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I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History

Started by I-39, January 16, 2015, 10:07:49 PM

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I-39

I've been doing some research into the history of the I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) corridor, particularly because I want to know why the corridor wasn't built to interstate standards south of Bloomington-Normal. I travel the corridor frequently and while I enjoy the high speed Interstate 39 corridor north of Normal, I can't stand the expressway between B-Normal and Decatur. It is very poorly built, too much cross traffic, the signals in Clinton are annoying, the speed limits fluctuate too much between rural areas and towns and some of the towns are not even properly bypassed (anyone agree here?). The expressway south of Decatur is much better, but still not as nice as the full freeway between Rockford and B-Normal.

From what I can gather:

1. The original FAP 412 proposal had a U.S 51 freeway running from Rockford down to I-57 near Salem.

2. In the 1970's, due to funding and safety priorities, only the section of U.S 51 between Rockford and Decatur was prioritized

3. From some old Pantagraph articles I found, it seems there was a debate over whether or not to build the corridor between Oglesby and Normal to interstate-standards or four-lane expressway, does anyone have some insight on this?

4. I have heard conflicting reports on why U.S 51 between Bloomington and Decatur was built to an expressway as opposed to interstate-standards. One side says it was simply because of local opposition, the other side says the area simply didn't want to wait for funding to build the Interstate, plus there was no additional gain in commerce of safety standards (really? I beg to differ there) so they decided to revert to the expressway option. Again, any insight here?


3467

The original route was Rockford to East Peoria and down what is now I-155 to Decatur . The later supplemental  freeway system did have the route you mention. The SFS was pretty much scrapped by 1979 and replaced by Principal Arterials .
The 80 to 55 EIS did consider and expressway but they had the cash so it was built a freeway. Sine Decatur was already there -well ........ I was researching the switch from 51 to 39 and wondered if it happened before or after the section to Bloomington was approved. I found it was probably before AASTO must have found 90 to 80 good enough for a 2di

A 1987 Planning study looked at Decatur south and suggested a 4 lane for this low volume streach with the section to Pana first .and through town in Centralia and Vandalia. Recently and EIS for Pana to 64 was completed? It had bypasses to meat the EIS justification . Vandali does not want another bypass . Considering the expense an opposition I cant see it happening for a long time if ever . A no build option included and reconstructed 2 lane with a large number of passing lanes

I-39

Quote from: 3467 on January 16, 2015, 10:38:08 PM
The original route was Rockford to East Peoria and down what is now I-155 to Decatur . The later supplemental  freeway system did have the route you mention. The SFS was pretty much scrapped by 1979 and replaced by Principal Arterials .
The 80 to 55 EIS did consider and expressway but they had the cash so it was built a freeway. Sine Decatur was already there -well ........ I was researching the switch from 51 to 39 and wondered if it happened before or after the section to Bloomington was approved. I found it was probably before AASTO must have found 90 to 80 good enough for a 2di

That's just it. If they had the cash to build to Interstate-standards from I-80 to I-55 in B-Normal, why not between Bloomington and Decatur? I believe the expressway between B-Normal and Decatur was constructed in the mid to late 1980's. Again, that stretch is terrible and ought to have been built to interstate standards.

As for the numbering, I believe it was signed as I-39 when the route was extended to I-80 around 1986.

3467

Bloomington/Decatur was started first in 79 I think, Thompson was sort road money in 79 but there was more from his Build Illinois by 1986 . US 51,Monmouth by pass 20 and other early expressways led to new deign policies at IDOT to build interchanges when 20 traffic projects showed need for signalization. Policy is now no signals on bypasses or rural areas if at all avoidable . How many signals are there?

Lyon Wonder

The most annoying thing about US 51 between Decatur and Bloomington are the at-grade intersections with IL-10 and IL-54 and railroad crossing in Clinton and the intersections immediately north of I-72 at Forsyth.  Making grade-separated bypasses of Forsyth and Clinton would make the US 51 expressway so much better.
The Forsyth bypass could also make use of the ghost ramps on I-72 too.

