Interstate System, What's Next?

[hbelkins]

Just because the money was federal doesn't mean it just appeared by magic.  If the Feds hadn't put in the 90% match, there would probably have been no Federal gas tax, or at least much lower.  So most states would probably have higher state gas taxes and be funding major routes out of that.

However, the low-traffic rural interstates would have been built to lower standards:  some cross traffic, perhaps only 2 lanes instead of 4.

Not quite sure I agree with that. How many interstates were built through states that don't particularly benefit from them? I'm thinking about I-95 in the Carolinas, I-70 in Utah, and could probably come up with a few others if I thought hard enough.

What benefit would it have been for South Carolina to build I-95 to help travel between the northeast and Florida? How much benefit would the state's residents get as opposed to passers-through?

[kkt]

Just because the money was federal doesn't mean it just appeared by magic.  If the Feds hadn't put in the 90% match, there would probably have been no Federal gas tax, or at least much lower.  So most states would probably have higher state gas taxes and be funding major routes out of that.

However, the low-traffic rural interstates would have been built to lower standards:  some cross traffic, perhaps only 2 lanes instead of 4.

Not quite sure I agree with that. How many interstates were built through states that don't particularly benefit from them? I'm thinking about I-95 in the Carolinas, I-70 in Utah, and could probably come up with a few others if I thought hard enough.

What benefit would it have been for South Carolina to build I-95 to help travel between the northeast and Florida? How much benefit would the state's residents get as opposed to passers-through?

Perhaps they would have built it following US 1 through Raleigh, Columbia, and Augusta?

If it's seen as only benefiting out of state travelers, they could make it a toll road.

[jwolfer]

Just because the money was federal doesn't mean it just appeared by magic.  If the Feds hadn't put in the 90% match, there would probably have been no Federal gas tax, or at least much lower.  So most states would probably have higher state gas taxes and be funding major routes out of that.

However, the low-traffic rural interstates would have been built to lower standards:  some cross traffic, perhaps only 2 lanes instead of 4.

Not quite sure I agree with that. How many interstates were built through states that don't particularly benefit from them? I'm thinking about I-95 in the Carolinas, I-70 in Utah, and could probably come up with a few others if I thought hard enough.

What benefit would it have been for South Carolina to build I-95 to help travel between the northeast and Florida? How much benefit would the state's residents get as opposed to passers-through?

Gas tax from out of state drivers, sales tax and hotel tax as well

South Carolina maintains 26 about the same as 95, 26 links Charleston to Columbia and Spartanburg, SC major cities.

At least NC has done a lot of upgrades on i85.

Georgia has fully six laned 95 which carries traffic to and from Florida mainly.

[SP Cook]

Gas tax from passers thru and hotel motel and general sales taxes are certainly not nothing, but there remain plenty of interstates where the state took one for the team, so to speak. What does I-77 (very expensive cuts, one and a half tunnels) do for Virginia? 

It is also somewhat of an overstatement when one looks at linking "the big cities"  of a state together as the biggest deal in the world.  Certainly, that is a thing, and it benefits politicians, state workers, ball teams playing in playoffs, fans of good ole state U, and others, but in many cases regular people in  disparate parts of a state do not, and do not want to, interact all that much.  Getting tied to a market, even one across state lines, if often much more important.

[Strider]

Tolls will rule the interstate system for the next 50 years, unfortunately. Time to prepare for shunpike.

[slorydn1]

I don't believe travelers on I-95 in NC will have to worry about tolls anytime soon. Governor Easley proposed that very idea  and it died a pretty quick death. The legislative members from the I-95 corridor counties, a mixture of both parties, were vehemently opposed to tolling I-95 in any form or fashion. The two governors that came after him, one Democrat and one Republican, wouldn't even speak of it in a public setting.


Other than the new routes that have already passed Congress recently, I don't see any major happenings on the Interstate system in the next 25 years. Heck, I don't consider my I-42 (yeah I act like I own it now-lol) to be major, it only goes from Raleigh to eastern NC-and it probably won't be completed until after the OP's 25 year window has closed anyway. Same for the southern I-87. I don't ever see it getting into Virginia, and if it somehow does, definitely not in the 25 year window.
[edit: It took me so long to type my thoughts I forgot that the OP said "25-50 years"]

I guess my definition of major might be a little to restrictive, though. If you want to impress me, get I-20, I-30, and I-70 at least close to both coasts (I don't expect to see sand collecting at the base of the END signs, lol). If they make that happen, I'll consider that major. But I really don't see any of those things happening.


Now, on the technology side, I believe we are heading towards automated vehicles allowed on the Interstate system, and it could be sooner than we think, especially in commercial trucking. I can foresee road trains of several trucks in a row plodding along in the right lane on rural interstates to be taken over by drivers when they get close to their urban destinations for the actual delivery of the goods, and I don't think that is every far into the future.


