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Article: When Does a $5 Toll Cost $30 ? When One Drives A Rental Car.

Started by PHLBOS, September 12, 2014, 08:42:16 AM

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PHLBOS

This week's (Sept. 12) Bloomberg Businessweek Article covers a potential financial pitfall regarding the increased presence of cashless toll road systems (aka AET) when one rents a vehicle.

Quote from: Opening Paragraph of ArticleWith the rise of "cashless"  turnpikes, where tolls are collected via a device such as EZ-Pass rather than at tollbooths, rental car companies have found two ways to pass those costs on to their customers, both unpopular: Customers can choose to rent a pass for as much as $20 a day, which they'll pay whether or not they pass through a toll plaza, or they can pay the fines for going through the lanes without a pass, plus a hefty processing fee tacked on by the rental company.
One option around this would be for current EZ-Pass holders to take their transponders with them when they travel by air or train; but one might want to alert their provider that they will be using their transponder on a rental car (some agencies could surcharge for unauthorized use). 

However, such is not a solution for the individual who would otherwise have no reason to carry a transponder of their own (example: they reside in an area that does not have toll facilities nor accepts EZ-Pass).

Prior to AET, a rental car user could simply decline and pay the cash toll out of their own pocket; usually, such was significantly cheaper than renting a transponder.  Now that option seems to be disappearing.  Additionally, in many instances; simply avoiding a tolled facility is not necessarily an option.

Quote from: Article ExcerptMany consumers also fume about a daily dun from rental companies for electronic-payment devices–even when they don't use a toll road. Others contend that pricing for the devices is often too expensive–$20.49 per day in New York City, for example–and motivate a renter to skip the gadget and face charges later. (The Northeast has the highest tolls in the U.S.)
Quote from: Final Paragraph of ArticleThe spread of electronic toll collection, in turn, has created a new industry of businesses that pursue toll scofflaws–along with a debate about what constitutes a reasonable profit for tracking down a toll payment that is often minimal. "Part of what happened is that this sort of technology was implemented and kind of caught everyone off guard,"  says Jason Hoyh, an executive at Enterprise, the parent of Alamo, Enterprise, and National. "You have travelers asking, "˜What am I supposed to do?'"

Thoughts?
GPS does NOT equal GOD


oscar

We just discussed this at length, in the A Couple Fights the Cost of a Crossing thread.

As was pointed out there, one option would be for toll agencies to allow renters to make an online "one-time toll payment", so the rental car company doesn't get charged for the toll.  I used that system when driving a rental on a toll road in Orange County CA.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

SidS1045

Re buying a tag to use on rental cars: E-ZPass in Massachusetts does not permit "floating" toll tags.  Each tag on a given account must be "paired" to at least one vehicle and all vehicles using tags must be entered into the user's account.  You'd need to pick up your rental, then before driving off sit there with an Internet-connected device, log into your account and enter the vehicle info, so you don't come home to a mailbox full of violation notices.

I learned this the hard way.  The first time I had a loaner car while mine was being serviced, I received several violation notices because I had taken the tag from my car with me to use in the loaner.  They were all dismissed, but I was told that to avoid them I had to enter the loaner/rental vehicle info before using the tag.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

PHLBOS

Quote from: oscar on September 12, 2014, 09:24:57 AM
We just discussed this at length, in the A Couple Fights the Cost of a Crossing thread.
Thanks for the info.  However, that thread started veering off into several tangents towards the latter pages.  In my defense, that thread started while I was away on vacation for over a week and I had no internet access during that period; which was why I never saw it.

While the article in that thread dealt with one case; this article covers the issue more broadly (involving more than one rental car agency and more than one customer).

Nonetheless, if yours was the only reply to this thread; I would've had just deleted mine and reposted the article there.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

vdeane

Quote from: oscar on September 12, 2014, 09:24:57 AM
We just discussed this at length, in the A Couple Fights the Cost of a Crossing thread.

