Alcohol sales laws

[hbelkins]

I'm not sure I will ever understand how alcohol sales are regulated.

I made a stop Sunday at the BFS store at I-68 and WV 26 in Bruceton Mills. The store sells wine, beer and liquor. Wine and beer sales were allowed on Sunday, but the liquor section was closed off. What logical reason is there for allowing wine and beer to be sold on Sunday, but not distilled spirits?

And Pennsylvania's beer sales laws are positively messed up.

[jwolfer]

Thanks prohibition! And religious groups that frown upon alcohol use.

Where i live in Clay County, Florida alcojol sales were restricted on Sunday until after 2p. A few years ago there was a referrendum so now all days are the same 7a-2a sales but we still cant buy alcohol on Christmas Day,( cuz its Jesus' birthday and all) the baptists on the county commision keep it that way.

LGMS428

[roadman]

Of all the screwed up things in government, alcohol sales laws are probably the worst.  For example, in Massachusetts, you need a special license to sell alcohol.  One level of license allows you to sell beer and wine, but not hard liquor.  You need a different license to sell beer, wine, and hard liquor.  Plus each city and town has a maximum cap on the number of licenses they can issue.

Once the licenses are issued, they can be bought and sold on the open market (for outrageous money)- with the approval of the local licensing board - which brings in the NIMBY "But we already have too many liquor stores" or "DO we really want a restaurant that will be open until 2 am" arguments.

And if a city or town wants an increase in the number of licenses they can issue, they have to petition the State Legislature to allow that increase.

Now, do you want me to explain what the blue lines in hockey are for?

[inkyatari]

In my town, only local businesses can sell any kind of booze.  Chain stores are forbidden from selling it.

[silverback1065]

come to indiana, where all alcohol sales are banned on sundays, and if you run a grocery store, you must also run a pharmacy if you want to sell liquor, but if you want to just sell beer, that's fine, no need for a pharmacy.  oh ya, only liquor stores can sell the cold stuff, if you're anything else, it must be warm.

[Brandon]

Illinois is a mess of local laws.  There are no state-run stores selling alcohol of any kind.  It's all done through private retail outlets from tiny liquor stores to large supercenters.

Some municipalities allow for selling all alcohol on the main sales floor within specific hours (like, say 6 am to midnight).  Examples include Joliet and Chicago.
Some municipalities allow for selling alcohol only within separate liquor store within a grocery store or supercenter (again, hours apply).  Examples include Plainfield and Naperville.
Some restrict the sales of alcohol tightly, allowing for only beer and wine and only to be sold at grocery stores.  The example here includes Wheaton.  Wheaton used to be the only dry municipality in Illinois until about a decade ago.

[hbelkins]

come to indiana, where all alcohol sales are banned on sundays, and if you run a grocery store, you must also run a pharmacy if you want to sell liquor, but if you want to just sell beer, that's fine, no need for a pharmacy.  oh ya, only liquor stores can sell the cold stuff, if you're anything else, it must be warm.

Are you sure? I was in a Walmart in Corydon, Ind., last winter and they had cold beer. Also pretty sure I saw cold beer in a Walmart near South Bend last fall.

[LM117]

Ha, the small town of Pikeville, NC has an ordinance banning alcohol sales in town limits that goes back at least as far as 1995, with an exception made for Food Lion (opened in 2000), which can sell wine only. Pikeville thought that would keep drunken idiots out of town. Apparently, they still have yet to realize that residents can easily drive 3 FUCKING MILES north on US-117 to Fremont (my hometown) and buy alcohol there and bring it back to Pikeville. Dumbasses.

A few years ago, one of the major gas station chains (I forget which) offered to build a gas station in Pikeville right off the I-795 exit, but they told the town they wouldn't come in unless the town did away with the ordinance. Pikeville told them to fuck off.

[txstateends]

I wish I had $1 for every time I've had to explain TX liquor laws to people (used to work in hospitality, funny how drunks only asked me for something to buy *after* it was unavailable for the night!)...

A city/town/place or a county precinct has to have enough signatures on a petition, which is presented to the appropriate officials.  Those officials will verify the signatures on the petition--and that there are enough--before calling for an election.  Registered voters of the area can vote on the proposition on the election day, and if a majority says yes, the proposition passes.  A proposition can be for:  any combination of beer/wine/liquor sales and/or liquor by the drink at bars/restaurants. 

