should be set for the long term.

Everett Mall is dying an undignified death, with its former Sears still empty and most activity limited to the outer edges.

Crossroads Bellevue is doing decently well, judging by how full the parking lot is when I pass by.

Totem Lake in Kirkland has completed half of its major rebuild into a town center, with more stuff on the way, and looks to be doing well.
Bit late on this, but is the "near-ish light rail" referring to the Lynwood station (at the Lynwood TC) or the Alderwood Mall station? I saw the Sound Transit LRT plans, and they have the Lynwood station as the northern terminus of the next phase after Northgate, and an Alderwood Mall station part of the phase after that. I might of missed it if those plans I saw are outdated and they recently merged the next phase with Lynwood to open in 2024.

Also curious to why the current line bypassed Southcenter and went directly to Tukwilla International. It gets pretty close to the mall that the line probably could've been realigned during planning to have a station at the mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on March 09, 2021, 04:23:29 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 09, 2021, 01:45:26 PM
Quote from: Bruce on February 16, 2021, 12:25:48 AM
Quote from: SkyPesos on February 12, 2021, 02:12:22 PM
Kind of wondering, how are Seattle area malls doing in general? I've been to Bellevue Square, Southcenter and University Village about 2 years ago, and those three look like they're doing well, at least pre-covid. Haven't been to Alderwood, but it looks fine too, besides the vacant former Sears spot. For dying malls, I know the Northgate area is getting redeveloped with the light rail extension. How about the other malls that I didn't mention in the Seattle area?

To add to Jake's comment:

Alderwood in Lynnwood is still busy, but in the middle of major renovations (new apartments on the site of two former anchors) as it prepares for near-ish light rail in 2024. It'll have a few new tenants soon, including a Dave & Busters, on the site of the former Sears. With new housing going up in the neighborhood, it should be set for the long term.

Everett Mall is dying an undignified death, with its former Sears still empty and most activity limited to the outer edges.

Crossroads Bellevue is doing decently well, judging by how full the parking lot is when I pass by.

Totem Lake in Kirkland has completed half of its major rebuild into a town center, with more stuff on the way, and looks to be doing well.
Bit late on this, but is the "near-ish light rail" referring to the Lynwood station (at the Lynwood TC) or the Alderwood Mall station? I saw the Sound Transit LRT plans, and they have the Lynwood station as the northern terminus of the next phase after Northgate, and an Alderwood Mall station part of the phase after that. I might of missed it if those plans I saw are outdated and they recently merged the next phase with Lynwood to open in 2024.

Also curious to why the current line bypassed Southcenter and went directly to Tukwilla International. It gets pretty close to the mall that the line probably could've been realigned during planning to have a station at the mall.

I'm referring to Lynnwood City Center Station, which is being built at the current transit center and will open in 2024 as the terminus of the Lynnwood Extension. The Alderwood station is part of the Everett Extension that will open in the 2030s (originally 2036, but then COVID) and has no set location yet.

The current line was supposed to follow Tukwila Intl Blvd (former SR 99) on a surface alignment, until Tukwila forced it onto the freeway. Sound Transit looked at trying to serve Southcenter, but there would be a long detour through rough terrain for "little benefit", so it was skipped. There have been a few studies looking at an east-west Burien-Renton line with a Southcenter stop, but it was not included in the ST3 package as light rail, but just express "BRT" that bypasses Southcenter.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on March 14, 2021, 03:37:13 PM
Even the Greenville Mall is dying. We lost stores, a cookie stand, but you can blame the pandemic for it.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on March 15, 2021, 08:13:09 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 14, 2021, 03:37:13 PM
Even the Greenville Mall is dying. We lost stores, a cookie stand, but you can blame the pandemic for it.
I don't see the loss of anchor tenant(s).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on March 15, 2021, 10:22:57 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on March 14, 2021, 03:37:13 PM
Even the Greenville Mall is dying. We lost stores, a cookie stand, but you can blame the pandemic for it.
Looks strange seeing a Michigan based business that I didn't know was that big (Dunham's Sports).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hbelkins on May 03, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
I drove past a dead mall yesterday. The Kyova Mall on US 60 outside Ashland. I don't even know if any stores are open in the place. You can see the shadows from Elder-Beerman signage on the outside of the building.

And then I went to a mall that is very much alive. The Ashland Town Center. I was going to a business that happened to be located in the mall. First time I had been inside a mall in years. It appeared to be thriving. Anchors are JC Penney, Belk, and TJ Maxx. I only saw one vacant store in the building.

While there, I went in a FYE store for the first time. I thought I heard that they were going out of business. With the prices FYE charges, I can see why. They were asking $17.99 for an old Rush "A Farewell to Kings" CD that has been available for less than $10 for years.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on May 03, 2021, 07:27:26 PM
FYE's business model is switching more to "merch" at most locations and away from ordinary physical media like CDs and DVDs. That means fewer, larger stores located in high-income areas such as their stores at Dayton Mall and Polaris Fashion Place since it's hard to find people that will spend a ton of money on Harley Quinn statues and $100 special edition vinyl records. I am a bit surprised that the Ashland Town Center location is still there since from what I remember it's not in a large space. What could be going on there is a pretty serious lack of competition in the vicinity. The Pied Piper that was across from the mall is long gone now.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on May 03, 2021, 07:27:26 PM
FYE's business model is switching more to "merch" at most locations and away from ordinary physical media like CDs and DVDs. That means fewer, larger stores located in high-income areas such as their stores at Dayton Mall and Polaris Fashion Place since it's hard to find people that will spend a ton of money on Harley Quinn statues and $100 special edition vinyl records. I am a bit surprised that the Ashland Town Center location is still there since from what I remember it's not in a large space. What could be going on there is a pretty serious lack of competition in the vicinity. The Pied Piper that was across from the mall is long gone now.

Wow, I'm surprised they were actually still in business.  I haven't visited any mall in quite a long time, but I figured they'd have gone the way of Sam Goody at least a decade ago.

On that note, does anybody think Best Buy may not be long for this world?  Every time I've visited one in the last few years, they're very vacant.  Perhaps they'll just downsize their stores?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Scott5114 on May 03, 2021, 09:02:40 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on May 03, 2021, 07:27:26 PM
FYE's business model is switching more to "merch" at most locations and away from ordinary physical media like CDs and DVDs. That means fewer, larger stores located in high-income areas such as their stores at Dayton Mall and Polaris Fashion Place since it's hard to find people that will spend a ton of money on Harley Quinn statues and $100 special edition vinyl records. I am a bit surprised that the Ashland Town Center location is still there since from what I remember it's not in a large space. What could be going on there is a pretty serious lack of competition in the vicinity. The Pied Piper that was across from the mall is long gone now.

That's basically the business model Hastings was going for...until they went out of business.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on May 03, 2021, 09:18:03 PM
I'm surprised some malls are still open as a mall let alone stores inside the mall. I haven't been to Fashion Square Mall in Saginaw lately but that has been a dying mall for years. It lost Sears a few years ago but the two other anchors are holding on as far as I know (Macy's and JCPenney). Many of the stores in the mall were empty last time I was in there and I'm guessing it's probably worse by now.

I was in Midland Mall not too long ago and that mall just has a Target holding on as an anchor. It use to have Sears, Younkers and JCPenney as well. There are several empty storefronts in that mall. It also has a Barnes & Noble if that means anything.

Bay City Town Center I think has lost all hope as it has no anchor stores left. JCPenney, Target, Younkers and Sears have all closed. It has an Ollie's Bargain Outlet and Petsmart on the outside of the mall with no mall entrance to either store. I'm guessing this mall's fate is almost sealed and it was always one of the lowest profitable malls. The mall is only about 30 years old. Bay City has a population of about 32,000. Also heard that City Market in downtown Bay City will be closing, that's a marketplace with vendors so not sure what happened there.

Flint Farmers Market in Flint is the premier marketplace in Mid Michigan.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on May 03, 2021, 09:31:57 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on May 03, 2021, 07:27:26 PM
FYE's business model is switching more to "merch" at most locations and away from ordinary physical media like CDs and DVDs. That means fewer, larger stores located in high-income areas such as their stores at Dayton Mall and Polaris Fashion Place since it's hard to find people that will spend a ton of money on Harley Quinn statues and $100 special edition vinyl records. I am a bit surprised that the Ashland Town Center location is still there since from what I remember it's not in a large space. What could be going on there is a pretty serious lack of competition in the vicinity. The Pied Piper that was across from the mall is long gone now.

Wow, I'm surprised they were actually still in business.  I haven't visited any mall in quite a long time, but I figured they'd have gone the way of Sam Goody at least a decade ago.


It looks like they're down to about 10-12 locations in Ohio whereas 10 years ago they were in all the smaller towns like Portsmouth, Lancaster and Chillicothe. All of those are gone. And all of the fully-functioning malls in larger cities, not just one or two. Cincinnati doesn't have any now unless you include Florence Mall in Northern Kentucky.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: catch22 on May 03, 2021, 09:40:54 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
You can see the shadows from Elder-Beerman signage on the outside of the building.

In dead mall jargon, that's known as a "labelscar."
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on May 03, 2021, 09:43:29 PM
Carolina East Mall
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: webny99 on May 03, 2021, 10:03:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 03, 2021, 07:20:53 PM
I drove past a dead mall yesterday. ...

That's an everyday occurrence (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1963325,-77.5693568,3a,75y,350.18h,79.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx8ThmDhyd3FYCX81Yho8AA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) for commuters on NY 104 in Irondequoit...
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on May 03, 2021, 10:03:18 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
On that note, does anybody think Best Buy may not be long for this world?  Every time I've visited one in the last few years, they're very vacant.  Perhaps they'll just downsize their stores?
I know they're pretty generous with price matching in recent years, especially with matching prices on Amazon.

Though the one computer store I really would like to survive for longer is Micro Center. They have some of the best prices I can find for PC parts out there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on May 03, 2021, 10:46:20 PM
Sears signage is still up to this day at Fashion Square Mall it's been closed since October 2019. The old Auto Center is being used as a Covid test site.

I think the entire mall should be demolished and redeveloped as an open air shopping mall. The parking lot is in really bad shape as well and the outparcels are empty for the most part.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Revive 755 on May 03, 2021, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
On that note, does anybody think Best Buy may not be long for this world?  Every time I've visited one in the last few years, they're very vacant.  Perhaps they'll just downsize their stores?

Maybe I'm just visiting during the busier hours, but the ones I've visited in the past few months in northern Illinois seem to be fairly busy still.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 04, 2021, 12:08:49 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 03, 2021, 10:59:09 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
On that note, does anybody think Best Buy may not be long for this world?  Every time I've visited one in the last few years, they're very vacant.  Perhaps they'll just downsize their stores?

Maybe I'm just visiting during the busier hours, but the ones I've visited in the past few months in northern Illinois seem to be fairly busy still.
OTOH, the one up in Arlington (Jacksonville) closed earlier this year. The Regency Square Mall is a much-noted dead mall, with the St. Johns Town Center just below it, killing off the dead mall to its north. OTOH, the Avenues mall is not dead, despite the St. Johns Town Center not far away. Also, compared to the crappy Arlington Expressway (which includes the formerly-named-and tolled Union Street Expressway plus the dreaded Mathews Bridge), the JTB (aka Butler Boulevard aka SR 202, used to be tolled as well and has the infamous wobbly bridge across the Intracoastal Waterway) is newer and still has development springing off of it. Plus rich folk are buying up luxury homes over at the Beaches.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 12:17:55 AM
Heard Woodbridge Mall in NJ is declining. I hear both Sears and Lord & Taylor are vacant as no one moved in yet.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on May 04, 2021, 12:18:40 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 12:17:55 AM
Heard Woodbridge Mall in NJ is declining. I hear both Sears and Lord & Taylor are vacant as no one moved in yet.
I can say that I'm not really surprised. Then again Quaker Bridge Mall is now a dump, so what else is new.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 12:42:56 AM
Or are you talking about Livingston Mall, NJ.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
Livingston Mall lost 2 of its anchors as well. Covid killed Lord and Taylor while Lampert killed Sears.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 07:52:03 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
Livingston Mall lost 2 of its anchors as well. Covid killed Lord and Taylor while Lampert killed Sears.
wonder what's going to take over those 2 anchors.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 10:05:54 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 07:52:03 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
Livingston Mall lost 2 of its anchors as well. Covid killed Lord and Taylor while Lampert killed Sears.
wonder what's going to take over those 2 anchors.

Good question. Just like who will take over the two in Woodbridge as well.

I see nearby in Short Hills had no problem, but then again the Mall at Short Hills is a different world. It's clientele is upscale and most people who shop there make 100K or more annually, so that mall will never die anytime soon.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 11:27:57 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 10:05:54 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on May 04, 2021, 07:52:03 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
Livingston Mall lost 2 of its anchors as well. Covid killed Lord and Taylor while Lampert killed Sears.
wonder what's going to take over those 2 anchors.

Good question. Just like who will take over the two in Woodbridge as well.

I see nearby in Short Hills had no problem, but then again the Mall at Short Hills is a different world. It's clientele is upscale and most people who shop there make 100K or more annually, so that mall will never die anytime soon.
But my dad hates going there.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on May 04, 2021, 11:36:41 AM
I only visited Short Hills once. I didn't like it as it was too snobbish and all clothing and shoes. No fast food or typical mall novelty item stores. Even Abraham and Strauss didn't use it's abbreviations like they did in Woodbridge due to upper class mentality. A & S is not correct, among the high end society. It's all proper names in their way of speech.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on May 05, 2021, 12:09:54 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on May 03, 2021, 10:03:18 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
On that note, does anybody think Best Buy may not be long for this world?  Every time I've visited one in the last few years, they're very vacant.  Perhaps they'll just downsize their stores?
I know they're pretty generous with price matching in recent years, especially with matching prices on Amazon.