As was pointed out there, one option would be for toll agencies to allow renters to make an online "one-time toll payment", so the rental car company doesn't get charged for the toll.  I used that system when driving a rental on a toll road in Orange County CA.
My preferred option would be for rental companies to keep their surcharges very low.  They should be equal to whatever cost is incurred by the company to process the toll transaction.  They should not be profiting off of transponder/plate toll transactions.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Brandon

Quote from: SidS1045 on September 12, 2014, 10:27:01 AM
Re buying a tag to use on rental cars: E-ZPass in Massachusetts does not permit "floating" toll tags.  Each tag on a given account must be "paired" to at least one vehicle and all vehicles using tags must be entered into the user's account.  You'd need to pick up your rental, then before driving off sit there with an Internet-connected device, log into your account and enter the vehicle info, so you don't come home to a mailbox full of violation notices.

I learned this the hard way.  The first time I had a loaner car while mine was being serviced, I received several violation notices because I had taken the tag from my car with me to use in the loaner.  They were all dismissed, but I was told that to avoid them I had to enter the loaner/rental vehicle info before using the tag.

By contrast, ISTHA allows you to use the transponder in a number of vehicles and link accounts if you have 2 or more.  With a rental, all you really need to do is to make sure you have the transponder in the windshield as you go through the toll plaza.  If you will have the rental for a while, you can simply add it as another vehicle on the transponder through their website, but it is not necessary.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

oscar

Quote from: PHLBOS on September 12, 2014, 12:05:21 PM
Nonetheless, if yours was the only reply to this thread; I would've had just deleted mine and reposted the article there.

Having been in the duplicate thread situation myself on another subject, that would've required moderator intervention.  The mods might be able to merge the threads if they think it's needed, but I don't.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Pete from Boston


Quote from: vdeane on September 12, 2014, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: oscar on September 12, 2014, 09:24:57 AM
We just discussed this at length, in the A Couple Fights the Cost of a Crossing thread.

As was pointed out there, one option would be for toll agencies to allow renters to make an online "one-time toll payment", so the rental car company doesn't get charged for the toll.  I used that system when driving a rental on a toll road in Orange County CA.
My preferred option would be for rental companies to keep their surcharges very low.  They should be equal to whatever cost is incurred by the company to process the toll transaction.  They should not be profiting off of transponder/plate toll transactions.

This will happen when there are no more transponders and every car is tracked all the time, and the tracking info carefully protected just like phone records and web browsing history are now.

vdeane

Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 12, 2014, 06:00:03 PM

Quote from: vdeane on September 12, 2014, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: oscar on September 12, 2014, 09:24:57 AM
We just discussed this at length, in the A Couple Fights the Cost of a Crossing thread.

As was pointed out there, one option would be for toll agencies to allow renters to make an online "one-time toll payment", so the rental car company doesn't get charged for the toll.  I used that system when driving a rental on a toll road in Orange County CA.
My preferred option would be for rental companies to keep their surcharges very low.  They should be equal to whatever cost is incurred by the company to process the toll transaction.  They should not be profiting off of transponder/plate toll transactions.

This will happen when there are no more transponders and every car is tracked all the time, and the tracking info carefully protected just like phone records and web browsing history are now.
Why not just pass a law requiring the rental companies to play ball?  I don't see why it would require transponders to go the way of the dodo or for cars to be tracked anywhere.  When the company gets their transponder statement or the pay by plate bill, they know which car it was and when the transaction occurred.  Should be trivial to look up who had the car at the time and change the toll plus a 25 cent "toll transaction fee" to their credit card on file.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Duke87

Quote from: SidS1045 on September 12, 2014, 10:27:01 AM
E-ZPass in Massachusetts does not permit "floating" toll tags.  Each tag on a given account must be "paired" to at least one vehicle and all vehicles using tags must be entered into the user's account.  You'd need to pick up your rental, then before driving off sit there with an Internet-connected device, log into your account and enter the vehicle info, so you don't come home to a mailbox full of violation notices.

So how does that work exactly? If the plate doesn't match the tag, they send the tag owner a violation? Or do they send the plate owner a violation?

Also, does this apply to MA plates and/or MA tags, or would an out of state vehicle with an out of state tag receive a violation?

