Tolling I-80 Not Dead Yet

[PAHighways]

When we think I-80 is out, they keep pulling it back in!

Congress this fall will have to act on renewing the Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act, and there is talk of modifying it so tolls can be enacted on additional federally funded highways which are currently free routes.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09051/950413-147.stm

[mightyace]

You just can't keep a bad idea down!   

If a law like the one mentioned in the article passes.  "Freeways" may be a thing of the past.   

[vdeane]

This is outrageous.  PA will probably become one giant PA Turnpike if this passes.  I can imagine states like NY would not hesitate to toll their roads either.

[Stephane Dumas]

what idea they might have next? Tolling I-80 with express toll lanes while the current lanes will be "local" lanes

[Voyager]

Would enough people pay for it to justify building them?

[yanksfan6129]

Oy, we do not need another toll road. How are people in the northeast supposed to get to the west? In terms of major routes west:

I-90: Almost completely tolled all the way from Boston, MA to Chicago, IL

I-86/ NY 17: Not tolled. Good southern bypass of the NYS Thruway to get west. Only problem is, it runs into PA, which then runs into OH, which after passing thru Cleveland, turns into the OH Turnpike.

I-84: Not Tolled.

I-80: Not tolled until OH Turnpike. . .for now. This is an essential route from NYC to the west.

I-78: Not tolled, but runs into the Tolled PA Turnpike

I-76: Mostly tolled in PA, then turns into OH Turnpike. Intersects I-80 and you have a chance to go not tolled toward Cincinnati, I think

I-70: Not tolled in MD, turns into PA Turnpike.

[mightyace]

Would enough people pay for it to justify building them?

I don't think there's enough traffic on I-80 in PA for "express" and "local" lanes. 

I've been traveling that road for over 40 years (the first dozen as a passenger), and while truck traffic is fairly heavy, auto traffic is very low, except when Penn State has a home football game.

Also, much of the right of way was dug or blasted out of the Pennsylvania mountains and would be very expensive to widen.

So, I'd say no there wouldn't be.  Since congestion is not a problem, everyone would still take the "free" lanes and avoid the tolled ones.

Unlike the urban interstates, the idea to toll I-80 is not to relieve congestion but to generate revenue to pay for I-80's upkeep and other transportation projects in the state.  (Most of the transportation projects are in Philly and Pittsburgh which I-80 goes nowhere near!)

[mightyace]

I-86/ NY 17: Not tolled. Good southern bypass of the NYS Thruway to get west. Only problem is, it runs into PA, which then runs into OH, which after passing thru Cleveland, turns into the OH Turnpike.

If I-80 is ever tolled, I predict that I-86/NY 17 would get a lot of diversion traffic that currently uses I-80.

On the west side, you'd leave the Ohio turnpike much sooner.  On the east side, future I-86 intersects I-84 which would get the New England traffic and New York traffic could take the last few miles of the NY Thruway from where NY 17 meets it.

[vdeane]

I don't think the money would even go to transportation.  If PA would just stop using the road money for parks and beaches they probably wouldn't even need to think about tolling I-80.

[PAHighways]

This is outrageous.  PA will probably become one giant PA Turnpike if this passes.

It almost became that before Eisenhower enacted the Highway Act of 1956.

I doubt there is anything to worry about considering how long this idea has been discussed and yet it has not come to fruition.

[mightyace]

It almost became that before Eisenhower enacted the Highway Act of 1956.

I doubt there is anything to worry about considering how long this idea has been discussed and yet it has not come to fruition.

As much as I like to complain about things (see above posts), I think PAHighways may be right.  I-80 was originally proposed as a northern Turnpike and ever since the thing has been completed as a free highway, someone has wanted to turn it into a toll road!

[vdeane]

I think the only reason it's failed before is because it's currently unlawful.  Politicians will probably love the idea of putting tolls on currently free roads - what a great way to get more money while seemingly imposing any burden on your constituents (after all, when they talk about stuff like this they NEVER mention their own area).

[mightyace]

I think the only reason it's failed before is because it's currently unlawful.  Politicians will probably love the idea of putting tolls on currently free roads - what a great way to get more money while seemingly imposing any burden on your constituents (after all, when they talk about stuff like this they NEVER mention their own area).