Of course they do. Amazon prices are just MSRP. Amazon just seems cheaper to people since there's so much low-end garbage on there that stores can't sell since that crap would hurt a regular store's reputation too much. But since Amazon is infallible to so many people a cheap trinket doesn't change perceptions of Amazon.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on May 05, 2021, 10:48:31 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
On that note, does anybody think Best Buy may not be long for this world?  Every time I've visited one in the last few years, they're very vacant.  Perhaps they'll just downsize their stores?

I was a bit shocked when I found out that both Best Buy and Office Max closed their next door to each other stores at WI 441/Calumet St on the southeast side of Appleton, WI last fall.  It is amazing how hard it is to find a decent, economical four color laser printer on a store shelf these days.

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on May 06, 2021, 07:39:12 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 07:31:36 PM
On that note, does anybody think Best Buy may not be long for this world?  Every time I've visited one in the last few years, they're very vacant.  Perhaps they'll just downsize their stores?

This is actually the first I've heard of someone lacking confidence in Best Buy, at least in recent memory. The Seattle-area locations remain fairly busy, and they've actually managed to remain quite relevant through decently-competitive pricing and, importantly, price-matching almost every competitor (as pointed out above). Their selections will never be Amazon-level, at least in-store, but with the price-matching, it is easy enough to pretend you're shopping on Amazon but with same-day delivery. Logistically, Amazon is a ways off with same-day delivery for most of their stock, so retail stores like Best Buy will remain relevant probably for a long time.

Quote from: GCrites80s on May 05, 2021, 12:09:54 PM
Amazon just seems cheaper to people since there's so much low-end garbage on there that stores can't sell since that crap would hurt a regular store's reputation too much. But since Amazon is infallible to so many people a cheap trinket doesn't change perceptions of Amazon.

This is why regular retail stores will remain in business for a long time. At the end of the day, Amazon isn't just halving the regular price of goods. Most of the time, it's not necessarily cheaper at all, especially among major products that people might go to, say, Best Buy for.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 07, 2021, 03:24:04 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on May 05, 2021, 12:09:54 PM

Of course they do. Amazon prices are just MSRP. Amazon just seems cheaper to people since there's so much low-end garbage on there that stores can't sell since that crap would hurt a regular store's reputation too much. But since Amazon is infallible to so many people a cheap trinket doesn't change perceptions of Amazon.


Some of these prices are due to the agreement with the manufacturer's Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) that the retailer agreed to comply with in order to sell their product.  Selling below the MAP jeopardizes the retailer's agreement with the manufacturer to sell their product.  MAP generally doesn't apply to gray market goods (goods sold outside the manufacturer's authorized retail channels), but buying gray market goods may void warranties.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on May 07, 2021, 03:48:41 PM
I remember back in the catalog and magazine days if an advertiser was selling below MAP they would put "Call" instead of a price next to an item. Of course Amazon doesn't want anyone calling them these days.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Pink Jazz on May 07, 2021, 04:27:09 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on May 07, 2021, 03:48:41 PM
I remember back in the catalog and magazine days if an advertiser was selling below MAP they would put "Call" instead of a price next to an item. Of course Amazon doesn't want anyone calling them these days.


Some retailers use "Lowest price shown in cart" as a loophole around the MAP policy, since the price doesn't get shown until a user adds the item to their cart.  Whether or not this is a valid loophole is yet to be tested.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Angelo71 on May 07, 2021, 04:30:26 PM
I don't know if anyone has talked about this, but gross Pittsburgh has a disgusting dead mall and almost a second deal mall. Century Three and probably soon Monroeville. The senile decrepit town is just continuing to die. Even its own news station said how poorly it is run, and it won't ever change. The government needs to relocate everyone who lives there and erase the town, and every trace of it. Sorry for my unwanted opinion*
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on May 07, 2021, 04:41:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on May 07, 2021, 04:30:26 PM
I don't know if anyone has talked about this, but gross Pittsburgh has a disgusting dead mall and almost a second deal mall. Century Three and probably soon Monroeville. The senile decrepit town is just continuing to die. Even its own news station said how poorly it is run, and it won't ever change. The government needs to relocate everyone who lives there and erase the town, and every trace of it. Sorry for my unwanted opinion*

Would the Pittsburgh area improve any if all of the munis in Allegheny County, including Pittsburgh, would be merged into a single city?

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 07, 2021, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on May 07, 2021, 04:30:26 PM
I don't know if anyone has talked about this, but gross Pittsburgh has a disgusting dead mall and almost a second deal mall. Century Three and probably soon Monroeville. The senile decrepit town is just continuing to die. Even its own news station said how poorly it is run, and it won't ever change. The government needs to relocate everyone who lives there and erase the town, and every trace of it. Sorry for my unwanted opinion*

I think Monroeville was the mall seen in the movie Zack and Miri.  It took place in Monroeville, though I'm not sure the mall they worked at was the one you mentioned or not.  If so, it looked bad back then, and I think the movie is about 12 years old now.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
I don't see what's wrong with Monroeville, Pennsylvania I've been there before. Now Wilkinsburg I didn't care for that place.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on May 07, 2021, 07:03:00 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 07, 2021, 06:44:27 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on May 07, 2021, 04:30:26 PM
I don't know if anyone has talked about this, but gross Pittsburgh has a disgusting dead mall and almost a second deal mall. Century Three and probably soon Monroeville. The senile decrepit town is just continuing to die. Even its own news station said how poorly it is run, and it won't ever change. The government needs to relocate everyone who lives there and erase the town, and every trace of it. Sorry for my unwanted opinion*

I think Monroeville was the mall seen in the movie Zack and Miri.  It took place in Monroeville, though I'm not sure the mall they worked at was the one you mentioned or not.  If so, it looked bad back then, and I think the movie is about 12 years old now.

It was in Zack and Miri. But nothing compares to its feature in the original Dawn of the Dead from 1978. I'm sure it's most well known today for that over anything else. As it should be, frankly.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
It doesn't beat Dixie Square Mall in Harvey, Illinois with the scene from The Blues Brothers .
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on May 07, 2021, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
It doesn't beat Dixie Square Mall in Harvey, Illinois with the scene from The Blues Brothers .

For that brief scene in Blues Brothers, yes. But Monroeville Mall was a huge part of Dawn of the Dead. It was as much a star of the film as any of the cast members.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on May 08, 2021, 11:05:47 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 07, 2021, 09:36:22 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 09:24:54 PM
It doesn't beat Dixie Square Mall in Harvey, Illinois with the scene from The Blues Brothers .

For that brief scene in Blues Brothers, yes. But Monroeville Mall was a huge part of Dawn of the Dead. It was as much a star of the film as any of the cast members.
I became a fan of Dixie Square Mall because of its abandonment and condition it was in before it was demolished. For some reason I like dead malls.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Angelo71 on May 08, 2021, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
I don't see what's wrong with Monroeville, Pennsylvania I've been there before. Now Wilkinsburg I didn't care for that place.
Monroeville is fine but murraysville is better. Most of the Pittsburgh greater area is so gross. But the eastern areas are disgusting! Go to north Versailles and McKeesport and they are disgusting. And you can't tell me rankin or Braddock are any better!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on May 09, 2021, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on May 08, 2021, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
I don't see what's wrong with Monroeville, Pennsylvania I've been there before. Now Wilkinsburg I didn't care for that place.
Monroeville is fine but murraysville is better. Most of the Pittsburgh greater area is so gross. But the eastern areas are disgusting! Go to north Versailles and McKeesport and they are disgusting. And you can't tell me rankin or Braddock are any better!
What do you mean by so gross?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on May 25, 2021, 01:36:09 PM
Currently walking around Saginaw's Fashion Square Mall. I counted 45 stores in the mall in a mall that has capacity for over 100 stories. The corridor we're the main entrances is totally vacant of any stores.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: CoreySamson on May 25, 2021, 01:52:01 PM
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this but Cortana Mall in Baton Rouge looks to be basically dead. I remember walking around in it about 10 years ago and seeing a lot of abandoned stores. I think my dad remarked that it was on the decline, but it appears to be gone now. The Mall of Louisiana has really lead to Cortana's demise (admittedly, the Mall of Louisiana is probably the best mall I've been in, and Cortana was not).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on May 28, 2021, 08:32:31 PM
Lloyd Center in Portland isn't doing too well:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/nmi8w6/the_most_dead_mall_of_portland/
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hbelkins on May 30, 2021, 09:57:51 PM
Drove by Mercer Mall near Bluefield, WV today. Best as I could tell from the road (US 460) it appeared dead.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on May 30, 2021, 10:31:11 PM
I walked around Genesee Valley Center in Flint a little bit today. It seems to be doing a little better than Fashion Square Mall in Saginaw with more stores. The food court however only has two places open.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: OCGuy81 on June 04, 2021, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 30, 2021, 10:31:11 PM
I walked around Genesee Valley Center in Flint a little bit today. It seems to be doing a little better than Fashion Square Mall in Saginaw with more stores. The food court however only has two places open.

We could probably do a whole sub topic on the food courts! Even the malls that are still around, it seems food courts are a shell of their glory days.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on June 05, 2021, 10:54:36 AM
When malls open up a lot of times at first there's nothing around them. Then as restaurants and fast food open up around them the food court starts to die.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 05, 2021, 11:44:22 AM
The least profitable mall in this area has to be Bay City Town Center (use to be called Bay City Mall). It has lost all it's anchor stores and has no food court anymore either it was removed for a PetSmart that only has an outside entrance. Half of the old Sears became an Ollie's Bargain Outlet and also only has an outside entrance. Use to have a Sears, Younkers, JCPenney and Target.

I went into the Midland Mall the other day which only has a Target left for an anchor and many vacancies as well. Use to have a Sears, JCPenney, Target and Younkers. Midland Mall's Food Court seems to be doing ok it had the most restaurants out of any of the malls I've mentioned in my previous posts and also has a sit down restaurant, use to be Ruby Tuesday but now is Alex's Railside Restaurant. Alex's use to be located in Sanford along the Rail Trail which is why it's called Railside but after the floods from the dam's failing last year they got flooded out and relocated to Ruby Tuesday's old spot in Midland Mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on June 05, 2021, 11:53:28 AM
It's hard to criticize any particular mall for losing Sears when a Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Kohl's, Menard's and a Harbor Freight all opened up right next to the mall. Or within 1 mile of it. That could be over 600,000 square feet of the exact stuff Sears sold in their 80,000-100,000 sqft space. With a Pep Boys, Valvoline Instant Oil Change and Discount Tire around the corner.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jeffandnicole on June 05, 2021, 12:10:03 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 05, 2021, 11:53:28 AM
It's hard to criticize any particular mall for losing Sears when a Wal-Mart, Lowe's, Kohl's, Menard's and a Harbor Freight all opened up right next to the mall. Or within 1 mile of it. That could be over 600,000 square feet of the exact stuff Sears sold in their 80,000-100,000 sqft space. With a Pep Boys, Valvoline Instant Oil Change and Discount Tire around the corner.

And the Town or County's zoning planning allowed all of this to happen!
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thspfc on June 05, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
At this point malls should be celebrating when their Sears goes out of business. Poorly run company stuck in the past.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 05, 2021, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 05, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
At this point malls should be celebrating when their Sears goes out of business. Poorly run company stuck in the past.
I guess I could be said for Kmart too. I mean yeah same company but they are totally stuck in the past.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 05, 2021, 07:04:47 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 05, 2021, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 05, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
At this point malls should be celebrating when their Sears goes out of business. Poorly run company stuck in the past.
I guess I could be said for Kmart too. I mean yeah same company but they are totally stuck in the past.

And that's a warning tale to Wal-Mart and Target if they want to avoid to fall in the same traps althought in the case of Target when they aquired Zellers stores in Canada. They completely screwed things.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 05, 2021, 07:24:55 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 05, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
At this point malls should be celebrating when their Sears goes out of business. Poorly run company stuck in the past.
Honestly another thing. When the Sears in Genesee Valley closed and then the next year the one in Fashion Square closed my first thought with both Sears locations was ABOUT TIME.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 05, 2021, 07:25:38 PM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on June 05, 2021, 07:04:47 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 05, 2021, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 05, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
At this point malls should be celebrating when their Sears goes out of business. Poorly run company stuck in the past.
I guess I could be said for Kmart too. I mean yeah same company but they are totally stuck in the past.

And that's a warning tale to Wal-Mart and Target if they want to avoid to fall in the same traps althought in the case of Target when they aquired Zellers stores in Canada. They completely screwed things.
Around here Meijer blows Walmart away.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 05, 2021, 08:37:14 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 09, 2021, 07:07:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on May 08, 2021, 11:23:22 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 07, 2021, 06:46:56 PM
I don't see what's wrong with Monroeville, Pennsylvania I've been there before. Now Wilkinsburg I didn't care for that place.
Monroeville is fine but murraysville is better. Most of the Pittsburgh greater area is so gross. But the eastern areas are disgusting! Go to north Versailles and McKeesport and they are disgusting. And you can't tell me rankin or Braddock are any better!
What do you mean by so gross?

I guess a picture is worth a 1000 words about Braddock, McKeesport.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKdNERIJ0_w

Could be possible then McKeesport and Braddock see some transformations like Harlem did as shown in these photos posted on Skyscraperpage?
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149448
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: I-39 on June 05, 2021, 11:14:58 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 05, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
At this point malls should be celebrating when their Sears goes out of business. Poorly run company stuck in the past.

Really is a shame. Sears should still be a major retailer, but arrogant and incompetent management did them in. They missed numerous chances to right the ship and reinvent themselves.


Quote from: Stephane Dumas on June 05, 2021, 07:04:47 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 05, 2021, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: thspfc on June 05, 2021, 02:54:39 PM
At this point malls should be celebrating when their Sears goes out of business. Poorly run company stuck in the past.
I guess I could be said for Kmart too. I mean yeah same company but they are totally stuck in the past.
And that's a warning tale to Wal-Mart and Target if they want to avoid to fall in the same traps althought in the case of Target when they aquired Zellers stores in Canada. They completely screwed things.