If an area approves liquor by the drink without having lawful store sales of beer/wine/liquor in the same area, the bar/restaurant has to issue "memberships" to those who want to have drinkies.  They have to check for those with memberships or risk getting stung by the TABC (the state regulatory agency).  Some areas stipulate how long a restaurant or bar can serve.  One of the Dallas suburbs, Frisco, can't serve after midnight; while neighboring Plano can serve till 2am.  Citizens of Frisco have tried at least twice to vote to change their cutoff time till 2am, but enough have voted no both times, so it's still midnight there.  Big metro areas with large amounts of bars/restaurants can do singular memberships called unicards (sorry, I've never known the process on those since I never had one) which dramatically simplifies things for the establishment and the customer.  If an area does allow store sales, then bars/restaurants don't have to fool with memberships.

Most areas that are 'wet' have sales of beer/wine.  Election propositions can be all-in-one for sales of beer/wine/liquor, or separated into multiple propositions (beer, wine, beer/wine, liquor), which might be the case in areas where those that want the election think that sales of beer and/or wine have a better chance of passing than a proposition for liquor sales.  Once an election has passed, the city/precinct has to prepare itself for receiving applications to sell whatever product was approved, as well as any possible zoning they may want (no sales within x feet of a school/church, for example).  Those that want to sell beer/wine can sell it within the confines of an existing grocery or convenience store (if they meet any zoning regulations that were passed), but liquor has to be in a separate area/store (not mixed in with existing store space/stock).  Liquor sales at stores are not allowed on Sundays (one of TX' last 'blue laws'), but can be served on Sundays at bars/restaurants.  If a liquor store has beer/wine/liquor all in one store building, that store won't be able to open on Sundays, even with the presence of beer/wine, which can be sold on Sunday.  Some liquor stores have split storefronts so they can still have one side open for beer/wine sales. 

IIRR, there are exceptions about selling wine for those who operate a winery (a growing industry in TX... pardon the pun) in a local 'dry' area.

While the state regulates sales/activity about booze, it doesn't have it's own stores (like NC, for example).  Most stores that sell booze close between 10:30p and midnight.  Nothing is legally available in TX after 2am (the latest bars/restaurants can serve)... if you want something later, go to Shreveport, they can serve till 6am (because they have casinos).  Some bars open during the week as early as 7am, seemingly to get the shift-worker crowd (or the day-drinkers!!).

Years ago, you had to drive quite a ways to find a 'wet' town/area, now it's almost the opposite!  So many places that have had religious/old-coot influence, have seen what kind of tax revenue they can possibly make, so out go the old ways in those areas.  My dad used to joke back in the day that every lake in TX has at least one 'wet' town on or near it!  Walmart is trying to challenge the state's liquor licensing process (I've forgotten the intricacies of that, but it's restrictive), and I've heard they want to challenge the no-liquor-sales-on-Sunday thing also.

ETA::::: sorry, kids, forgot something--
For those who would like to enjoy a strip club, and drinkies, there are 2 choices in TX.  Either, the strip club will be able to serve you drinks (they have their liquor license), and you don't get to see 'everything'; or, you get to see 'everything' but have to bring your own booze with you (they don't have a liquor license) but usually the place will have setups/ice/mixers/etc to get you started with what you brought.

[Takumi]

Virginia's liquor stores are run by the state, and are the only stores you can buy liquor, while beer and wine can be sold in grocery stores and gas stations and such. I don't know of any dry localities (certainly none close to Richmond), but the city I live in does have a blue law banning alcohol sales before 1PM on Sundays.

[jp the roadgeek]

CT's liquor laws have been liberalized in the past few years (maybe the only good thing our current governor has done).  When I was a kid, liquor stores were only open 9AM-8PM Monday through Saturday, and closed on all Sundays and major holidays.  Currently, liquor sales hours are 8AM-10PM Monday through Saturday, and 10AM-6PM on Sundays.  Beer can be sold in grocery stores and convenience stores during those hours (after hours, they have to be locked in a cooler, covered by tarps, or covered by curtains on a shelf), but hard liquor and wine must be bought in what we call "package stores".  Another stupid law is that liquor stores can't sell potato chips or snacks.  As far as bars, they can stay open till 1:00 Sun-Thu, and 2:00 Fri-Sat.  There is an exception that allows bars to be open till 3:00 AM on New Year's Eve, but they can't stay open for the extra 1:00 hour on the first Sunday in November.  The 2 (soon 3) casinos are also subject to the same serving hours.    Beer can be sold in growlers from taps at a bar, but only during liquor store hours, and they must be tagged or stickered for carryout purposes.  And you can't buy a 6 pack over the bar for takeout.  There are no more remaining dry towns; Bridgewater was the last until just a few years ago. 