On the private car side we are already seeing GPS units with traffic updates and road closure information that is pretty much in real time. My Garmin Nuvi 2698LMT was pretty much on point during a sudden snow squall on I-40 back in February. I think further refinements on this technology are right around the corner.

[kphoger]

I think most things will be minor, not major.

Safety improvements, mainly. More and more cable barriers in the median, tight loop ramps replaced by three-level interchanges, cloverleaves replaced by parclos, etc.

Widening some rural stretches where traffic is thick. I anticipate several of these being funded by adding tolls.

Open-road tolling extended to rural Interstates.

Removal of rest areas.

[cpzilliacus]

I see VA, NC and SC tolling interstate 95 like Delaware at the state lines.  Other states around the country May do same

Delaware gets away with it because the Delaware Turnpike was built with no federal dollars.

FHWA is not likely  to approve that on any freeway built with federal dollars.

[cpzilliacus]

I don't believe travelers on I-95 in NC will have to worry about tolls anytime soon. Governor Easley proposed that very idea  and it died a pretty quick death. The legislative members from the I-95 corridor counties, a mixture of both parties, were vehemently opposed to tolling I-95 in any form or fashion. The two governors that came after him, one Democrat and one Republican, wouldn't even speak of it in a public setting.

I-95 across most of North Carolina is a terrible freeway - its early and substandard overall design, substandard interchanges and above all a need to widen from the current four lanes to at least six and probably eight are all needed, and there's not enough dollars available from the traditional sources to fund same.

So what to do?

[kalvado]

I don't believe travelers on I-95 in NC will have to worry about tolls anytime soon. Governor Easley proposed that very idea  and it died a pretty quick death. The legislative members from the I-95 corridor counties, a mixture of both parties, were vehemently opposed to tolling I-95 in any form or fashion. The two governors that came after him, one Democrat and one Republican, wouldn't even speak of it in a public setting.

I-95 across most of North Carolina is a terrible freeway - its early and substandard overall design, substandard interchanges and above all a need to widen from the current four lanes to at least six and probably eight are all needed, and there's not enough dollars available from the traditional sources to fund same.

So what to do?

Published traffic counts on I-95 in NC seem to be in 30-40K range mostly with some areas peaking at 50.. I am not sure if that warrant 6 lanes, not to talk about 8.
Few mile of urban stretches are somewhat different story, but then so are the costs..

[J N Winkler]

Removal of rest areas.

On that issue, I don't think the trend has been consistently in one direction.  It is certainly true that many states have closed rest areas, but others (e.g., Iowa and Texas) have been refurbishing them and installing modern amenities like wifi.  I suspect the impetus for rest area closures in states that are currently considering them will become much weaker if, and when, there is an increase in the federal gas tax that is adequate to meet identified highway infrastructure needs.

[cpzilliacus]

Published traffic counts on I-95 in NC seem to be in 30-40K range mostly with some areas peaking at 50.. I am not sure if that warrant 6 lanes, not to talk about 8.
Few mile of urban stretches are somewhat different story, but then so are the costs..

Having driven I-95 across North Carolina many times, there are several problems with much  of the freeway in  that state, including:

0. Your citation of traffic volumes does not take into account estimates of future traffic, nor the percentage of commercial vehicle traffic, especially tractor-trailer combinations.

1.  Drivers Nestoring (see Wikipedia entry about  the late John Oliver Nestor, MD) in the left lane for mile after mile, causing "rolling" backups, made worse by commercial vehicles (though they are not generally the ones doing the Nestoring).

2. Many substandard interchanges along I-95 in North Carolina that need total reconstruction.  EDIT: Like this and these.

[kalvado]

Published traffic counts on I-95 in NC seem to be in 30-40K range mostly with some areas peaking at 50.. I am not sure if that warrant 6 lanes, not to talk about 8.
Few mile of urban stretches are somewhat different story, but then so are the costs..

Having driven I-95 across North Carolina many times, there are several problems with much  of the freeway in  that state, including:

0. Your citation of traffic volumes does not take into account estimates of future traffic, nor of percentage of commercial vehicle traffic, especially tractor-trailer combinations.

1.  Drivers Nestoring (see Wikipedia entry about  the late John Oliver Nestor, MD) in the left lane for mile after mile, causing "rolling" backups, made worse by commercial vehicles (though they are not generally the ones doing the Nestoring).

2. Many substandard interchanges along I-95 in North Carolina that need total reconstruction.

I assume tolls would be especially effective in eliminating (1)...

[jeffandnicole]

Published traffic counts on I-95 in NC seem to be in 30-40K range mostly with some areas peaking at 50.. I am not sure if that warrant 6 lanes, not to talk about 8.
Few mile of urban stretches are somewhat different story, but then so are the costs..

