Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[UCFKnights]

Drivers not taking a FYA with a red ball are probably unfamiliar with the idea of a permissive left with straight red.  Quite frankly, it's odd, and goes against everything that ever existed before FYAs appeared.

A permissive phase with a straight red is odd, but having a separate turn signal for the turn lane is not.

The same thing may have been said when left turn signals initially came about. Drivers may have thought it felt weird to turn on a green arrow when the parallel through signals were red. Yet, everyone seems to have gotten used to it. Granted with a green arrow, the movement is protected, and oncoming traffic should not be entering the intersection on such a signal, but the fact remains people got used to seeing one signal with a green indication and other signals with a red indication, and knew what to do in such a situation.

Lots of signals here (Portland metro area in Oregon) implement lead/lag phasing depending on traffic, which I think is neat. If left-turning traffic on both sides is queued up, they'll both usually get green arrows, but sometimes one side will get the green arrow while the opposing side gets a flashing yellow. At one particular intersection, there's usually a super long line of cars queued up making left turns, and I'm normally on the other side waiting to turn left. While through traffic sits at a red waiting for the line of opposing left-turning vehicles, I'm able to make my permissive left since opposing through traffic is usually light.

That's why I'm a big fan of the FYA - they allow each movement to be controlled separately, and allow non-conflicting movements to be made permissively if they can be made safely. My left turn shouldn't have to be dependent on what parallel through traffic is doing; the only thing that should concern me is opposing through and right-turning traffic.

Yup, thats the exact case I was talking about, my neighborhood entrance now is like that, its low traffic, but the opposing street is high traffic. If people go as possible on the FYA and right turns on red, the light barely needs to even have any dedicated phase for us after 9am.

Another question: is any place dynamically switching between FYA and FRA indications? I noticed there is one area (school) where the light is off (blinking) for weekends that was upgraded to a FYA. On the through street, it received flashing yellow balls along with flashing red arrows. During schooldays, it is a green ball with flashing yellow arrows. The FYA indication seems like it should still make sense accompanied with opposing flashing yellow balls, no?

[roadfro]

Another question: is any place dynamically switching between FYA and FRA indications? I noticed there is one area (school) where the light is off (blinking) for weekends that was upgraded to a FYA. On the through street, it received flashing yellow balls along with flashing red arrows. During schooldays, it is a green ball with flashing yellow arrows. The FYA indication seems like it should still make sense accompanied with opposing flashing yellow balls, no?

FYA and FRA, in "stop and go" mode are not interchangeable. FRA in this application means that, according to engineering study/judgement, each car must come to a complete stop before making a permitted left turn. This was introduced at the same time as FYA in the national MUTCD, and is intended for situations on curves or other limited sight distance problems for the left turn lane.

Your scenario here though is describing FRA in "flashing" mode (e.g. low-traffic time where main street gets flashing yellow and side street gets flashing red). In flashing mode, the MUTCD allows an all-arrow display to flash either the yellow arrow or the red arrow while the adjacent through movement flashes circular yellow. (I believe using the red arrow would signify the need for a complete stop.) If it were decided to display the yellow turn arrow during flashing mode operation, the turn signal flashes the arrow normally used for the change interval (steady yellow), not the yellow arrow typically used for permitted lefts (FYA)–the meaning is the same, but the distinction reinforces that the signal is in flash mode.

[MASTERNC]

Installation number two for Pennsylvania was buried in a construction press release.  It will be in Chester County.

To improve travel through the intersection of Route 52 (Lenape Road) and Pocopson Road/West Creek Road, the contractor will work this next month to install a permanent traffic signal. The new signal will include a Flashing Yellow Arrow signal for left turns from Route 52 (Lenape Road) to Pocopson Road/West Chester Road, in addition to the standard red, yellow and green lights. This Flashing Yellow Arrow signal will be the first to operate in the Philadelphia region.

http://www.penndot.gov/RegionalOffices/district-6/pages/details.aspx?newsid=1000

[Aerobird]

So having read through all of this as much as I can without my brain oozing from my ears, and being very, very grateful that - as far as I know - this isn't a thing in Florida, I think I understand the meaning of the FYA, which leads to my question...

How does this signal phase differ from the ordinary green ball phase of a "doghouse" left turn signal head? Because from the explanations and descriptions ("yield to oncoming traffic and pedistrians, opposing traffic has a green"), it really seems like it doesn't.

[freebrickproductions]

So having read through all of this as much as I can without my brain oozing from my ears, and being very, very grateful that - as far as I know - this isn't a thing in Florida, I think I understand the meaning of the FYA, which leads to my question...

How does this signal phase differ from the ordinary green ball phase of a "doghouse" left turn signal head? Because from the explanations and descriptions ("yield to oncoming traffic and pedistrians, opposing traffic has a green"), it really seems like it doesn't.