Both Walmart and Target are being proactive in adapting for the future, they'll be fine as long as they don't pull a Sears and stop innovating.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jeffandnicole on June 06, 2021, 12:05:51 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on June 04, 2021, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on May 30, 2021, 10:31:11 PM
I walked around Genesee Valley Center in Flint a little bit today. It seems to be doing a little better than Fashion Square Mall in Saginaw with more stores. The food court however only has two places open.

We could probably do a whole sub topic on the food courts! Even the malls that are still around, it seems food courts are a shell of their glory days.

At my local mall, the food court was built well after the mall opened. In fact, when they added a fourth anchor is when they added a food court as well.

Prior to that, they had about 4 or 5 restaurants scattered around the mall. One before my time was a bar that apparently got fairly rowdy at night. The drinking age was 18 at the time, probably adding to that atmosphere.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 06, 2021, 06:42:53 AM
My local mall (Fashion Square) also had the food court open well after the mall was open. The area where the food court is use to be a department store called Wiechmann's. There was a York Steakhouse in the mall before the food court opened as well as a Big Boy which became Ruby Tuesday but is now empty. The York Steakhouse spot became Payless Shoes and is also now empty.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Urban Prairie Schooner on June 08, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 25, 2021, 01:52:01 PM
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this but Cortana Mall in Baton Rouge looks to be basically dead. I remember walking around in it about 10 years ago and seeing a lot of abandoned stores. I think my dad remarked that it was on the decline, but it appears to be gone now. The Mall of Louisiana has really lead to Cortana's demise (admittedly, the Mall of Louisiana is probably the best mall I've been in, and Cortana was not).

As we speak, Cortana is being demolished for an Amazon warehouse/fulfillment center.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SkyPesos on June 08, 2021, 10:36:08 PM
Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on June 08, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 25, 2021, 01:52:01 PM
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this but Cortana Mall in Baton Rouge looks to be basically dead. I remember walking around in it about 10 years ago and seeing a lot of abandoned stores. I think my dad remarked that it was on the decline, but it appears to be gone now. The Mall of Louisiana has really lead to Cortana's demise (admittedly, the Mall of Louisiana is probably the best mall I've been in, and Cortana was not).

As we speak, Cortana is being demolished for an Amazon warehouse/fulfillment center.
I wish the same would happen to Microsoft's Cortana too  :bigass:
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on June 08, 2021, 10:48:35 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on June 08, 2021, 10:36:08 PM
Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on June 08, 2021, 09:47:45 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on May 25, 2021, 01:52:01 PM
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this but Cortana Mall in Baton Rouge looks to be basically dead. I remember walking around in it about 10 years ago and seeing a lot of abandoned stores. I think my dad remarked that it was on the decline, but it appears to be gone now. The Mall of Louisiana has really lead to Cortana's demise (admittedly, the Mall of Louisiana is probably the best mall I've been in, and Cortana was not).

As we speak, Cortana is being demolished for an Amazon warehouse/fulfillment center.
I wish the same would happen to Microsoft's Cortana too  :bigass:
That's the joke Bezos wants you to have in mind.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on June 10, 2021, 08:07:28 AM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/st-augustine-outlet-mall-owner-wants-to-close-it-redevelop-site (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/st-augustine-outlet-mall-owner-wants-to-close-it-redevelop-site)

Looks like one of the two outlet malls on the outskirts of St. Augustine is going to become mixed-use (with a Baptist Health center to boot).
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: TheGrassGuy on June 11, 2021, 01:49:48 PM
The Phillipsburg Mall in Phillipsburg NJ got demolished recently. Liberty Village Outlets probably will in a few months.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on June 14, 2021, 12:50:55 PM
According to the Columbus Dispatch, Washington Prime has just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Mr. Matté on June 14, 2021, 01:29:12 PM
Quote from: TheGrassGuy on June 11, 2021, 01:49:48 PM
The Phillipsburg Mall in Phillipsburg NJ got demolished recently. Liberty Village Outlets probably will in a few months.

Burlington Center is pretty far along in its demolition too based on driving by yesterday.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on June 14, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on June 14, 2021, 12:50:55 PM
According to the Columbus Dispatch, Washington Prime has just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Maybe they should change the name to Optimus Prime




I never had the balls to say that in their offices when I was one of their tenants.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on June 14, 2021, 09:15:53 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on June 14, 2021, 08:43:52 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on June 14, 2021, 12:50:55 PM
According to the Columbus Dispatch, Washington Prime has just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Maybe they should change the name to Optimus Prime




I never had the balls to say that in their offices when I was one of their tenants.
Hah, good one.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 26, 2021, 05:00:39 PM
Looks like Eastland Center in Harper Woods has met it's fate. It was recently sold to a development group who plans on demolishing the mall. The mall has been on it's last leg for quite a few years now and has lost all it's main anchor stores. JCPenney, Sears, Macy's, Target and Burlington Coat Factory are all gone. This will be the second of the directional land malls in Detroit to close, Northland closed about six years ago. Westland and Southland are both still open.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on June 27, 2021, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 26, 2021, 05:00:39 PM
Looks like Eastland Center in Harper Woods has met it's fate. It was recently sold to a development group who plans on demolishing the mall. The mall has been on it's last leg for quite a few years now and has lost all it's main anchor stores. JCPenney, Sears, Macy's, Target and Burlington Coat Factory are all gone. This will be the second of the directional land malls in Detroit to close, Northland closed about six years ago. Westland and Southland are both still open.

Although within the last couple of weeks, Sears announced the closing of their Westland store.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 27, 2021, 03:48:35 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on June 27, 2021, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on June 26, 2021, 05:00:39 PM
Looks like Eastland Center in Harper Woods has met it's fate. It was recently sold to a development group who plans on demolishing the mall. The mall has been on it's last leg for quite a few years now and has lost all it's main anchor stores. JCPenney, Sears, Macy's, Target and Burlington Coat Factory are all gone. This will be the second of the directional land malls in Detroit to close, Northland closed about six years ago. Westland and Southland are both still open.

Although within the last couple of weeks, Sears announced the closing of their Westland store.
JCPenney and Kohls are still open and the mall is doing better than Eastland has been doing the last several years. That'll be the last Sears in Michigan to close. I don't think I've bought anything from a Sears in 15 years.
Title: Revival of dead malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:29:51 PM
https://www.witn.com/2021/07/21/vernon-park-mall-kinston-sold-27-million/

I'd hate to see it demolished, but I think this can come back up. I've never been inside and I want to go inside!

Compare it to the Carolina East Mall and when it closed it was demolished and redeveloped right away compared to this one which has been sitting for years. I don't expect something too nice over here, cause Kinston is a rundown city.

WRONG BOARD. I WAS NOT PAYING ATTENTION--- DAMN
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2021, 02:35:28 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:29:51 PM--DAMN



Locally the Manchester Mall in Fresno is slowly being converted into office space.  Caltrans District 6 I believe is the largest tenant now.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:58:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.
Regency was the first nail in the coffin.

Virginia was the final nail in the coffin.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:58:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.
Regency was the first nail in the coffin.

Virginia was the final nail in the coffin.
The neighborhood doesn't even look that bad.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:58:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.
Regency was the first nail in the coffin.

Virginia was the final nail in the coffin.
The neighborhood doesn't even look that bad.
I was surprised to see the mall just sitting there like that.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:08:07 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:58:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.
Regency was the first nail in the coffin.

Virginia was the final nail in the coffin.
The neighborhood doesn't even look that bad.
I was surprised to see the mall just sitting there like that.
Even worse than the Vernon Park Mall in Kinston. That mall has been sitting there undeveloped for over 20 years.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:08:07 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:58:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.
Regency was the first nail in the coffin.

Virginia was the final nail in the coffin.
The neighborhood doesn't even look that bad.
I was surprised to see the mall just sitting there like that.
Even worse than the Vernon Park Mall in Kinston. That mall has been sitting there undeveloped for over 20 years.
I've yet to see that one.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:10:44 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:08:38 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:08:07 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:06:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:05:08 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:58:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.
Regency was the first nail in the coffin.

Virginia was the final nail in the coffin.
The neighborhood doesn't even look that bad.
I was surprised to see the mall just sitting there like that.
Even worse than the Vernon Park Mall in Kinston. That mall has been sitting there undeveloped for over 20 years.
I've yet to see that one.
http://www.vernonparkmall.com/
I do have a thread here (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=29805.0), and I hope it gets moved.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.

Actually, Virginia Center Commons killed Azalea Mall by accelerating white flight - people didn't want to go into the city to shop at a mall in the early 1990s.

Of course, VCC was itself killed by Short Pump Town Center and Stony Point Fashion Park (which is itself dying), and has been mostly demolished except for its anchors (so the DeadMalls.com article (http://deadmalls.com/malls/azalea_mall.html) isn't entirely correct anymore).

There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:21:16 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:01 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 03:51:48 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 02:33:46 PM
What mall is this (http://prntscr.com/1efk64g)?

It's in Richmond just east of I-95.
Appears to be the Azalea Mall. It was built in 1963, closed in 1995. Was demolished in 1998.
And it has not been redeveloped and the foundation is still standing. Gross, I say. It's probably I-295 that killed the mall.

Actually, Virginia Center Commons killed Azalea Mall by accelerating white flight - people didn't want to go into the city to shop at a mall in the early 1990s.

Of course, VCC was itself killed by Short Pump Town Center and Stony Point Fashion Park (which is itself dying), and has been mostly demolished except for its anchors (so the DeadMalls.com article (http://deadmalls.com/malls/azalea_mall.html) isn't entirely correct anymore).

There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Oh, thanks, Will. I wasn't interested in finishing up the article I was just trying to get to the point of what killed the Azalea Mall back in the day. Sucks that City Council has turned its back on the property.

Was not aware of Stony Point dying off. Short Pump seems nice enough.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.

I actually pulled off of one of the two Baltimore tunnel approaches by accident and found myself in a derelict-looking neighborhood. I felt bad and left by simply turning around and driving back to the highway.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Our mall in Greenville, NC needs work done to it. It's very boring.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Our mall in Greenville, NC needs work done to it. It's very boring.
Which one?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Our mall in Greenville, NC needs work done to it. It's very boring.
Which one?
https://www.thegreenvillemall.com/en.html
Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
To make it sports-related, the Hartford Whalers' arena was attached to a shopping mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:02:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Our mall in Greenville, NC needs work done to it. It's very boring.
Which one?
https://www.thegreenvillemall.com/en.html
Oh that one. I can see why a one-story mall would be uninspiring.
Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:04:23 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
To make it sports-related, the Hartford Whalers' arena was attached to a shopping mall.
Yes and here in Jacksonville the old Philips Mall, or, Philips Highway Plaza has a rink that has attracted the IceMen, who are now affiliates of the current Hartford team. In addition to the NY Rangers.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:02:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Our mall in Greenville, NC needs work done to it. It's very boring.
Which one?
https://www.thegreenvillemall.com/en.html
Oh that one. I can see why a one-story mall would be uninspiring.
And yet Kinston and Asheville have bigger malls than we do here.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:18:01 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:02:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Our mall in Greenville, NC needs work done to it. It's very boring.
Which one?
https://www.thegreenvillemall.com/en.html
Oh that one. I can see why a one-story mall would be uninspiring.
And yet Kinston and Asheville have bigger malls than we do here.
Kinston is on a major east-west corridor (US 70). Asheville is obviously at a major crossroads.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:21:25 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:18:01 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:02:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Our mall in Greenville, NC needs work done to it. It's very boring.
Which one?
https://www.thegreenvillemall.com/en.html
Oh that one. I can see why a one-story mall would be uninspiring.
And yet Kinston and Asheville have bigger malls than we do here.
Kinston is on a major east-west corridor (US 70). Asheville is obviously at a major crossroads.
But, you have the Kinston Bypass coming up soon. Its going to kill the mall even more.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:24:08 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:21:25 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:18:01 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:02:15 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:00:37 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:57:10 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:50:09 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:35:56 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:59 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.
No, it is not, but it has some (somewhat?) decent suburbs. Remember, a metro area is a better sum of the parts.
The Triangle Town Center is in them but it's in a middle-class area where it's mixed.
Right, and speaking of foreclosed malls, there is now one in Montgomery County, PA. The Montgomery Mall has just been foreclosed upon.
Our mall in Greenville, NC needs work done to it. It's very boring.
Which one?
https://www.thegreenvillemall.com/en.html
Oh that one. I can see why a one-story mall would be uninspiring.
And yet Kinston and Asheville have bigger malls than we do here.
Kinston is on a major east-west corridor (US 70). Asheville is obviously at a major crossroads.
But, you have the Kinston Bypass coming up soon. Its going to kill the mall even more.
I guess that just leaves Asheville then. Oh well.
Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:27:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
To make it sports-related, the Hartford Whalers' arena was attached to a shopping mall.
It's NOT sports related. I put this in the wrong section.
Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:27:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
To make it sports-related, the Hartford Whalers' arena was attached to a shopping mall.
It's NOT sports related. I put this in the wrong section.
Dude, chill. Just wait until the mods step in and fix it.
Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2021, 05:33:53 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:27:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
To make it sports-related, the Hartford Whalers' arena was attached to a shopping mall.
It's NOT sports related. I put this in the wrong section.
Dude, chill. Just wait until the mods step in and fix it.

Did someone say chill?  Time for some ice puns!


Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:47:40 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2021, 05:33:53 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:27:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
To make it sports-related, the Hartford Whalers' arena was attached to a shopping mall.
It's NOT sports related. I put this in the wrong section.
Dude, chill. Just wait until the mods step in and fix it.

Did someone say chill?  Time for some ice puns!


Ha, well, it is rather hot out outside here.
Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 06:14:45 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:27:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
To make it sports-related, the Hartford Whalers' arena was attached to a shopping mall.
It's NOT sports related. I put this in the wrong section.
Dude, chill. Just wait until the mods step in and fix it.

