The San Gabriel Mountains National Monument

[jfs1988]

There is a proposal to make the San Gabriel Mountains a national monument. The San Gabriel Mountains are part of the two territories of the Angeles National Forest.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-san-gabriels-monument-20141009-story.html

Would this affect CALTRANS in any way? What about County Roads?

[sdmichael]

State Highways and County Highways pass through all sorts of National Monuments. The difference may be that Yosemite NP was created long before those roadways were created, so the sign routes don't go through. Death Valley NP was created AFTER the roadway was a State Highway. I suspect there wouldn't be many changes, if any.

[rschen7754]

The only two that are in the region are SR 2 and SR 39. Since SR 39 practically dead-ends in the mountains, I doubt any change to that one would make a huge difference.

[sdmichael]

State Highways 2, 39, and 138 are near this proposed monument. The main issue with State 39 is the reconstruction/rehabilitation that has to happen to keep it open even to Crystal Lake. Would that be affected by NM status, remains to be seen.

[NE2]

Damn it. This was part of an extension of I-605 to Pearblossom in my 58 Californias plan. Thanks, Obummer!

PS: SR 74 passes through the middle of the Santa Rosa and San Jacinto Mountains National Monument. So the answer is no, it won't affect Caltrans, unless FritzOwl takes over.

[sdmichael]

Damn it. This was part of an extension of I-605 to Pearblossom in my 58 Californias plan. Thanks, Obummer!

PS: SR 74 passes through the middle of the Santa Rosa and San Jacinto Mountains National Monument. So the answer is no, it won't affect Caltrans, unless FritzOwl takes over.

Honestly... leave politics out of this... mmmkay? There is no need, joking or otherwise.

[hm insulators]

Used to do plenty of hiking in the San Gabriels when I lived in California.

[J N Winkler]

Death Valley NP was created AFTER the roadway was a State Highway.

This is correct in the narrow technical sense that Death Valley has been a National Park only since 1994.  Death Valley was declared as a National Monument on February 11, 1933.  SR 190 through the park was included in the 1933 expansion of state highways, and Caltrans' predecessor agency did not forward its recommendations to the California legislature as to which routes to add until March 15, 1933.  (A discussion of the report was the lead article in the April 1933 issue of CHPW.)

The SR 190 article on Wikipedia makes reference to a number of purchase transactions for SR 190 around the time of its addition to the state highway system and the National Monument declaration.  The exposition is very unclear (the editors responsible for the relevant copy seem to be unaware that there are two passes on SR 190 in Death Valley, for example), but one takeaway is that Caltrans and the federal government have shared maintenance responsibility for SR 190 through Death Valley.

In general, I don't think it is a given that a state DOT loses control of a state highway purely through a National Monument or even a National Park being dropped over it.

[NE2]

The SR 190 article on Wikipedia makes reference to a number of purchase transactions for SR 190 around the time of its addition to the state highway system and the National Monument declaration.  The exposition is very unclear (the editors responsible for the relevant copy seem to be unaware that there are two passes on SR 190 in Death Valley, for example), but one takeaway is that Caltrans and the federal government have shared maintenance responsibility for SR 190 through Death Valley.

Are you aware that those raised numbers are references? The relevant ones, 3, 12, and 13, are available online to clear up any confusion. (I remember writing that history years ago, but I don't remember any of the details.)

[sdmichael]

Death Valley NP was created AFTER the roadway was a State Highway.

This is correct in the narrow technical sense that Death Valley has been a National Park only since 1994.  Death Valley was declared as a National Monument on February 11, 1933.  SR 190 through the park was included in the 1933 expansion of state highways, and Caltrans' predecessor agency did not forward its recommendations to the California legislature as to which routes to add until March 15, 1933.  (A discussion of the report was the lead article in the April 1933 issue of CHPW.)

The SR 190 article on Wikipedia makes reference to a number of purchase transactions for SR 190 around the time of its addition to the state highway system and the National Monument declaration.  The exposition is very unclear (the editors responsible for the relevant copy seem to be unaware that there are two passes on SR 190 in Death Valley, for example), but one takeaway is that Caltrans and the federal government have shared maintenance responsibility for SR 190 through Death Valley.