I-39

#5
There are at 3 stoplights on the Clinton "bypass", one at Illinois 10 and 54 respectively, and another at Business 51 on the south side of town. And in Forsyth, there are SIX stoplights before you can get to I-72. :banghead: I do remember reading something about IDOT saying they will grade-separate any intersections that would warrant traffic signals, so they broke that promise..................  :rolleyes:


Quote from: Lyon Wonder on January 17, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
The most annoying thing about US 51 between Decatur and Bloomington are the at-grade intersections with IL-10 and IL-54 and railroad crossing in Clinton and the intersections immediately north of I-72 at Forsyth.  Making grade-separated bypasses of Forsyth and Clinton would make the US 51 expressway so much better.
The Forsyth bypass could also make use of the ghost ramps on I-72 too.

I agree, but I'd go further, they ought to rebuild the entire corridor to interstate-standards on a new alignment west of the current one, and then downgrade the current corridor back to a two lane road when finished. There are two many deficiencies in the current expressway to improve the existing corridor (the stuff you mentioned plus don't forget the lack of a bypass around Wapella). Of course, this will never happen, but it is what needs to be done.


Rick Powell

I worked at IDOT District 3 when US 51 was being designed and built...we actually designed the 4 lane expressway section immediately south of I-74 to Shirley Road in house and I was part of the design squad.  The US 136 grade separation at Heyworth was a District decision, they wanted to avoid all stoplights thru McLean County if possible (although one popped up later, just south of I-74 due to development).  I recall talking to someone in District 5 about their decision to do at grade intersections in Clinton rather than grade separations like US 136, and they were really kicking themselves for that one.  I believe Homer Chastain Co. of Decatur did the alignment study.

Rick Powell

The decision to build to freeway standards between B-N and Oglesby was partly fueled by the landing of the Mitsubishi/Chrysler Diamond-Star plant in Bloomington, and Chrysler's desire for connectivity between the new plant and their Belvidere IL facility.  Gov. Big Jim Thompson was the ultimate decider of doing the road to freeway standards...it was previously set to be an expressway section, and most folks at IDOT were surprised it went the other way.  There was a field office set up in Wenona IL while they were acquiring land for the freeway, and was open 3 days a week so that people could come in and talk to the IDOT representatives.

I remember doing several projects on the old US 51, it was a dangerous section with many head on crashes.  Maybe 8,000 ADT average.  There are still about 1,000 or so on vehicles a day on the old section, now IL 251, but I-39 has far surpassed the traffic that was on the old road due to its functioning as a Chicago bypass along with I-74.

I-39

Quote from: Rick Powell on January 17, 2015, 11:55:16 AM
I worked at IDOT District 3 when US 51 was being designed and built...we actually designed the 4 lane expressway section immediately south of I-74 to Shirley Road in house and I was part of the design squad.  The US 136 grade separation at Heyworth was a District decision, they wanted to avoid all stoplights thru McLean County if possible (although one popped up later, just south of I-74 due to development).  I recall talking to someone in District 5 about their decision to do at grade intersections in Clinton rather than grade separations like US 136, and they were really kicking themselves for that one.  I believe Homer Chastain Co. of Decatur did the alignment study.

Interesting. Well, at least you guys did the right thing. :clap:

But why wasn't interstate-grade construction considered more seriously between Bloomington and Decatur? Traffic, cost, etc? It probably would've had more traffic on it than I-155 between Morton and Lincoln.........

ET21

In your research, did you find out about the ghost ramp elevations at the I-39/US-51/US-20 interchange in Rockford? I always see what looks like a cloverleaf ramp elevation from east US-20 to the west US-20 ramp from northbound I-39/US-51  :hmmm:
The local weatherman, trust me I can be 99.9% right!
"Show where you're going, without forgetting where you're from"

Clinched:
IL: I-88, I-180, I-190, I-290, I-294, I-355, IL-390
IN: I-80, I-94
SD: I-190
WI: I-90, I-94
MI: I-94, I-196
MN: I-90

Stratuscaster

If I recall, the freeway was to extend north from US-20 into the city of Rockford. That section was canceled, but not before the ramps were graded.

