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NY 17 / I-86 Conversion Resurrected?

Started by Rothman, November 19, 2015, 09:45:48 AM

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Alex

Drove through the Prospect Mountain Project a week ago today and took some rainy photos. Noted that the APL at the I-81 north / NY 17 split already has I-86 acknowledged for the Southern Tier Expressway westbound.

https://www.aaroads.com/blog/2017/01/24/prospect-mountain-project/

Also spotted a state-named shield for I-81 still standing on the mainline, Surprisingly it appears next to a I-86 trailblazer.


roadman65

Corning is now the control city for the Southern Tier Expressway out of Binghamton!  Considering Elmira was always the control place and you have to pass to it to get to Corning, and a fairly decent size community to boot, it does not seem very logical.

Unless the name Elmira has a bad rap being the state prison is there where Corning is known for the Corning Glass factory, is something NYSDOT think is better association.  However, I think that Bud Shuster and his I-99 strikes again, being his route and this new interstate meet there make it a junction city.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

cl94

They're using Corning because of I-99 and it being control city for two other Interstates. Elmira was used in the past because that's where the freeway section (and later I-86) began. New York likes minimizing the number of control cities when possible and it isn't the first time they have deleted a control city. I wouldn't be shocked if Jamestown disappears in the relatively near future.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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WNYroadgeek

Quote from: cl94 on January 24, 2017, 04:52:34 PMI wouldn't be shocked if Jamestown disappears in the relatively near future.

Then what would the westbound control city be past Corning? Erie? Rochester east of I-390?

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: WNYroadgeek on January 24, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: cl94 on January 24, 2017, 04:52:34 PMI wouldn't be shocked if Jamestown disappears in the relatively near future.

Then what would the westbound control city be past Corning? Erie? Rochester east of I-390?

Would look strange if PennDOT kept Jamestown as a control city for I-86 east from I-90, but NYSDOT eliminated it.  If Jamestown were eliminated, I think you'd see Rochester/Erie westbound between I-99 and I-390, and Erie only west of there.  If PennDOT were to eliminate it, you might see Binghamton as a control city.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

cl94

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on January 24, 2017, 10:16:28 PM
Quote from: WNYroadgeek on January 24, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: cl94 on January 24, 2017, 04:52:34 PMI wouldn't be shocked if Jamestown disappears in the relatively near future.

Then what would the westbound control city be past Corning? Erie? Rochester east of I-390?

Would look strange if PennDOT kept Jamestown as a control city for I-86 east from I-90, but NYSDOT eliminated it.  If Jamestown were eliminated, I think you'd see Rochester/Erie westbound between I-99 and I-390, and Erie only west of there.  If PennDOT were to eliminate it, you might see Binghamton as a control city.

No, you'd see Corning, because that's what NYSDOT uses (as does PennDOT for US 15).
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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machias

Quote from: cl94 on January 24, 2017, 04:52:34 PM
They're using Corning because of I-99 and it being control city for two other Interstates. Elmira was used in the past because that's where the freeway section (and later I-86) began. New York likes minimizing the number of control cities when possible and it isn't the first time they have deleted a control city. I wouldn't be shocked if Jamestown disappears in the relatively near future.

Why would Jamestown be eliminated? Having lived in the small city for several years I can tell you that it's a small city but it's certainly viable as a control city. It's not the city's fault that the expressway was built on the wrong side of Chautauqua Lake.  :)

I always thought that the I-90 exit in PA for I-86 should have "Jamestown / New York" or "Jamestown / Corning" or something like that. Just having Jamestown seems silly to me.

roadman65

At one time Olean was used at the I-390 interchange.  As far as control cities go, if NYSDOT likes to minimize control cities go to Orange County.  There on NY 17 you will find Monroe, Chester, and Goshen used WB instead of something like Middletown, Monticello, or Binghamton.

