California state route 180 from Paicines to Mendota being signed as a county rd

[ACSCmapcollector]

California state route 180 from Paicines to Mendota being signed as a county road for a 1938 California Map from the Division of Highways, Department of Public Works, then in 1940 not signed as a county road, for what reason why this happened?

ACSCmapcollector

[ACSCmapcollector]

As in signed as not a state highway, but becoming a county road, explain that Caltrans now?

[NE2]

Because poo.

[Max Rockatansky]

Probably because the original intent for 180 was to reach Salinas Valley more or less close the modern day alignment of Panoche Road and County Route J1.  Said roadway can clearly be seen as county maintained west of Mendota on the 1935 California Divisions of Highway Map of Fresno County:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247281~5515351:Fresno-County-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:california%2Bdivision%2Bof%2Bhighways;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=32&trs=163

And what you're talking about can be seen on the 1938 state highway map:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239588~5511892:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=69&trs=86

-  Interestingly SSR 49 is shown as being signed on County Maintained Roadway north of Sierraville

180 disappears west of Mendota by the 1940 State Highway Map....along with 49 north of Sierraville which really actually became state maintained eventually:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239585~5511890:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=67&trs=86

So essentially it seemed that the Division of Highways in the early signed highway era wasn't exactly stingy about allowing State Signage on roadway that wasn't under their maintenance.  Interesting to think that navigational purposes for signage might have been considered more important than showing who maintained a section of roadway....or it could be as simple as the Division of Highways wanted to maintenance control of those roads that had State Highway signs.

Edit:

Incidentally this was all discussed on the Signed County Route J1 thread a couple months back:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19346.msg2194984#msg2194984

The pictures might be dead because of photo bucket but the informational links work just fine.

[sparker]

Probably because the original intent for 180 was to reach Salinas Valley more or less close the modern day alignment of Panoche Road and County Route J1.  Said roadway can clearly be seen as county maintained west of Mendota on the 1935 California Divisions of Highway Map of Fresno County:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247281~5515351:Fresno-County-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:california%2Bdivision%2Bof%2Bhighways;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=32&trs=163

And what you're talking about can be seen on the 1938 state highway map:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239588~5511892:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=69&trs=86

-  Interestingly SSR 49 is shown as being signed on County Maintained Roadway north of Sierraville

180 disappears west of Mendota by the 1940 State Highway Map....along with 49 north of Sierraville which really actually became state maintained eventually:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239585~5511890:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=67&trs=86

So essentially it seemed that the Division of Highways in the early signed highway era wasn't exactly stingy about allowing State Signage on roadway that wasn't under their maintenance.  Interesting to think that navigational purposes for signage might have been considered more important than showing who maintained a section of roadway....or it could be as simple as the Division of Highways wanted to maintenance control of those roads that had State Highway signs.

Edit:

Incidentally this was all discussed on the Signed County Route J1 thread a couple months back:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19346.msg2194984#msg2194984

The pictures might be dead because of photo bucket but the informational links work just fine.

The 1938 map indicates state maintenance on roadways that are shown as "filled in" double lines on the map (red for hard-paved, yellow for oiled-earth/macadam, and black for dirt (graded or otherwise).  All unfilled double lines were local maintenance.  Three such routes were shown as signed with spades:  180 through the Pacines area west to SSR 25, 33 from 198 north of Coalinga to Mendota, and 28 (now 128) from Winters to Davis.  What I'm wondering is if they were signed -- with the number cited on the map -- with spades, but with the "STATE HIGHWAY" banner across the base of the shield replaced with "COUNTY HIGHWAY", a la the "COUNTY HIGHWAY 12" sign shown in another thread near Isleton, circa the same timeframe.  Of note is the fact that of the three locally-maintained highways shown as shield-signed, only one (33) was eventually adopted into the state system; the others remain locally maintained to this day!

[NE2]

Part of 45 was also locally maintained.

[Max Rockatansky]

Weren't parts of 190 east of US 395/SSR 7 originally signed on county maintained roadway as well? 

[sparker]

Part of 45 was also locally maintained.

Whether the county segment between (current) CA 20 and CA 162 was actually signed as part of SSR 45 (even as a "county route") isn't determined; it certainly doesn't show as such on the 1938 map.  It may have just been one of the gaps that existed back then.  Most of that segment was and still is sitting atop the Sacramento River levee; its ownership and maintenance may have been the parvenu of the state water bureau (which would have expedited the subsequent transfer to the Division of Highways).  It would be interesting to sift through the various archives to see if that segment was actually signed in any form prior to its adoption into the state network.

[NE2]

There is this map that includes 45: http://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up
The strangest one is 104 west of US 99 (hidden on the map but confirmed in the text).

[sparker]

There is this map that includes 45: http://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up
The strangest one is 104 west of US 99 (hidden on the map but confirmed in the text).

