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Article: West Virginia's nameless rural roads getting names

Started by kurumi, January 15, 2013, 11:49:17 PM

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kurumi

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/01/where-the-streets-have-no-name/309186/

"...West Virginia, thanks to a little legal ingenuity, is finally assigning addresses to each of its residents. Eleven years ago, after Verizon was caught inflating its rates for West Virginia customers, the state and the company reached a creative agreement that required Verizon to pay $15 million toward, quite literally, putting West Virginians on the map. Today, the state is using that money to execute one of the most ambitious mapping projects in recent decades. It has assigned about 450,000 formal addresses, but tens of thousands of rural residents are still waiting for theirs....

West Virginia entrusted most of the mapping project to individual counties, tasking 911 directors with naming thousands of streets. Different directors subscribed to different naming philosophies. Mercer County's director pulled names from local history books and Scrabble Web sites. Others Google-Mapped out-of-state towns for inspiration. Some directors gave residents the right to name their own streets, despite the risk that future generations would have to endure, in the case of one town, Crunchy Granola Road. In Raleigh County, some communities named their streets after Disney characters or Vietnam War battles...."

Having said that, some residents like not having an address just fine, and resent such government intrusion.

(If WV's road system is almost 90% state maintained, is the other 10% mostly no-name roads?)
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kphoger

I've mentioned this before, but I grew up in a place where the county roads were unnamed.  My father owned a large poster with every road in the county marked, and every farm labelled.  This was of great use to him, as he's a pastor, and paid regular visits to people who lived in the country.  I drove the gravel roads frequently, and learned how to not navigate without road names.  However, rural Kansas has much more of a grid-based system than West Virginia; I imagine it must be more difficult to navigate without road names in a hilly area.  Since moving away, my home county has gotten names assigned to its rural roads, in order to make emergency response less problematic.  If West Virginia's reaction is anything like the reaction where I grew up, then any hostility toward enacting names will die out quickly after it happens.  People get very used to having road names.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
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Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Bitmapped

Quote from: kurumi on January 15, 2013, 11:49:17 PM
(If WV's road system is almost 90% state maintained, is the other 10% mostly no-name roads?)

The rest is owned by municipalities and the federal government (primarily U.S. Forest Service roads).

vdeane

Quote from: kurumi on January 15, 2013, 11:49:17 PM
Having said that, some residents like not having an address just fine, and resent such government intrusion.

Those residents must never have to ship anything via UPS.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

agentsteel53

Quote from: deanej on January 16, 2013, 11:35:10 AM

Those residents must never have to ship anything via UPS.

I believe it would be very easy to ship from one UPS center to another.  especially if you have a working relationship with your local UPS center. 

"oh hey Don, I've got a package coming; set it aside for me and I'll pick it up next time I'm in town."
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triplemultiplex

Quote from: kurumi on January 15, 2013, 11:49:17 PM

West Virginia entrusted most of the mapping project to individual counties, tasking 911 directors with naming thousands of streets. Different directors subscribed to different naming philosophies. Mercer County's director pulled names from local history books and Scrabble Web sites. Others Google-Mapped out-of-state towns for inspiration. Some directors gave residents the right to name their own streets, despite the risk that future generations would have to endure, in the case of one town, Crunchy Granola Road. In Raleigh County, some communities named their streets after Disney characters or Vietnam War battles...."

Wow I would have a field day if I could be the one naming roads somewhere; especially if I was from around those parts that need road names.  I've seen every road naming theme that probably exists in the last few years.

I've thought about coming up with proper names for addressable county and state highways in Wisconsin as most counties have no names on state & county roads.  Addresses are usual xxxx STH xx or CTH X (state trunk highway & county trunk highway respectively).  If this were the case, that'd be one less obstacle to changing numbers or letters around when needed.
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SP Cook

Quote from: kurumi on January 15, 2013, 11:49:17 PM


(If WV's road system is almost 90% state maintained[/url], is the other 10% mostly no-name roads?)

You are confusing two things.  The WV Country Route numbers are not used in common every day discourse.  These are, rather, 99% used by the DOH for internal accounting purposes.  A person would never say that he lives on "Wayne County Route 9 over 20".  In fact, most people don't even know that that is how you are supposed to say the "fractional" route numbers, or even what number the road they live on is. 