EB NYC is used from I-81 yet Binghamton is only used from I-84 westward.  Oh yes one sign on NY 17 NB where it enters the freeway to go west does use Monticello 42.  The NYSTA uses Harriman like its a local interchange, but they are not NYSDOT, but considering that Scranton is now used at Exit 17, we may see Binghamton soon at Exit 16.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

hbelkins

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on January 24, 2017, 10:16:28 PM
Quote from: WNYroadgeek on January 24, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: cl94 on January 24, 2017, 04:52:34 PMI wouldn't be shocked if Jamestown disappears in the relatively near future.

Then what would the westbound control city be past Corning? Erie? Rochester east of I-390?

Would look strange if PennDOT kept Jamestown as a control city for I-86 east from I-90, but NYSDOT eliminated it.  If Jamestown were eliminated, I think you'd see Rochester/Erie westbound between I-99 and I-390, and Erie only west of there.  If PennDOT were to eliminate it, you might see Binghamton as a control city.

Not really. Where I-64 splits from I-77 in West Virginia, Lewisburg is used. Where 64 splits from I-81 in Virginia, Charleston is used (bypassing Beckley, which is the next interstate junction.)


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

cl94

Quote from: roadman65 on January 25, 2017, 09:23:49 AM
At one time Olean was used at the I-390 interchange.  As far as control cities go, if NYSDOT likes to minimize control cities go to Orange County.  There on NY 17 you will find Monroe, Chester, and Goshen used WB instead of something like Middletown, Monticello, or Binghamton.

EB NYC is used from I-81 yet Binghamton is only used from I-84 westward.  Oh yes one sign on NY 17 NB where it enters the freeway to go west does use Monticello 42.  The NYSTA uses Harriman like its a local interchange, but they are not NYSDOT, but considering that Scranton is now used at Exit 17, we may see Binghamton soon at Exit 16.

The only "official" control cities as NYSDOT sees them are on pull-throughs. By your logic, Saratoga Springs, Glens Falls and Plattsburgh would be I-87 control cities. Goshen and Middletown could be considered US 6 control cities as they are only signed on US 6 pull-throughs. NY 17 itself has Binghamton on pull-throughs well east of I-84 and the NY 17 Middletown one is in NYSTA territory.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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Rothman

Quote from: cl94 on January 25, 2017, 07:34:03 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 25, 2017, 09:23:49 AM
At one time Olean was used at the I-390 interchange.  As far as control cities go, if NYSDOT likes to minimize control cities go to Orange County.  There on NY 17 you will find Monroe, Chester, and Goshen used WB instead of something like Middletown, Monticello, or Binghamton.

EB NYC is used from I-81 yet Binghamton is only used from I-84 westward.  Oh yes one sign on NY 17 NB where it enters the freeway to go west does use Monticello 42.  The NYSTA uses Harriman like its a local interchange, but they are not NYSDOT, but considering that Scranton is now used at Exit 17, we may see Binghamton soon at Exit 16.

The only "official" control cities as NYSDOT sees them are on pull-throughs. By your logic, Saratoga Springs, Glens Falls and Plattsburgh would be I-87 control cities.

:D

https://goo.gl/maps/KZigbxtSpR72
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

roadman65

I do not disagree with NYSDOT giving way to standard control points as I am all for Montreal  on the Northway and Binghamton for all of NY 17 along the Quickway, but you stated NYSDOT gives consistency to keeping one city when in fact Orange County uses the next exits city from NY 208, NY 94, and such.  Binghamton, yes, is used where US 6 splits from the freeway on the pull through.

In retrospect, I would like to see Binghamton used on the Thruway at Exit 16 being NY 17 is a major freeway and it should be signed for long distance travel.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

machias

Quote from: roadman65 on January 26, 2017, 12:48:28 PM

In retrospect, I would like to see Binghamton used on the Thruway at Exit 16 being NY 17 is a major freeway and it should be signed for long distance travel.