I-39

Quote from: ET21 on January 17, 2015, 02:35:42 PM
In your research, did you find out about the ghost ramp elevations at the I-39/US-51/US-20 interchange in Rockford? I always see what looks like a cloverleaf ramp elevation from east US-20 to the west US-20 ramp from northbound I-39/US-51  :hmmm:

The ghost ramps at the I-39/U.S 20 interchange in Rockford was preparation for the never built Woodruff Expressway, which was a crosstown highway proposed to lead commercial traffic back into downtown Rockford, since all of the traffic was heading east along the I-90/Northwest (Jane Addams) Tollway. It was to be built on the old RR ROW from the Galena and Chicago Union Railroad. It was ultimately cancelled due to high opposition (not really needed if you ask me).

There was a proposal to reconstruct the I-39/U.S 20 interchange as well as the U.S 20 Harrison Avenue interchange, but that has mysteriously been taken off the IDOT website within the last year. Does anyone know what happened there?

I am primarily interested as to why the U.S 51 corridor was not built as a Interstate-grade highway south of Bloomington-Normal. I'd argue that this was probably one of the biggest mistakes IDOT made in the last half-century (right up there with not building the full Route 53 extension)

Stratuscaster

Without digging into it, I would surmise for the same reason many projects don't get done - money (to be clear, the lack of it.)

I-39

Quote from: Stratuscaster on January 17, 2015, 11:41:15 PM
Without digging into it, I would surmise for the same reason many projects don't get done - money (to be clear, the lack of it.)

I'd agree, but back in the late 70's/early 80's when FAP 412 was being planned in earnest, they had the money to build the highway to Interstate standards from Rockford to Bloomington-Normal; it was a federally designated high priority route (back in the good old days when Congress actually passed multi-year highway bills).

So I'm not quite sure why they wouldn't have had the money to build U.S 51 to Interstate standards between B-Normal and Decatur, especially when they somehow found the money to build the U.S 36 (what became I-72 west of Springfield) and Illinois 121 (I-155) corridors to full Interstate standards (both were being constructed around the same time as I-39).

3467

Back to Rick Powell. In 1979 everybody realized the supplemental freeways were not going to happen but many of those corridors need upgrades . In 1979 IDOT as Rick Powell said was just working out its design standards for expressways . The no traffic lights really didn't show up until 67 planning began anew in the early 90s. Traffic lights were common on expressways Even now they are acceptable on through town route like Macomb and Good Hope on 67.
BTW thanks for the Thompson story -really interesting. I39 would have ended at 80. Ironically the 2 plants no longer need connecting but no one ever saw the outer Chicago bypass coming. Also and I can be correct by Rick or anyone else,but 39 was the exception ...most routes really have been below IDOTS traffic estimates I know 34 was supposed to be over 10-12,000 but its 8-9000.   

Rick Powell

#15
The one ex-IDOT District 3 guy who would have all the programming knowledge unfortunately passed away several years ago...I guess I could ask another retired IDOT guy in Springfield who used to work in programming.  What I do know is that I-39 between B-N and Oglesby was built fairly cheaply at about $450 million for everything, but it did take up a good bit of IDOT's downstate budget.  IDOT was in a rather austere mode when US 51 from B-N to Decatur was being built it opened up sometime around the time that IDOT was completing the expensive IL River crossing of I-39 in the late 80's.  And I-I55 was being built around the same time.  I-155 had a unique situation where over half of the private property needed for the road was controlled by one family (according to IDOT's former chief of design), and a lawsuit regarding part of the property delayed its completion, but it was also being worked on and finished at about the same time as the last section of I-39 in the late 80's-early 90's.  The downstate budget of 55% total (vs. District 1's budget of 45% total) may have been a limiting factor with the already dedicated downstate freeways needing everything they could scrape together to get finished, and perhaps leaving the US 51 section with an austere budget.  Further complicating matters is that FAP 412 (pre-Interstate designation from B-N to Oglesby) received relatively little federal funding during its construction and relied heavily on state capital bonds (if I recall correctly).

