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Regional Boards => Northwest => Topic started by: Quillz on September 07, 2011, 08:02:45 PM

Title: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Quillz on September 07, 2011, 08:02:45 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg813.imageshack.us%2Fimg813%2F2743%2Fus30portland.png&hash=5522dbf926411736df3fa1c001d14864c73c02b8) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/813/us30portland.png/)

I'm a bit confused how this works out. What I highlighted in blue is what I believe to be the "official" alignment of US-30 through Portland. But what I have in red is also signed as US-30, at least on Google Maps, and uses a number of freeways, eventually meeting the blue portion (off the map), where it becomes a de facto business route for I-84.

I know that the canceled I-505 would have fit between the blue portion of US-30 and I-405, but what about the freeway section in the southern part of the city? Is this signed, and if so, why isn't it something like 30S, or 30 Alt?
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: corco on September 07, 2011, 08:06:35 PM
Nope- the blue is US-30 Bypass, and the rest is signed as 30
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2For%2F30%2F433to30byp%2F14.JPG&hash=bd49531f355e2924f49da6a8f8d7f8acc00e8ed6)

The red line is signed as 30 the whole way
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2For%2F30%2F30bypto405%2F3.JPG&hash=a8ac47abd16236e5bc0c843c7aaad92e3e996d0d)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2For%2F30%2F30bypto405%2F6.JPG&hash=6ce51c923de354dc8711059a481bc7120417feab)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2For%2F30%2F405to5%2F3.JPG&hash=5ba305d65488d763afa778384499830421d23374)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2For%2F30%2F5to84%2F1.JPG&hash=1a46ee1afafa080251de948761c206c76d457fde)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2For%2F84%2F5to213%2F4.JPG&hash=951d5b2ac60f3b1454de6a5fbfd5ec02d7dcd377)

30 bypass from I-205
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davidjcorcoran.com%2Fhighways%2For%2F205%2Fwato30byp%2F5.JPG&hash=03fa41235582ef13bea889fd7ef0ebfe1d5b89c5)

I'll just direct you to my pages on the matter (http://www.davidjcorcoran.com/highways/or/blog/?page_id=6) for signage on mainline 30- part of my aborted attempt to drive every mile of state highway in Oregon

I haven't driven 30 bypass
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Quillz on September 07, 2011, 08:18:10 PM
Well, I guess that explains it. I was in Portland during the early part of August, drove by both stretches several times, and somehow never noticed it was signed as "BYPASS."

But does the bypass have reassurance markers? If so, do they also say "BYPASS?"
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: corco on September 07, 2011, 08:19:55 PM
I believe so- I'm sure one of the Oregonians on here have photos to confirm.

Yeah, it's kind of weird because 30 Bypass is deprecated- you definitely wouldn't use it to bypass Portland anymore!
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on September 07, 2011, 11:28:08 PM
I'm not really sure why U.S. 30 exists at all in Oregon since it is almost entirely multiplexed with I-84 except for west of Portland and a few stretches that are for all intents and purposes I-84 Business Loops (except that Oregon doesn't use Interstate business loops - they are all signed as either U.S. 30, or Oregon 99.)

However...now that U.S. 30 Business has been retired (a.k.a. Sandy Boulevard) why not change U.S. 30 Bypass into U.S. 30 Business?  Or...why is any of it even signed, since virtually nobody locally uses the U.S. 30 designation but rather the individual street names (St. Johns Bridge, Lombard, North Portland Highway, Kilingsworth, Sandy)?  From I-5 to I-205 serves as an expressway but west and east of those two freeways it's nothing more than local city streets.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on September 07, 2011, 11:32:14 PM
Quote from: corco on September 07, 2011, 08:19:55 PM
I believe so- I'm sure one of the Oregonians on here have photos to confirm.

It's pretty well-signed along its entire length, except at the very eastern end.  Here are some typical assemblies:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BYPWoodVillage1.jpg%3Ft%3D1315451588&hash=a90f0cbf3b2f80195443ea2d3c00b027ab241ccb)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BYPPortland1.jpg%3Ft%3D1315452007&hash=d873562197cddf821f433fc26e8a425a4d16b120)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BYPParkrose1.jpg%3Ft%3D1315452130&hash=e4d288724a60f2bf2b17663ae90bde1d8d64edb5)

QuoteYeah, it's kind of weird because 30 Bypass is deprecated- you definitely wouldn't use it to bypass Portland anymore!