I think Binghamton would work quite well for Thruway northbound at Exit 16, but I'm not sure it's appropriate for Thruway southbound. I'd go with Middletown for I-87 SB at Exit 16, as traffic that's headed to Binghamton would most likely take I-84 west to NY 17/I-86.

cl94

SB, Harriman would work. To/from the north, that interchange only sees local traffic. Anyone to Middletown would use I-84. Binghamton traffic from north of I-84 would cut across using US 209 or NY 28/30
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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roadman65

I amend my though about Binghamton for Exit 16 as, after being pointed out it does no good SB.  Leave as is there, but use both Harriman and Binghamton together NB.

Also to point out "Albany" is used on I-81 SB in Binghamton for I-88 even though anyone heading South on I-81 would use the Thruway from Syracuse to make that trip.  So using Binghamton is not that far off the scale.  Of course there are countless examples where the control city is listed that is useless especially when previous other exits would be better.  Heck Florida has many!
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

cl94

I-81 also has traffic from Ithaca and Cortland coming in south of Syracuse. Not really a good comparison.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

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sam158

Quote from: roadman65 on January 27, 2017, 11:53:52 AM
I amend my though about Binghamton for Exit 16 as, after being pointed out it does no good SB.  Leave as is there, but use both Harriman and Binghamton together NB.

Also to point out "Albany" is used on I-81 SB in Binghamton for I-88 even though anyone heading South on I-81 would use the Thruway from Syracuse to make that trip.  So using Binghamton is not that far off the scale.  Of course there are countless examples where the control city is listed that is useless especially when previous other exits would be better.  Heck Florida has many!

Not like there is really anything else on I-88 though besides Oneonta.

cl94

Quote from: sam158 on January 31, 2017, 12:25:15 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 27, 2017, 11:53:52 AM
I amend my though about Binghamton for Exit 16 as, after being pointed out it does no good SB.  Leave as is there, but use both Harriman and Binghamton together NB.

Also to point out "Albany" is used on I-81 SB in Binghamton for I-88 even though anyone heading South on I-81 would use the Thruway from Syracuse to make that trip.  So using Binghamton is not that far off the scale.  Of course there are countless examples where the control city is listed that is useless especially when previous other exits would be better.  Heck Florida has many!

Not like there is really anything else on I-88 though besides Oneonta.

Oneonta, population <14K. New York wouldn't use it unless it's a major junction point. Granted, Corning is smaller, but that is used because of I-99/US 15 and there being nothing else logical for I-390.
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Bumppoman


cl94

Quote from: Bumppoman on January 31, 2017, 04:45:38 PM
Oneonta is the control city at NY-7 east entering I-88.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1339533,-75.8933305,3a,75y,7.79h,92.03t,0.31r/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd9HKxJE7Xbt_HBo99RAVCA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

We could argue that it's a NY 7 control city. Per the official AASHTO control city list, it isn't one for I-88.
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webny99

Is there anything left besides Hale Eddy and some substandard ramps preventing I-86 from being complete to Harriman?
When I was young and naive I thought it was going to be done within a few years, but now I question whether it will even be complete to interstate standards and signed as I-86 within my lifetime.

Rothman

Find my previous post where I laid out the remaining projects.  There are still a half dozen projects to do or so and the costs are estimated to be quite significant. 

I haven't heard official discussion of moving forward with I-86 in quite a long time.

(personal opinion emphasized)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

vdeane

I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining Region 8 projects involve removing more bunny hops (which was the reason for the reconstruction near Middletown).  That would certainly drive the cost up.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

cl94

Quote from: vdeane on January 24, 2018, 01:08:02 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining Region 8 projects involve removing more bunny hops (which was the reason for the reconstruction near Middletown).  That would certainly drive the cost up.

A lot of them are substandard ramps. Almost every exit from 108-131 inclusive is substandard (the recently-reconstructed Middletown ones being the major exception) and most of that is Region 8. 131 is being redone in the near future. Other than eastern Sullivan and the Hale Eddy bypass, little work remaining in Region 9, as the 55 section gets a terrain exemption.
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02 Park Ave

Will the casino opening cause any of these improvements to be expedited?
C-o-H



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