Rather, most roads have local names that have developed by traditon (which are usually signed by the DOH).  However these names often repeat within counties and don't come with house numbers.  Then the USPS would simply number their roadside box in its system.

So a person might live on "Wayne County Route 9 over 20", but their mailing address would be HCR 3, Box 245, Kenova, WV, but where they live would be "about a mile up Sand Creek Road, just past the Methodist Church, before you get to the gas station".   

Obviously this causes problems for non-USPS deliveries, emergency services, etc. 

What the phone company program does is assign a street name to every road in a county, with them never repeating, and then a street number to every house (with the programming skipping vacant areas that might host a house later).  So the example person would now live at "346 Maple Leaf Road, Kenova, WV".  Then the "E-911" program displays exact directions to their house in any ES vehicle. 

The issue is that the names are assigned from a list of street names programmed into the computer (and straight out of the 1940s midwest) with no referance to local geographic names.  So people are told they now live (and have to change all of their mail and such) on "Maple Leaf Road" or "Teaberry Street" or "Oakwood Lane" etc, despite no one having ever called the place that.


hbelkins

In most of Kentucky's counties, the rural routes were converted to numbered street addresses using a mileage-based system. Numbers in the 5xxx-series, for example are between five and six miles from the "0" point. Prior to that, we had "Rt. 1" or "RR 1" addresses, and some routes had HCR addresses.

I did a double-take on this headline, too, because all of the county route, old Delta route and new HARP route signs I've seen have a road name displayed more prominently than the fractional route number.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

kphoger

Quote from: SP Cook on January 16, 2013, 05:04:59 PM
The issue is that the names are assigned from a list of street names programmed into the computer (and straight out of the 1940s midwest) with no referance to local geographic names.  So people are told they now live (and have to change all of their mail and such) on "Maple Leaf Road" or "Teaberry Street" or "Oakwood Lane" etc, despite no one having ever called the place that.

Reminds me of Perry County, Illinois.  I have a hard time imagining farmers/settlers naming their roads Calla Lily, Morning Glory, Poinsietta, Rose of Sharon, Tulip, Babys Breath, Buttercup, Geranium; Canary, Parakeet, Turtledove, Titmouse; Chipmunk, Hyena, Panda Bear, Elephant.  But I can easily imagine farmers' reaction to such a scheme.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

tollboothrob

Quote from: hbelkins on January 16, 2013, 10:04:31 PM
In most of Kentucky's counties, the rural routes were converted to numbered street addresses using a mileage-based system. Numbers in the 5xxx-series, for example are between five and six miles from the "0" point. Prior to that, we had "Rt. 1" or "RR 1" addresses, and some routes had HCR addresses.

Upshur County, West Virginia's addressing/mapping ordinance assigns a number to every 10.56 feet, allowing for an accurate mileage based system and numbers for future construction. Upshur is currently in the process of implementing this. My parents still use the RR address but we have the new 911 address.

PDF of Upshur County's mapping/addressing ordinance, if you're interested: http://www.upshurcounty.org/Comm/Addr.pdf
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Bitmapped

Quote from: tollboothrob on January 19, 2013, 04:35:40 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 16, 2013, 10:04:31 PM
In most of Kentucky's counties, the rural routes were converted to numbered street addresses using a mileage-based system. Numbers in the 5xxx-series, for example are between five and six miles from the "0" point. Prior to that, we had "Rt. 1" or "RR 1" addresses, and some routes had HCR addresses.

Upshur County, West Virginia's addressing/mapping ordinance assigns a number to every 10.56 feet, allowing for an accurate mileage based system and numbers for future construction. Upshur is currently in the process of implementing this. My parents still use the RR address but we have the new 911 address.

PDF of Upshur County's mapping/addressing ordinance, if you're interested: http://www.upshurcounty.org/Comm/Addr.pdf

I believe the 10.56 feet per address standard is being used statewide.  This equates to 1000 addresses per mile.