[bandit957]

Campbell County legalized Sunday alcohol sales about 10 years ago - around the same time Gallatin County outlawed it.

I do remember going to a camping event in Campbell County on a Sunday back in 1993, and other folks there complaining that they couldn't buy beer anywhere around.

[1995hoo]

Virginia's liquor stores are run by the state, and are the only stores you can buy liquor, while beer and wine can be sold in grocery stores and gas stations and such. I don't know of any dry localities (certainly none close to Richmond), but the city I live in does have a blue law banning alcohol sales before 1PM on Sundays.

At least as of 2013, there were ten Virginia counties in which liquor sales (but not beer and wine sales) were prohibited: Bland, Buchanan, Charlotte, Craig, Floyd, Grayson, Highland, Lee, Patrick, and Russell.

Virginia also places limits on the amount of alcoholic beverages you can bring into the Commonwealth. I don't remember what all the limits are, but for liquor it's one "gallon," a particularly stupid rule since liquor is not sold by the gallon. (There's even a further rule that defines how much liquor sold in metric-sized bottles is deemed to equal a "gallon," given that there are 3.78 litres in a US gallon and it'd be hard to buy that amount of liquor.) The ABC used to run surveillance operations at some liquor stores in DC where they'd observe Virginians loading their cars with more liquor than was allowed; they'd then radio ahead and someone on the other side of the Potomac would bust people. Even today, if you move into Virginia from out of state and you want to bring liquor you already own, you're supposed to apply for an importation permit (I doubt anyone does and I doubt it's enforced). All this is mainly an issue if you're on an international flight arriving at an airport in Virginia because CBP will sometimes (but not always!) enforce state law limiting import amounts. (They're supposed to do this, but I've found that in practice usually the Customs agent can't be bothered with the paperwork and just waves you through.)

BTW, the reason a state can impose those kinds of import limits is that Section 2 of the Twenty-First Amendment, which repealed Prohibition, provides as follows (emphasis added):

The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.

(Note the Supreme Court has held that this provision is subject to other parts of the Constitution that existed prior to the amendment's ratification, such as the Commerce Clause and the Dormant Commerce Clause–for example, a state can't say in-state wineries can ship to in-state customers while banning out-of-state wineries from doing so because that discriminates against interstate commerce and thus violates the Dormant Commerce Clause.)

[vdeane]

(Note the Supreme Court has held that this provision is subject to other parts of the Constitution that existed prior to the amendment's ratification, such as the Commerce Clause and the Dormant Commerce Clause–for example, a state can't say in-state wineries can ship to in-state customers while banning out-of-state wineries from doing so because that discriminates against interstate commerce and thus violates the Dormant Commerce Clause.)

OK, that's weird.  Isn't the point of an amendment to supercede the pre-existing language?  I would think the newer parts of the Constitution would trump (pun not intended) the older parts, not the other way around.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Minnesota just legalized Sunday liquor sales this spring, which went into effect in July after decades of bitching and moaning annually. Liquor stores are only allowed to be open between 11 AM and 6 PM on Sundays. Before this you could still buy a limited selection of beer on Sundays where it was carried in some grocery stores, but only after noon.

The argument against Sunday sales had long shifted from religious reasons to small liquor store owners who feared being run out of business by larger competitors.

[1995hoo]

(Note the Supreme Court has held that this provision is subject to other parts of the Constitution that existed prior to the amendment's ratification, such as the Commerce Clause and the Dormant Commerce Clause–for example, a state can't say in-state wineries can ship to in-state customers while banning out-of-state wineries from doing so because that discriminates against interstate commerce and thus violates the Dormant Commerce Clause.)