It's still not too bad as far as a surface-street routing across a major city, but, yeah, you'd do better staying on 30 itself.

Just for sentimentality's sake, here are some shots of the recently-departed BUS 30:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BYP-US30BUSParkrose2.jpg%3Ft%3D1315452387&hash=3b68e77bb6c06a87e6ec5126ca9fc023eaf37ef3)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BUSPortland1.jpg%3Ft%3D1315452562&hash=cf6e0e8796602682efa9519f09bafe10bfc55aee)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BUSParkrose2.jpg%3Ft%3D1315452651&hash=cd87f1c91bd4afd4920db6d8b966296470ace856)
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Quillz on September 07, 2011, 11:34:31 PM
Well, there's no real reason to get rid of it. Signing it throughout the state allows it to be a complete, non-broken route (with the segment between Astoria and Portland still well-traveled), and, as you pointed out, it is a de factor business route for I-84. And outside of Oregon, it follows a different, but still close, path from I-84.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on September 07, 2011, 11:40:19 PM
Quote from: sp_redelectric on September 07, 2011, 11:28:08 PM
I'm not really sure why U.S. 30 exists at all in Oregon since it is almost entirely multiplexed with I-84 except for west of Portland and a few stretches that are for all intents and purposes I-84 Business Loops (except that Oregon doesn't use Interstate business loops - they are all signed as either U.S. 30, or Oregon 99.)

Suits me fine, though; I really don't like interstate business loops.  But Oregon seems to have no problem with this, as they've continued to sign the concurrency for decades.  Personally, I'd really hate to see the elimination of one of the few cross-country routes remaining.

QuoteHowever...now that U.S. 30 Business has been retired (a.k.a. Sandy Boulevard) why not change U.S. 30 Bypass into U.S. 30 Business?  Or...why is any of it even signed, since virtually nobody locally uses the U.S. 30 designation but rather the individual street names (St. Johns Bridge, Lombard, North Portland Highway, Kilingsworth, Sandy)?  From I-5 to I-205 serves as an expressway but west and east of those two freeways it's nothing more than local city streets.

It is a state highway, so keeping with the post-2002 move to designate routes on all state highways, it would still probably have some kind of route number, anyway.  So it might as well be a bannered branch of US 30, as it connects with the mainline on both ends.

As for BUS vs BYP, I'd say ALT would be an even better designation than either.  BTW, there was once an ALT 30 in Portland, so there's some precedent there.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 07, 2011, 11:51:45 PM
has Oregon ever had a business loop or spur?  I've never seen an example of one.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: corco on September 08, 2011, 12:08:06 AM
Quotehas Oregon ever had a business loop or spur?  I've never seen an example of one.
?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BUSParkrose2.jpg%3Ft%3D1315452651&hash=cd87f1c91bd4afd4920db6d8b966296470ace856)

If you mean interstates, I don't think so
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: agentsteel53 on September 08, 2011, 12:30:56 AM
Quote from: corco on September 08, 2011, 12:08:06 AM
If you mean interstates, I don't think so

that's what I meant - interstate.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Quillz on September 08, 2011, 02:11:12 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 07, 2011, 11:51:45 PM
has Oregon ever had a business loop or spur?  I've never seen an example of one.
Apparently, Oregon does not sign business routes/loops/spurs. Instead, they use Oregon 99 for I-5 and US-30 for I-84. More or less the same concept, but US-30 is generally signed, while Oregon 99 does not seem to be concurrent with I-5 at all, except in a few short segments.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on September 08, 2011, 03:53:16 AM
OR 99 has seven concurrencies with I-5 (eight, counting OR 99E from Albany to Salem), the longest from Grants Pass (exit 58 to Canyonville (exit 93). This does not include an unsigned and unrecognized 'concurrency' from Red Bluff to Ashland...
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: andytom on September 08, 2011, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: xonhulu on September 07, 2011, 11:32:14 PM

QuoteYeah, it's kind of weird because 30 Bypass is deprecated- you definitely wouldn't use it to bypass Portland anymore!

It's still not too bad as far as a surface-street routing across a major city, but, yeah, you'd do better staying on 30 itself.


Most of the time, yes.  Rush hour, definitely not.  If I have to get to the airport from Beaverton at 4PM, Barnes-Burnside-Sandy-82nd will get me there a lot faster than 26-405-5-84-205, particularly on a Friday.  On occasion, it's taken me an hour and a half to get from Beaverton to Troutdale by freeway in the Friday PM rush.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: mtantillo on September 08, 2011, 07:12:02 PM
I was just
Quote from: andytom on September 08, 2011, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: xonhulu on September 07, 2011, 11:32:14 PM

QuoteYeah, it's kind of weird because 30 Bypass is deprecated- you definitely wouldn't use it to bypass Portland anymore!

