Municipal Mergers- Who should consolidate

[roadman65]

This here is from another thread that lost direction that should really have one of its own.
It seems that people think that New Jersey should consolidate communities in another thread, that seems to be starting flames already, so I figure lets continue it here and keep the other thread for what it was intended to do.

I think I am all in favor of some boroughs and townships with the same name to be redundant and should merge like Chester Borough and Chester Township in Morris County.  Then Somerville and Bridgewater are another two as people treat them as synonymous anyway. 

Then outside of New Jersey there are places where the counties and its largest city should merge as well that maybe some people feel that they would like to suggest and discuss as well.  Use this here thread as that.

[The Nature Boy]

Michigan has an issue with having a city and a township with the same name. There's Lansing (the state capital) and Lansing Township, both separate entities but with the same name. There's also Saginaw and Saginaw Township and Holland and Holland Township and..........well you get the point.

These could all probably be merged.

[on_wisconsin]

Michigan has an issue with having a city and a township with the same name.

Wisconsin has the same issue as well. There are many, many examples of this all over the state.

[roadman65]

Also I was told by a native Connecticut resident now residing in Florida that Groton, CT are actually two separate entities as well.  You have the City of Groton, and the Town of Groton (which I think is equivalent to a township elsewhere outside of CT).

I believe that Greenwich has the same issue of being both a city and town in the same area.

Yes these should be merged.  Even in cases like Metuchen, NJ that is surrounded by Edison, NJ;  they should be merged as well.

[Scott5114]

Seems to me like townships in general are kind of a waste. In Oklahoma we don't have them at all (other than for survey purposes), with the county administering all services in unincorporated areas, and it works just fine.

There's a lot of areas where it seems like giving them their own county is wasteful. I doubt that Texas really needs 254 counties. There's quite a few of them where a map of the county looks like a square, divided into quadrants by two state highways that cross at right angles, with one town at the center that is the county seat, and if there's any other towns, their populations are less than 500. The only real purpose for having a county like that is to keep the amount of physical space in each county down, but west of Texas there's states with far larger counties that get on just fine.

[roadman65]

I believe that Texas has some counties with only one corporated city within it.  That should be all county just like Arlington, VA where there is no municipality at all and the county government governs the whole county.

Kansas also has some far west counties with only the county seat as the only city corporated within the county.

[Pete from Boston]

New Jersey is a special case that requires a book to explain more than it does a thread.

[Big John]

Michigan has an issue with having a city and a township with the same name.

Wisconsin has the same issue as well. There are many, many examples of this all over the state.

There is even a case in Waukesha County where there was a village of Pewaukee inside a Town of Pewaukee.  The town decided to incorporate but kept the name of Pewaukee as a city, so now there is the Village of Pewaukee surrounded by the City of Pewaukee.

[corco]

Montana has two consolidated city-counties, Butte/Silver Bow and Anaconda/Deer Lodge.

Honestly, it doesn't make too much sense to have independent county governments in most of Montana. Most counties have one or two incorporated cities and are surrounded in ranchland. These counties and cities have barely any revenue, so it's kind of silly for each one to employ a clerk, for instance. That money could be better spent with one consolidated clerk and an extra road maintenance guy or something.

The big issue is in municipal codes/etc- there tend to be more laws in incorporated communities than out in the counties, and often city folks don't want ranchers influencing their decisions or vice-versa. To me, the solution is to maintain separate elected officials but consolidate administrative staffing- and that model is used in Montana in a few places. Billings, Broadview, and Yellowstone County, for instance, share a planning office- the planners report to and are accountable to the elected officials in all three jurisdictions. Missoula did the same with Missoula County for a long time.

I see that as the best way to save money while maintaining some form of independence.

[Pete from Boston]

I believe that Greenwich has the same issue of being both a city and town in the same area.

Wikipedia says there is a CDP called "Greenwich" inside the town, but no government thereof.  Same with the town website.

[xcellntbuy]

In my new home in middle Georgia, the City of Milledgeville (population 19,000+) and Baldwin County (population 47,000) are debating the potential for merging.  Milledgeville is the only separately incorporated municipality within the County.  The City government is opposed and our Representative in the Georgia General Assembly is in favor.  There is even talk of merging Jones County (immediately to the east) and Baldwin County.

Further to the east, Bibb County and the City of Macon have recently completed their merger.

[NE2]

Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista. What the fuck?

[Pete from Boston]

Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista. What the fuck?

