Unique, Odd, or Interesting Signs aka The good, the bad, and the ugly

[roadfro]

Ironic that for a supposedly "all-metric" highway, I don't believe I ever saw any speed limit/advisory signs with km-only or dual km/MPH listings, at least from I-10 down to just south of Tubac, this spring.

If I recall correctly, speed limits were kept in MPH for law enforcement reasons. Note that the MUTCD no longer has designs for signs in metric (eliminated in the 2009 version).

[US 89]

Ironic that for a supposedly "all-metric" highway, I don't believe I ever saw any speed limit/advisory signs with km-only or dual km/MPH listings, at least from I-10 down to just south of Tubac, this spring.

If I recall correctly, speed limits were kept in MPH for law enforcement reasons. Note that the MUTCD no longer has designs for signs in metric (eliminated in the 2009 version).

Most American drivers don't have a feel for km/h speeds. Also, some cars don't even have the metric speeds on the speedometer. If you got pulled over, you could say "how was I supposed to know how fast 120 km/h is?"

[jakeroot]

The primary issue, with dual-posted limits, is that metric and imperial limits don't line up exactly. They are sometimes off by quite a lot.

- 55 MPH = 88.5 km/h (posting 90 km/h would create a new, higher, limit (55.9 MPH))
- 60 MPH = 96.5 km/h (posting 100 km/h would create a new, higher, limit (62.1 MPH))

There are some that are incredibly close, like 120 km/h and 75 MPH, or 40 km/h and 25 MPH, but none are exact, so far as I know. Just seems to be another Montanabahn-level legal blunder waiting to happen.

[tckma]

The primary issue, with dual-posted limits, is that metric and imperial limits don't line up exactly. They are sometimes off by quite a lot.

- 55 MPH = 88.5 km/h (posting 90 km/h would create a new, higher, limit (55.9 MPH))
- 60 MPH = 96.5 km/h (posting 100 km/h would create a new, higher, limit (62.1 MPH))

There are some that are incredibly close, like 120 km/h and 75 MPH, or 40 km/h and 25 MPH, but none are exact, so far as I know. Just seems to be another Montanabahn-level legal blunder waiting to happen.

Posting 65 MPH as 100 km/h (62.1 MPH) seems reasonable -- it's a slightly lower limit.  In Canada, especially just after crossing the border, I very often saw dual-posted limits: "Maximum 100 km/h 62 MPH."  The .1 gets dropped off. 

I guess I don't really see the issue.  Why not post as follows:

55 MPH -- 88 km/h (I've actually seen this in some photos from the 70s when metrification was last seriously considered in the US)
60 MPH -- 96 km/h.

You drop that half kilometer per hour.  So what?

[hotdogPi]

The primary issue, with dual-posted limits, is that metric and imperial limits don't line up exactly. They are sometimes off by quite a lot.

- 55 MPH = 88.5 km/h (posting 90 km/h would create a new, higher, limit (55.9 MPH))
- 60 MPH = 96.5 km/h (posting 100 km/h would create a new, higher, limit (62.1 MPH))

There are some that are incredibly close, like 120 km/h and 75 MPH, or 40 km/h and 25 MPH, but none are exact, so far as I know. Just seems to be another Montanabahn-level legal blunder waiting to happen.

Posting 65 MPH as 100 km/h (62.1 MPH) seems reasonable -- it's a slightly lower limit.  In Canada, especially just after crossing the border, I very often saw dual-posted limits: "Maximum 100 km/h 62 MPH."  The .1 gets dropped off. 

I guess I don't really see the issue.  Why not post as follows:

55 MPH -- 88 km/h (I've actually seen this in some photos from the 70s when metrification was last seriously considered in the US)
60 MPH -- 96 km/h.

You drop that half kilometer per hour.  So what?

It's unusual to see speed limits that aren't multiples of 5.

[jbnv]

It's unusual to see speed limits that aren't multiples of 5.

Unusual yes, but not unwarranted for law enforcement.

[formulanone]

The primary issue, with dual-posted limits, is that metric and imperial limits don't line up exactly. They are sometimes off by quite a lot.

- 55 MPH = 88.5 km/h (posting 90 km/h would create a new, higher, limit (55.9 MPH))
- 60 MPH = 96.5 km/h (posting 100 km/h would create a new, higher, limit (62.1 MPH))

There are some that are incredibly close, like 120 km/h and 75 MPH, or 40 km/h and 25 MPH, but none are exact, so far as I know. Just seems to be another Montanabahn-level legal blunder waiting to happen.

Posting 65 MPH as 100 km/h (62.1 MPH) seems reasonable -- it's a slightly lower limit.  In Canada, especially just after crossing the border, I very often saw dual-posted limits: "Maximum 100 km/h 62 MPH."  The .1 gets dropped off. 