It's still not too bad as far as a surface-street routing across a major city, but, yeah, you'd do better staying on 30 itself.


Most of the time, yes.  Rush hour, definitely not.  If I have to get to the airport from Beaverton at 4PM, Barnes-Burnside-Sandy-82nd will get me there a lot faster than 26-405-5-84-205, particularly on a Friday.  On occasion, it's taken me an hour and a half to get from Beaverton to Troutdale by freeway in the Friday PM rush.


I was just in Portand, and I was horrified at how awful Friday afternoon congestion is there! 
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on September 08, 2011, 08:54:00 PM
Quote from: andytom on September 08, 2011, 03:45:22 PM
Most of the time, yes.  Rush hour, definitely not.  If I have to get to the airport from Beaverton at 4PM, Barnes-Burnside-Sandy-82nd will get me there a lot faster than 26-405-5-84-205, particularly on a Friday.  On occasion, it's taken me an hour and a half to get from Beaverton to Troutdale by freeway in the Friday PM rush.

Glad I live in Salem.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on October 01, 2011, 12:50:43 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 07, 2011, 11:51:45 PM
has Oregon ever had a business loop or spur?  I've never seen an example of one.

Not on the interstate highway system, but there is:

Business U.S. 101 (the old Highway 101 along the south side of Youngs Bay from Warrenton to Astoria)
Business U.S. 20 through Toledo
Business U.S. 30 in Ontario (!!)
Business U.S. 97 in Bend and in Klamath Falls (the one in Bend is relatively new)

Business Oregon 18 through Sheridan and Willamina
Business Oregon 126 in Eugene
Business Oregon 99E in Salem

U.S. 95 Spur connecting Oregon 201 with Weiser, Idaho and U.S. 95

Oregon 104 Spur (unsigned) between U.S. 101 in Warrenton and Hammond

And three suffixed routes:  Oregon 42S, 99W and 99E.

Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on October 01, 2011, 01:27:24 AM
Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 01, 2011, 12:50:43 AM
Business U.S. 101 (the old Highway 101 along the south side of Youngs Bay from Warrenton to Astoria)

I've always thought it should be ALT 101, as it really doesn't serve a major business district.  Either that, or just call it OR 105, using its hidden highway number.

QuoteBusiness U.S. 97 in Bend and in Klamath Falls (the one in Bend is relatively new)

There's also a Business 97 in Redmond, since that city's bypass was completed.

QuoteOregon 104 Spur (unsigned) between U.S. 101 in Warrenton and Hammond

Believe it or not, it was briefly signed, and here's the photo to prove it:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FOregon%2520State%2520Routes%2FOR104SPURWarrenton1.jpg%3Ft%3D1317446641&hash=b1d0b5138ad6f46fbc97991b58d5cefbacdc8450)

And there's also an unsigned SPUR 86 in Halfway, and an unsigned SPUR 422 in Chiloquin.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on October 01, 2011, 12:32:53 PM
Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 01, 2011, 12:50:43 AM
Oregon 104 Spur (unsigned) between U.S. 101 in Warrenton and Hammond

And three suffixed routes:  Oregon 42S, 99W and 99E.

I should add that some ODOT documents (like  http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/otms/Route_Hwy_CrossRef.shtml#Oregon_Routes )  refer to the state route spurs with an 'S' suffix, so they are 86S, 104S, and 422S.  So that begs the question: is "42S" short for "42 South" or "42 Spur?"  I had always assumed it was "South," but now I'm not so sure.  Anyone know?
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: NE2 on October 01, 2011, 02:13:14 PM
Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 01, 2011, 12:50:43 AM
Business U.S. 97 in Bend and in Klamath Falls (the one in Bend is relatively new)
The current one in Bend is recent, but before the Bend Parkway there was an older business route on Wall Street and I'm not sure what else.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: OCGuy81 on October 02, 2011, 01:32:14 PM
Getting back to the question about US 30 in Portland, last time I drove from Vancouver, WA through north Portland, the signs at the north end of 405, IIRC, read 405/26.  I didn't think US 26 was routed along the Freemont Bridge, but maybe that changed?  26 is mentioned again if you're on th 5 southbound and take 405 north at the southern terminus as well. 