Or go to Hartford since there's an ice rink.
Title: Re: Revival of dead malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 07:12:16 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 06:14:45 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 05:29:29 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 05:27:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 22, 2021, 05:01:18 PM
To make it sports-related, the Hartford Whalers' arena was attached to a shopping mall.
It's NOT sports related. I put this in the wrong section.
Dude, chill. Just wait until the mods step in and fix it.

Or go to Hartford since there's an ice rink.
Haha, good one. I mean, this is the Cowford.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.

Richmond was *much* rougher at the time. That area has changed and is now mostly old money along Brook Road, with lower incomes over toward Chamberlayne Avenue.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.

Richmond was *much* rougher at the time. That area has changed and is now mostly old money along Brook Road, with lower incomes over toward Chamberlayne Avenue.
Weren't they going to demolish I-95 and relocate it to where I-295 is now? I see it has those big bridges here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6568189,-77.4436609,3a,75y,329.04h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAaqVCp8Ftb2h94xDs-Efhg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

I think right now, it should have been tunneled.

And over the decades, Petersburg and Richmond has seen no growth lately and that's a big setback.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on July 22, 2021, 08:09:31 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.

Richmond was *much* rougher at the time. That area has changed and is now mostly old money along Brook Road, with lower incomes over toward Chamberlayne Avenue.
Weren't they going to demolish I-95 and relocate it to where I-295 is now? I see it has those big bridges here (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.6568189,-77.4436609,3a,75y,329.04h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAaqVCp8Ftb2h94xDs-Efhg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
The plan was originally indeed to have I-95 routed onto current 295, but the current routing would have just been renumbered instead of demolished. I think it was pending a rerouting of I-85 that was cancelled, because it didn't happen when 295 was finished.

Quote
And over the decades, Petersburg and Richmond has seen no growth lately and that's a big setback.
Ehh...not really true, even if you're just referring to the cities themselves. Petersburg is somewhat stagnant due to continual government tomfoolery (and even then, nearby Fort Lee has expanded in recent years and that's brought some development to Petersburg), but Richmond is doing pretty well, and the western suburbs like Short Pump and Midlothian are still growing explosively.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 08:17:30 PM
Quote from: Takumi on July 22, 2021, 08:09:31 PM
Ehh...not really true, even if you're just referring to the cities themselves. Petersburg is somewhat stagnant due to continual government tomfoolery (and even then, nearby Fort Lee has expanded in recent years and that's brought some development to Petersburg), but Richmond is doing pretty well, and the western suburbs like Short Pump and Midlothian are still growing explosively.
And the growth of Short Pump is part of why I-295 extension plan was scrapped? I would love to see an entrance to the shopping center to and from the highway.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 08:31:22 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 08:17:30 PM
Quote from: Takumi on July 22, 2021, 08:09:31 PM
Ehh...not really true, even if you're just referring to the cities themselves. Petersburg is somewhat stagnant due to continual government tomfoolery (and even then, nearby Fort Lee has expanded in recent years and that's brought some development to Petersburg), but Richmond is doing pretty well, and the western suburbs like Short Pump and Midlothian are still growing explosively.
And the growth of Short Pump is part of why I-295 extension plan was scrapped? I would love to see an entrance to the shopping center to and from the highway.

This is correct, there is a stub at the northern end of I-295 that would have tied into John Rolfe Pkwy, the originally intended routing for VA 288. Unfortunately there's such a short distance between the end of the stub and the road beyond that it's likely too dangerous to be used as an entrance, and the mall is about half a mile to the west anyway.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Scott5114 on July 22, 2021, 08:49:14 PM
Merged "revival of dead malls" thread erroneously posted in Sports to this thread.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.

Richmond was *much* rougher at the time. That area has changed and is now mostly old money along Brook Road, with lower incomes over toward Chamberlayne Avenue.
I was gonna say, hasn't the crack epidemic come and gone there?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on July 22, 2021, 11:25:59 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.

Richmond was *much* rougher at the time. That area has changed and is now mostly old money along Brook Road, with lower incomes over toward Chamberlayne Avenue.
I was gonna say, hasn't the crack epidemic come and gone there?

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Ftom-delonge-wtf1.gif&hash=436fa597950400b6d951c065cc98258e6ec29b74)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: Takumi on July 22, 2021, 11:25:59 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 10:26:29 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 07:32:34 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 04:32:03 PM
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on July 22, 2021, 04:16:47 PM
There have been so many proposals to redevelop the Azalea Mall property over the years, but none of them have seen the light of day as Richmond City Council is uninterested in redevelopment.
Which is why Richmond isn't the best city to live in.

Richmond was *much* rougher at the time. That area has changed and is now mostly old money along Brook Road, with lower incomes over toward Chamberlayne Avenue.
I was gonna say, hasn't the crack epidemic come and gone there?

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Ftom-delonge-wtf1.gif&hash=436fa597950400b6d951c065cc98258e6ec29b74)
I mean, there was one. Just rolling with the punches.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on July 23, 2021, 08:52:39 AM
I went to Portillo's in Sterling Heights last night. They haven't opened their dining room yet so you have to go through the drive thru. This is the second time I've gone there and I went and parked in Lakeside Mall's parking lot and sat under a tree to eat. I decided to go into the mall since I hadn't been in Lakeside in awhile and it looks as if it's dying a pretty good death. Macy's has two stores (A Home and Men's store) and a main store and JCPenney also has a store. Sears and Lord & Taylor have both shut their stores down, with Lord & Taylor shutting all their stores down. The mall seems to have some vacancy all over the place and this is a mall that was built by Taubman but they sold their part in the mall about 20 years ago. I don't see Lakeside in danger of closing as an entire mall like Northland and what Eastland will end up being like as well as Westland.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on September 24, 2021, 05:24:21 PM
Someone mentionned on Skyscraperpage this video of a dead mall in St.John's Newfoundland.
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9398650&postcount=1226
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPlBKLz9nhU
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on October 16, 2021, 09:55:12 PM
Century III Mall near Pittsburgh is not only dead, but buried. Once the third largest in the world, is now closed. It had good anchors when it was prime.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on January 19, 2022, 10:40:50 PM
Tarrytown Mall was flooded in Rocky Mount, North Carolina from Hurricane Floyd back in 1999. That's probably because due to its low elevation and it was so close to the Tar River.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Scott5114 on January 20, 2022, 02:15:41 AM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 19, 2022, 10:40:50 PM
Tarrytown Mall was flooded in Rocky Mount, North Carolina from Hurricane Floyd back in 1999. That's probably because due to its low elevation and it was so close to the Tar River.

That's not what "dead mall" means.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on January 26, 2022, 08:06:44 AM
This mall is hitting the end of the era.

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/virginia-beach/pembroke-mall-gives-interior-stores-until-monday-to-sell-what-they-can/
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hotdogPi on January 26, 2022, 08:17:15 AM
The Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, noted for its lack of sales tax, is still doing relatively well compared to many other malls, but I still don't expect it to last another 5 years. It was the highest revenue Simon mall per square foot in 2015. If this mall goes, that means that the future of malls in general is bleak.

(Note that 5 years is a long time, and I'm just beginning to see the downturn.)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: MATraveler128 on January 26, 2022, 09:11:50 AM
Liberty Tree Mall in Danvers, MA. If you live in that area and have been there, you can tell. The food court has a Regina Pizzeria, and a sushi place and that's it. The stores are run down and tired looking and are basically just Five Below, and a bunch of other mediocre places. Every time I go in there, it's never busy. I think what helps it out is the AMC movie theater and a SkyZone. It doesn't help though that the NorthShore Mall across the street has been recently updated following the closure of Sears.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: kevinb1994 on January 26, 2022, 09:32:06 AM
If they can close Pembroke, why can't they close Regency? (I mean the one near here.)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SectorZ on January 26, 2022, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on January 26, 2022, 09:11:50 AM
Liberty Tree Mall in Danvers, MA. If you live in that area and have been there, you can tell. The food court has a Regina Pizzeria, and a sushi place and that's it. The stores are run down and tired looking and are basically just Five Below, and a bunch of other mediocre places. Every time I go in there, it's never busy. I think what helps it out is the AMC movie theater and a SkyZone. It doesn't help though that the NorthShore Mall across the street has been recently updated following the closure of Sears.

Don't forget that the food court also has the ability to sign up to be cannon fodder in eastern Europe sometime soon. That's always a nice touch.

https://www.simon.com/mall/liberty-tree-mall/stores/food-court

(Point for further discussion, is this mall up there for dumpiest Simon run mall)

Quote from: 1 on January 26, 2022, 08:17:15 AM
The Mall at Rockingham Park in Salem NH, noted for its lack of sales tax, is still doing relatively well compared to many other malls, but I still don't expect it to last another 5 years. It was the highest revenue Simon mall per square foot in 2015. If this mall goes, that means that the future of malls in general is bleak.

(Note that 5 years is a long time, and I'm just beginning to see the downturn.)

I will take the other side of the bet. In five years that mall will be just fine.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: MATraveler128 on January 26, 2022, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on January 26, 2022, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on January 26, 2022, 09:11:50 AM
Liberty Tree Mall in Danvers, MA. If you live in that area and have been there, you can tell. The food court has a Regina Pizzeria, and a sushi place and that’s it. The stores are run down and tired looking and are basically just Five Below, and a bunch of other mediocre places. Every time I go in there, it’s never busy. I think what helps it out is the AMC movie theater and a SkyZone. It doesn’t help though that the NorthShore Mall across the street has been recently updated following the closure of Sears.

Don't forget that the food court also has the ability to sign up to be cannon fodder in eastern Europe sometime soon. That's always a nice touch.

https://www.simon.com/mall/liberty-tree-mall/stores/food-court

(Point for further discussion, is this mall up there for dumpiest Simon run mall)


I don’t know exactly, but that mall does seem run down given that Simon owns it. It is missing a lot of features that drive people to the mall in the first place. I wonder if Simon has any plans to try to make it more profitable. They do need to add more restaurants to the food court. Chick Fil A for example is easily the most popular spot at the food court, so that would be a nice addition, but they need more lifestyle options and more popular places to eat. Is there anything planned for the former AC Moore space that shut down?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Takumi on January 26, 2022, 01:39:37 PM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on January 26, 2022, 09:32:06 AM
If they can close Pembroke, why can't they close Regency? (I mean the one near here.)
Also a fair question about the one in Virginia. If you told someone in Richmond in 2010 that Regency would outlive Virginia Center Commons, people would have thought you were crazy.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SectorZ on January 26, 2022, 04:04:37 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on January 26, 2022, 01:06:49 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on January 26, 2022, 12:50:32 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on January 26, 2022, 09:11:50 AM
Liberty Tree Mall in Danvers, MA. If you live in that area and have been there, you can tell. The food court has a Regina Pizzeria, and a sushi place and that's it. The stores are run down and tired looking and are basically just Five Below, and a bunch of other mediocre places. Every time I go in there, it's never busy. I think what helps it out is the AMC movie theater and a SkyZone. It doesn't help though that the NorthShore Mall across the street has been recently updated following the closure of Sears.

Don't forget that the food court also has the ability to sign up to be cannon fodder in eastern Europe sometime soon. That's always a nice touch.

https://www.simon.com/mall/liberty-tree-mall/stores/food-court

(Point for further discussion, is this mall up there for dumpiest Simon run mall)


I don't know exactly, but that mall does seem run down given that Simon owns it. It is missing a lot of features that drive people to the mall in the first place. I wonder if Simon has any plans to try to make it more profitable. They do need to add more restaurants to the food court. Chick Fil A for example is easily the most popular spot at the food court, so that would be a nice addition, but they need more lifestyle options and more popular places to eat. Is there anything planned for the former AC Moore space that shut down?

I haven't read anything about plans for anything new in that place. I can see the inside being gutted soon and being turned into a power center between the Kohl's and Best Buy, which would still allow the theatre, Marshall's, Old Navy, and Skyzone to exist in their own spaces as well.

Maybe even find the original Liberty Tree sculpture and put it back, which one of the mall owners made off with in the 80's.

Or... put the Carousel back that appeared in the 90's that was then taken out by Simon in the 2000's and put in the Rockingham Park Mall, only for that to disappear not long after from there

(Mall owners are great at making their predecessors unique draws disappear with alarming consistency)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: MATraveler128 on January 26, 2022, 04:49:55 PM
I think the Square One Mall in Saugus is another one that has seen better days. I recently visited it two weeks ago after not have been since I was a kid, The downfall there is also showing, although not as bad as Liberty Tree. The only reason it was busy there was because of a COVID testing site.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on January 26, 2022, 10:05:20 PM
Simon Properties bought Mesa Mall in Grand Junction, CO a few years ago, but did little to enhance it.

Before I knew it, they sold it to someone else.

I believe under this current owners watch, they knocked down the old Sears and replaced it with a brand new Dillards, the old Herberger's was torn down and a brand new Dick's Sporting Goods is in its place and the old Sports Authority store was fitted and converted to a Home  Goods.

That being said, there are still a lot of 2nd-rate non-chain stores that occupy a lot of the mall wings (like a candy store that only sells candy from Mexico & Central America).

We still have a JCPenney -- that has a lot of empty spaces -- a Target and a Cabela's as anchors as well, but the current owners still haven't remodeled the mall interior much.  There are still the same discolored, sagging ceiling tiles and faded area photos in the main "courtyard", so it's hard to tell how this mall will fare as-is, or if they convert it to an outdoor shopping community in the years to come.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on February 05, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/MbbZWeaqR3BN7RVL8

Looks like Livingston Mall in Livingston, NJ died from the GSV image.  However I am guessing that last Summer NJ still had Covid restrictions as from what I researched the Mall is still open except for Sears which never got vacated yet.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: tolbs17 on February 05, 2022, 10:42:22 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 05, 2022, 10:28:50 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/MbbZWeaqR3BN7RVL8

Looks like Livingston Mall in Livingston, NJ died from the GSV image.  However I am guessing that last Summer NJ still had Covid restrictions as from what I researched the Mall is still open except for Sears which never got vacated yet.
I used to go there with my dad when I was on vacation. Guess it's time for a new era...