6a

Quote from: deanej on January 16, 2013, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: kurumi on January 15, 2013, 11:49:17 PM
Having said that, some residents like not having an address just fine, and resent such government intrusion.

Those residents must never have to ship anything via UPS.

In the late '90s I lived in a county in Virginia that didn't name roads and can only remember a couple times a UPS guy had trouble finding my place.  If they ever had a problem, they'd call and I would give them directions, but most of the guys knew the area well enough.

vdeane

Doesn't everyone except USPS have a "we will not ship to PO boxes" policy?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

agentsteel53

Quote from: deanej on February 05, 2013, 11:12:48 AM
Doesn't everyone except USPS have a "we will not ship to PO boxes" policy?

UPS definitely does. 

again, I think rural package recipients have an arrangement with a local business - either a UPS store, or a place in town where they know the owner.

I actually know someone who receives his packages at the local hardware store so his wife doesn't find out how much he's spending on antiques crap!  :-D
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kphoger

Quote from: 6a on February 04, 2013, 10:34:54 PM
Quote from: deanej on January 16, 2013, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: kurumi on January 15, 2013, 11:49:17 PM
Having said that, some residents like not having an address just fine, and resent such government intrusion.

Those residents must never have to ship anything via UPS.

In the late '90s I lived in a county in Virginia that didn't name roads and can only remember a couple times a UPS guy had trouble finding my place.  If they ever had a problem, they'd call and I would give them directions, but most of the guys knew the area well enough.

That's great for the drivers who've done the area for a while.  But I can tell you from personal experience that it's a fun time doing rural delivery for the first time in an area.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hbelkins

Quote from: deanej on February 05, 2013, 11:12:48 AM
Doesn't everyone except USPS have a "we will not ship to PO boxes" policy?

Some of the shippers now have agreements with USPS, wherein they will deliver the package to the post office and then the post office will put the package, or a notice to pick it up, in the PO box. I have received several packages that way at my post office box.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

6a

Quote from: deanej on February 05, 2013, 11:12:48 AM
Doesn't everyone except USPS have a "we will not ship to PO boxes" policy?

PO boxes, yes.  In my case I had a rural route box, which although appears similar in addressing (Rt. 1 Box 564C in my case,) functions the same as 1234 Main St. as far as UPS and FedEx are concerned.

vdeane

I have a campus box that carriers will deliver to so I don't normally get any issues, but there are a LOT of people who don't know that non-PO boxes exist; nearly everyone I know incorrectly writes my address as "PO Box XXXX" even though the correct form is "Box XXXX".  Thankfully all the post office cares about is the zip code and the mailroom only cares about the box number.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

kphoger

Quote from: hbelkins on February 05, 2013, 01:38:59 PM
Quote from: deanej on February 05, 2013, 11:12:48 AM
Doesn't everyone except USPS have a "we will not ship to PO boxes" policy?

Some of the shippers now have agreements with USPS, wherein they will deliver the package to the post office and then the post office will put the package, or a notice to pick it up, in the PO box. I have received several packages that way at my post office box.

And I wish I could opt out of that when I order something to be shipped by another carrier.  This is the second place I've lived where we've had trouble with USPS; we've also had multiple woes with FedEx in various locations (one involving a call to the CEO's secretary, which is a story in and of itself), so we try to ship everything UPS if we have a choice (our UPS driver is also super-cool-awesome).

Yet UPS or FedEx will sometimes pass off the package to be delivered by USPS without bothering to ask or inform us first (we have a "normal" address, BTW).  One time, we waited and waited, called FedEx or UPS (whichever it was), and they advised us to enquire at the post office.  The post office told us they couldn't find our item, but that it had been scanned in days ago.  Nobody had a straight answer.  Everyone assured us they would let us know whenever they found out anything.  Yeah, right.  A few days later, it showed up with no explanation or phone call.  It had simply been lost by the post office and apprently found later.  This all could have been avoided if I could simply elect not to have my package passed off to another carrier.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

vdeane

I find stuff like that annoying because it makes it more difficult to track the package.  I once had one that went from USPS to UPS without notice; I don't remember how I discovered that, because it was in the UPS tracking system with the USPS tracking number, rendering the google track package feature useless.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.



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