Lyon Wonder

Quote from: adamlanfort on January 17, 2015, 10:11:09 AM
There are at 3 stoplights on the Clinton "bypass", one at Illinois 10 and 54 respectively, and another at Business 51 on the south side of town. And in Forsyth, there are SIX stoplights before you can get to I-72. :banghead: I do remember reading something about IDOT saying they will grade-separate any intersections that would warrant traffic signals, so they broke that promise..................  :rolleyes:


Quote from: Lyon Wonder on January 17, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
The most annoying thing about US 51 between Decatur and Bloomington are the at-grade intersections with IL-10 and IL-54 and railroad crossing in Clinton and the intersections immediately north of I-72 at Forsyth.  Making grade-separated bypasses of Forsyth and Clinton would make the US 51 expressway so much better.
The Forsyth bypass could also make use of the ghost ramps on I-72 too.

I agree, but I'd go further, they ought to rebuild the entire corridor to interstate-standards on a new alignment west of the current one, and then downgrade the current corridor back to a two lane road when finished. There are two many deficiencies in the current expressway to improve the existing corridor (the stuff you mentioned plus don't forget the lack of a bypass around Wapella). Of course, this will never happen, but it is what needs to be done.



In other words, turning the US 51 expressway into I-39 between Decatur and Bloomington would be a repetition of building I-55 along US 66 in the 1970s, with US 51's Clinton bypass being bypassed with an interstate bypass further to the west and, north and south of the Clinton bypass, constructing I-39's northbound lanes over US 51's southbound lane, while turning US 51's northbound lane into a frontage road.  IMO, the alignment at Heyworth would require the least effort to convert to limited access since it looks like both lanes could be easily upgraded into I-39, while the alignment from Wapella south to I-72 would require the most work since I assume new ROW would have to be built.

I-39

Quote from: Lyon Wonder on January 25, 2015, 01:55:28 AM
Quote from: adamlanfort on January 17, 2015, 10:11:09 AM
There are at 3 stoplights on the Clinton "bypass", one at Illinois 10 and 54 respectively, and another at Business 51 on the south side of town. And in Forsyth, there are SIX stoplights before you can get to I-72. :banghead: I do remember reading something about IDOT saying they will grade-separate any intersections that would warrant traffic signals, so they broke that promise..................  :rolleyes:


Quote from: Lyon Wonder on January 17, 2015, 12:38:30 AM
The most annoying thing about US 51 between Decatur and Bloomington are the at-grade intersections with IL-10 and IL-54 and railroad crossing in Clinton and the intersections immediately north of I-72 at Forsyth.  Making grade-separated bypasses of Forsyth and Clinton would make the US 51 expressway so much better.
The Forsyth bypass could also make use of the ghost ramps on I-72 too.

I agree, but I'd go further, they ought to rebuild the entire corridor to interstate-standards on a new alignment west of the current one, and then downgrade the current corridor back to a two lane road when finished. There are two many deficiencies in the current expressway to improve the existing corridor (the stuff you mentioned plus don't forget the lack of a bypass around Wapella). Of course, this will never happen, but it is what needs to be done.



In other words, turning the US 51 expressway into I-39 between Decatur and Bloomington would be a repetition of building I-55 along US 66 in the 1970s, with US 51's Clinton bypass being bypassed with an interstate bypass further to the west and, north and south of the Clinton bypass, constructing I-39's northbound lanes over US 51's southbound lane, while turning US 51's northbound lane into a frontage road.  IMO, the alignment at Heyworth would require the least effort to convert to limited access since it looks like both lanes could be easily upgraded into I-39, while the alignment from Wapella south to I-72 would require the most work since I assume new ROW would have to be built.

