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Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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KEVIN_224

I couldn't help but notice that about I-81 and Wilkes-Barre! These two pictures are from the western terminus of I-84 in Dunmore, PA. Pictures taken September 13, 2016.




jemacedo9

In the first photo above, the next sign bridge has a sign listing "Scranton Exits" - so the implication is that you are actually already in Scranton at that point...so no need to list Scranton as a control city at that point.  Also, at that point, Scranton exits are on both I-81 North and I-81 South.

Rothman

Quote from: jemacedo9 on September 23, 2016, 08:54:37 AM
In the first photo above, the next sign bridge has a sign listing "Scranton Exits" - so the implication is that you are actually already in Scranton at that point...so no need to list Scranton as a control city at that point.  Also, at that point, Scranton exits are on both I-81 North and I-81 South.

^This.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

roadman65

On I-81 they need to do this at the PA 581 exit going NB.  It should list the Harrisburg exits on both roads (although it would have to be I-83's exits as PA 581 does not have exits for Harrisburg) and Hazelton should be used at the NB ramps from Wertzville Road  and US 11 & 15 as that is really after the first Harrisburg exit.

PA 581 serves the city better and should be used as a signed first Harrisburg exit along with Front Street and Cameron Street giving the reason to post a sign pre PA 581 for those three exits to be given.

The above is at Scranton so you cannot really list that city for either way on I-81.  The way they did it is perfect.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jemacedo9

Quote from: roadman65 on September 23, 2016, 01:20:41 PM
On I-81 they need to do this at the PA 581 exit going NB.  It should list the Harrisburg exits on both roads (although it would have to be I-83's exits as PA 581 does not have exits for Harrisburg) and Hazelton should be used at the NB ramps from Wertzville Road  and US 11 & 15 as that is really after the first Harrisburg exit.

PA 581 serves the city better and should be used as a signed first Harrisburg exit along with Front Street and Cameron Street giving the reason to post a sign pre PA 581 for those three exits to be given.

The above is at Scranton so you cannot really list that city for either way on I-81.  The way they did it is perfect.

I don't know if I agree that 581 is a better option for Harrisburg...it kinda depends on where in Harrisburg you're going and time of day.  581/83 can get pretty backed up.  There are times where, even if you're going to Downtown Harrisburg, where I-81 to Front St may be better than PA 581 to I-83 to 2nd St.

I like what was done from the other way, on I-81 south approaching I-83...the control cities are North Harrisburg for I-81, and South Harrisburg for I-83.

noelbotevera

Quote from: jemacedo9 on September 23, 2016, 02:20:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 23, 2016, 01:20:41 PM
On I-81 they need to do this at the PA 581 exit going NB.  It should list the Harrisburg exits on both roads (although it would have to be I-83's exits as PA 581 does not have exits for Harrisburg) and Hazelton should be used at the NB ramps from Wertzville Road  and US 11 & 15 as that is really after the first Harrisburg exit.

PA 581 serves the city better and should be used as a signed first Harrisburg exit along with Front Street and Cameron Street giving the reason to post a sign pre PA 581 for those three exits to be given.

The above is at Scranton so you cannot really list that city for either way on I-81.  The way they did it is perfect.

I don't know if I agree that 581 is a better option for Harrisburg...it kinda depends on where in Harrisburg you're going and time of day.  581/83 can get pretty backed up.  There are times where, even if you're going to Downtown Harrisburg, where I-81 to Front St may be better than PA 581 to I-83 to 2nd St.

I like what was done from the other way, on I-81 south approaching I-83...the control cities are North Harrisburg for I-81, and South Harrisburg for I-83.
Ditto on that. Generally if I have to go north or south on 11/15 and do things in the north side of the city, I take 81. If I'm heading to Hersheypark, or going downtown, I do 581/83. Usually I haven't had any traffic problems unless it's summer during the AM rush, where people try to head to Hersheypark. Even then the main backup was on PA 39 or US 322, and was usually on the weekends.

noelbotevera

So I've been wondering about this...why is the US 322 freeway not complete from Boalsburg to State College? Not much development is in the way and I'm not sure if the forest is protected land. At most a neighborhood would be destroyed, and even then it's small.

I never heard if any proposals existed and were fought back with opposition, considering that the bypass of State College was constructed in 1981 and they had no problems.