Explain, please.

[roadman65]

Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista. What the fuck?

Explain, please.

It is all part of the Reedy Creek Improvement District which is all a Disney entity.

[NE2]

This is Bay Lake:

Lake Buena Vista is just to the east.

There may be some legal reason for having a city within the RCID, but why two cities?

[bandit957]

Consolidation? We need to be doing the opposite - by allowing more independent cities. In most of America these days, the rural areas hate the cities and vote against them. The cities should be allowed to become independent of counties that hate them.

[cpzilliacus]

Consolidation? We need to be doing the opposite - by al*lowing more independent cities. In most of America these days, the rural areas hate the cities and vote against them. The cities should be allowed to become independent of counties that hate them.

In Virginia, cities are by definition independent jurisdictions (dating back to the 19th century), never part of counties (though in spite of that, cities are sometimes the county seat of the surrounding or adjoining county).

Virginia towns are not independent and are always part of a county.

This system has not given the municipalities more (as in liberal as in Democratic) political power in the General Assembly in Richmond.

[MikeTheActuary]

I'm of the opinion that Connecticut made a big mistake when they abolished the county governments.

We're left with 169 town governments, with many functions inefficiently duplicated by most.

I think there would be something to be said for abolishing the towns, and transitioning municipal functions up to the 14 Councils of Governments that were formed because of the complications of abolishing counties.

[bandit957]

This system has not given the municipalities more (as in liberal as in Democratic) political power in the General Assembly in Richmond.

The cities should have more power to govern themselves.

[wxfree]

I believe that Texas has some counties with only one corporated city within it.  That should be all county just like Arlington, VA where there is no municipality at all and the county government governs the whole county.

There are some the are all-county (no cities): Terrell, Loving, Kenedy, Crockett, Motley, Borden, and probably some others.  There are also some counties in which the county seat is not incorporated but there is an incorporated city elsewhere in the county, including Hudspeth, Jeff Davis, and Palo Pinto.  Mineral Wells is big enough to reasonably need to be a city.  My guess about Dell City and Valentine is that they felt neglected by the far-away county seat and wanted to run their own government services.

[bandit957]

Central cities are often neglected by the counties they are in - even though the people in the cities are paying most of the county taxes.

How is this not an unconstitutional form of taxation without representation?

[NJRoadfan]

New Jersey is a special case that requires a book to explain more than it does a thread.

Good book.

New Jersey relies on the "New England Towns" method of local government (no unincorporated areas, strong home rule), but still has county government. Yes, many northeastern states have no concept of unincorporated areas that only receive government services from a county and/or state. Its gets more weird in New Jersey. If a municipality does not have its own police force, the STATE POLICE is tasked with protecting it. This is despite every county having its own sheriff's office (required by the state constitution). It gets better, some county sheriff's offices have a patrol division and three counties have a "County Police Department" separate from their sheriff's office!

[Pete from Boston]

Consolidation? We need to be doing the opposite - by allowing more independent cities. In most of America these days, the rural areas hate the cities and vote against them. The cities should be allowed to become independent of counties that hate them.

Free silver!  William Jennings Bryan will save us (after he kills that damn evolutionist propaganda).

[MikeTheActuary]

Consolidation? We need to be doing the opposite - by allowing more independent cities. In most of America these days, the rural areas hate the cities and vote against them. The cities should be allowed to become independent of counties that hate them.

You might ask St. Louis and Baltimore just how well that has worked out for them.

While it depends on state laws, the independence of the cities of St. Louis and Baltimore came at the price of their losing the ability to annex surrounding areas. This creates a problem when people and businesses exit the city, which generally reduces the tax base without a corresponding reduction in the costs of infrastructure maintenance.

To maintain their tax base, cities generally have to do "something", either annexing unincorporated areas which are growing, or taking actions to attract/retain businesses and residents (tricky because municipalities generally lack sufficient foresight and/or the regional planning resources to make that a viable strategy over the long term).

[The Nature Boy]

Consolidation? We need to be doing the opposite - by allowing more independent cities. In most of America these days, the rural areas hate the cities and vote against them. The cities should be allowed to become independent of counties that hate them.

This is a bad argument though because more rural areas in states also hate urban areas and vote against them. Ask an upstate New Yorkers and rural Illinoisian how they feel about NYC and Chicago. Do you propose that we allow each city to be its own state or district? Ask DC how not being in a state has worked out for them.