Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

Started by NJRoadfan, June 17, 2010, 10:58:35 AM

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paulthemapguy

Oh man.  I had no idea how widespread FYA's were in Peoria, IL!  There are far too many examples to count or list here!  All along US150, I-74, IL-40...

Peoria, IL is like the mecca for flashing yellow arrows.  I hope they're covered in their driver's ed training XD they weren't included in mine...
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jakeroot

Federal Way, Washington has begun to install flashing yellow arrows at all T-junctions. I made a video to demonstrate their phasing:

https://youtu.be/Yk4m574Bi-o

At least two intersections in the city have this setup.

David Jr.

In an earlier post on this thread, I mentioned the flashing yellow arrow in Mount Vernon, MO at BL I-44 and MO 39 and that the approach from the Walmart there had no green arrow.  There is now a green arrow on that signal.

74/171FAN

It looks like PA will start having them (first one being put on Rossmoyne Rd at the US 15 interchange south of Camp Hill)
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

MASTERNC

Quote from: 74/171FAN on April 28, 2016, 09:25:23 PM
It looks like PA will start having them (first one being put on Rossmoyne Rd at the US 15 interchange south of Camp Hill)

Just made the morning TV news in Philly.  Plenty of doghouses here that could be replaced. 

It's also on the PennDOT homepage now.  Their fact sheet mentions "widespread replacement" after this first one has had some time.

http://www.penndot.gov/TravelInPA/TrafficSignalsManagement/Pages/default.aspx#.VySo7WbUT3U

Wonder if they will ultimately allow the yellow arrow to flash on protected left turn signals when the intersection is in flash mode.  Right now, the signals are dark (allowing the flashing yellow ball to control turns).

UCFKnights

Quote from: MASTERNC on April 30, 2016, 08:45:41 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on April 28, 2016, 09:25:23 PM
It looks like PA will start having them (first one being put on Rossmoyne Rd at the US 15 interchange south of Camp Hill)

Just made the morning TV news in Philly.  Plenty of doghouses here that could be replaced. 

It's also on the PennDOT homepage now.  Their fact sheet mentions "widespread replacement" after this first one has had some time.

http://www.penndot.gov/TravelInPA/TrafficSignalsManagement/Pages/default.aspx#.VySo7WbUT3U

Wonder if they will ultimately allow the yellow arrow to flash on protected left turn signals when the intersection is in flash mode.  Right now, the signals are dark (allowing the flashing yellow ball to control turns).
Around here if they go into flash they flash the red arrow, even while the mainline has a flashing yellow ball. I thought that was a bit weird.

Bitmapped

I'll be curious to see if PennDOT replaces any of their protected-only installations with the FYLA or if it will just be doghouse signals that get changed over. PennDOT uses protected-only signals way more than any other state I've seen.

cl94

Quote from: Bitmapped on April 30, 2016, 10:29:06 PM
I'll be curious to see if PennDOT replaces any of their protected-only installations with the FYLA or if it will just be doghouse signals that get changed over. PennDOT uses protected-only signals way more than any other state I've seen.

They're in competition with New York for that one. Protected-only signals are much too common in state installs here.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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vdeane

I remember back in the 90s when it seemed like there was only one protected-only signal in the entirety of Region 4.  The upgrades to NY 332 and NY 252 sure changed that (ironically, the one protected-only signal I knew of is now gone; NY 590 at Titus).  Region 1 has them EVERYWHERE.

I LOATH protected-only signals.  I much prefer doghouses over FYAs because FYAs have the capability of having a red arrow when the straight in green.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

paulthemapguy

Quote from: vdeane on May 01, 2016, 03:40:44 PM
I remember back in the 90s when it seemed like there was only one protected-only signal in the entirety of Region 4.  The upgrades to NY 332 and NY 252 sure changed that (ironically, the one protected-only signal I knew of is now gone; NY 590 at Titus).  Region 1 has them EVERYWHERE.

I LOATH protected-only signals.  I much prefer doghouses over FYAs because FYAs have the capability of having a red arrow when the straight in green.

California also drives me nuts with the excessive prevalence of protected-only signals.  They could benefit from converting many of their signals to FYA's.  I remember getting particularly frustrated in the Bay Area.

And I prefer 5-section heads but that's because I'm from doghouse-free Illinois  :biggrin:
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jakeroot

Quote from: vdeane on May 01, 2016, 03:40:44 PM
I LOATH protected-only signals.  I much prefer doghouses over FYAs because FYAs have the capability of having a red arrow when the straight in green.

What exactly are you getting at? The FYA's "per lane" approach allows for much greater flexibility: TOD phasing, skipped phases when not needed, lead/lag phasing (if your state doesn't allow such operation with doghouses, such as Washington), etc. Doghouses are sort of half-baked in comparison.

steviep24

Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 01, 2016, 04:10:31 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 01, 2016, 03:40:44 PM
I remember back in the 90s when it seemed like there was only one protected-only signal in the entirety of Region 4.  The upgrades to NY 332 and NY 252 sure changed that (ironically, the one protected-only signal I knew of is now gone; NY 590 at Titus).  Region 1 has them EVERYWHERE.