OK, that's weird.  Isn't the point of an amendment to supercede the pre-existing language?  I would think the newer parts of the Constitution would trump (pun not intended) the older parts, not the other way around.

The longstanding principle of interpretation is that a provision only repeals or supersedes a prior provision when it explicitly says it does so or necessarily does so by implication–otherwise, you try to give effect to both principles. Also, there's a principle that new provisions (and statutes, for that matter) are enacted with full knowledge of what the law already is and that there is no intention to change existing law unless, again, the new enactment specifically says so or does so because there can be no other logical interpretation.

Think of it this way: Applying the logic in your post, a state could say, for example, that only Catholics could import wine into the state, and that would be OK because any other importation would be "in violation" of the state's laws. (Set aside the point that even during Prohibition, wine was permitted for sacramental purposes because that was deemed not to be a "beverage purpose.") But surely that would raise First Amendment issues, right? Or if they said whites can bring in twice as much liquor as blacks–that would be an equal-protection issue (Fourteenth Amendment). The fundamental point is that the state law has to be a VALID state law. Since the Constitution already prohibited the states from discriminating against interstate commerce (or from favoring one religion over another, in the First Amendment example), and the Twenty-First Amendment doesn't say they can discriminate, the Supreme Court concluded that they can't. The religion and race examples I threw out help show why that's surely correct.

[MNHighwayMan]

I love Iowa's liquor laws. Sales from 6am - 2am Monday through Saturday, and 8am-2am on Sunday (no idea how those two hours make any difference), and you can buy beer, wine, and liquor at just about any supermarket or gas station.

It was weird seeing a shelf full of liquor at a Target the first time.

Edit: This speaks for the Des Moines metro. I have no idea if other localities in the state have differing laws.

[Sctvhound]

South Carolina's alcohol laws are very strict compared to most of the country. Liquor stores are only open 9am-7pm Mon-Sat, and closed on Sundays. Until 2006-2007, bars could only serve mini bottles of alcohol, but that law was changed.

Only 12 counties of 46 allow Sunday alcohol/beer sales, mostly on the coast and the major cities. Charleston County though has 24/7 alcohol sales in stores. There are still places that completely ban alcohol sales on Sunday, mostly in the conservative Upstate, but Sumter (home of Shaw Air Force Base) still bans it.

[ColossalBlocks]

it must be warm.

Stobe the Hobo's number one enemy: Warm beer.

[SP Cook]

I'm not sure I will ever understand how alcohol sales are regulated.

I made a stop Sunday at the BFS store at I-68 and WV 26 in Bruceton Mills. The store sells wine, beer and liquor. Wine and beer sales were allowed on Sunday, but the liquor section was closed off. What logical reason is there for allowing wine and beer to be sold on Sunday, but not distilled spirits?

And Pennsylvania's beer sales laws are positively messed up.

Pennsylvania's liquor laws are notorious for goofy-ness.  It was by design.  When prohibition was repealed, the governor said he wanted to make alcohol purchases "as complex and difficult as possible".  It is actually a little better than it used to be, as they now sell beer in something resembling a retail store, previously you had to carry a six pack out of a bar (with plenty of "bars" that mostly just wanted you to carry out), or a case from a warehouse.

On to WV.  Until the late 80s, WV was like VA and PA in having liquor retailing in the hands of state stores.  Very inefficient system, as the stores moved with every election and, with very few exceptions it was one store per city (although a suburb was a seperate city and could have one, no matter how small).  Kept typical government hours, but if you were in line at 4:00, you were OK.  Workers would "work to rule" carding every single person, which meant they got 6 or 8 hours of overtime every Friday. 

The state sold it off to  private businesses back then.  But kept the prohibition on Sunday sales of hard liquor. 

As to beer and wine, different rules.  Actually until the 90s, different governement agency, we had a "beer commissioner" and a "liquor commissioner" with totally different staffs in different departments.  My favorite WV rule is yet another controting of simple language to avoid the clear language of the Constitution.  The WV Constitution prohibits the "consumption of an intoxicating beverage in a saloon or other public place".  Pretty simple, right?  Well, first the legislature redefined beer as "non-intoxicting beer" and allowed beer to be sold for in-house consumption on that fiction.   Then later it allowed liquor to be sold in "private clubs".  So, for example to use a place from a recent thread, Applebee's has to form the "Applebee's liquor club" and sell "memberships" for $1, with $1 off your first drink.  Back in the day they actually used to give out membership cards and the liquor cops would do a card check every now and then, but it has all fallen to the wayside since, but it still exists on paper.