KEVIN_224

I'm clueless with those parts of Pennsylvania. I've only been west of the Susquehanna River twice ( * ), both times in Cumberland County, PA. Both times involved City Island and the Harrisburg Senators baseball stadium...going the wrong way one time and a different friend getting towards I-83 when he should've done the Turnpike east instead. I'm from central Connecticut. I remember the drive south down I-81 being quite hilly out of Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, with the terrain flattening out almost immediately near mile marker 90 or so. That was in 2011, so I'll have to check the notes I took.

I know this picture from 2011 was likely in Chambersburg, PA. The visiting players for other Eastern League baseball teams stayed here.


* - I was once at PIT airport in Findlay, PA near Pittsburgh. It was for a stop on a Southwest Airlines flight from BWI in Maryland to MDW (Midway) in Chicago. I don't count the air space I fly over. However, I was definitely on the ground at PIT, so I count it.

noelbotevera

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on September 24, 2016, 11:04:01 PM
I know this picture from 2011 was likely in Chambersburg, PA. The visiting players for other Eastern League baseball teams stayed here.

:-D :-D :-D

Nah, that's a couple miles north of Camp Hill. You were off by about 50 miles.

KEVIN_224

5401 Carlisle Pike, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050

I knew it ended in -burg though! It was from the lot of the Park Inn by Radisson - Harrisburg West. The main drag was US Route 11.

briantroutman

#385
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on September 24, 2016, 06:00:13 PM
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20160925_Amtrak_s_slow_ride_to_Pittsburgh.html

Philly.com comparing why it takes Amtrak so long to get between Philadelphia towards Pittsburgh, comparing it to the Turnpike and a short flight.

As I read the article, I began thinking that it's ironic that driving via the Turnpike is a faster alternative considering that, had the South Penn Railroad been completed, its alignment may never have been re-used for the Turnpike, and we'd have a much straighter, lower-elevation rail route between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh.

And then I saw that, not only did the article acknowledge this fact, it went on to say that PennDOT studied the cost of building trackage along the Turnpike ROW but dismissed it out of hand as far too expensive.

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on September 24, 2016, 06:00:13 PM
I remember the drive south down I-81 being quite hilly out of Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, with the terrain flattening out almost immediately near mile marker 90 or so.

Yes–just north of Exit 90 (PA 72 - Lebanon) you pass through a gap in Blue Mountain, a continuous ridge that necessitates two separate PA Turnpike tunnels over 100 miles apart–the Blue Mountain tunnel on the main line and the Lehigh Tunnel on the Northeast Extension.

Quote from: jemacedo9 on September 23, 2016, 02:20:20 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 23, 2016, 01:20:41 PM
PA 581 serves the city better ...

I don't know if I agree that 581 is a better option for Harrisburg...it kinda depends on where in Harrisburg you're going and time of day.  581/83 can get pretty backed up.

Having lived in Harrisburg for a number of years, I can confirm that the decision to use PA 581 vs. I-81 does heavily depend on specifically where in the city you're headed. Even without traffic, if your destination is almost anywhere north of Market (which encompasses the majority of the city's land area), you're better off taking I-81. With heavy traffic, you're almost certainly better off to take I-81. I-83 comes much closer to the visible center of downtown, but its poor connections to the city's street grid and frequent congestion severely handicap its usefulness.

Another wrinkle you should consider with regard to I-81, I-83, and PA 581 control city selections: Though three different numbers, PennDOT considers these three routes to comprise a single beltway ("Capital Beltway" ) and the half of the beltway that's east of the Susquehanna River is surrounded by Harrisburg mailing addresses on all sides. So in a sense, all three routes can serve "Harrisburg" -bound traffic in both directions under various circumstances–for example, I'd often go west on PA 581 from Mechanicsburg to loop back to I-81 northbound to get back to my apartment that was nominally in "Harrisburg" .

noelbotevera

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on September 24, 2016, 11:38:24 PM
5401 Carlisle Pike, Mechanicsburg, PA 17050

I knew it ended in -burg though! It was from the lot of the Park Inn by Radisson - Harrisburg West. The main drag was US Route 11.
If it really was Chambersburg, the main drag is actually US 30. There's a ton of development on that road.

KEVIN_224

#387
https://goo.gl/maps/S2vK8W7UtyF2

https://goo.gl/maps/ppNt8U2obEN2 (zoom shot from their lot on G.S.V.)

It was definitely this hotel. I took the picture of that gantry from their big parking lot, back in July of 2011.