I'm a bit confused by the routing of 26 in Portland.  The hotel I stayed at had signs for West 26 routed on SW Clay Street turning off Naito Parkway.  Google maps shows 26 routed along Market and Clay as well. 
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on October 02, 2011, 01:59:58 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 02, 2011, 01:32:14 PM
Getting back to the question about US 30 in Portland, last time I drove from Vancouver, WA through north Portland, the signs at the north end of 405, IIRC, read 405/26.  I didn't think US 26 was routed along the Freemont Bridge, but maybe that changed?  26 is mentioned again if you're on th 5 southbound and take 405 north at the southern terminus as well.  

I'm a bit confused by the routing of 26 in Portland.  The hotel I stayed at had signs for West 26 routed on SW Clay Street turning off Naito Parkway.  Google maps shows 26 routed along Market and Clay as well.  

That 26 shield along Clay St is still there, but I'm pretty sure ODOT now has 26 officially routed on 405.  This document has part of its route listed as Stadium Freeway, which is the hwy name for 405:  http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/otms/Route_Hwy_CrossRef.shtml (http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/otms/Route_Hwy_CrossRef.shtml)

The sign at the north end of 405 actually reads "405/30," as the Fremont Bridge also carries US 30.  26 first gets mentioned on the other (west ) side of the bridge, at the ramps where 30 splits off.  Here are the respective StreetViews:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.548119,-122.678805&spn=0.000941,0.002588&t=m&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=45.548119,-122.678805&panoid=gJmw4MaRw2quablFB4fzpQ&cbp=12,176.65,,0,-10.35

http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.535378,-122.686214&spn=0.001713,0.010353&t=m&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=45.535356,-122.686194&panoid=Qa9K_-9M_0UHz0NboYaayQ&cbp=12,219.81,,0,-12.68&z=17
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on October 02, 2011, 04:56:05 PM
Quote from: xonhulu on October 01, 2011, 01:27:24 AMI've always thought it should be ALT 101, as it really doesn't serve a major business district.  Either that, or just call it OR 105, using its hidden highway number.

Agreed.  Then again, I wish ODOT would follow WSDOT's lead on secondary highway numbering - 105 would still work.

QuoteBelieve it or not, (Oregon 104S) was briefly signed, and here's the photo to prove it:

I learn something new every day, thanks for the photo!
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on October 02, 2011, 07:03:58 PM
Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 02, 2011, 04:56:05 PM
Agreed.  Then again, I wish ODOT would follow WSDOT's lead on secondary highway numbering - 105 would still work.

I've seen some maps from local sources (up there) where it was labeled as OR 105, making me briefly wonder if it was actually going to be changed.  But as far as I know, no plan or suggestion has been made for this.  I suspect BUS 101 exists mostly because ODOT maintains the two drawbridges, and to provide access to Fort Clatsop.  But it really doesn't serve any significant business district, those are downtown along US 30 and in Warrenton along US 101's mainline.

QuoteI learn something new every day, thanks for the photo!

Sheer luck I went through while it was up to get the photo, as I don't think it lasted very long!
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on October 02, 2011, 08:49:27 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 02, 2011, 01:32:14 PM
Getting back to the question about US 30 in Portland, last time I drove from Vancouver, WA through north Portland, the signs at the north end of 405, IIRC, read 405/26.  I didn't think US 26 was routed along the Freemont Bridge, but maybe that changed?  26 is mentioned again if you're on th 5 southbound and take 405 north at the southern terminus as well. 

I'm a bit confused by the routing of 26 in Portland.  The hotel I stayed at had signs for West 26 routed on SW Clay Street turning off Naito Parkway.  Google maps shows 26 routed along Market and Clay as well. 
US 26 per ODOT leaves the Sunset and heads south on I-405 to SW 6th Ave and along Broadway/Sheridan, 3rd, Arthur, Naito/Kelly to the Ross Island Bridge.
Per AASHTO, US 26 is still on Market/Clay and Naito. The ODOT routing change was never submitted to the Feds.

Missing Bus US 97 from the list: Redmond.
Missing spur route from the list: OR 18 Spur, McMinnville. It's unsigned.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on October 02, 2011, 11:08:15 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on October 02, 2011, 08:49:27 PM
Missing spur route from the list: OR 18 Spur, McMinnville. It's unsigned.

Forgot about that one, as the Highway Cross-Reference document lists it as "OR 18," instead of "OR 18S."