Having driven I-95 across North Carolina many times, there are several problems with much  of the freeway in  that state, including:

0. Your citation of traffic volumes does not take into account estimates of future traffic, nor of percentage of commercial vehicle traffic, especially tractor-trailer combinations.

1.  Drivers Nestoring (see Wikipedia entry about  the late John Oliver Nestor, MD) in the left lane for mile after mile, causing "rolling" backups, made worse by commercial vehicles (though they are not generally the ones doing the Nestoring).

2. Many substandard interchanges along I-95 in North Carolina that need total reconstruction.

Nestoring, while an excuse to have at least 3 lanes, wouldn't be a reason to provide 3 lanes.  How do you justify having a 3rd lane to reduce the changes of getting behind 2 vehicles going the same speed, especially when those vehicles are travelling at or above the speed limit?  And since the justification of a 3rd lane depends on either peak hour or overall traffic volumes, the overall average of that traffic isn't going to fluctuate much because of this Nestoring.

[cpzilliacus]

I assume tolls would be especially effective in eliminating (1)...

Don't count on it - I have experienced sometimes severe Nestoring on the two lanes each way sections of the Pennsylvania Turnpike East-West mainline, especially between New Stanton and Breezewood.

[amroad17]

Published traffic counts on I-95 in NC seem to be in 30-40K range mostly with some areas peaking at 50.. I am not sure if that warrant 6 lanes, not to talk about 8.
Few mile of urban stretches are somewhat different story, but then so are the costs..

Having driven I-95 across North Carolina many times, there are several problems with much  of the freeway in  that state, including:

0. Your citation of traffic volumes does not take into account estimates of future traffic, nor the percentage of commercial vehicle traffic, especially tractor-trailer combinations.

1.  Drivers Nestoring (see Wikipedia entry about  the late John Oliver Nestor, MD) in the left lane for mile after mile, causing "rolling" backups, made worse by commercial vehicles (though they are not generally the ones doing the Nestoring).

2. Many substandard interchanges along I-95 in North Carolina that need total reconstruction.  EDIT: Like this and these.

The second example (Dunn, Exit 72/US 421) is the first section of I-95 built in NC in 1959.  There is a growth among the interchanges but the freeway and interchanges have remained the same for 57 years. 

The first example (Smithfield/Selma, Exit 95/US 70 Bus.) has not changed for 56 years.

Basically, the section from Exit 70 south of Dunn to Exit 79 in Benson has stayed the same for 57 years.  The last time I drove through there was 2005 and noticed the substandardness of that stretch of I-95.  It was rather interesting to see the very early interstate finished product, however, this section does need to be modernized as well as the section near Smithfield and Selma--especially with US 70 upgraded to I-42.  In fact, I-95 needs to be modernized between Exit 56 north of Fayetteville to Exit 107 in Kenly.  It doesn't have to be six lanes, but four lanes with a wider median.  You can see on Google how the median is very narrow in the section mentioned above.  I-95 south of Exit 56 and north of Exit 107 have the wider medians (because those sections were completed in 1980 and 1978, respectively).

Now the cost of this would be in the billions because many bridges would have to be raised/rebuilt and there would have to be some property acquisitions at some interchanges.  I know that traffic counts are not extremely high through these sections, however, something should be done in preparation for future increases in traffic counts.  With hindsight being 20/20, what NC should have done was modernize I-95 in the 1980's and 1990's instead of trying to build US 220 and US 311 to interstate standards just so an I-sign could be posted.  Right now I-73 and I-74 are seemingly safer to travel on than the above mentioned substandard section of I-95.

[cpzilliacus]

Nestoring, while an excuse to have at least 3 lanes, wouldn't be a reason to provide 3 lanes.  How do you justify having a 3rd lane to reduce the changes of getting behind 2 vehicles going the same speed, especially when those vehicles are travelling at or above the speed limit?  And since the justification of a 3rd lane depends on either peak hour or overall traffic volumes, the overall average of that traffic isn't going to fluctuate much because of this Nestoring.

Three lanes makes Nestoring much more difficult. 

Even the most-clueless and Nestoring-prone drivers appear to stay out of the left lane when  there are three or more lanes present (not sure why this is). 

I am not sure why, but Nestoring is generally not a "team sport."  It's usually one or two clueless people one behind the other in the left lane.  Note however that the late Dr. Nestor himself liked to Nestor in the left lane of a three-lane or four-lane cross-section of freeway, but he was doing this deliberately. 

Most Nestorers appear not doing it to impede others, but because they are either clueless, or (in some cases) because they are intimidated by traffic entering the freeway from the right (this may be especially acute along long sections of the North Carolina part of I-95, where there are no acceleration lanes at all for entering traffic).