74/171FAN

Quote from: briantroutman on September 24, 2016, 11:54:34 PM
Another wrinkle you should consider with regard to I-81, I-83, and PA 581 control city selections: Though three different numbers, PennDOT considers these three routes to comprise a single beltway ("Capital Beltway" ) and the half of the beltway that's east of the Susquehanna River is surrounded by Harrisburg mailing addresses on all sides. So in a sense, all three routes can serve "Harrisburg" -bound traffic in both directions under various circumstances–for example, I'd often go west on PA 581 from Mechanicsburg to loop back to I-81 northbound to get back to my apartment that was nominally in "Harrisburg" .

Personally, I am not a fan of the "Capital Beltway" name mainly as it confuses me with the Capital Beltway around DC being less than two hours from Harrisburg via US 15 and I-270.  Part of that can be blamed on me being from VA I guess; however, I am unsure if that would matter since I would know they both are "Capital Beltways" anyway more than likely.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

epzik8

Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 25, 2016, 08:31:35 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on September 24, 2016, 11:54:34 PM
Another wrinkle you should consider with regard to I-81, I-83, and PA 581 control city selections: Though three different numbers, PennDOT considers these three routes to comprise a single beltway ("Capital Beltway" ) and the half of the beltway that's east of the Susquehanna River is surrounded by Harrisburg mailing addresses on all sides. So in a sense, all three routes can serve "Harrisburg" -bound traffic in both directions under various circumstances–for example, I'd often go west on PA 581 from Mechanicsburg to loop back to I-81 northbound to get back to my apartment that was nominally in "Harrisburg" .

Personally, I am not a fan of the "Capital Beltway" name mainly as it confuses me with the Capital Beltway around DC being less than two hours from Harrisburg via US 15 and I-270.  Part of that can be blamed on me being from VA I guess; however, I am unsure if that would matter since I would know they both are "Capital Beltways" anyway more than likely.
My dad, from Prince George's County, would agree with you.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

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epzik8

70 MPH SPEED LIMIT IN PA ALERT! 70 MPH SPEED LIMIT IN PA ALERT!
I-79 at Mount Morris at the West Virginia line.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

My clinched highways: http://tm.teresco.org/user/?u=epzik8
My clinched counties: http://mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/epzik8.gif

qguy

Quote from: noelbotevera on September 24, 2016, 01:39:54 PM
...why is the US 322 freeway not complete from Boalsburg to State College? Not much development is in the way and I'm not sure if the forest is protected land. At most a neighborhood would be destroyed, and even then it's small.

I never heard if any proposals existed and were fought back with opposition, considering that the bypass of State College was constructed in 1981 and they had no problems.

Do you mean from Potters Mills to State College? Traveling westbound on US 322, the freeway ends just east of the Potters Mills Gap and starts again at Boalsburg, continuing to State College.

In the early 00s, PennDOT had an active project in design for completing the freeway from Potters Mills to Boalsburg, called South Central Centre County Transportation Study (SCCCTS).

Here's a link to a presentation that has on the first slide after the title slide a graphic that shows the preliminary alternatives studied under the SCCCTS. The alternatives were eventually narrowed down to four or five, IIRC.
http://www.crcog.net/vertical/sites/%7B6AD7E2DC-ECE4-41CD-B8E1-BAC6A6336348%7D/uploads/COG_GF_PMG_presentation_short_version(1).pdf

You can see that some alternatives continued the freeway from Potters Mills to Boalsburg, some continued it from Potters Mills to I-99/US 220 near Bellefonte, and some extended the freeway in a Y-shape from Potters Mills to both places.

Either way if this project had gone to construction, US 322 would today be a continuous freeway from Harrisburg to State College, save for a short section near Duncannon, on the west bank of the Susquehanna River. (That section near Duncannon is four-laned but not center-medianed or grade-separated.)

In 2004, however, officials in District 2-0 were within approximately two weeks of selecting a preferred alternative when then-Governor Ed Rendell deferred the project indefinitely, citing a lack of funds. District officials were livid. (At the same time, Gov. Rendell also indefinitely deferred completion of the freeway gap of US 220 just west of Williamsport, in District 3-0, despite a preferred alternative having already been selected. Officials in that district were none too pleased either, to greatly understate it. But I digress.)

At any rate, PennDOT District 2-0 made short-term improvements along that stretch of US 322 in the meantime (like widening the roadway without adding lanes, and providing turning lanes in places). They also broke up the original project area into smaller chunks, the easier to manage improvements and (more importantly) fund them.