Alternatives would be Short Hills or Bridgewater malls.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: golden eagle on February 08, 2022, 10:34:03 AM
Massive new park for Gwinnett Place Mall area (https://www.11alive.com/article/news/local/gwinnett-place-mall-park-stranger-things/85-0e06caff-5eb1-437b-9eba-c63db1d8b1e8)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on February 09, 2022, 08:26:17 AM
I was in the Detroit area riding around yesterday. I happened to drive past Eastland Mall in Harper Woods which is completely abandoned. I came in off Kelly and was going to drive around the mall lot but the snow was too deep and not plowed and there is a fence surrounding the property to keep people off the property. The mall is supposed to be demolished and converted to warehouses and industrial buildings. The interior of the mall closed about 3 months ago in November.

I also went to Monroe and drove up to The Mall of Monroe (formerly Frenchtown Square Mall). I just drove up to the main entrance and left. There weren't very many cars there so you could consider this a dead mall now too. This mall only opened in 1988 so it's 34 years old this year not too old for a mall. There used to be two Carson's stores, Sears, Target, JCPenney was an original anchor but closed this location about 20 years ago. Sears closed this location in 2011, Target closed around 2014. There was also a Pat Catan's location but it closed and never reopened as a Michael's.

The Mall Of Monroe should be considered a dead mall now too.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: JMoses24 on March 31, 2022, 12:33:51 AM
Both Tri-County Mall AND the former Forest Fair/Cincinnati Mills Mall north of Cincinnati are set to be demolished and redeveloped imminently. Forest Fair will become a light industrial area; Tri-County will become a mixed use development.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/tri-county-mall-cincinnati-closing-redevelopment-project-date/39572456?fbclid=IwAR2Yt-9DBcK1qNjMOMqt0CWN8MOZFvkpDp4luxcGcd6EP6WYsHDjBMsDk50

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/fairfield/former-forest-fair-mall-other-buildings-will-be-demolished-if-funds-come-through
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on April 01, 2022, 08:08:37 AM
Quote from: JMoses24 on March 31, 2022, 12:33:51 AM
Both Tri-County Mall AND the former Forest Fair/Cincinnati Mills Mall north of Cincinnati are set to be demolished and redeveloped imminently. Forest Fair will become a light industrial area; Tri-County will become a mixed use development.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/tri-county-mall-cincinnati-closing-redevelopment-project-date/39572456?fbclid=IwAR2Yt-9DBcK1qNjMOMqt0CWN8MOZFvkpDp4luxcGcd6EP6WYsHDjBMsDk50

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/fairfield/former-forest-fair-mall-other-buildings-will-be-demolished-if-funds-come-through
When I was in there last year the Macy's was going out of business which would leave no anchors in the mall. Lakeview Square Mall in Battle Creek, MI is the same way, no anchors left. I have no idea why it's called Lakeview though since there is no lake nearby other than Goguac Lake but it's not in the view of the lake.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: stlukeyo7 on June 02, 2022, 03:33:43 AM
i lived in akron and weird how infamous rolling acres became but surely not the only one by now. i have a save rolling acres t shirt somewhere.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on September 02, 2022, 09:31:55 AM
In case anyone didn't realize it but I was in Detroit yesterday and drove past Eastland Center which is currently being demolished. So Eastland is a long gone mall now.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on September 02, 2022, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on September 02, 2022, 09:31:55 AM
In case anyone didn't realize it but I was in Detroit yesterday and drove past Eastland Center which is currently being demolished. So Eastland is a long gone mall now.

Amazon hits another.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: royo6022 on September 02, 2022, 10:14:06 AM
Washington Square Mall in Evansville, IN... was kind of on its last breath for awhile but there's been a lot of efforts to revitalize it recently. All of the food service booths have shut down except for the Noble Roman's pizza, but there is still a couple clinics and a few retail stores. A consignment shop at the mall just expanded and has brought a lot more traffic in the last few months.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on September 02, 2022, 11:13:26 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 02, 2022, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on September 02, 2022, 09:31:55 AM
In case anyone didn't realize it but I was in Detroit yesterday and drove past Eastland Center which is currently being demolished. So Eastland is a long gone mall now.

Amazon hits another.
The sad thing is that both Detroit area malls developed by Hudson's are now goners. The other one was Northland. Detroit had all four directions in the name of four of the malls, Eastland, Northland, Southland and Westland. Southland and Westland are still hanging on.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Life in Paradise on September 02, 2022, 03:00:12 PM
Quote from: royo6022 on September 02, 2022, 10:14:06 AM
Washington Square Mall in Evansville, IN... was kind of on its last breath for awhile but there's been a lot of efforts to revitalize it recently. All of the food service booths have shut down except for the Noble Roman's pizza, but there is still a couple clinics and a few retail stores. A consignment shop at the mall just expanded and has brought a lot more traffic in the last few months.

The knife really got twisted in the heart of Washington Square when the still profitable Sears store in the mall closed.  At least the bar in the front is doing well and has expanded.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on September 02, 2022, 05:55:40 PM
It was interesting went I went back to visit my hometown are of Northeast Ohio a couple of weeks ago:

I drove by 3 former mall sites -- Euclid Square & Randall Park in Cleveland and Rolling Acres Mall in Akron ‐‐ now all Amazon Distribution Centers.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on October 14, 2022, 12:25:50 AM
University Mall in Tampa is history.  The parking lot is fenced off while the walls on the former movie house has been ripped off exposing the steel frame.

Their website still claims it's open though.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Rothman on October 14, 2022, 06:52:06 AM
Shoppingtown Mall in Syracuse, NY has been essentially a dead mall for years now (a few weird businesses came and went).  However, NYSDOT will be conducting a traffic impact study for a plan to redevelop the site.  Will it be another pipe dream or will the development actually occur?  Time will tell.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Brandon on October 15, 2022, 08:31:02 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 02, 2022, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on September 02, 2022, 09:31:55 AM
In case anyone didn't realize it but I was in Detroit yesterday and drove past Eastland Center which is currently being demolished. So Eastland is a long gone mall now.

Amazon hits another.

Amazon didn't kill either Eastland or Northland.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on October 15, 2022, 11:30:26 AM
Wilson, NC I see that video is of.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:18 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html

It's at the junction of ALT US 264 and NC 42 just north of ( west) of US 301.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:18 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html

It's at the junction of ALT US 264 and NC 42 just north of ( west) of US 301.
Yep I found it. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7248819,-77.9373745,314m/data=!3m1!1e3 it looks like the Rose's Discount Store is still open too.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 07:23:31 AM
Quote from: Brandon on October 15, 2022, 08:31:02 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 02, 2022, 10:00:36 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on September 02, 2022, 09:31:55 AM
In case anyone didn't realize it but I was in Detroit yesterday and drove past Eastland Center which is currently being demolished. So Eastland is a long gone mall now.

Amazon hits another.

Amazon didn't kill either Eastland or Northland.
Nope I think crime had a lot to do with people not being interested in going there especially at Eastland. There were multiple shootings in the mall's parking lot about 10-15 years ago and all the anchors cleared out of the mall. It's not like it was a successfull mall that just got closed it was in bad shape for a long time.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:18 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html

It's at the junction of ALT US 264 and NC 42 just north of ( west) of US 301.
Yep I found it. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7248819,-77.9373745,314m/data=!3m1!1e3 it looks like the Rose's Discount Store is still open too.

I grew up in Fremont (a few miles south of Wilson) and we would often go to that mall during the 90's/2000's. That mall went to shit after Hull bought it. To say that they mismanaged it would be a huge understatement. They did everything they could to run it into the ground. They jacked up the rent, and when the tenants tried to get in touch with Hull over maintenance issues, Hull basically told them to fuck off and not bother them. Not one tenant in that mall had anything good to say about them (especially the owner of Carolina Outfitters, he was very vocal). Hull also drove away teenagers due to new rules they made. Needless to say, a lot of the mall tenants flocked to Heritage Crossing after it opened (those moves were also "assisted" by the Wilson City Council, who wanted more businesses near I-95).

After the mall closed in 2013, Hull bragged about how they were gonna tear down the mall and redevelop the property. That sounded good, until they asked the city council for an apparently hefty tax break. The city council refused, so Hull retaliated by letting the mall just sit there and rot. Hull also owns the mall here in Danville, VA and they're treating the tenants the same way they did in Wilson. They also started talking about redeveloping it (sound familiar?), so I expect this mall will close within the next few years and ask Danville for the tax break that Wilson wouldn't give.

As far as Rose's goes, yes they're still open, but being attached to a rotting mall has been causing issues. Not long before the pandemic began, they had to shut down for a while because of a rat infestation. My most recent visit there was in December 2017.

It sucks what happened to that mall. I have a lot of good memories there as a kid. Oh, and the name change sucked as well. As far as I'm concerned, it's still Parkwood. :coffee:
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 03:31:56 PM
Sounds like a bad company this Hull.  What you described gives the word Slum Lord a new vocabulary.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 03:31:56 PM
Sounds like a bad company this Hull.  What you described gives the word Slum Lord a new vocabulary.

Yeah, they do not have a good reputation. They were known as Hull Storey Gibson when they bought Wilson Parkwood Mall, but they revamped themselves and is now Hull Property Group. Their shitty MO is still the same though.

They bought Piedmont Mall here back in 2013, and renamed it Danville Mall, and started making the same changes they did in Wilson. I'll be shocked if it survives this decade.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:18 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html

It's at the junction of ALT US 264 and NC 42 just north of ( west) of US 301.
Yep I found it. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7248819,-77.9373745,314m/data=!3m1!1e3 it looks like the Rose's Discount Store is still open too.

I grew up in Fremont (a few miles south of Wilson) and we would often go to that mall during the 90's/2000's. That mall went to shit after Hull bought it. To say that they mismanaged it would be a huge understatement. They did everything they could to run it into the ground. They jacked up the rent, and when the tenants tried to get in touch with Hull over maintenance issues, Hull basically told them to fuck off and not bother them. Not one tenant in that mall had anything good to say about them (especially the owner of Carolina Outfitters, he was very vocal). Hull also drove away teenagers due to new rules they made. Needless to say, a lot of the mall tenants flocked to Heritage Crossing after it opened (those moves were also "assisted" by the Wilson City Council, who wanted more businesses near I-95).

After the mall closed in 2013, Hull bragged about how they were gonna tear down the mall and redevelop the property. That sounded good, until they asked the city council for an apparently hefty tax break. The city council refused, so Hull retaliated by letting the mall just sit there and rot. Hull also owns the mall here in Danville, VA and they're treating the tenants the same way they did in Wilson. They also started talking about redeveloping it (sound familiar?), so I expect this mall will close within the next few years and ask Danville for the tax break that Wilson wouldn't give.

As far as Rose's goes, yes they're still open, but being attached to a rotting mall has been causing issues. Not long before the pandemic began, they had to shut down for a while because of a rat infestation. My most recent visit there was in December 2017.

It sucks what happened to that mall. I have a lot of good memories there as a kid. Oh, and the name change sucked as well. As far as I'm concerned, it's still Parkwood. :coffee:
That is crazy. What is the reason that Rose's is still open at that location anyway? I think I would feel creepy inside that store knowing that the rest of the mall behind the wall that used to be the mall entrance is beyond creepy.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 08:10:46 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:18 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html

It's at the junction of ALT US 264 and NC 42 just north of ( west) of US 301.
Yep I found it. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7248819,-77.9373745,314m/data=!3m1!1e3 it looks like the Rose's Discount Store is still open too.

I grew up in Fremont (a few miles south of Wilson) and we would often go to that mall during the 90's/2000's. That mall went to shit after Hull bought it. To say that they mismanaged it would be a huge understatement. They did everything they could to run it into the ground. They jacked up the rent, and when the tenants tried to get in touch with Hull over maintenance issues, Hull basically told them to fuck off and not bother them. Not one tenant in that mall had anything good to say about them (especially the owner of Carolina Outfitters, he was very vocal). Hull also drove away teenagers due to new rules they made. Needless to say, a lot of the mall tenants flocked to Heritage Crossing after it opened (those moves were also "assisted" by the Wilson City Council, who wanted more businesses near I-95).

After the mall closed in 2013, Hull bragged about how they were gonna tear down the mall and redevelop the property. That sounded good, until they asked the city council for an apparently hefty tax break. The city council refused, so Hull retaliated by letting the mall just sit there and rot. Hull also owns the mall here in Danville, VA and they're treating the tenants the same way they did in Wilson. They also started talking about redeveloping it (sound familiar?), so I expect this mall will close within the next few years and ask Danville for the tax break that Wilson wouldn't give.

As far as Rose's goes, yes they're still open, but being attached to a rotting mall has been causing issues. Not long before the pandemic began, they had to shut down for a while because of a rat infestation. My most recent visit there was in December 2017.

It sucks what happened to that mall. I have a lot of good memories there as a kid. Oh, and the name change sucked as well. As far as I'm concerned, it's still Parkwood. :coffee:
That is crazy. What is the reason that Rose's is still open at that location anyway? I think I would feel creepy inside that store knowing that the rest of the mall behind the wall that used to be the mall entrance is beyond creepy.

I'm not sure why they're still there, because when the mall closed in 2013, Hull initially said that all businesses that had an outside entrance could stay, but within the next 2 years, they suddenly started kicking them out too. The owners of Parkwood Barber Shop, which was near the main mall entrance, were pissed, because they had no idea they were gonna get the boot until they got their short notice. They ended up relocating to the corner of Forest Hills Road & Raleigh Road Parkway (US-264 Alternate) and reopened as Webb's Barber Shop. How Rose's survived that purge is beyond me.

I will say that when I was last stopped by Rose's in December 2017, the inside of the store honestly didn't look bad at all at the time. The entrance to the mall corridor was sealed off with glass instead of a solid wall, and they had large rolls of area rugs lined up vertically in front of it to try to keep the mall corridor hidden from view, but you could still see the mall corridor if you get real close to the rugs. I could see the mall corridor was trashed, but not quite as bad as it is now, which would probably explain the rat problem Rose's had fairly recently.