I guess I don't really see the issue.  Why not post as follows:

55 MPH -- 88 km/h (I've actually seen this in some photos from the 70s when metrification was last seriously considered in the US)
60 MPH -- 96 km/h.

You drop that half kilometer per hour.  So what?

Back in the day, the US had 105km/h for 65mph; close enough.

I-95  Palm Beach, Fla, June 1988 by Averill Hecht, on Flickr

60 km/h was used for 40mph, though it equates to nearly 64, it probably should have been 65. But maybe that was too close for comfort to the state speed limit of 65mph, since that sign was just off another route with a 65 miles per hour limit.

It's unusual to see speed limits that aren't multiples of 5.

The problem is also that speedometers are hard to read if they're not multiples of 5 or 10. Usually, 5s are used for MPH, and 10s for KM/H.

Some have finer markings, others do not.

[tckma]

It's unusual to see speed limits that aren't multiples of 5.

Unusual, yes, but not unheard of.  I saw this video posted on another thread, or maybe even in this thread, on this very forum:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWPymwxAtc0

"...but that's a suggested speed sign, not a regulatory speed sign."

OK, then how about this?

The problem is also that speedometers are hard to read if they're not multiples of 5 or 10. Usually, 5s are used for MPH, and 10s for KM/H.

Some have finer markings, others do not.

That's unlikely to hold up in court.  If your speedometer doesn't have finer markings, use the closest marking you have that is lower than the speed limit just to ensure you don't exceed the limit.

[vdeane]

Ironic that for a supposedly "all-metric" highway, I don't believe I ever saw any speed limit/advisory signs with km-only or dual km/MPH listings, at least from I-10 down to just south of Tubac, this spring.

If I recall correctly, speed limits were kept in MPH for law enforcement reasons. Note that the MUTCD no longer has designs for signs in metric (eliminated in the 2009 version).

Most American drivers don't have a feel for km/h speeds. Also, some cars don't even have the metric speeds on the speedometer. If you got pulled over, you could say "how was I supposed to know how fast 120 km/h is?"

That would be a good argument for mandating that all cars have some from of metric info for the speedometer.  My Civic has a digital speedometer that can switch with the push of a button, so I don't need to convert anything - it's perfectly seamless.

[jeffandnicole]

OK, then how about this?

That's probably on private property and isn't legal.

Also, per the MUTCD:

Section 2B.13 Speed Limit Sign (R2-1)

Standard:

02 The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

[SectorZ]

Ironic that for a supposedly "all-metric" highway, I don't believe I ever saw any speed limit/advisory signs with km-only or dual km/MPH listings, at least from I-10 down to just south of Tubac, this spring.

If I recall correctly, speed limits were kept in MPH for law enforcement reasons. Note that the MUTCD no longer has designs for signs in metric (eliminated in the 2009 version).

Most American drivers don't have a feel for km/h speeds. Also, some cars don't even have the metric speeds on the speedometer. If you got pulled over, you could say "how was I supposed to know how fast 120 km/h is?"

That would be a good argument for mandating that all cars have some from of metric info for the speedometer.  My Civic has a digital speedometer that can switch with the push of a button, so I don't need to convert anything - it's perfectly seamless.

My (2016) Mazda3 has an analog speedometer, but the GPS also tells me the speed limit of most major roads. Driving into Canada, it still tells me the speed limit in MPH, but gets it correct from the converted KPH (for example, the 100 KPH limit is noted as a 62 MPH speed limit on it).

[cl94]

Don't all cars sold in the US have dual US/metric speedometers? I have never driven a car that didn't have km/h listed. The one car I drove with a digital speedometer (until some $&*#$#@#$ totaled it because they weren't paying attention) changed with a button push.

[cjk374]

Don't all cars sold in the US have dual US/metric speedometers? I have never driven a car that didn't have km/h listed. The one car I drove with a digital speedometer (until some $&*#$#@#$ totaled it because they weren't paying attention) changed with a button push.

They had dual read speedometers at least in the early 80s, when my Grand Prix was built (83).

[jakeroot]

Don't all cars sold in the US have dual US/metric speedometers? I have never driven a car that didn't have km/h listed. The one car I drove with a digital speedometer (until some $&*#$#@#$ totaled it because they weren't paying attention) changed with a button push.

They had dual read speedometers at least in the early 80s, when my Grand Prix was built (83).

I've never seen a car without dual-read speedometers in my time doing valet. I've utilised thousands of speedometers over the years, and every single one of them had either a gauge-within-a-gauge, or a setting that changed the read-out from MPH to km/h.

Every now and then, I'll talk to somebody who thinks they have an MPH-only gauge, but invariably, there's a setting inside the car to change the analog gauge so that the needle points to km/h values instead of MPH values (common in GM vehicles). There might be older cars (seriously old) without the option, but not any recent ones.

[US 89]

OK, then how about this?