No, I would build the freeway on a completely new alignment to the west of the current one, the only overlap of the existing corridor I'd do is at the U.S 136 interchange in Heyworth. For example, the freeway would start at a system interchange utilizing the existing stub ramps on I-72 on the northwest side of Decatur and travel straight north, with interchanges at County Route 20 (Forsyth), County Route 58 (Maroa), IL-54 and IL-10 (Clinton, although given there close proximity, probably could save some money and interchange only one of them, most likely IL-10), County Route 9 at Wapella, existing interchange at U.S 136 in Heyworth, Business 51 south of Bloomington and a system interchange at I-74 between the existing U.S 51 interchange and the I-55 interchange (it probably would require rebuilding and widening I-74 as well as the reconfiguration of both the existing U.S 51 interchange as well as part of the I-55 interchange).

North of Wapella, the freeway would overlap the existing U.S 51 and do so until north of Heyworth, where it would curve back towards west of the current alignment to merge into I-74 at a proper system interchange.

Of course, this will never happen, way too expensive. However, I am surprised that no one has at least considered building a proper bypass around Forsyth.

Also, if a freeway will never happen between Bloomington-Normal and Decatur, why are the ramps northwest of the city still there? Are they keeping them just in case?

Rick Powell

Quote from: adamlanfort on January 25, 2015, 09:35:25 AM

Also, if a freeway will never happen between Bloomington-Normal and Decatur, why are the ramps northwest of the city still there? Are they keeping them just in case?

Ghost ramps, built with the intent of future construction when/if the project continues, can often be left in place for decades.  It costs money to remove them, and if there's a 1% chance something might be built in the future, and the nominal cost of leaving the ramps in place is negligible, it's a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" to the DOT's. 

3467

I agree with that ,the problems with 155 ,show the need to bank ROW when you can IDOT used to do that a lot . Now they seen cowed for fear they have created an obligation to build something
IDOT did a study for a freeway upgrade to the Monmouth bypass. I wish they had banked the land because that is there area where the only development is occurring. It will probably never need to be upgraded but for very little cost the option would be there. I know there are laws about eminent domain buying but my guess is IDOT could acquire almost all the ROW it will need in its downstate corridors without need for quick take I would think it would save on utility cost as well.
I have heard IDOT is trying to restrict direct access to all its routes which is a good idea

I-39

From an old Pantagraph article in March of 1978 titled: U.S. 51 statement called "political". I'll give you a couple of quotes because you can only view it with premium access.

In an announcement called a "political statement" by a state representative, Gov. James Thompson said Tuesday the portion of the proposed North-South Freeway from Bloomington to Decatur should not be built to interstate highway standards.

Thompson said in his announcement that building the road to less-than-interstate standards would reduce the cost of the 37-mile stretch from $120 million to $70 million and reduce by 1,400 acres the amount of land needed for the road.

Thompson said at a news conference in Decatur that the road should be constructed as a four-lane highway, including traffic lights and crossings for rural roads. That plan is a design similar to former U.S. 66, phased out for Interstate 55.

Seriously? Saving $40 million when the state spent over $100 million to build IL-121 to interstate standards between Morton and Lincoln? Why couldn't that corridor be built as an expressway? And why do you think U.S. 66 was replaced by I-55? Because a fully access-controlled facility is safer than an expressway, and it provides more economic opportunities. 

The article states that this decision was made after consulting with "interested groups" in Decatur. Considering how poorly built the expressway between Bloomington and Decatur is, which probably deprives the communities in that corridor of some of the economic opportunities given to the towns north of B-Normal, I wonder if some of the parties involved regret the decision now...............

jnewkirk77

Quote from: adamlanfort on January 25, 2015, 05:47:51 PM
From an old Pantagraph article in March of 1978 titled: U.S. 51 statement called "political". I'll give you a couple of quotes because you can only view it with premium access.

In an announcement called a "political statement" by a state representative, Gov. James Thompson said Tuesday the portion of the proposed North-South Freeway from Bloomington to Decatur should not be built to interstate highway standards.

Thompson said in his announcement that building the road to less-than-interstate standards would reduce the cost of the 37-mile stretch from $120 million to $70 million and reduce by 1,400 acres the amount of land needed for the road.