I just noticed on that same document that many of the spurs now seem to have new hidden hwy numbers in the 480s and 490s:

- the McMinnville Spur is Hwy #483;

- the Baker-Copperfield Spur (unsigned OR 86S) is listed twice, as Hwy #12 and as Hwy #481;

- the Fort Steven Spur (the above-pictured OR 104S) is listed as Hwy #485;

- the Homedale Spur (OR 201) is Hwy #490;

- the Payette Spur (OR 52) is Hwy #492;

- the Gold Hill Spur (OR 99?) is Hwy #486;

- the Chiloquin Spur (unsigned OR 422S) has Hwy #488;

- and the Parma Spur (unsigned OR 452) is Hwy #489.


They also list:

- the Ontario Spur (US 30 and BUS US 30) as Hwy #493;

- the Weiser Spur (SPUR US 95) as Hwy #491;

- the "Redmond Spur" (BUS US 97) as Hwy #480;

- and the "Esplanade Spur" (also BUS US 97, I assume in K Falls) as Hwy #484.


This is all news to me; when were these designations changed?


Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on October 03, 2011, 04:08:04 PM
Time to email ODOT, I think, and see if I have a lot of work to do for the Clinched Highways site.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on October 03, 2011, 07:32:48 PM
Let us know what you find out.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on October 06, 2011, 01:59:22 AM
Quote from: xonhulu on October 02, 2011, 11:08:15 PMthe McMinnville Spur is Hwy #483

I wonder why they didn't use Highway 159, OR re-use the Highway 156 designation (since Highways 156 and 39Y both ended at a common location - the intersection of Johnson Street and 3rd Street.)
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on October 06, 2011, 08:40:35 PM
Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 06, 2011, 01:59:22 AM
I wonder why they didn't use Highway 159, OR re-use the Highway 156 designation (since Highways 156 and 39Y both ended at a common location - the intersection of Johnson Street and 3rd Street.)

I wondered that on all of them, why they gave them numbers in the 480's and 490's.  I don't think a single county in Oregon is currently using up all its numbers.  

But ODOT's been forgetful of their Highway Numbering Scheme lately, giving the Historic Columbia River Highway #100 (which would be a Clatsop County number using the rules of the original pattern), and combining the two highways making up OR 138 east of Roseburg, the former North Umpqua Hwy #73 and East Diamond Lake Hwy #425, into North Umpqua Hwy #138, using what should be a Tillamook County number.  So I guess we shouldn't be too surprised about these new numbers.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on October 24, 2011, 01:36:06 AM
Quote from: xonhulu on October 06, 2011, 08:40:35 PMthe two highways making up OR 138 east of Roseburg, the former North Umpqua Hwy #73 and East Diamond Lake Hwy #425, into North Umpqua Hwy #138

Or better yet, just scrap the dual numbering system!

Some of ODOT's "highways" make almost no sense - in Forest Grove, Tualatin Valley Highway 29 extends east along Route 8 and south along Route 47.  But 47 continues north as the Nehalem Highway to U.S. 26 and then multiplexes with 26 west to Manning.  Why not just make 47 from 26 south to 99W a single highway?  And 8 west of Forest Grove is the county maintained Gales Creek Road yet carries a state highway number.

Or, the Columbia River Highway 2 leaving I-84 at Irrigon and continuing on U.S. 730, while I-84 gets a "new highway" as the Oregon Trail Highway (but to maintain exit number continuity, its mileposts do not start over).
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on January 09, 2012, 09:38:15 PM
Earlier in this thread, I noted that US 30 BYPASS was not signed at its eastern end with I-84/US 30 in Wood Village.  But I noticed yesterday that some new signage has been erected on the off-ramps of the Fairview Parkway (I-84's exit 14):

From eastbound 84:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BYPFairviewPkwy1.jpg%3Ft%3D1326159331&hash=2e6b091aec72abdd1b70427709b0c14a81a0cbb6)

And from westbound:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BYPFairviewPkwy2.jpg%3Ft%3D1326159464&hash=e93f4022b8179651bf424bd48db391aed6129e41)

Mind you, these aren't on I-84 itself; they're on the off-ramps, so you have exit the freeway before you even get to them.  There is still no signage mentioning BYP 30 on the I-84 mainline.