I LOATH protected-only signals.  I much prefer doghouses over FYAs because FYAs have the capability of having a red arrow when the straight in green.

California also drives me nuts with the excessive prevalence of protected-only signals.  They could benefit from converting many of their signals to FYA's.  I remember getting particularly frustrated in the Bay Area.

And I prefer 5-section heads but that's because I'm from doghouse-free Illinois  :biggrin:
NY 104 is full of them too especially the W. Ridge Rd. section in Greece when that got upgraded. Mt. Read Blvd has had protected only left turns for decades.

Revive 755

Quote from: jakeroot on May 01, 2016, 06:32:22 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 01, 2016, 03:40:44 PM
I LOATH protected-only signals.  I much prefer doghouses over FYAs because FYAs have the capability of having a red arrow when the straight in green.

What exactly are you getting at? The FYA's "per lane" approach allows for much greater flexibility: TOD phasing, skipped phases when not needed, lead/lag phasing (if your state doesn't allow such operation with doghouses, such as Washington), etc. Doghouses are sort of half-baked in comparison.

I second this; you can at least have the FYA up some of the time at a signal that would otherwise have to run protected-only 24/7.  Plus with a FYA head you can have permissive lefts while the adjacent through movement is red - something that cannot be done with a doghouse or tower.

Brandon

Quote from: paulthemapguy on April 08, 2016, 12:16:05 PM
Oh man.  I had no idea how widespread FYA's were in Peoria, IL!  There are far too many examples to count or list here!  All along US150, I-74, IL-40...

Peoria, IL is like the mecca for flashing yellow arrows.  I hope they're covered in their driver's ed training XD they weren't included in mine...

They're like a rash all over IDOT District 4 (Peoria).  Even areas within the district, but away from Peoria have them.
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vdeane

Quote from: Revive 755 on May 01, 2016, 08:23:41 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 01, 2016, 06:32:22 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 01, 2016, 03:40:44 PM
I LOATH protected-only signals.  I much prefer doghouses over FYAs because FYAs have the capability of having a red arrow when the straight in green.

What exactly are you getting at? The FYA's "per lane" approach allows for much greater flexibility: TOD phasing, skipped phases when not needed, lead/lag phasing (if your state doesn't allow such operation with doghouses, such as Washington), etc. Doghouses are sort of half-baked in comparison.

I second this; you can at least have the FYA up some of the time at a signal that would otherwise have to run protected-only 24/7.  Plus with a FYA head you can have permissive lefts while the adjacent through movement is red - something that cannot be done with a doghouse or tower.
Honestly, I'd rather not see protected-only anywhere.  If you're stuck at one and there's a gap in oncoming traffic, I'm sure you know the frustration with having to wait five minutes for the green arrow to go on when you could have went right then.

The idea of having a permissive left when the straight is red is foreign to me.  In this state, a VERY LARGE percent signals are fully actuated "leading (once in a blue moon lagging) left turn (sometimes both directions) if applicable, straight, repeat for cross street".

Quote from: steviep24 on May 01, 2016, 07:49:58 PM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 01, 2016, 04:10:31 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 01, 2016, 03:40:44 PM
I remember back in the 90s when it seemed like there was only one protected-only signal in the entirety of Region 4.  The upgrades to NY 332 and NY 252 sure changed that (ironically, the one protected-only signal I knew of is now gone; NY 590 at Titus).  Region 1 has them EVERYWHERE.

I LOATH protected-only signals.  I much prefer doghouses over FYAs because FYAs have the capability of having a red arrow when the straight in green.

California also drives me nuts with the excessive prevalence of protected-only signals.  They could benefit from converting many of their signals to FYA's.  I remember getting particularly frustrated in the Bay Area.

And I prefer 5-section heads but that's because I'm from doghouse-free Illinois  :biggrin:
NY 104 is full of them too especially the W. Ridge Rd. section in Greece when that got upgraded. Mt. Read Blvd has had protected only left turns for decades.
In all honesty, growing up on the east side of the Genesee, I don't use NY 104 often enough to remember that it has them now and, aside from one clinching trip, have never had cause to use Mt Read Blvd EVER.  I remember frustration at having to sit at the Titus signal whenever I went to the orthodontist and nearly ran a red right after I moved to Albany because I wasn't used to looking for left turn signals on roads without medians.