WV recently passed the "brunch bill" to allow hard liquor by the drink on Sunday mornings, previously you could not get a drink until 1 on Sundays.

If you want goofy liquor laws, head to our neighbors in the great white north.  People get the idea from the old gangster movies that Canada is/was this great domain of liquor libertarianism.  Not so.  Actually Canada had prohibition longer and harder than the USA, just not on exports, and still today liquor retailing is very inefficient and tightly controled.  Ontario has this thing called "The Beer Store" which is the only place in town to buy beer.

[Brandon]

If you want goofy liquor laws, head to our neighbors in the great white north.  People get the idea from the old gangster movies that Canada is/was this great domain of liquor libertarianism.  Not so.  Actually Canada had prohibition longer and harder than the USA, just not on exports, and still today liquor retailing is very inefficient and tightly controled.  Ontario has this thing called "The Beer Store" which is the only place in town to buy beer.

Which is one reason that Detroit became the main port of entry for liquor into the US during Prohibition.  Much of it was either brought over from Windsor on boats during the summer or carted across the ice during the winter.  From there, it was distributed across the US.

[LM117]

WV recently passed the "brunch bill" to allow hard liquor by the drink on Sunday mornings, previously you could not get a drink until 1 on Sundays.

North Carolina recently passed a similar brunch bill as well, only it covers anything that has alcohol in it. Before, alcohol could not be sold before 12 on Sundays. Now, the brunch bill allows sales to begin as early as 10. However, the law stipulates that a city or county must pass an ordinance to approve of the early Sunday sales before stores could sell alcohol early.

In other words, one city or county could allow early sales, but the next city or county over could choose not to allow early Sunday sales, at which point the 12 o'clock limit is still in effect and localities that were previously "dry" (like Pikeville) remain dry unless they adopt an ordinance changing it

[thenetwork]

You could write a novel about the Alcohol Laws in Utah, past and present.   Up until several years ago, if you wanted to drink in a bar, you had to purchase a "membership" co-signed by a "sponsor" from the establishment. 

That law finally fell by the wayside, but there are still a wonky law that says you must be at a table or at the bar to purchase alcohol (you cannot walk around with booze in your hand, it must be brought to you) and that you must have some sort of food with your alcohol at all times.   (I think those are the specific rules, correct me if I'm wrong).

I think it's also a recent law that C-stores, grocers, etc..., can now sell at least beer.

[froggie]

The argument against Sunday sales had long shifted from religious reasons to small liquor store owners who feared being run out of business by larger competitors.

Given that Minnesota also leaves regulation to the local municipalities, I feel like the small owners are barking up the wrong tree.

Here's a story out of Mississippi, which I can basically boil down into the Catholics (who love their liquor) versus the Southern Baptists (who vocally oppose liquor but are also serious hypocrites).  Pearl River County, MS was a dry county as late as 2008...I don't know if it still is, as I left Stennis Space Center that year.  However, beer and wine could be sold within the incorporated cities of Picayune and Poplarville.

After Katrina hit, Pearl River County absorbed a lot of "new citizens" from Louisiana...mainly St. Bernard and Plaquimines Parishes, most of whom became permanent residents.  Of course, Louisianans, with their predominantly Catholic background, like their fairly lax alcohol sales laws, and it came to heads in Pearl River County in the 2006-2007 timeframe.  They were successful in bringing the issue to a referendum (required under Mississippi law), but the referendum just barely failed (by less than 2% IIRC).  I recall many Pearl River County natives actively opposing the referendum and citing their Baptist anti-alcohol beliefs, even though I know for a fact that many of these people would drink privately at home, going as far as to drive to Slidell or Hancock County to buy booze.  I do not know if there have been any attempts to change the "dry county" status since then.

[Brandon]

You could write a novel about the Alcohol Laws in Utah, past and present.   Up until several years ago, if you wanted to drink in a bar, you had to purchase a "membership" co-signed by a "sponsor" from the establishment. 

It was more like "purchase" than actually buying a "membership".  IIRC, they'd give it out for free, and the "sponsor" was typically the owner or manager.