However, this interchange is not actually the eastern end of BYP 30.  If you take this exit and go north one block to Sandy Blvd, the signage there indicates BYP 30 continues further east on Sandy:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS30BYPFairviewPkwy3.jpg%3Ft%3D1326159258&hash=ff89224c5d308d1c0aae44d9fafeb0f23d632b95)

BYP 30 should actually end at the next exit further east, at NE 238th Ave in Wood Village (exit 16).  However, there is absolutely no indication on I-84 that BYP 30 begins here, and I don't think there are any BYP 30 shields posted east of the one above; the first confirming assembly is west of here.  This is likely because this whole part of the Northeast Portland Hwy has been relinquished to local jurisdictions.

This hasn't always been the case.  IIRC, BYP 30 used to begin/end at a half-interchange between exits 14 and 16, and I know then there was signage on the freeway for BYP 30.  However, this interchange was removed when I-84 was widened to 6-lanes in the '90's.

Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on January 11, 2012, 01:33:39 AM
According to the 2010 TVT, ODOT jursidiction ends at MP 14.76, less than 1/4 mile east of 162nd Avenue.  A quick look at Google Earth shows some fairly new Multnomah County spec signs installed along the road which would collaborate that.

That would also correspond with the city boundary between Portland and Gresham.  Gresham seems to be very aggressive about taking jurisdiction of state highways within its limits, as U.S. 26 (Powell Boulevard) has also been turned over to city jurisdiction.

Portland seems to be hit and miss - it's taken over Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway, Naito Parkway and Harbor Drive, Interstate Avenue, M.L.K. Boulevard and Sandy Boulevard -- but Barbur Boulevard, U.S. 30 Bypass (Lombard/N.E. Portland Highway), Powell Boulevard, and most notably 82nd Avenue remain under state jurisdiction.  Portland wants to take over Macadam (for the Lake Oswego streetcar project) but West Linn is balking stating it doesn't have the money to maintain its 3.5 mile stretch of the road.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on January 12, 2012, 08:09:51 PM
Lake Oswego claiming not to have the money, haha.

It may be true, but it's funny nonetheless.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on January 13, 2012, 12:05:59 AM
More so West Linn than Lake Oswego...West Linn's residents may have a lot of money, but not the city.  (That's why Lake Oswego has a municipal golf course and West Linn doesn't.)
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on January 14, 2012, 02:12:24 AM
Whoops, you're right. Misread that.

And I 'agree' with West Linn, not for maintenance or money issues, but if Portland grabs Macadam, and West Linn takes Willamette Dr from ODOT... that leaves a small section of OR 43 along State St in Lake Oswego... and a probable complete decommission of the route. I don't care for that, even if it is a shorter route.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Tarkus on January 14, 2012, 04:45:17 PM
Not necessarily.  OR-210 is almost entirely under Washington County control, and has not been decommissioned (though it is not particularly well-signed in many spots).  The same is true with OR-8 through Forest Grove, from OR-47 to OR-6, which is under city and county control, OR-10 within Portland City Limits.  I think ODOT and all the local jurisdictions would really have to concede that the OR-43 designation is very beneficial from a navigation standpoint--much more so than a bunch of road names that, while somewhat iconic (Macadam certainly is), change a bunch over the short length of the route.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on January 14, 2012, 09:08:36 PM
I agree, history says the OR 43 designation wouldn't necessarily be retired.  However, I've noticed that sometimes the signage for Oregon state routes on locally-maintained roads can become pretty spotty, or in some cases basically non-existent.  As I said above, BYP 30's eastern end falls into the latter category.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on January 17, 2012, 12:14:36 AM
However U.S. 30 Business was promptly decommissioned, and I wonder if ODOT is trying to decommission 99E in North Portland (the 99E shield has been removed from at least one sign on I-5...or maybe it fell off - but it hasn't been replaced in a couple months either.)

Some of the newer signage on Naito Parkway omits Oregon 10 (but adds back in 99W which had been decommissioned back in the 1980s, and recommissioned...and then decommissioned...?)
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on January 17, 2012, 01:19:35 AM
I haven't seen any official attempt to decommission 99E, and I try not to read into things like that missing signage, but one never knows: it might mean something. 

Yes, BUS 30 disappeared in a relative hurry; Sandy Blvd was relinquished from state maintenance in (I believe) 2003, BUS 30 was removed about 4 years later.  But that was brought up to the OTC and AASHTO first, and I haven't seen 99E show up on OTC's agenda yet.