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

cl94

Protected-only is very useful for double left turns for many reasons. Similarly, if visibility is limited or the turn is across more than two lanes of traffic, protected-only should be considered for safety reasons. Very few intersections anywhere have a doghouse for turns across 3+ lanes. An FYA is the best of both worlds, as a protected-only signal is often installed if opposing traffic for a portion of the day is heavy enough to prevent left turns.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

MASTERNC

Quote from: cl94 on May 02, 2016, 05:37:23 PM
Protected-only is very useful for double left turns for many reasons. Similarly, if visibility is limited or the turn is across more than two lanes of traffic, protected-only should be considered for safety reasons. Very few intersections anywhere have a doghouse for turns across 3+ lanes. An FYA is the best of both worlds, as a protected-only signal is often installed if opposing traffic for a portion of the day is heavy enough to prevent left turns.

Ask Delaware about that one.  There are several intersections on US 202 with doghouse signals that require crossing 3 lanes of cross traffic.

jakeroot

Quote from: cl94 on May 02, 2016, 05:37:23 PM
Protected-only is very useful for double left turns for many reasons. Similarly, if visibility is limited or the turn is across more than two lanes of traffic, protected-only should be considered for safety reasons. Very few intersections anywhere have a doghouse for turns across 3+ lanes. An FYA is the best of both worlds, as a protected-only signal is often installed if opposing traffic for a portion of the day is heavy enough to prevent left turns.

3+ opposing lanes has been way overused as a criteria against permissive phasing. There are several cities near me with wide FYA deployment, with many examples against three lanes (I think one is even against four) -- one of the cities uses FYAs at all single lane left turns (Federal Way, WA). That city uses TOD phasing to prevent "close calls" during heavy traffic (such that cars are more likely to take chances during heavier hours).

Revive 755

Quote from: vdeane on May 02, 2016, 05:24:45 PM
The idea of having a permissive left when the straight is red is foreign to me.  In this state, a VERY LARGE percent signals are fully actuated "leading (once in a blue moon lagging) left turn (sometimes both directions) if applicable, straight, repeat for cross street".

The permissive left with a red for an adjacent straight is/would be very useful for those regions that use leading lefts and only have detection near the stop bar of the left turn lane.  It is irritating to frequently just miss bringing up the green arrow by a couple of seconds and have to wait for the adjacent green ball to come up - or even worse, to wait another long cycle for the green arrow.  It would be very useful at intersections where the left turn volumes are greater than the adjoining through movements - usually for a minor side street at a major street.

cl94

Quote from: Revive 755 on May 02, 2016, 10:26:12 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 02, 2016, 05:24:45 PM
The idea of having a permissive left when the straight is red is foreign to me.  In this state, a VERY LARGE percent signals are fully actuated "leading (once in a blue moon lagging) left turn (sometimes both directions) if applicable, straight, repeat for cross street".

The permissive left with a red for an adjacent straight is/would be very useful for those regions that use leading lefts and only have detection near the stop bar of the left turn lane.  It is irritating to frequently just miss bringing up the green arrow by a couple of seconds and have to wait for the adjacent green ball to come up - or even worse, to wait another long cycle for the green arrow.  It would be very useful at intersections where the left turn volumes are greater than the adjoining through movements - usually for a minor side street at a major street.

*cough* New York and the small metal detector sensors motorcycles can't even drive over *cough*. Almost every FYA I've seen in New York is in a great location, with many of these formerly being protected-only. One FYA will be going in at everyone's favorite intersection in Waterford where NY 32 currently has a protected-only left that backs up quite often.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

vdeane

I have no issue with FYAs replacing protected-only... only replacing doghouses.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jakeroot

Quote from: vdeane on May 03, 2016, 12:53:44 PM
I have no issue with FYAs replacing protected-only... only replacing doghouses.

Because you feel it's a waste of money, or you prefer doghouses?

Ian

Quote from: jakeroot on May 03, 2016, 01:11:13 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 03, 2016, 12:53:44 PM
I have no issue with FYAs replacing protected-only... only replacing doghouses.

Because you feel it's a waste of money, or you prefer doghouses?

For me, it's because I prefer doghouses  :D
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vdeane

Ditto.  I find red arrows on a green ball to be extremely annoying.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

ekt8750

Quote from: MASTERNC on May 02, 2016, 09:04:54 PM
Quote from: cl94 on May 02, 2016, 05:37:23 PM
Protected-only is very useful for double left turns for many reasons. Similarly, if visibility is limited or the turn is across more than two lanes of traffic, protected-only should be considered for safety reasons. Very few intersections anywhere have a doghouse for turns across 3+ lanes. An FYA is the best of both worlds, as a protected-only signal is often installed if opposing traffic for a portion of the day is heavy enough to prevent left turns.

Ask Delaware about that one.  There are several intersections on US 202 with doghouse signals that require crossing 3 lanes of cross traffic.

Are you referring to the Concord Pike portion? I dunno when the last time you were on the road but most if not all of their turn signals are of the protected variety these days. In fact at the big circle-that's-not-a-circle in Talleyville you'll find protected arrow signals pointing in all sorts of directions and they confuse the hell out of novices.



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