It allows for more variations with permissive left turn signals. For example, the FYA can keep giving a permissive left while through traffic has a red light, or operate as a protected only signal during periods of peak traffic (such as rush hour). A doghouse can do neither of those, without violating the MUTCD and/or having conflicting indications with the through signals.

Also, the FYA is to create a national standard for left turn signals, because even though most places used doghouses or inline-5 signals, some states used different signals, such as Michigan with their flashing red ball left turn signals.

[SignBridge]

Aerobird, it took me repeated reading of the relevant pages in the MUTCD as well as countless hours on this board to figure out what FYA is really all about. It seems that the real reason for the FYA concept was to solve the problems caused by something called "Dallas Phasing" used in Texas. Briefly described it meant a green-ball over the left-turn lane while red-ball signals were displayed over the thru lanes. The current edition of the Manual (2009) has outlawed this practice and the FYA is the replacement solution which is clearer and not misleading.

Do a Google search for "Dallas Phasing" and you'll find some good info on the practice along with photos.

[UCFKnights]

So having read through all of this as much as I can without my brain oozing from my ears, and being very, very grateful that - as far as I know - this isn't a thing in Florida, I think I understand the meaning of the FYA, which leads to my question...

How does this signal phase differ from the ordinary green ball phase of a "doghouse" left turn signal head? Because from the explanations and descriptions ("yield to oncoming traffic and pedistrians, opposing traffic has a green"), it really seems like it doesn't.

This is a thing in Florida. I haven't seen a doghouse left turn signal installed in several years now, and FYA is in its place. Some areas in Florida are proactively replacing them as well.

Its the same meaning as doghouse, except it prevents the "yellow trap" if the thru signal turns to red to allow opposing lefts to get a protected signal. Dallas phasing was an alternate solution to this same problem this replaces, but it was a problem with the regular doghouses. Also, people sometimes forgot that oncoming traffic has right of way, especially at intersections where one direction doesn't have much traffic, so this makes people more likely to remember that, and also allows the left turn to not be permissive during select situation if necessary (perhaps for a pedestrian walk signal, during school hours, or during peak traffic)

[SignBridge]

The MUTCD still permits doghouses and similar side-by-side signals when used as a "shared signal". That means it controls both the left-turn and thru-traffic and is normally positioned over the lane-line separating the left-turn lane and the left-thru lane. It may not be placed over the left-turn lane as the Manual now prohibits a green-ball directly above such lanes. New York State and Nassau County on Long Island are still installing them as shared signals. I have not yet seen an FYA on Long Island though they may exist.

[rickmastfan67]

So having read through all of this as much as I can without my brain oozing from my ears, and being very, very grateful that - as far as I know - this isn't a thing in Florida, I think I understand the meaning of the FYA, which leads to my question...

How does this signal phase differ from the ordinary green ball phase of a "doghouse" left turn signal head? Because from the explanations and descriptions ("yield to oncoming traffic and pedistrians, opposing traffic has a green"), it really seems like it doesn't.

Is a thing in Florida for sure.  https://goo.gl/maps/b3UaQHYGkw62  This replaced a doghouse that you can still see if you go 'back-in-time' on StreetView.

[rickmastfan67]

Another flashing yellow coming to PA.

https://twitter.com/PennDOTNews/statuses/824278902386397184

[paulthemapguy]

Here's a FYA I found in North Dakota.  Idk if anything's been posted out of North Dakota yet.

https://goo.gl/maps/gqrqjR8m5q22

[jakeroot]

Here's a FYA I found in North Dakota.  Idk if anything's been posted out of North Dakota yet.

https://goo.gl/maps/gqrqjR8m5q22

Nice spot. Interesting that Hwy 23 has a four-head FYA, but West Ave has a three-head FYA. Maybe the three-head FYAs operate permissive only? Guess we'll never know

[paulthemapguy]

Here's a FYA I found in North Dakota.  Idk if anything's been posted out of North Dakota yet.

https://goo.gl/maps/gqrqjR8m5q22

Nice spot. Interesting that Hwy 23 has a four-head FYA, but West Ave has a three-head FYA. Maybe the three-head FYAs operate permissive only? Guess we'll never know

I think you're right.  The sections are red arrow, yellow arrow, flashing yellow arrow.  They might as well just be a standard 3-section head with regular ball indications, where the permissive left turn is implied anyway... lol

[roadfro]

Here's a FYA I found in North Dakota.  Idk if anything's been posted out of North Dakota yet.

https://goo.gl/maps/gqrqjR8m5q22

Nice spot. Interesting that Hwy 23 has a four-head FYA, but West Ave has a three-head FYA. Maybe the three-head FYAs operate permissive only? Guess we'll never know

I think you're right.  The sections are red arrow, yellow arrow, flashing yellow arrow.  They might as well just be a standard 3-section head with regular ball indications, where the permissive left turn is implied anyway... lol

Could the 3-section heads be using the bi-modal green/FYA setup...?