I have no idea what's going on with Naito Pkwy; it may carry anywhere from 4 routes to none, depending on what source or signs you happen to read.  I believe it's officially only OR 10, as I think US 26 now follows I-405 and the streets connecting it to the Ross Island Bridge, we think OR 99W officially ends where it first junctions with I-5 in Tigard, and I don't think OR 43 ever was meant to be on Naito despite a couple signs hinting at it.  I have a feeling no one in ODOT is exactly sure what routes should be down there, judging from the mess in the signage.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: sp_redelectric on January 24, 2012, 12:27:03 AM
Quote from: xonhulu on January 17, 2012, 01:19:35 AMI believe it's officially only OR 10...we think OR 99W officially ends where it first junctions with I-5 in Tigard

I wish someone would straighten that all out.  I don't really see any value in the Oregon 10 designation east of Beaverton anyways (even on the state-maintained segment of Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway.)

Oregon 99W starting at I-5 MP 294 makes sense.  I guess when TriMet crams MAX down Barbur Boulevard is when we'll see everything change.  And 99W in Tigard will be nothing less than a disaster.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on January 24, 2012, 01:27:58 AM
Quote from: sp_redelectric on January 24, 2012, 12:27:03 AM
I wish someone would straighten that all out.  I don't really see any value in the Oregon 10 designation east of Beaverton anyways (even on the state-maintained segment of Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway.)

Oregon 99W starting at I-5 MP 294 makes sense.  I guess when TriMet crams MAX down Barbur Boulevard is when we'll see everything change.  And 99W in Tigard will be nothing less than a disaster.

My personal opinion: OR 99W should be the route on Barbur and Naito, just for historical reasons.  It can vaguely end either at its junction with US 26 or somewhere downtown.  And OR 10 should end on OR 99W where Beaverton-Hillsdale junctions with Barbur.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on January 25, 2012, 04:50:02 PM
Officially, OR 99W terminates at I-5(294).
OR 10 terminates at US 26.
US 26 no longer runs on SW Market/Clay or on Naito, but on I-405, Broadway/5th/Sheridan, 3rd, Arthur, Kelly/ramp to the Ross Island.

Ideally, OR 99W should be signed on Denver, Interstate, Steel Bridge, [Glisan, 3rd, Everett], Naito and Barbur, with no regard as who maintains the roadway. OR 10 should terminate at Barbur. US 26 is fine where it is; a BUS US 26 on Market/Clay and Naito should be signed.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on February 04, 2012, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on January 25, 2012, 04:50:02 PM
Ideally, OR 99W should be signed on Denver, Interstate, Steel Bridge, [Glisan, 3rd, Everett], Naito and Barbur, with no regard as who maintains the roadway. OR 10 should terminate at Barbur. US 26 is fine where it is; a BUS US 26 on Market/Clay and Naito should be signed.

I agree with every single one of your suggestions.

The last time I was in downtown Portland, I noticed there's a new shield assembly on southbound Naito at Clay reading "TO US 26."  I wish I could've snapped a picture, but I couldn't find a nearby parking space; I'll have to try again sometime.  I think I saw some other new signage down there directing traffic to I-5 and US 26 somewhere on Market, but I only got a glimpse.

This old US 26 shield a couple blocks up Clay (between 2nd and 3rd, I think) is still in place, a relic of when the Clay/Market couplet still actually carried US 26:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS26DowntownPortland1.jpg%3Ft%3D1328382315&hash=adc7dae9a8f30b51d6322832b05eefdbac51a729)

This is an older photo; there's now a pole or conduit right in front of the shield partially obscuring it.

I'm not sure if this next sign is still around, but it was on southbound 13th at Market:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS26DowntownPortland2.jpg%3Ft%3D1328382468&hash=a07555b0c39a84cbfe1200f7389384390c11d48a)

Apparently, this is my 1000th post on the forum, so I can't wait to see something magical happen when I click "Post!"
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: nexus73 on February 04, 2012, 10:24:00 PM
Chris, I hope some day you have the time to post a whole series of photos showing us how US 26 gets from the Sunset Highway to downtown PDX and then crosses the Willamette.  It would be nice to know where the signage gaps, if any, are.

Congrats on the 1000th post!

Rick
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on February 04, 2012, 10:42:47 PM
I'll take care of it as soon as I can.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on February 04, 2012, 11:10:03 PM
I'm glad Bickendan volunteered, because I couldn't have come through -- I don't have photo coverage along 26's new official routing.  I suppose you could follow 26 via Street View and see the routing, but I think their photos are a bit dated.  For example, the new "TO 26" sign I mentioned above has gone up since Google went through.  I think I'm going to hike in the Gorge tomorrow, so I might swing downtown on the way up and get some more pix of 26 signage down there.