Heh...a guy was busted a few days ago for stealing copper wire from the old AC units on the roof.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/man-caught-on-mall-roof-plundering-ac-units/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/man-caught-on-mall-roof-plundering-ac-units/?pub=wilsontimes)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 08:26:46 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 08:10:46 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:18 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html

It's at the junction of ALT US 264 and NC 42 just north of ( west) of US 301.
Yep I found it. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7248819,-77.9373745,314m/data=!3m1!1e3 it looks like the Rose's Discount Store is still open too.

I grew up in Fremont (a few miles south of Wilson) and we would often go to that mall during the 90's/2000's. That mall went to shit after Hull bought it. To say that they mismanaged it would be a huge understatement. They did everything they could to run it into the ground. They jacked up the rent, and when the tenants tried to get in touch with Hull over maintenance issues, Hull basically told them to fuck off and not bother them. Not one tenant in that mall had anything good to say about them (especially the owner of Carolina Outfitters, he was very vocal). Hull also drove away teenagers due to new rules they made. Needless to say, a lot of the mall tenants flocked to Heritage Crossing after it opened (those moves were also "assisted" by the Wilson City Council, who wanted more businesses near I-95).

After the mall closed in 2013, Hull bragged about how they were gonna tear down the mall and redevelop the property. That sounded good, until they asked the city council for an apparently hefty tax break. The city council refused, so Hull retaliated by letting the mall just sit there and rot. Hull also owns the mall here in Danville, VA and they're treating the tenants the same way they did in Wilson. They also started talking about redeveloping it (sound familiar?), so I expect this mall will close within the next few years and ask Danville for the tax break that Wilson wouldn't give.

As far as Rose's goes, yes they're still open, but being attached to a rotting mall has been causing issues. Not long before the pandemic began, they had to shut down for a while because of a rat infestation. My most recent visit there was in December 2017.

It sucks what happened to that mall. I have a lot of good memories there as a kid. Oh, and the name change sucked as well. As far as I'm concerned, it's still Parkwood. :coffee:
That is crazy. What is the reason that Rose's is still open at that location anyway? I think I would feel creepy inside that store knowing that the rest of the mall behind the wall that used to be the mall entrance is beyond creepy.

I'm not sure why they're still there, because when the mall closed in 2013, Hull initially said that all businesses that had an outside entrance could stay, but within the next 2 years, they suddenly started kicking them out too. The owners of Parkwood Barber Shop, which was near the main mall entrance, were pissed, because they had no idea they were gonna get the boot until they got their short notice. They ended up relocating to the corner of Forest Hills Road & Raleigh Road Parkway (US-264 Alternate) and reopened as Webb's Barber Shop. How Rose's survived that purge is beyond me.

I will say that when I was last stopped by Rose's in December 2017, the inside of the store honestly didn't look bad at all at the time. The entrance to the mall corridor was sealed off with glass instead of a solid wall, and they had large rolls of area rugs lined up vertically in front of it to try to keep the mall corridor hidden from view, but you could still see the mall corridor if you get real close to the rugs. I could see the mall corridor was trashed, but not quite as bad as it is now, which would probably explain the rat problem Rose's had fairly recently.

Heh...a guy was busted a few days ago for stealing copper wire from the old AC units on the roof.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/man-caught-on-mall-roof-plundering-ac-units/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/man-caught-on-mall-roof-plundering-ac-units/?pub=wilsontimes)
You'd think they would have relocated by now. I was looking at Hull's wikipedia page and it mentions that they own the Macon Mall as well which is considered a dead mall on wikipedia but I'm not sure if that one has been mentioned here or not.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on October 17, 2022, 09:37:35 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 08:26:46 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 08:10:46 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:18 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html

It's at the junction of ALT US 264 and NC 42 just north of ( west) of US 301.
Yep I found it. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7248819,-77.9373745,314m/data=!3m1!1e3 it looks like the Rose's Discount Store is still open too.

I grew up in Fremont (a few miles south of Wilson) and we would often go to that mall during the 90's/2000's. That mall went to shit after Hull bought it. To say that they mismanaged it would be a huge understatement. They did everything they could to run it into the ground. They jacked up the rent, and when the tenants tried to get in touch with Hull over maintenance issues, Hull basically told them to fuck off and not bother them. Not one tenant in that mall had anything good to say about them (especially the owner of Carolina Outfitters, he was very vocal). Hull also drove away teenagers due to new rules they made. Needless to say, a lot of the mall tenants flocked to Heritage Crossing after it opened (those moves were also "assisted" by the Wilson City Council, who wanted more businesses near I-95).

After the mall closed in 2013, Hull bragged about how they were gonna tear down the mall and redevelop the property. That sounded good, until they asked the city council for an apparently hefty tax break. The city council refused, so Hull retaliated by letting the mall just sit there and rot. Hull also owns the mall here in Danville, VA and they're treating the tenants the same way they did in Wilson. They also started talking about redeveloping it (sound familiar?), so I expect this mall will close within the next few years and ask Danville for the tax break that Wilson wouldn't give.

As far as Rose's goes, yes they're still open, but being attached to a rotting mall has been causing issues. Not long before the pandemic began, they had to shut down for a while because of a rat infestation. My most recent visit there was in December 2017.

It sucks what happened to that mall. I have a lot of good memories there as a kid. Oh, and the name change sucked as well. As far as I'm concerned, it's still Parkwood. :coffee:
That is crazy. What is the reason that Rose's is still open at that location anyway? I think I would feel creepy inside that store knowing that the rest of the mall behind the wall that used to be the mall entrance is beyond creepy.

I'm not sure why they're still there, because when the mall closed in 2013, Hull initially said that all businesses that had an outside entrance could stay, but within the next 2 years, they suddenly started kicking them out too. The owners of Parkwood Barber Shop, which was near the main mall entrance, were pissed, because they had no idea they were gonna get the boot until they got their short notice. They ended up relocating to the corner of Forest Hills Road & Raleigh Road Parkway (US-264 Alternate) and reopened as Webb's Barber Shop. How Rose's survived that purge is beyond me.

I will say that when I was last stopped by Rose's in December 2017, the inside of the store honestly didn't look bad at all at the time. The entrance to the mall corridor was sealed off with glass instead of a solid wall, and they had large rolls of area rugs lined up vertically in front of it to try to keep the mall corridor hidden from view, but you could still see the mall corridor if you get real close to the rugs. I could see the mall corridor was trashed, but not quite as bad as it is now, which would probably explain the rat problem Rose's had fairly recently.

Heh...a guy was busted a few days ago for stealing copper wire from the old AC units on the roof.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/man-caught-on-mall-roof-plundering-ac-units/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/man-caught-on-mall-roof-plundering-ac-units/?pub=wilsontimes)
You'd think they would have relocated by now. I was looking at Hull's wikipedia page and it mentions that they own the Macon Mall as well which is considered a dead mall on wikipedia but I'm not sure if that one has been mentioned here or not.

Rose's will probably be gone within the next 2 years. If they relocate and don't leave Wilson altogether, they'll likely end up somewhere on Forest Hills Road or on US-264 Alternate near I-95 like the other 99% of new businesses that come to Wilson or relocate within the city.

Meanwhile, Rack Room Shoes is opening a "second" location here in Danville. I used quotations because Coleman Marketplace is literally within sight distance from the mall. We can pretty much guess what'll happen next...

https://godanriver.com/business/local/rack-room-shoes-adds-second-store-in-danville-with-new-coleman-marketplace-location/article_7ad68026-4d9e-11ed-8a10-4bc6bb3c6686.html#tracking-source=home-top-story (https://godanriver.com/business/local/rack-room-shoes-adds-second-store-in-danville-with-new-coleman-marketplace-location/article_7ad68026-4d9e-11ed-8a10-4bc6bb3c6686.html#tracking-source=home-top-story)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on October 17, 2022, 08:10:23 PM
I see Hull owns The Hudson Valley Mall in Ulster, NY as well.  Obviously not contained to the Southeast.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on October 17, 2022, 08:21:53 PM
I was watching this video here and noticed at the 4:19 mark a box from Bronner's Christmas Wonderland in Frankenmuth, Michigan which is about 20 miles from where I live. Speaking of Bronner's the wife of the founder of Bronner's just passed away yesterday at the age of 95.

But here's the video where the box is at the 4:19 mark. Just pretty ironic since this is a mall in North Carolina and even though Bronner's is a famous place it's still cool to see something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij5qOhn-M9s
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Henry on October 19, 2022, 10:27:39 AM
Reading up on the history of Dixie Square Mall; I read that it didn't last that long (1966-78). About the only memory I have of it is the car chase scene from The Blues Brothers, which was filmed one year after the mall closed:

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on October 19, 2022, 06:07:59 PM
Dixie Square Mall was probably the creepiest mall that I've ever been close up to. Harvey is a very depressing place to begin with.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: GCrites on October 19, 2022, 08:43:14 PM
It looked creepy in the movie. I don't know if it was the movie lighting, any redecorating the movie crew did or if it was just like that but man does it look weird for a mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: ErmineNotyours on October 24, 2022, 05:37:16 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 19, 2022, 10:27:39 AM
Reading up on the history of Dixie Square Mall; I read that it didn't last that long (1966-78). About the only memory I have of it is the car chase scene from The Blues Brothers, which was filmed one year after the mall closed:



More info about Dixie Square Mall and the Blues Brothers filming:

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: thenetwork on October 24, 2022, 10:17:48 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 24, 2022, 05:37:16 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 19, 2022, 10:27:39 AM
Reading up on the history of Dixie Square Mall; I read that it didn't last that long (1966-78). About the only memory I have of it is the car chase scene from The Blues Brothers, which was filmed one year after the mall closed:



More info about Dixie Square Mall and the Blues Brothers filming:



Doesn't Dixie Square Mall still have the distinctiosn of the longest standing abandoned mall ever?   Not to mention a mall that sat longer as an abandoned facility than an open facility?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on October 25, 2022, 08:06:21 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on October 24, 2022, 10:17:48 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 24, 2022, 05:37:16 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 19, 2022, 10:27:39 AM
Reading up on the history of Dixie Square Mall; I read that it didn't last that long (1966-78). About the only memory I have of it is the car chase scene from The Blues Brothers, which was filmed one year after the mall closed:



More info about Dixie Square Mall and the Blues Brothers filming:



Doesn't Dixie Square Mall still have the distinctiosn of the longest standing abandoned mall ever?   Not to mention a mall that sat longer as an abandoned facility than an open facility?
It might. I know it was abandoned for at least three times the amount of time it was open.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on October 29, 2022, 07:52:09 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 08:26:46 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 08:10:46 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 06:15:16 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 16, 2022, 03:10:30 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 16, 2022, 07:20:24 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 16, 2022, 07:14:18 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on October 15, 2022, 01:07:07 PM
Quote from: skluth on October 15, 2022, 11:14:49 AM
This may be the creepiest abandoned mall ever

I had to look for a minute to see where that mall was located. Here's another website about the mall: http://skycity2.blogspot.com/2017/12/parkwood-mallwilson-mall-wilson-nc.html

It's at the junction of ALT US 264 and NC 42 just north of ( west) of US 301.
Yep I found it. https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7248819,-77.9373745,314m/data=!3m1!1e3 it looks like the Rose's Discount Store is still open too.

I grew up in Fremont (a few miles south of Wilson) and we would often go to that mall during the 90's/2000's. That mall went to shit after Hull bought it. To say that they mismanaged it would be a huge understatement. They did everything they could to run it into the ground. They jacked up the rent, and when the tenants tried to get in touch with Hull over maintenance issues, Hull basically told them to fuck off and not bother them. Not one tenant in that mall had anything good to say about them (especially the owner of Carolina Outfitters, he was very vocal). Hull also drove away teenagers due to new rules they made. Needless to say, a lot of the mall tenants flocked to Heritage Crossing after it opened (those moves were also "assisted" by the Wilson City Council, who wanted more businesses near I-95).

After the mall closed in 2013, Hull bragged about how they were gonna tear down the mall and redevelop the property. That sounded good, until they asked the city council for an apparently hefty tax break. The city council refused, so Hull retaliated by letting the mall just sit there and rot. Hull also owns the mall here in Danville, VA and they're treating the tenants the same way they did in Wilson. They also started talking about redeveloping it (sound familiar?), so I expect this mall will close within the next few years and ask Danville for the tax break that Wilson wouldn't give.

As far as Rose's goes, yes they're still open, but being attached to a rotting mall has been causing issues. Not long before the pandemic began, they had to shut down for a while because of a rat infestation. My most recent visit there was in December 2017.

It sucks what happened to that mall. I have a lot of good memories there as a kid. Oh, and the name change sucked as well. As far as I'm concerned, it's still Parkwood. :coffee:
That is crazy. What is the reason that Rose's is still open at that location anyway? I think I would feel creepy inside that store knowing that the rest of the mall behind the wall that used to be the mall entrance is beyond creepy.

I'm not sure why they're still there, because when the mall closed in 2013, Hull initially said that all businesses that had an outside entrance could stay, but within the next 2 years, they suddenly started kicking them out too. The owners of Parkwood Barber Shop, which was near the main mall entrance, were pissed, because they had no idea they were gonna get the boot until they got their short notice. They ended up relocating to the corner of Forest Hills Road & Raleigh Road Parkway (US-264 Alternate) and reopened as Webb's Barber Shop. How Rose's survived that purge is beyond me.

I will say that when I was last stopped by Rose's in December 2017, the inside of the store honestly didn't look bad at all at the time. The entrance to the mall corridor was sealed off with glass instead of a solid wall, and they had large rolls of area rugs lined up vertically in front of it to try to keep the mall corridor hidden from view, but you could still see the mall corridor if you get real close to the rugs. I could see the mall corridor was trashed, but not quite as bad as it is now, which would probably explain the rat problem Rose's had fairly recently.