In general, I don't think it is a given that a state DOT loses control of a state highway purely through a National Monument or even a National Park being dropped over it.

Yes, I am aware of the earlier status of Death Valley. Either way, the same thing applies.

[J N Winkler]

Are you aware that those raised numbers are references? The relevant ones, 3, 12, and 13, are available online to clear up any confusion. (I remember writing that history years ago, but I don't remember any of the details.)

I have now looked at the references.  The NPS ones are no longer good but are still retrievable through the Web Archive.  It is possible a later, clumsy edit has made the paragraph hard to follow.  In brief, this is what I have learned:

*  Following the 1933 expansion of the state highway system (proposed routes published March 15, enabling legislation signed by Governor Rolph the following June), Caltrans' predecessor agency paved the state highways that are now part of SR 190, up to the eastern and western boundaries of the monument.

*  The NPS paved what is now SR 190 through the monument.  This length was taken over by the state in 1942.

*  Caltrans' predecessor agency bought out the Eichbaum toll road for $25,000 and handed the portion that was within the monument boundaries to the NPS.

*  Part of the Eichbaum toll road, including the length over Towne Pass, is under modern SR 190.  A short portion that is not, shown on Google Maps as "Old Toll Rd.," intersects SR 190 just to the west of Panamint Springs Resort within the park boundary, and runs southwestward toward Darwin Wash.  However, the distances quoted in the NPS report do not add up.  The report says the eastern terminus of the toll road was at Stovepipe Wells, and the length the state purchased was 30.35 miles, of which the 17 miles within the park boundary was handed over to the NPS.  In actuality the length of SR 190 between Stovepipe Wells and the turnoff for "Old Toll Rd.," all within the park, is 31.4 miles.  The length of "Old Toll Rd." itself is 8.6 miles, some of which is within the park boundary while most is not.

*  The adoption language in the session laws cited in the Wikipedia article suggests that at the time of the 1933 expansion, the newly created LRN 127 had a break across Death Valley National Monument.  It is not completely unambiguous, however, so this interpretation depends on whether you consider "Death Valley" (as written in statute) a point or a polygon.

Yes, I am aware of the earlier status of Death Valley. Either way, the same thing applies.

Not quite.  The issue was whether a state highway needs grandfather protection of some kind in order to remain under state control while traversing a NPS property.  It was suggested that Death Valley has highways under Caltrans maintenance because state control of those roads preceded declaration of the National Monument (which was not in fact the case), while Yosemite does not because the National Park is older than the California state highway system.  But in reality Death Valley represents a case of a highway being taken into state control after the land it traverses entered the NPS system.  In principle I suspect the same could happen at Yosemite, Sequoia/Kings Canyon, and Joshua Tree--all of which have their through roads under NPS control--but Caltrans and the NPS simply find the existing arrangement mutually more convenient.

Redwoods National Park in northern California is another example of a NPS property with the through highway (US 101 in this case) under state control, though in this case I suspect state control preceded creation of the park.

[NE2]

The adoption language in the session laws cited in the Wikipedia article suggests that at the time of the 1933 expansion, the newly created LRN 127 had a break across Death Valley National Monument.

Being a fan of anality, you may like to know that the "LRN" abbreviation appears to have been created by Daniel Faigin. I think I have seen "LR" used in official records.

[andy3175]

The notion of creating national monuments and national conservation areas to conserve areas is not a new one: The Carrizo Plain National Monument (http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/bakersfield/Programs/carrizo.html) was established in 2001, and an advocate group would like to see a national monument or conservation area established for the Berryessa Snow Mountain area (http://berryessasnowmountain.org/) in Lake, Napa, and Yolo Counties. It does not surprise me to see a proposal for the wonderfully biodiverse lands of the San Gabriel Mountains. Such a designation would likely limit or prevent expansion of the road network through the area as others have mentioned, and as sdmichael would say, much of this land is not well suited for roads based on the geology of the area.