I know from experience that MTA and PANYNJ don't care what your license plate says so long as you have a valid tag. I would not have guessed this might be an issue.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

SidS1045

Quote from: Duke87 on September 13, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
So how does that work exactly? If the plate doesn't match the tag, they send the tag owner a violation? Or do they send the plate owner a violation?

Also, does this apply to MA plates and/or MA tags, or would an out of state vehicle with an out of state tag receive a violation?

The violation notice came to me, the tag owner, since I was driving a car that wasn't registered to me.  If the dealership that let me use the loaner received a violation notice, they didn't tell me about it.  Since other E-ZPass states have different rules, I don't believe it applies to out-of-state tags or vehicles.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

Pete from Boston


Quote from: vdeane on September 13, 2014, 01:38:33 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 12, 2014, 06:00:03 PM

Quote from: vdeane on September 12, 2014, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: oscar on September 12, 2014, 09:24:57 AM
We just discussed this at length, in the A Couple Fights the Cost of a Crossing thread.

As was pointed out there, one option would be for toll agencies to allow renters to make an online "one-time toll payment", so the rental car company doesn't get charged for the toll.  I used that system when driving a rental on a toll road in Orange County CA.
My preferred option would be for rental companies to keep their surcharges very low.  They should be equal to whatever cost is incurred by the company to process the toll transaction.  They should not be profiting off of transponder/plate toll transactions.

This will happen when there are no more transponders and every car is tracked all the time, and the tracking info carefully protected just like phone records and web browsing history are now.
Why not just pass a law requiring the rental companies to play ball?  I don't see why it would require transponders to go the way of the dodo or for cars to be tracked anywhere.  When the company gets their transponder statement or the pay by plate bill, they know which car it was and when the transaction occurred.  Should be trivial to look up who had the car at the time and change the toll plus a 25 cent "toll transaction fee" to their credit card on file.

I expect both that such laws will be proposed as AET takes over, and that transponders will become the automotive equivalent of the digital converter box in the near future.

briantroutman

Quote from: SidS1045 on September 12, 2014, 10:27:01 AM
E-ZPass in Massachusetts does not permit "floating" toll tags.  Each tag on a given account must be "paired" to at least one vehicle...

I once got around this by registering an E-ZPass transponder to a 1981 Oldsmobile Diesel Custom Cruiser that my family junked in 1990. At least in the case of the PA Turnpike's E-ZPass portal, the system isn't advanced enough to check that the plate you've listed is currently registered and in use–or even a valid plate number at all.

Quote from: SidS1045 on September 12, 2014, 10:27:01 AM
You'd need to pick up your rental, then before driving off sit there with an Internet-connected device, log into your account and enter the vehicle info..

That's precisely what I do every time I rent a car. The bigger risk, though, is not forgetting to register the rental car before you take off but forgetting to un-register it before you return it to the agency. It hasn't happened yet, but I'm dreading the day I forget and find that the next renter decided to drive laps on the Walt Whitman Bridge all day long.

Quote from: Duke87 on September 13, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
So how does that work exactly? If the plate doesn't match the tag, they send the tag owner a violation? Or do they send the plate owner a violation?

My experience with a number of toll agencies is that, as long as the transponder works, nothing else matters. Perhaps MA is different, but I can't understand why they would be.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 13, 2014, 04:48:03 PM
I expect both that such laws will be proposed as AET takes over, and that transponders will become the automotive equivalent of the digital converter box in the near future.

There are so many coincident trends–the move to AET, the use of congestion pricing, the decline of fuel tax revenues–that I'd be surprised if we don't have a federally mandated standard for bi-directional vehicle/highway communication and tracking by the end of the decade.

hbelkins

Quote from: Duke87 on September 13, 2014, 03:20:08 PM
So how does that work exactly? If the plate doesn't match the tag, they send the tag owner a violation? Or do they send the plate owner a violation?

Also, does this apply to MA plates and/or MA tags, or would an out of state vehicle with an out of state tag receive a violation?

I know from experience that MTA and PANYNJ don't care what your license plate says so long as you have a valid tag. I would not have guessed this might be an issue.

Surely the systems don't read the transponder information and then compare it to plate information that's photographically recorded, and then try to match them up.