I know.  Every time you have a new tolling proposal you hear something about how most of the traffic is from out of state and they should/will actually be paying the highway.  Blah, blah, blah

[Ian]

luckely I never travel I-80 in PA 

[Sykotyk]

The ONLY state that can use the 'out of state' argument is Wyoming with I-80.

Otherwise, it's an equal proposition. Throw in the fact that it's federal money that pays the vast majority of interstate construction, and the argument, honestly, doesn't hold water.

States are afraid to raise the fuel taxes on the whole because it looks bad 'raising taxes'. Because, no matter the reasoning, putting up 'toll booths' to most people doesn't equate 'tax'. It simply becomes an 'expense' that only the people using it will pay.

What people don't realize is, that if you live in Pennsylvania, and you never drive one mile on I-80, you've benefited from its existence. Traffic diversion, transportation of goods and services, etc.

Also, most of the wear and tear of a road is from truck drivers, and they pay for the road many times above and beyond what a car will ever pay. And regardless of where they buy diesel, they pay the fuel tax for the state they use it in.

Sykotyk

[mightyace]

I found this on http://www.tollroadsnews.com

Bill to stop tolls on PA/I-80 could hit many interstate toll projects

The fight continues...

If you scroll down to the bottom, you'll see that North Carolina is building part of their outer loop as NC 540 instead of I-540.  That brings up the possibility of "de-designating" I-80 in PA and then tolling it. 

If PA wants to de-designate I-80 fine, but they should still have to repay the federal highway money used over the last 40+ years on the road.

[mightyace]

I don't see FHWA allowing de-designation of I-80, not without a specific Act of Congress.

Neither do I, but I won't be surprised if PA tries it.

[Scott5114]

So PA wants to have I-80 truncated to somewhere in Ohio just so they can toll it?

If they're serious about this, can we try to de-designate Pennsylvania as a state? See how they like it...

[mightyace]

If they're serious about this, can we try to de-designate Pennsylvania as a state? See how they like it...

Well, it's not a state, anyway.  It's a "commonwealth." (like Virginia, Massachusetts, Kentucky and Puerto Rico Territory) 

[Scott5114]

Okay, then, can we trade PA for Puerto Rico with regard to representation in Congress?

[mightyace]

Okay, then, can we trade PA for Puerto Rico with regard to representation in Congress?

ROFL!!!  :bread:

[vdeane]

I don't see what PA even WANTS to toll I-80.  It would cost so much to install the booths and pay collectors that they wouldn't see a single cent of the toll money for a long time.  It certainly wouldn't solve their current issues.

[mightyace]

I don't see what PA even WANTS to toll I-80.  It would cost so much to install the booths and pay collectors that they wouldn't see a single cent of the toll money for a long time.  It certainly wouldn't solve their current issues.

Well, the most recent plan is to only toll at 8 - 10 locations (not all 60+ exits!) and to use electronic tolling. See http://www.paturnpike.com/i80/

I think the idea is that they plan to use the toll money collected above debt service to first pay for I-80's maintenance in the state and any money over that to pay for other transportation projects.

However, like you said, deanej, it is debatable whether there would be any money over debt service.

[vdeane]

Well, electronic tolling would make it impossible for some people to use the road.  Namely, people that don't have ez-pass and are don't like the idea of getting mailed a bill for the toll.

[mightyace]

The part of the plan that is supposed to calm local residents and to get more using EZ-Pass is that local residents, like my dad, wouldn't be charged for the first toll barrier they pass through, only the second on.

But, I agree that a significant number of people, myself included would try to avoid using the road.  Plus, the amount of traffic on I-80 would decrease.  A lot of I-80's current traffic is using 80 to avoid the tolls on the PA Turnpike and the NYS Thruway.  If I-80 were ever tolled, some traffic would divert to those routes because toll fees would no longer be an issue in deciding the route.  Also, I think that New York's Southern Tier Expressway (I-86, NY 17) would see increased traffic as it would be the only long distance freeway between Ohio and New England that would still be free.