The first freeway extension project to reach the construction stage is the Potters Mills Gap project. The freeway will be extended through the eponymous gap and grade separation will be provided at Sand Mountain Road. The freeway will not continue all the way to the end of the State College Bypass at Boalsburg, however, but will end just west of the PA 144 intersection. Closing the freeway gap all the way will need to wait a few more years (decades?), but it is definitely the medium-to-long-term goal.

Here's a link to PennDOT's project webpage. The page features a link to a series of summary graphics that feature a good diagram/map of the project.
http://www.crcog.net/vertical/sites/%7B6AD7E2DC-ECE4-41CD-B8E1-BAC6A6336348%7D/uploads/COG_GF_PMG_presentation_short_version(1).pdf

Bitmapped

Quote from: epzik8 on September 26, 2016, 07:38:00 PM
70 MPH SPEED LIMIT IN PA ALERT! 70 MPH SPEED LIMIT IN PA ALERT!
I-79 at Mount Morris at the West Virginia line.


This happened back in May. See https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2016/20160502143015.htm.

vdeane

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: epzik8 on September 26, 2016, 07:38:00 PM
70 MPH SPEED LIMIT IN PA ALERT! 70 MPH SPEED LIMIT IN PA ALERT!
I-79 at Mount Morris at the West Virginia line.


And it's been 70 mph on the PA Turnpike for a few years now.

VTGoose

Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 25, 2016, 08:31:35 AM
Personally, I am not a fan of the "Capital Beltway" name mainly as it confuses me with the Capital Beltway around DC being less than two hours from Harrisburg via US 15 and I-270.  Part of that can be blamed on me being from VA I guess; however, I am unsure if that would matter since I would know they both are "Capital Beltways" anyway more than likely.

I may be having a CRS moment, but in the old m.t.r. days didn't Scott Kozel have meltdowns over PennDOT using (usurping) "Capital Beltway" from The Only Real And True Capital Beltway?

Bruce in Blacksburg
"Get in the fast lane, grandma!  The bingo game is ready to roll!"

Rothman

Quote from: VTGoose on September 29, 2016, 10:28:59 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 25, 2016, 08:31:35 AM
Personally, I am not a fan of the "Capital Beltway" name mainly as it confuses me with the Capital Beltway around DC being less than two hours from Harrisburg via US 15 and I-270.  Part of that can be blamed on me being from VA I guess; however, I am unsure if that would matter since I would know they both are "Capital Beltways" anyway more than likely.

I may be having a CRS moment, but in the old m.t.r. days didn't Scott Kozel have meltdowns over PennDOT using (usurping) "Capital Beltway" from The Only Real And True Capital Beltway?

Bruce in Blacksburg


I've always thought that designation in Harrisburg was pretty silly myself.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

cl94

Quote from: Rothman on September 29, 2016, 12:12:34 PM
Quote from: VTGoose on September 29, 2016, 10:28:59 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on September 25, 2016, 08:31:35 AM
Personally, I am not a fan of the "Capital Beltway" name mainly as it confuses me with the Capital Beltway around DC being less than two hours from Harrisburg via US 15 and I-270.  Part of that can be blamed on me being from VA I guess; however, I am unsure if that would matter since I would know they both are "Capital Beltways" anyway more than likely.

I may be having a CRS moment, but in the old m.t.r. days didn't Scott Kozel have meltdowns over PennDOT using (usurping) "Capital Beltway" from The Only Real And True Capital Beltway?

Bruce in Blacksburg


I've always thought that designation in Harrisburg was pretty silly myself.

It would be one thing if it was a continuous road. It isn't.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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jemacedo9

The only small credence I'll give it is - this happened not too long after the gap in PA 581 was closed, which was when the entire road was designated PA 581.  Before then, the freeway ended at US 11/Carlisle Pike, and had no posted number.  So...to encourage folks to use PA 581 instead of getting hung up on I-83 on the East Shore, this was a way to assert that the combination of I-81, I-83, and PA 581 could be considered a Beltway.  I'm OK with it.

noelbotevera

Quote from: jemacedo9 on September 29, 2016, 02:31:03 PM
The only small credence I'll give it is - this happened not too long after the gap in PA 581 was closed, which was when the entire road was designated PA 581.  Before then, the freeway ended at US 11/Carlisle Pike, and had no posted number.  So...to encourage folks to use PA 581 instead of getting hung up on I-83 on the East Shore, this was a way to assert that the combination of I-81, I-83, and PA 581 could be considered a Beltway.  I'm OK with it.
Then again, if you knew what you were doing you could've used US 15 along the West Shore to avoid I-83 traffic pre-581. I believe I did that once on a trip because 581 was closed and 83 was jammed.



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