When my West Virginia E-ZPass was not read at two Pennsylvania toll booths, I got violations mailed to me because they took the photos of my license plate, looked up the plate owner, and sent them to the address on file. If the systems were interconnected, it should have been able to pair the license plate number to a registered E-ZPass tag.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Duke87

Quote from: SidS1045 on September 13, 2014, 04:37:06 PM
The violation notice came to me, the tag owner, since I was driving a car that wasn't registered to me.  If the dealership that let me use the loaner received a violation notice, they didn't tell me about it.  Since other E-ZPass states have different rules, I don't believe it applies to out-of-state tags or vehicles.

I am now tempted to risk getting a violation in order to test this. :P

Quote from: hbelkins on September 13, 2014, 06:52:32 PM
Surely the systems don't read the transponder information and then compare it to plate information that's photographically recorded, and then try to match them up.

When my West Virginia E-ZPass was not read at two Pennsylvania toll booths, I got violations mailed to me because they took the photos of my license plate, looked up the plate owner, and sent them to the address on file. If the systems were interconnected, it should have been able to pair the license plate number to a registered E-ZPass tag.

It really must vary from agency to agency. I've seen cases from PANYNJ and the NJ turnpike where one of my parents failed to take their tag out of the glove box before going through the toll. The toll came through on our statement as their license plate number rather than the tag number, but it was simply for the toll, no violation.

It seems around here the process works as follows:
1) Is there a valid EZpass tag? If yes, charge it, if no, check the plate number.
2) Is there an EZpass account with that plate number registered to it? If yes, charge it, if no, issue a violation.

But perhaps some agencies don't do step 2, or only do it for in-state plates.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

vdeane

Quote from: briantroutman on September 13, 2014, 06:38:12 PM
There are so many coincident trends–the move to AET, the use of congestion pricing, the decline of fuel tax revenues–that I'd be surprised if we don't have a federally mandated standard for bi-directional vehicle/highway communication and tracking by the end of the decade.
They'd better not.  How would one be a roadgeek if every clinching trip would result in a police visit for "suspicious travel patterns"?

Perhaps I value my privacy too much for this country.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

1995hoo

I drove our RX-7 last night in the I-495 E-ZPass lanes with the transponder scotch-taped to the windshield. I'm not sure whether I've added the car to our account. I'll check the E-ZPass statement Monday and Tuesday. Virginia specifically states you can move the device from car to car, and many years ago I taped a transponder to my parents' windshield when I was riding with them, but the I-495 lanes are a different beast than the Dulles Toll Road (I also had the top down yesterday). Be interesting to see what happens. You can bet if they don't charge my account by Wednesday I'll be paying it via the lanes' website rather than waiting for a bill with the $12 surcharge!
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Stratuscaster

Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2014, 01:33:16 PM
By contrast, ISTHA allows you to use the transponder in a number of vehicles and link accounts if you have 2 or more.  With a rental, all you really need to do is to make sure you have the transponder in the windshield as you go through the toll plaza.  If you will have the rental for a while, you can simply add it as another vehicle on the transponder through their website, but it is not necessary.
I did this a few years ago when I rented a vehicle and traveled between Chicago and Harrisburg, PA - added it to my I-PASS account and used my own transponder.

About 3 months later, I realized I didn't REMOVE the now-returned rental car from my I-PASS account.

To the person who rented that car after me and went through 6 tollbooths on my dime, you're welcome.

rickmastfan67

I know one time that somebody somehow 'hacked' the EZ-Pass system and used one of our two transponder numbers (which was still in the static bag at home) on one of the bridges in NYC while we were driving in WV that same day and decided to pay cash instead because my dad liked have a receipt for proof and because there was no discount using the EZ-Pass at that time.  Took awhile to get that money refunded, but we got it back thankfully.