If not, it looks like they had to use the all-arrow display because the signal head is directly over the turn lane, and regular circular indications can't be over the turn lane anymore if not in a shared signal head

[jakeroot]

Could the 3-section heads be using the bi-modal green/FYA setup...?

Definitely. But why would they use two different types of FYAs? Barring some sort of clearance issue, I don't see why they'd order two different FYA styles for the same intersection.

[spooky]

Could the 3-section heads be using the bi-modal green/FYA setup...?

Definitely. But why would they use two different types of FYAs? Barring some sort of clearance issue, I don't see why they'd order two different FYA styles for the same intersection.

They would use different FYA styles if one turn is permissive only and one is protected/permissive.

[jakeroot]

Could the 3-section heads be using the bi-modal green/FYA setup...?

Definitely. But why would they use two different types of FYAs? Barring some sort of clearance issue, I don't see why they'd order two different FYA styles for the same intersection.

They would use different FYA styles if one turn is permissive only and one is protected/permissive.

Lol did you read what you quoted or...?

Roadfro surmised that the three-head FYAs might be bi-modal, which are strictly for protected/permissive movements.

[MASTERNC]

Another flashing yellow coming to PA.

https://twitter.com/PennDOTNews/statuses/824278902386397184

A bunch of police departments in other parts of PA (plus the PSP) are tweeting out that PennDOT video.  May be more coming soon.

[doogie1303]

Anyone from Bremerton, WA on this thread? Saw this two weeks ago while out there, on Kitsap Way in Bremerton, WA at the Winco food market intersection. I encountered a four head FYA signal that was showing a FYA and Red Arrow at the same time. I think this signal might be malfunctioning as the two indications seem opposite, unless there is something called a Permissive/Restrictive movement.

[SignBridge]

Has to be a malfunction or an improper design. I don't think the Manual allows such a display.

[jakeroot]

Anyone from Bremerton, WA on this thread? Saw this two weeks ago while out there, on Kitsap Way in Bremerton, WA at the Winco food market intersection. I encountered a four head FYA signal that was showing a FYA and Red Arrow at the same time. I think this signal might be malfunctioning as the two indications seem opposite, unless there is something called a Permissive/Restrictive movement.

I've made my way through Bremerton on several occasions. But the last time through there, that left turn was a 5-section doghouse. Maybe some growing pains? Definitely a malfunction.

Federal Way (across the Sound from Bremerton) had a malfunctioning FYA the other day, showing both the red and green arrows at the same time. I'll quote this post once I can get a video going.

[jakeroot]

Anyone from Bremerton, WA on this thread? Saw this two weeks ago while out there, on Kitsap Way in Bremerton, WA at the Winco food market intersection. I encountered a four head FYA signal that was showing a FYA and Red Arrow at the same time. I think this signal might be malfunctioning as the two indications seem opposite, unless there is something called a Permissive/Restrictive movement.

I've made my way through Bremerton on several occasions. But the last time through there, that left turn was a 5-section doghouse. Maybe some growing pains? Definitely a malfunction.

Federal Way (across the Sound from Bremerton) had a malfunctioning FYA the other day, showing both the red and green arrows at the same time. I'll quote this post once I can get a video going.

Here's a video. I originally posted the video on Twitter, but I ended up having to use Youtube. You need to watch in HD.

https://youtu.be/sfKuBzgVsj0

[Aerobird]

Given that it was the right turn arrow that was displaying the Red Green Show indication, I'd suspect it was running on signal logic as if it were a doghouse right-turn signal, red for straight/left (programmed assuming a red ball, not arrow) but right turns permitted?

EDIT: Specifically, the indication on the right-turn signal in the third photo in this post is what I'm thinking of.

[jakeroot]

Given that it was the right turn arrow that was displaying the Red Green Show indication, I'd suspect it was running on signal logic as if it were a doghouse right-turn signal, red for straight/left (programmed assuming a red ball, not arrow) but right turns permitted?

EDIT: Specifically, the indication on the right-turn signal in the third photo in this post is what I'm thinking of.

You can tell when I get closer to the intersection that both the left and right turn have arrow displays (they display flashing yellow arrows when the pedestrian display is activated). The right turn does run with a filter when the opposite left turn is green, but of course it normally only displays a green arrow. A hiccup in the logic may be responsible. Interesting that the green arrow just disappeared though. No yellow arrow.

[Aerobird]

Meanwhile, the first FYA I've seen in north-central Florida has appeared as part of the finishing of the US-98/US-319 intersection realignment and reconstruction in Wakulla County. The left-turn signals on 98, which were originally "classic" protective/permissive, are now FYA assemblies - which has led to crowded mast arms as three signal heads are squeezed in where two were originally intended.

(The left-turn arrows on SB 319 and the Wakulla High School exit remain five-head "classic" assemblies, as the directions alternate instead of both being green at once.)