Heh...a guy was busted a few days ago for stealing copper wire from the old AC units on the roof.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/man-caught-on-mall-roof-plundering-ac-units/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/man-caught-on-mall-roof-plundering-ac-units/?pub=wilsontimes)
You'd think they would have relocated by now. I was looking at Hull's wikipedia page and it mentions that they own the Macon Mall as well which is considered a dead mall on wikipedia but I'm not sure if that one has been mentioned here or not.

The Wilson City Council just unanimously voted to buy the mall for $3 million.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/city-council-votes-to-buy-wilson-mall-for-3-million/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/city-council-votes-to-buy-wilson-mall-for-3-million/?pub=wilsontimes)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on December 10, 2022, 02:35:30 PM
Quote from: LM117 on October 29, 2022, 07:52:09 AMThe Wilson City Council just unanimously voted to buy the mall for $3 million.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/city-council-votes-to-buy-wilson-mall-for-3-million/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/city-council-votes-to-buy-wilson-mall-for-3-million/?pub=wilsontimes)

The city is seeking a FEMA grant to cover the cost of demolition.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/city-seeks-grant-for-wilson-mall-demolition-retention-pond/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/local-news/city-seeks-grant-for-wilson-mall-demolition-retention-pond/?pub=wilsontimes)

For those that hit a paywall:

QuoteThe city of Wilson hopes to secure Federal Emergency Management Agency money to help demolish the recently acquired Wilson Mall and build a regional water feature on the site.

The City Council on Thursday unanimously approved a resolution authorizing the city to apply for FEMA's Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities Grant.

The council authorized the vacant mall's purchase for $3 million using American Rescue Plan Act grant money at its October meeting. Shortly afterward, the city confirmed plans to build a stormwater feature, such as a retention pond surrounded by a park, where the former Kroger supermarket currently stands.

However, nothing can be done on the site until the city officials take possession of the property, which will follow a 120-day due diligence period and 30-day real estate closing.

According to a staff report from the council's agenda, the money used to purchase the mall will count toward a match for the grant.

The grant application authorization and all other agenda items that didn't require a public hearing were approved in a single unanimous vote on the council's consent agenda.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on December 12, 2022, 02:00:11 AM
Quote from: LM117 on December 10, 2022, 02:35:30 PM

QuoteThe city of Wilson hopes to secure Federal Emergency Management Agency money to help demolish the recently acquired Wilson Mall and build a regional water feature on the site.

The City Council on Thursday unanimously approved a resolution authorizing the city to apply for FEMA's Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities Grant.

The council authorized the vacant mall's purchase for $3 million using American Rescue Plan Act grant money at its October meeting. Shortly afterward, the city confirmed plans to build a stormwater feature, such as a retention pond surrounded by a park, where the former Kroger supermarket currently stands.

However, nothing can be done on the site until the city officials take possession of the property, which will follow a 120-day due diligence period and 30-day real estate closing.

According to a staff report from the council's agenda, the money used to purchase the mall will count toward a match for the grant.

The grant application authorization and all other agenda items that didn't require a public hearing were approved in a single unanimous vote on the council's consent agenda.

I do guess that some failed late 20th century local development schemes can be declared to be eligible for federal government disaster relief.

:wow:

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on December 13, 2022, 07:39:40 AM
What amazes me is some malls still stand despite losing their anchors. Military Mall in Norfolk, VA is one. University Mall in Tampa, FL is another.  However University Mall does feature Burlington Brands which could be considered an anchor despite its small size.

Then in Hutchinson, KS you have a very dead mall who lists the nearby Home Depot as an anchor being desperate to be seen online as a regular mall with such a tenant.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Stephane Dumas on December 17, 2022, 01:56:36 PM
The Hamilton City Centre mall in Hamilton, Ontario will get the visit of the wrecking ball soon.
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9818323&postcount=1466
There's a interesting reply at the bottom of the page.
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9818545&postcount=1470
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: iowahighways on December 18, 2022, 03:09:21 PM
Valley West Mall in West Des Moines was a thriving mall for years, but it went downhill after losing Younkers (as did virtually every mall in Iowa when Bon-Ton went under) in 2018 and it lost Von Maur (which had been there since 1976) to Jordan Creek Town Center last month. It also recently went through foreclosure.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/local/west-des-moines/2022/12/06/new-plan-for-development-in-valley-west-mall-area-moves-forward/69703265007/

Side note: Newer editions of the Rand McNally Road Atlas prematurely call it "Valley West Commons Mall" even though redevelopment hasn't even started.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Bruce on December 19, 2022, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 08, 2020, 10:46:27 PM
The Shoppes at Riverside near Aberdeen, Washington has a big hole in it.  Street View. (https://goo.gl/maps/GeP2Hu9nR3XpdELd7)

A little update: the entire indoor section of the mall closed in February 2021 due to some structural issues. Turns out the soil beneath (which is actually filled swampland) settled and left gaps.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: jakeroot on December 30, 2022, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: Bruce on December 19, 2022, 11:04:06 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on May 08, 2020, 10:46:27 PM
The Shoppes at Riverside near Aberdeen, Washington has a big hole in it.  Street View. (https://goo.gl/maps/GeP2Hu9nR3XpdELd7)

A little update: the entire indoor section of the mall closed in February 2021 due to some structural issues. Turns out the soil beneath (which is actually filled swampland) settled and left gaps.

I went and checked out that mall back in July 2020, took quite a few pictures of the interior, but I cannot find the pictures that I took.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on April 25, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Latest on the Wilson Mall:

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/wilson-christian-academy-students-tell-mayor-their-ideas-for-wilson-mall-property/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/wilson-christian-academy-students-tell-mayor-their-ideas-for-wilson-mall-property/?pub=wilsontimes)

QuoteAfter the recognition, Roger Lentz, the city's planning and development services director, provided the council and students a brief update on the project. He said the city is still going through the process of purchasing the vacant mall.

"We don't quite own it yet,"  Lentz said. "We've got environmental studies we're doing."  

In October, the council authorized the $3 million property purchase using an American Rescue Plan Act grant. The city also hopes to secure Federal Emergency Management Agency funds to help demolish the property and build a regional water feature on a portion of the site. Plans will include a retention pond surrounded by a park where the former Kroger supermarket currently stands.

"We're going to have about 20 acres give or take that's left,"  Lentz said.

He said the city plans to find a private development partner like the city has done on many other projects that will be beneficial to the community but also could be supported by consumers. He said there would be a chance for public input on the site's use.

Lentz said the city hopes to have the mall purchased sometime this summer, and demolition would start soon after.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on June 15, 2023, 07:26:09 AM
Well the former empty Sears store in Lakeland Square Mall in Lakeland, FL will be torn down for 320 units of housing.
https://www.newsbreak.com/lakeland-fl/3057197766339-former-lakeland-sears-building-to-be-demolished-for-multifamily-housing
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on June 15, 2023, 11:08:06 AM
The big downtown mall in San Francisco, CA is being returned to its lender.

:wow:

Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 15, 2023, 11:15:34 AM
I haven't been inside any malls lately. Fashion Square Mall near me has been dying for years. Sears closed in 2019 and that is the only empty anchor store. Macy's and JCPenney are still holding on but there isn't much in between. The food court only has a Mediterranean grill, a place called Yummy Japan and I believe one other place but the mall is pretty empty based on the last time I was there. The mall has about 100 or so spaces but probably only has about 20-30 of them filled.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Thing 342 on June 16, 2023, 09:36:47 PM
It's been a brutal couple of years for malls in the Hampton Roads area:

Military Circle Mall in Norfolk finally got the axe earlier this year, with most of the remaining tenants moving to nearby JANAF.

Greenbrier Mall in Chesapeake was foreclosed in October 2022 and has been bleeding tenants;

MacArthur Center, previously the tentpole mall for the area, is now in major distress and is likely going to be acquired by the city of Norfolk: https://www.wtkr.com/news/norfolk-preparing-to-buy-macarthur-center

This leaves Patrick Henry Mall and Lynnhaven Mall as the two healthiest malls in the region.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Dough4872 on June 16, 2023, 09:57:30 PM
Lot of dying malls in the Philadelphia area. Just in Southeastern Pennsylvania we have Plymouth Meeting Mall, Montgomery Mall, Neshaminy Mall, and Exton Square Mall which have lots of vacant stores. Also had some malls that closed in recent years such as Granite Run Mall and redeveloped. I'm sure a lot of this has to do with the rise of online shopping but also the prominence of King of Prussia Mall, which is one of the largest and most successful malls in the country.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on June 17, 2023, 05:59:58 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on June 16, 2023, 09:36:47 PM
It's been a brutal couple of years for malls in the Hampton Roads area:

Military Circle Mall in Norfolk finally got the axe earlier this year, with most of the remaining tenants moving to nearby JANAF.

Greenbrier Mall in Chesapeake was foreclosed in October 2022 and has been bleeding tenants;

MacArthur Center, previously the tentpole mall for the area, is now in major distress and is likely going to be acquired by the city of Norfolk: https://www.wtkr.com/news/norfolk-preparing-to-buy-macarthur-center

This leaves Patrick Henry Mall and Lynnhaven Mall as the two healthiest malls in the region.

Military Mall has been dead since it lost its retail anchors.  Having a movie theater as its sole anchor shows it's prominently in the area.

If they flatten it for other development, they're giving it its proper burial.

Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Billy F 1988 on June 17, 2023, 07:40:44 PM
Southgate Mall in Missoula will soon end up a shell of its former glory the way they keep spiking rent amounts so high that those like Scheels, Herbergers, H&M, Red Robin, Orange Julius, and others, may as well give the big middle finger to their scum corporate lords and highball it out of town. No need for these chain stores and their franchisee management teams to get sucked dry of their keep. And, boom. Wouldn't 'ya know? MORE UNAFFORDABLE CONDOS! Yay! Ain't Missoula great? (yah I know ' you're gonna say no, and I don't doubt it one bit! :D)
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on June 19, 2023, 08:42:16 AM
The city of Wilson has finally taken ownership of the Wilson Mall. Demolition on the property is expected to begin by fall.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes)

For those getting paywalled:

QuoteThe city of Wilson now owns the former Wilson Mall, and officials are moving forward with plans to start tearing down buildings on the site.

The transaction for the 45-acre property closed on June 6, according to Rebecca Agner, the city's communications and marketing director. In October, Wilson City Council approved the $3 million purchase of the property from Hull Property Group.

Assistant City Manager Rodger Lentz said at Thursday's City Council meeting that the city doesn't own everything on the former mall site. The city owns 45-acres of the property.

The city now owns the mall building itself, the parking lots that back up to Parkwood on the backside where Sears used to be, Roses, the old Kroger building, a bank building and the building where The Alibi is located.

"We are now their landlord,"  Lentz said.

Hull will continue to own some of the outparcels, including AMC Classic Wilson 10 movie theater.

City officials are now working on a demolition plan for the former freestanding Kroger building and the bank building near Parkwood Boulevard and Ward Boulevard.

"Hopefully by fall you should see some activity there for demolishing those two buildings,"  Lentz said. "The Albi's lease runs out at the end of September, then we will proceed to demolish that building."  

He said the first thing people will see is the Kroger and the bank coming down. A "massive"  stormwater pipe goes through that portion of the property, he said. Lentz added it's where the city will be concentrating on constructing both the stormwater improvement and a park on approximately 20 acres.

Lentz said the city is working with Roses to find a new Wilson location before the store's lease runs out in the fall of 2025.

City officials have to determine how to safely tear down the mall, he said, while Roses is still operating. Roses is located in the space that first housed Belk Tyler when it opened at Parkwood Mall in February of 1979.

"We are going to be working on that solution after we finish with Kroger and the bank,"  Lentz said.

Hull purchased Parkwood Mall in 2005, did some upgrades and added the theater. But over the years, tenants, including Belk, followed a national trend and left the mall for other locations. City residents have watched as the Wilson Mall property has slowly decayed since it closed in 2013.

Now that the sale is complete, city crews have taken steps to secure the property, Lentz said.

Vandalism has been an issue since the mall closed.

"There will be weekly inspections to make sure it stays secure, and Wilson Energy has been out there to make sure all the lighting around the mall is going to be operational for all the property we own."

New boards have also been placed on windows and doors.

Agner said the city expects to find out this summer if it will receive grant funding for aspects of the park.

The Times previously reported that the city used money from the American Rescue Plan Act for the purchase, with the city allocating $2 million for commercial redevelopment from the nearly $16 million it received.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on June 19, 2023, 09:09:34 AM
Not really a mall, but the Silver Lane Plaza Shopping Center in East Hartford, CT will soon be no more:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwimkM7Us8__AhUnFVkFHUcyDs4QFnoECCIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.courant.com%2F2023%2F05%2F07%2Feast-hartford-facing-summer-of-demolition-as-redevelopment-progresses%2F&usg=AOvVaw1KS_FoboM4W5kOQZxZxMeU&opi=89978449
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on June 27, 2023, 11:01:10 AM
GSV captured a Macys with zero cars in its lot. Whether the car came early in the day, might be. However I thought someone on here mentioned Flint, MI having a dying mall?
https://goo.gl/maps/RxUnoVuNy95npuQW9
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 27, 2023, 11:58:16 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 27, 2023, 11:01:10 AM
GSV captured a Macys with zero cars in its lot. Whether the car came early in the day, might be. However I thought someone on here mentioned Flint, MI having a dying mall?
https://goo.gl/maps/RxUnoVuNy95npuQW9
It was probably me since I'm the one in here that talks about Saginaw and Flint the most. That's Genesee Valley Mall in the GSV, if you go into the mall parking lot on GSV the view there is only two months prior to the one on Miller Road that you were looking at. The Flint area actually has two malls, the other is Courtland Center and that mall is more dead than Genesee Valley. I went in there and walked one day and counted more vacant storefronts than anything.