Pete from Boston

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I was just relating this story to someone driving a rental over toll roads, carrying her E-ZPass from home.  She was holding the transponder up as needed, which made me realize–with AET, it's no longer rven necessarily evident where the toll collection happens.  The Tobin Bridge here, for example, has gantries pop up suddenly outside the City Square tunnel far from the toll booths' former location, with no direct mention.  I guess the lesson is that even with a transponder, if there's no way to attach the transponder, at least leave it someplace it will be read (on the dash?) or you just might be screwed if you miss a gantry.

hbelkins

You can buy little suction cup E-ZPass holders off eBay. Slide your transponder into it and stick it to the windshield, then remove it when you switch vehicles. I have one.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

1995hoo

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 30, 2014, 12:20:38 AM
Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I was just relating this story to someone driving a rental over toll roads, carrying her E-ZPass from home.  She was holding the transponder up as needed, which made me realize–with AET, it's no longer rven necessarily evident where the toll collection happens.  The Tobin Bridge here, for example, has gantries pop up suddenly outside the City Square tunnel far from the toll booths' former location, with no direct mention.  I guess the lesson is that even with a transponder, if there's no way to attach the transponder, at least leave it someplace it will be read (on the dash?) or you just might be screwed if you miss a gantry.

This has definitely been an issue in Northern Virginia recently with the HO/T lanes. There have been complaints from people who claim their E-ZPasses were not read properly and they received bills in the mail. It appears many of these people are the type who want to hold the transponder in their hand or set it on the dash. Problem is, the HO/T lanes aren't like the New Jersey or Pennsylvania Turnpike where it reads your transponder twice (when you enter and when you exit); rather, most of the gantries are over the road and every single one of them reads your transponder. You could pass under as many as seven or eight gantries within 15 minutes depending on where you're going. (The new I-95 lanes are slightly different and use some ramp gantries.) So it's imperative your device be in the proper place for the duration of your trip, and holding it in your hand when you enter and exit isn't sufficient. I think it's fair to say the best thing with AET is never to make any assumptions that just because one area's facilities work a certain way, all of them will work that way.

I definitely think you make a good point about it not being clear to some people where the transponder is read. Using the I-495 HO/T lanes as an example, if you enter from Braddock Road (Route 620), it's around three miles before you hit the first toll gantry. After that one, you hit two more gantries within two miles.




Quote from: hbelkins on December 30, 2014, 12:02:22 PM
You can buy little suction cup E-ZPass holders off eBay. Slide your transponder into it and stick it to the windshield, then remove it when you switch vehicles. I have one.

I believe most E-ZPass agencies will send additional sets of the plastic velcro strips (or whatever you call those things) upon request, though the suction cup might be a good option for people who use rental cars or who have a car in which they seldom use an E-ZPass.

Alternatively, you can use tape as a temporary solution. I've done that twice, both times when I was driving a car that doesn't normally have a transponder in it (once was way back in 2001 with a VDOT Smart Tag driving my mother's car, the other earlier this year with an E-ZPass in my RX-7), and it worked fine both times. I should note in the RX-7 the transponder made a rattling noise due to vibrations; had I been going further than just a local trip, it would have driven me nuts. So tape may not be a great solution for everyone. (My Florida SunPass Mini has been attached using scotch tape, on the advice of members of this forum, since I got it in June 2011 and it's still on the original tape. But that's a very different device from an E-ZPass.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

The Nature Boy

I had a friend once who tried to get the NH DOT to send her new strips for her EZPass. They gave her a hard time because she no longer lived there and wanted them to send it to an out of state address. They eventually gave her one though.

dfwmapper

After living in North Texas for many years and dealing with NTTA, I'm surprised at how terrible so many other toll agencies are. If your tag fails to read on an NTTA road, when the video catches your plate, they run it against their database. If it matches an active tag, it gets charged to that account at the discounted rate. No reason you would ever know it didn't read. No idea what rentals are like around here though.

oscar

Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 30, 2014, 12:59:11 PM
I had a friend once who tried to get the NH DOT to send her new strips for her EZPass. They gave her a hard time because she no longer lived there and wanted them to send it to an out of state address. They eventually gave her one though.

I once bought 3M Dual Lock fastener strips at an Office Depot, instead of spending time, gas, and tolls to pick up some free strips at a Virginia E-ZPass service center.  The ones I bought were larger the Dual Lock strips used to mount transponders, but they can be cut down to size as needed.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html



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