This particular map also shows the unadopted segments of 33 and 180 intersecting at Mendota as existing -- indicating they may have been signed but not as of yet maintained (at least by the Division of Highways).  SSR 45 is shown as a broken line between Colusa and (then) the E-W LRN 45, which likely means a planned future adoption.  One thing the '34 map shows is that the state system was just beginning to gel at that point -- but that much of the numbering was tentative at best.  The incursion of U.S. highways starting a year or two after this map was published was to have a profound effect on the original -- and relatively orderly -- scheme (440 and 740 notwithstanding!).

[Max Rockatansky]

In regards to my earlier statement about SSR 190.  It would seem at least by 1935 as evidenced by the Inyo County Road Map part of the routing was indeed county maintained east of Keeler as part of the Eichbaum Toll Road over Townsend Pass:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247289~5515355:Inyo-County-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:california%2Bdivision%2Bof%2Bhighways;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=36&trs=163

Given that the map was from 1935 who knows what if anything was actually signed by then.  Interesting to see Horseshoe Meadows Road as part of the state highway system west of Lone Pine. 

[sparker]

In regards to my earlier statement about SSR 190.  It would seem at least by 1935 as evidenced by the Inyo County Road Map part of the routing was indeed county maintained east of Keeler as part of the Eichbaum Toll Road over Townsend Pass:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247289~5515355:Inyo-County-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:california%2Bdivision%2Bof%2Bhighways;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=36&trs=163

Given that the map was from 1935 who knows what if anything was actually signed by then.  Interesting to see Horseshoe Meadows Road as part of the state highway system west of Lone Pine. 

Signage on main state routes (including, of course, U.S. highways) commenced about 1926-27, but was pretty sporadic on all but main intercity arterials until 1934, when there was a concerted effort to get everything that was deemed worthy of signage actually signed.  Most of that was completed prior to 1939, after the designation of US 6, US 70, US 395, US 95 and other latecomers to the state, which of course affected the priorities within the state network.

Regarding Horseshoe Meadows Road -- it was shown as a dark line (indicative of state routes) on Gousha maps as late as about 1957 or so; shown as paved just west of 395 but segueing into a dirt segment before terminating (at least as far as the state maps indicated).  No shield was attached to that segment on the map, though.  After that time the category indication reverted to that of a local road.  As a kid, I simply figured that the Division of Highways had abandoned their efforts to drag SSR 190 across the mountains.  Later, when I acquired my first official state highway map (ca. '63), it showed a dotted line intersecting US 395 farther south at Olancha as the cross-mountain routing -- the following (renumbering) year the map showed the 190/136 divergence and 190 Olancha reroute, essentially making anything west of Lone Pine moot!

[Max Rockatansky]

In regards to my earlier statement about SSR 190.  It would seem at least by 1935 as evidenced by the Inyo County Road Map part of the routing was indeed county maintained east of Keeler as part of the Eichbaum Toll Road over Townsend Pass:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247289~5515355:Inyo-County-?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:california%2Bdivision%2Bof%2Bhighways;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=36&trs=163

Given that the map was from 1935 who knows what if anything was actually signed by then.  Interesting to see Horseshoe Meadows Road as part of the state highway system west of Lone Pine. 

Signage on main state routes (including, of course, U.S. highways) commenced about 1926-27, but was pretty sporadic on all but main intercity arterials until 1934, when there was a concerted effort to get everything that was deemed worthy of signage actually signed.  Most of that was completed prior to 1939, after the designation of US 6, US 70, US 395, US 95 and other latecomers to the state, which of course affected the priorities within the state network.

Regarding Horseshoe Meadows Road -- it was shown as a dark line (indicative of state routes) on Gousha maps as late as about 1957 or so; shown as paved just west of 395 but segueing into a dirt segment before terminating (at least as far as the state maps indicated).  No shield was attached to that segment on the map, though.  After that time the category indication reverted to that of a local road.  As a kid, I simply figured that the Division of Highways had abandoned their efforts to drag SSR 190 across the mountains.  Later, when I acquired my first official state highway map (ca. '63), it showed a dotted line intersecting US 395 farther south at Olancha as the cross-mountain routing -- the following (renumbering) year the map showed the 190/136 divergence and 190 Olancha reroute, essentially making anything west of Lone Pine moot!

Which makes the whole saga of Sherman Pass Road even more odd, it would certainly seem that the Forest Service wasn't the obstruction in regards to getting 190 over Olancha Pass.  I've heard murmurs over the years that it wasn't so much Olancha Pass that was the problem but the huge drop into Upper Kern River Canyon which really soured the concept of a complete CA 190 over the Sierras.  Really the interesting thing that south of Mineral King the snow level the Sierras tends to get doesn't seem (this is from the eyeball test) to be quite as severe given there aren't that many 10,000 plus peaks obstructing storms.  I'm sure 190 if it ever was completed wouldn't have viable for a main trucking route but there may have been a slim possibility for an all-year pass.