Thompson said at a news conference in Decatur that the road should be constructed as a four-lane highway, including traffic lights and crossings for rural roads. That plan is a design similar to former U.S. 66, phased out for Interstate 55.

Seriously? Saving $40 million when the state spent over $100 million to build IL-121 to interstate standards between Morton and Lincoln? Why couldn't that corridor be built as an expressway? And why do you think U.S. 66 was replaced by I-55? Because a fully access-controlled facility is safer than an expressway, and it provides more economic opportunities. 

The article states that this decision was made after consulting with "interested groups" in Decatur. Considering how poorly built the expressway between Bloomington and Decatur is, which probably deprives the communities in that corridor of some of the economic opportunities given to the towns north of B-Normal, I wonder if some of the parties involved regret the decision now...............

$40 million was a good deal more of a savings in 1978 than it is today.  I think the late Sen. Everett Dirksen was credited with the saying, "Pretty soon you're talking about real money," and that may well be what Big Jim was trying to save.  Not saying it was the right move in the end, but quite frankly perhaps it was right, right then.

I-39

Quote from: jnewkirk77 on January 26, 2015, 06:25:56 AM
Quote from: adamlanfort on January 25, 2015, 05:47:51 PM
From an old Pantagraph article in March of 1978 titled: U.S. 51 statement called "political". I'll give you a couple of quotes because you can only view it with premium access.

In an announcement called a "political statement" by a state representative, Gov. James Thompson said Tuesday the portion of the proposed North-South Freeway from Bloomington to Decatur should not be built to interstate highway standards.

Thompson said in his announcement that building the road to less-than-interstate standards would reduce the cost of the 37-mile stretch from $120 million to $70 million and reduce by 1,400 acres the amount of land needed for the road.

Thompson said at a news conference in Decatur that the road should be constructed as a four-lane highway, including traffic lights and crossings for rural roads. That plan is a design similar to former U.S. 66, phased out for Interstate 55.

Seriously? Saving $40 million when the state spent over $100 million to build IL-121 to interstate standards between Morton and Lincoln? Why couldn't that corridor be built as an expressway? And why do you think U.S. 66 was replaced by I-55? Because a fully access-controlled facility is safer than an expressway, and it provides more economic opportunities. 

The article states that this decision was made after consulting with "interested groups" in Decatur. Considering how poorly built the expressway between Bloomington and Decatur is, which probably deprives the communities in that corridor of some of the economic opportunities given to the towns north of B-Normal, I wonder if some of the parties involved regret the decision now...............

$40 million was a good deal more of a savings in 1978 than it is today.  I think the late Sen. Everett Dirksen was credited with the saying, "Pretty soon you're talking about real money," and that may well be what Big Jim was trying to save.  Not saying it was the right move in the end, but quite frankly perhaps it was right, right then.

Well, here is the thing. I found another article from around 1976, and most people (citizens, city officials, interest groups) from Decatur actually supported the interstate-grade construction. There were two informational meetings for the North-South Freeway, one in Normal and one in Decatur, and more support for the Interstate-grade construction was found for the segment between Bloomington and Decatur than there was between the Oglesby to Normal segment (most people were opposed to that). Additionally, they simultaneously held meetings regarding the IL-121 project, and most people were opposed to interstate-grade construction along that corridor.

Not really understanding the logic...........

3467

Adam its Illinois often there is no logic I don't know how guys like Rick Powell could take it but that is what we have . That said I have been finding the worst traffic problems keep happening on the stretch of 39 between the Reagan and Adams. I saw truck is up to 11,000 which is the same as 80 in eastern Iowa .
Also there are Travel times for it . It seems tied for the tollway Anyone know about it . Right now northbound travel time is 94 mins as opposed to the usual 22 mins
http://www.travelmidwest.com/lmiga/map.jsp?mapname=chicagoArea

I-39

^^
Very true...............

Not building Interstate 39 south of Bloomington and not building an Interstate-grade highway along U.S 67 in Western Illinois are probably the two biggest mistakes IDOT made in the last 40-50 years outside of Chicago (don't even get me started with all the mistakes they made there......)



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