Why are most of the roads in the Indianapolis area signed on I-465?

Started by Roadgeekteen, May 31, 2017, 08:37:01 PM

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Roadgeekteen

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hotdogPi

Indiana only allows a certain number of miles in their highway system, so putting them all on I-465 decreases the number of miles used.

Also, they're not actually signed while they're on I-465.
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cl94

Quote from: 1 on May 31, 2017, 08:41:49 PM
Indiana only allows a certain number of miles in their highway system, so putting them all on I-465 decreases the number of miles used.

Because of that mileage limit, Indianapolis is not the only place this happens. Basically, if a city has a bypass, almost everything in the vicinity is thrown on it.
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silverback1065

I hear this as a reason all the time, I actually think it's more because Indot doesn't feel like taking care of urban roads, they're very expensive. 

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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 31, 2017, 09:08:18 PM
I hear this as a reason all the time, I actually think it's more because Indot doesn't feel like taking care of urban roads, they're very expensive. 

Nexus 6P
I think there are locally maintained state routes in mass.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

silverback1065

In the small towns yes, but in the larger ones not so much. I think it's both reasons mentioned so far.

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NWI_Irish96

I've seen it mentioned in other threads that Indiana is not up against its mileage limit.  The reason for the routings is that INDOT does not want to maintain city streets, so whenever possible they route their state and US routes around cities. 

Fort Wayne, South Bend and Lafayette have also had several miles of highways re-routed around the cities over the years.
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billtm

Quote from: cabiness42 on June 01, 2017, 07:54:23 AM
I've seen it mentioned in other threads that Indiana is not up against its mileage limit.  The reason for the routings is that INDOT does not want to maintain city streets, so whenever possible they route their state and US routes around cities. 

Fort Wayne, South Bend and Lafayette have also had several miles of highways re-routed around the cities over the years.

And in Indianapolis' case you are often better off following the I-465 routing if the goal is to follow the highway through the city in the quickest way possible. I know in Lafayette the new routings are inferior/nonexistent when trying to get from one side of the city to another. At least in Indy the routings do exist and they typically follow the best route.

hbelkins

Seems to me that lots of cities would prefer to maintain their streets themselves and do whatever they want vs. the state owning the streets and the cities having to get state permission to make changes.


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cl94

Quote from: hbelkins on June 01, 2017, 03:41:03 PM
Seems to me that lots of cities would prefer to maintain their streets themselves and do whatever they want vs. the state owning the streets and the cities having to get state permission to make changes.

Which is how it works in the New England states and New York. Generally, everything inside city limits is owned by cities.
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jhuntin1

INDOT has been giving away some state highway routes to local governments who want to make their own improvements. INDOT signs away the road and gives some amount of money for deferred maintenance or the like. Indiana 267 between U.S. 40 and I-74 in Hendricks County is one example.

The Ghostbuster

If I remember correctly, Indianapolis didn't route all their inner-city State and US Highways onto Interstate 465 at once, just gradually. Also if I remember correctly, US 31, US 40 and State Highway 37 still went through town into the 1990s.

silverback1065

i believe 31 was the last one to go and it was in 2002.  37 was supposed to be a freeway inside the loop from 465 and harding up to 69 on the ne side.  nimbys fucked that up though

csw

There are a few ghost ramps at the I-65/I-70 north split in downtown Indy where I-69 was supposed to branch off to the north.

https://goo.gl/maps/n1udPGVeDAk

https://goo.gl/maps/y3uuVx5fcsk

JJBers

Quote from: cl94 on June 01, 2017, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 01, 2017, 03:41:03 PM
Seems to me that lots of cities would prefer to maintain their streets themselves and do whatever they want vs. the state owning the streets and the cities having to get state permission to make changes.

Which is how it works in the New England states and New York. Generally, everything inside city limits is owned by cities.
Not in Connecticut though. CT 2, 2A, 12, 32, 97, 165, 82, 169, and various other unsigned routes exist in one city. Norwich, CT.
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silverback1065

if you do some searching of purdue's owl library, you can get a research paper telling the story of why they highways are where they are.  37 was supposed to be an interstate grade road from harding and 465 up to the west split (65 and west st) then leave the inner loop as 69/37 at the north split.  INDOT fucked up the routing of 69 and honestly 65 too.

roadman65

This thread reminds me of when Ethanman asked why there is no interstate 1, 2 (as TX did not have that one yet), 3, ....32,33,.....etc.

He did not put text in the body of his first thread box, but let the grabbing topic title do the asking.

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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: roadman65 on June 13, 2017, 09:28:53 AM
This thread reminds me of when Ethanman asked why there is no interstate 1, 2 (as TX did not have that one yet), 3, ....32,33,.....etc.

He did not put text in the body of his first thread box, but let the grabbing topic title do the asking.
That was not Ethanman.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Henry

Maybe it was for the best that I-69 is planned to be rerouted in the eastern side of I-465. Had it been built all the way into downtown, how, then, would it continue to Bloomington and Evansville from that point?
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silverback1065

Quote from: Henry on June 14, 2017, 09:39:34 AM
Maybe it was for the best that I-69 is planned to be rerouted in the eastern side of I-465. Had it been built all the way into downtown, how, then, would it continue to Bloomington and Evansville from that point?

Since I live in Indy, not building 69 to the north split was a very stupid mistake, there's no easy way to get downtown.  Like I said the original routing would have allowed that as it could have used SR 37 to get to harding, as that was supposed to be an interstate too, if they cancelled that only, it could have been cosigned with 65 then jumped west on 465, or you could have routed it on 465 and the small piece inside would be another number.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: silverback1065 on June 13, 2017, 01:33:27 AM
if you do some searching of purdue's owl library, you can get a research paper telling the story of why they highways are where they are.  37 was supposed to be an interstate grade road from harding and 465 up to the west split (65 and west st) then leave the inner loop as 69/37 at the north split.  INDOT fucked up the routing of 69 and honestly 65 too.

I thought someone had posted, somewhere in the last 10-12 years, the original proposal(s) of the freeways in Indy (an innerbelt, ala Columbus to the east). I'm not sure if it was here, or back on MTR. Maybe it was Stephen Summer?
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ilpt4u

I'm pretty sure West St was supposed to pretty much be the location of the missing leg of a Downtown Indy Inner Belt

US 89

I believe at one point, Interstate 465 and 69, US 31, 36, 40, 52, and 421, and IN 37 and 67 are all concurrent. If only concurrencies were signed on I-465...

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 15, 2017, 12:43:38 AM
I believe at one point, Interstate 465 and 69, US 31, 36, 40, 52, and 421, and IN 37 and 67 are all concurrent. If only concurrencies were signed on I-465...
Indiana would be bankrupt.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

US 89

Quote from: cl94 on June 01, 2017, 04:30:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 01, 2017, 03:41:03 PM
Seems to me that lots of cities would prefer to maintain their streets themselves and do whatever they want vs. the state owning the streets and the cities having to get state permission to make changes.

Which is how it works in the New England states and New York. Generally, everything inside city limits is owned by cities.

That's just hard for me to wrap my head around. In the SLC area, which is where I'm most familiar with, most roads, especially ones with interchanges at freeways, are state routes, maintained by the state.



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