Here's the GSV from two months prior I was talking about, https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9776026,-83.7695363,3a,24.8y,15.98h,92.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sq2550dCi7qHL9YIxQJS6GA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Dq2550dCi7qHL9YIxQJS6GA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D303.46313%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on June 28, 2023, 05:39:02 AM
Still that image two months prior didn't have what stores once had in auto attendance. Considering malls were the place to shop in cold weather, you figure the malls would last longer in Michigan than say Texas or Florida.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on June 28, 2023, 10:35:14 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 28, 2023, 05:39:02 AM
Still that image two months prior didn't have what stores once had in auto attendance. Considering malls were the place to shop in cold weather, you figure the malls would last longer in Michigan than say Texas or Florida.
Malls are dead all over the place these malls in Michigan are dying a slow death but are indeed dying. Sears no longer has a presence in Michigan either, the Sears at Genesee Valley was one of the last Sears to close in Michigan it closed about 5 years ago, there are only two anchor stores left in this mall Macy's (formerly Hudson's) and JCPenney. There was a Burlington Coat Factory but that space is vacant too, it used to be a Mervyn's.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: hotdogPi on June 28, 2023, 10:37:05 AM
Malls seem to be doing well in my area. Even the ones with taxes; the Burlington Mall just expanded, and the Northshore Mall is doing well as far as I know.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: MATraveler128 on June 28, 2023, 01:00:20 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 28, 2023, 10:37:05 AM
Malls seem to be doing well in my area. Even the ones with taxes; the Burlington Mall just expanded, and the Northshore Mall is doing well as far as I know.

Even places like Liberty Tree are starting to make a comeback. They've since opened a gym and most recently an Aldi. Meanwhile you have places like Square One Mall which are dying a slow death.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on November 06, 2023, 08:10:05 AM
Quote from: LM117 on June 19, 2023, 08:42:16 AM
The city of Wilson has finally taken ownership of the Wilson Mall. Demolition on the property is expected to begin by fall.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes)

The demolition could take up to a year or more.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/mall-demolition-process-could-take-a-year/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/mall-demolition-process-could-take-a-year/?pub=wilsontimes)

QuoteAssistant City Manager Rodger Lentz told City Council on Thursday that it could be a year or longer before the city-owned Wilson Mall is torn down.

Lentz announced at the monthly work session that a contract will soon be awarded for asbestos removal from the roof of the former Wilson Mall.

Director of Public Works Bill Bass said demolition comes in two phases, meaning the mall may not actually be torn down for another year or so. He said the planning phase, including an environmental assessment, could take 10 months to complete. From there, the city will be able to tear down the property.

The mall's purchase was made possible through a federal grant with the American Rescue Plan Act. Federal grant projects, like Wilson's train station and the Reid Street Community Center, require environmental assessments and must be approved before projects can move forward.

"It doesn't just mean you're looking to see if there's an endangered critter out there," Lentz said. "It's a very thorough environmental report."

Lentz said environmental assessments are lengthy and take a number of factors into consideration, such as disturbing historic significance.

"I was ready to start the Reid Street Project six months ago," Lentz said. "You can't spend money or do any work until you get this clearance, and if an agency says, 'Wait a minute, I have more questions.' It could take even longer."

City Manager Grant Goings said the problem of timeliness isn't unique to Wilson.

"Cities all over America are dealing with this," Goings said. "We're just in the same boat as everybody else. In addition to bureaucratic delays, most cities in America got this grant money at the exact same time. I couldn't tell you how long it's going to take to pass these dollar through. It's just going to take however long it's going to take."

Lentz said the city is able to demolish the mall without touching or harming Roses, which still operates in the former Belk building.

"Roses is a completely standalone building, so there might be some blocking up that we have to do on the entrance that would've gone into the mall, but we can go ahead with demolition up to the Roses." Lentz said.

Lentz also addressed the pavement resurfacing in front of AMC theater. Lentz said the resurfacing was not the city's doing. The Augusta, Georgia-based Hull Property Group still owns the mall's outparcels, including AMC Classic 10's facility. The paving was a curious choice to Lentz, who wondered why the property owners would pave the parking lot before demolition on the mall's outparcels was complete.

"It's their money," Lentz said. "I suppose they can do what they want to with it."

I was in Wilson last month and stopped by the mall. The old Kroger building was already being torn down and should be long gone by now. I dropped in Roses and asked one of the employees how much longer Roses is gonna remain there. The guy told me they would be there until 2025.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on November 06, 2023, 08:45:27 AM
Quote from: LM117 on November 06, 2023, 08:10:05 AM
Quote from: LM117 on June 19, 2023, 08:42:16 AM
The city of Wilson has finally taken ownership of the Wilson Mall. Demolition on the property is expected to begin by fall.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes)

The demolition could take up to a year or more.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/mall-demolition-process-could-take-a-year/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/mall-demolition-process-could-take-a-year/?pub=wilsontimes)

QuoteAssistant City Manager Rodger Lentz told City Council on Thursday that it could be a year or longer before the city-owned Wilson Mall is torn down.

Lentz announced at the monthly work session that a contract will soon be awarded for asbestos removal from the roof of the former Wilson Mall.

Director of Public Works Bill Bass said demolition comes in two phases, meaning the mall may not actually be torn down for another year or so. He said the planning phase, including an environmental assessment, could take 10 months to complete. From there, the city will be able to tear down the property.

The mall's purchase was made possible through a federal grant with the American Rescue Plan Act. Federal grant projects, like Wilson's train station and the Reid Street Community Center, require environmental assessments and must be approved before projects can move forward.

"It doesn't just mean you're looking to see if there's an endangered critter out there," Lentz said. "It's a very thorough environmental report."

Lentz said environmental assessments are lengthy and take a number of factors into consideration, such as disturbing historic significance.

"I was ready to start the Reid Street Project six months ago," Lentz said. "You can't spend money or do any work until you get this clearance, and if an agency says, 'Wait a minute, I have more questions.' It could take even longer."

City Manager Grant Goings said the problem of timeliness isn't unique to Wilson.

"Cities all over America are dealing with this," Goings said. "We're just in the same boat as everybody else. In addition to bureaucratic delays, most cities in America got this grant money at the exact same time. I couldn't tell you how long it's going to take to pass these dollar through. It's just going to take however long it's going to take."

Lentz said the city is able to demolish the mall without touching or harming Roses, which still operates in the former Belk building.

"Roses is a completely standalone building, so there might be some blocking up that we have to do on the entrance that would've gone into the mall, but we can go ahead with demolition up to the Roses." Lentz said.

Lentz also addressed the pavement resurfacing in front of AMC theater. Lentz said the resurfacing was not the city's doing. The Augusta, Georgia-based Hull Property Group still owns the mall's outparcels, including AMC Classic 10's facility. The paving was a curious choice to Lentz, who wondered why the property owners would pave the parking lot before demolition on the mall's outparcels was complete.

"It's their money," Lentz said. "I suppose they can do what they want to with it."

I was in Wilson last month and stopped by the mall. The old Kroger building was already being torn down and should be long gone by now. I dropped in Roses and asked one of the employees how much longer Roses is gonna remain there. The guy told me they would be there until 2025.
That Kroger store didn't last too long there like only about 4-5 years wasn't it?
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on November 06, 2023, 10:53:56 AM
What gets me is the Mall in Hutchinson in Hutchinson, KS has only one or two stores inside it with over a hundred non vacated stores.

However to save the mall, popular stores like Dollar Tree and Home Depot were allowed to open on mall property, but no inside access to them from the mall. The former is in the mall building but access only from outside with the latter being built across the parking lot from the building, but still on mall property.

That maybe why the mall remains open despite being only 2 percent full inside. As the big guys keep money flowing to climate control the empty mall.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on November 06, 2023, 12:44:02 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 28, 2023, 05:39:02 AM
Still that image two months prior didn't have what stores once had in auto attendance. Considering malls were the place to shop in cold weather, you figure the malls would last longer in Michigan than say Texas or Florida.
Next time I'm in Flint which is pretty often I'll stop by to take a picture from that spot to see if more cars are there or not.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: LM117 on November 06, 2023, 02:49:02 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on November 06, 2023, 08:45:27 AM
Quote from: LM117 on November 06, 2023, 08:10:05 AM
Quote from: LM117 on June 19, 2023, 08:42:16 AM
The city of Wilson has finally taken ownership of the Wilson Mall. Demolition on the property is expected to begin by fall.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/city-making-plans-to-tear-down-buildings-at-former-wilson-mall/?pub=wilsontimes)

The demolition could take up to a year or more.

https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/mall-demolition-process-could-take-a-year/?pub=wilsontimes (https://restorationnewsmedia.com/articles/wilsontimes/mall-demolition-process-could-take-a-year/?pub=wilsontimes)

QuoteAssistant City Manager Rodger Lentz told City Council on Thursday that it could be a year or longer before the city-owned Wilson Mall is torn down.

Lentz announced at the monthly work session that a contract will soon be awarded for asbestos removal from the roof of the former Wilson Mall.

Director of Public Works Bill Bass said demolition comes in two phases, meaning the mall may not actually be torn down for another year or so. He said the planning phase, including an environmental assessment, could take 10 months to complete. From there, the city will be able to tear down the property.

The mall's purchase was made possible through a federal grant with the American Rescue Plan Act. Federal grant projects, like Wilson's train station and the Reid Street Community Center, require environmental assessments and must be approved before projects can move forward.

"It doesn't just mean you're looking to see if there's an endangered critter out there," Lentz said. "It's a very thorough environmental report."

Lentz said environmental assessments are lengthy and take a number of factors into consideration, such as disturbing historic significance.

"I was ready to start the Reid Street Project six months ago," Lentz said. "You can't spend money or do any work until you get this clearance, and if an agency says, 'Wait a minute, I have more questions.' It could take even longer."

City Manager Grant Goings said the problem of timeliness isn't unique to Wilson.

"Cities all over America are dealing with this," Goings said. "We're just in the same boat as everybody else. In addition to bureaucratic delays, most cities in America got this grant money at the exact same time. I couldn't tell you how long it's going to take to pass these dollar through. It's just going to take however long it's going to take."

Lentz said the city is able to demolish the mall without touching or harming Roses, which still operates in the former Belk building.

"Roses is a completely standalone building, so there might be some blocking up that we have to do on the entrance that would've gone into the mall, but we can go ahead with demolition up to the Roses." Lentz said.

Lentz also addressed the pavement resurfacing in front of AMC theater. Lentz said the resurfacing was not the city's doing. The Augusta, Georgia-based Hull Property Group still owns the mall's outparcels, including AMC Classic 10's facility. The paving was a curious choice to Lentz, who wondered why the property owners would pave the parking lot before demolition on the mall's outparcels was complete.

"It's their money," Lentz said. "I suppose they can do what they want to with it."

I was in Wilson last month and stopped by the mall. The old Kroger building was already being torn down and should be long gone by now. I dropped in Roses and asked one of the employees how much longer Roses is gonna remain there. The guy told me they would be there until 2025.
That Kroger store didn't last too long there like only about 4-5 years wasn't it?

3 years. It opened in 2001 and closed in 2004. I was living in Fremont (a few miles south of Wilson) when it was open. There used to be a Kroger gas station beside it, which was torn down sometime between 2012 and 2015, a few years after I left NC. You can see it from Ward Blvd in the June 2012 Google Streetview image.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: SectorZ on November 06, 2023, 05:11:12 PM
The Solomon Pond Mall in Marlboro/Berlin, MA is starting to see a ton of vacancies in it. I wouldn't be surprised if this mall has only a decade or so left in it before it gets closed. It's in such an odd area, which didn't seem to hurt it too much, but in 2019 around this same time of year I noticed it seemed to be a little off compared to prior years. The food court has gone from all normal places to just Burger King and bootleg versions of what used to be there (like a pizza place where the Pizzeria Regina used to be).

Given the Greenfield Mall ten miles west died out about 5 years ago, you'd think it would be better for them, but it looks as if new big box development in nearby Hudson is putting a dent into it.

Makes me wonder if all the similar stuff going up in Salem NH next to the Rockingham Park Mall will lead to problems for them down the road. Given it's Simon's highest grossing mall per square foot the fall is very far away, and Burlington Mall has seemed to thrive with lots around it, so maybe its a different situation. Both just lost two anchors over the past few years, so who knows.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: roadman65 on March 13, 2024, 01:21:20 PM
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1HmaBPD85e2XrvAw7
Found one in Augusta, GA.
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: mgk920 on March 21, 2024, 07:58:31 PM
over 20 years after closing, Northridge Mall (Milwaukee, WI) finally meets with the demo contractor.

:nod:

https://waukradio.com/news/2024/03/20/the-teardown-of-northridge-mall-is-finally-happening
Mike
Title: Re: Dead Malls
Post by: Flint1979 on March 22, 2024, 01:36:54 PM
I spent Tuesday and Wednesday in Detroit and stopped at a few malls.

First mall on Tuesday I stopped at Somerset Collection in Troy which is more of a luxary mall and one of the more profitable malls in the country. Both Somerset North and Somerset South are doing well.

On Wednesday, I stopped first at Twelve Oaks Mall in Novi which is also still doing well despite having two vacant anchors that wasn't the mall's fault, those being Lord & Taylor which is out of business completely I believe and Sears which no longer has a presence in the state.

The two malls above are in much better shape than the third mall I visited also on Wednesday. That mall being Westland Center in Westland. Westland appears to be in the same shape that Eastland was in 15 years ago but the crime rate in the area is much lower at Westland than it was at Eastland. The carpeting in the mall has duct tape in spots to cover up rips in the carpet and I really have no idea why there is carpeting in the areas that have it. This is one of only two of the directional malls left in the Detroit area with Southland being the other one. Northland and Eastland are both closed for good.

I also stopped into Fairlane Mall in Dearborn. It's doing somewhat better than Westland is and in better shape but it's not as busy as it used to be. I walked the mall about an hour before the mall closed and there were people in there but not that much.