As I said, I saw some signs directing "TO 26" and "TO I-5" on some downtown streets off the old route (I can't remember the exact locations) and I think the signs are pretty new; I don't remember them being there before, at any rate.  It's nice to see the city improving navigation downtown.

And thanks for the congrats, Rick.  Post #1000 elevated me from "State Highway" to "Expressway!"  Mom and Dad will be so proud . . . .
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on February 06, 2012, 10:36:58 PM
Here's that new signage at Clay from southbound Naito:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS%2520Routes%2FUS26Portland12.jpg%3Ft%3D1328583990&hash=8fa5b1beb2e4e0e39355a520322ab4a4dac32de4)

Not much else to report.  I do find it intriguing how the signage at the north end of Macadam still refers to northbound OR 43 even though it effectively ends there:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FOR43SouthWaterfrontb.jpg%3Ft%3D1328584999&hash=713bcca92f97e5107712e892c2e3c3d62a6cb735)

All mention of OR 43 is gone by the next set of signs, visible in the background of the first photo:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS26Portland7.jpg%3Ft%3D1328585333&hash=04c3565c25c5bfc22ba282704832f640a116ba79)

And further on:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FUS26Portland8.jpg%3Ft%3D1328585472&hash=6a01f625a45c7acb5e42e80b81f1b99f09b0ce70)

So I'm not really sure why they felt the need to mention OR 43 on the first sign in this sequence, as that's the last mention of the route -- as it should be, since OR 43 ends there.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Alps on February 06, 2012, 10:50:52 PM
Quote from: xonhulu on February 06, 2012, 10:36:58 PM


(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FOR43SouthWaterfrontb.jpg%3Ft%3D1328584999&hash=713bcca92f97e5107712e892c2e3c3d62a6cb735)

You didn't say this thread was US 43 through Portland! (If you didn't see it already)
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: nexus73 on February 06, 2012, 10:59:18 PM
Good catch on that one Steve!  I was just going to post up on the "US 43" sign too.

Rick
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on February 06, 2012, 11:24:31 PM
That US 43 goof is one of two along this stretch.  I posted a photo of the other one awhile back; here it is again:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi572.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fss166%2Fxonhulu%2FSign%2520Goofs%2FIMG_0369.jpg%3Ft%3D1301204900&hash=7b8c70a7ec012da2667179998fd6652ccfa3f9c5)

They're put up to direct you how to get on southbound 43.  Here, northbound Macadam and southbound Hood function a lot like frontage roads to I-5, until Hood crosses below I-5 to merge with Macadam just before I-5 begins to climb away from the river.
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: agentsteel53 on February 07, 2012, 12:09:28 PM
I just drove through Portland on I-5 north, and I saw a sign that makes the US-43 look perfect: an Oregon state 43 that is completely flattened, to what looked like a 24x12 form factor.  I did not manage to snap a picture - it is a detour sign which is turned around on the southbound frontage road, and therefore is only visible to northbound travelers.

anyone want to get a photo of that for us? 
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on February 10, 2012, 02:02:30 PM
^It's on my list, though I don't have as many opportunities as I'd like.

To note, US 43 signs are also present on the southern end of the highway, thanks to the Oregon City Arch Bridge reconstruction detouring OR 43 onto the Abernathy Bridge (I-205) and onto McGloughlin Blvd (OR 99E).
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: xonhulu on February 10, 2012, 03:58:54 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on February 10, 2012, 02:02:30 PM
^It's on my list, though I don't have as many opportunities as I'd like.

To note, US 43 signs are also present on the southern end of the highway, thanks to the Oregon City Arch Bridge reconstruction detouring OR 43 onto the Abernathy Bridge (I-205) and onto McGloughlin Blvd (OR 99E).

I've been meaning to check out the progress on the Arch Bridge, since it was one of the places we visited on the Portland Road Meet a couple years ago.

Speaking of sites we toured on that meet: I drove the rebuilt 99E viaduct for the first time last weekend.  Very impressive.  I didn't take any pictures, though:  do you have some to share?
Title: Re: US-30 through Portland
Post by: Bickendan on February 10, 2012, 10:41:13 PM
None at the moment, though that should be relatively easy to correct... I'll add it to the queue, including shots taken from the Ross Island Bridge ;)