That's probably on private property and isn't legal.

Also, per the MUTCD:

Section 2B.13 Speed Limit Sign (R2-1)

Standard:

02 The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

What about the 18 mph speed limit signs on Silver Ave in Albuquerque?

[jakeroot]

OK, then how about this?

That's probably on private property and isn't legal.

Also, per the MUTCD:

Section 2B.13 Speed Limit Sign (R2-1)

Standard:

02 The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

What about the 18 mph speed limit signs on Silver Ave in Albuquerque?

According to Section 2B.13, speed limit signs shall display speeds in multiples of 5. Therefore, the signs along Silver Ave are not speed limit signs.

[formulanone]

Don't all cars sold in the US have dual US/metric speedometers? I have never driven a car that didn't have km/h listed. The one car I drove with a digital speedometer (until some $&*#$#@#$ totaled it because they weren't paying attention) changed with a button push.

Everything I've seen from the 1980s to today has both units; and it's probably a few years earlier, since our last metrication attempt was in the 1970s.

As for the feel of speed, you either keep up with the flow of traffic, or do a double-check when driving in another country...it's not too difficult. And the sensation of speed is the same; you're not suddenly tasked with 180 km/h.

[tckma]

Don't all cars sold in the US have dual US/metric speedometers? I have never driven a car that didn't have km/h listed. The one car I drove with a digital speedometer (until some $&*#$#@#$ totaled it because they weren't paying attention) changed with a button push.

Every car I have ever driven or owned since I got my learner's permit in 1994 has at the very least had the km/h equivalents in tiny numbers alongside the big MPH numbers.  When I rented a car on a trip in Canada, it had km/h as the big numbers and MPH as the small numbers.

[7/8]

Here's some signs from the first half of my Orlando trip.

Trapezoidal "ramp ends here" sign on the 402 at Airport Rd in Sarnia, ON.


For some reason I like this "grooved pavement" sign on I-65 in Tennessee. I saw lots of these in Tennessee (and possibly Georgia).


24 mph speed limits all around Opry Mills in Nashville, TN. This photo was taken soon around 10 minutes after the total eclipse.

[hbelkins]

Section 2B.13 Speed Limit Sign (R2-1)

Standard:

02 The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

So the unelected federal bureaucrats are telling local governments what their speed limits are supposed to be? 

Or worse, that no matter what speed limit a governmental body sets, it has to be signed in multiples of 5 (meaning the signed speed limit is incorrect if it's posted at 25 but the local government sets the speed limit at 27.)

[D-Dey65]

Don't all cars sold in the US have dual US/metric speedometers? I have never driven a car that didn't have km/h listed. The one car I drove with a digital speedometer (until some $&*#$#@#$ totaled it because they weren't paying attention) changed with a button push.

Every car I have ever driven or owned since I got my learner's permit in 1994 has at the very least had the km/h equivalents in tiny numbers alongside the big MPH numbers.  When I rented a car on a trip in Canada, it had km/h as the big numbers and MPH as the small numbers.

Makes sense, and I'm old enough to remember when cars only had MPH numbers. How long has Canada been putting km/h numbers on their speedometers?

I know it's OT, but I just had to ask.

[Scott5114]

Section 2B.13 Speed Limit Sign (R2-1)

Standard:

02 The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

So the unelected federal bureaucrats are telling local governments what their speed limits are supposed to be? 

Or worse, that no matter what speed limit a governmental body sets, it has to be signed in multiples of 5 (meaning the signed speed limit is incorrect if it's posted at 25 but the local government sets the speed limit at 27.)

Nah, the smarmy guys in suits who think they're bigshots because they won a popularity contest are telling the scientists how to do their jobs!

           
         
           

[jakeroot]

Section 2B.13 Speed Limit Sign (R2-1)

Standard:

02 The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

So the unelected federal bureaucrats engineers are telling local governments what their speed limits are supposed to be?

FTFY. And yes, because some very basic things ought to be standardised. The FHWA permits a lot of freedom. Let up a bit.

Or worse, that no matter what speed limit a governmental body sets, it has to be signed in multiples of 5 (meaning the signed speed limit is incorrect if it's posted at 25 but the local government sets the speed limit at 27.)

Has this ever happened? Feels a bit like a straw man.

[Brandon]

Section 2B.13 Speed Limit Sign (R2-1)

Standard:

02 The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

So the unelected federal bureaucrats engineers are telling local governments what their speed limits are supposed to be?

FTFY. And yes, because some very basic things ought to be standardised. The FHWA permits a lot of freedom. Let up a bit.

Honestly, I trust the engineers a hell of a lot more than I trust some twit who knows very little and won a popularity contest.

[7/8]

Here's three signs taken at Universal Studios theme park in Orlando today.

Black-on-yellow stop sign (doesn't look MUTCD-compliant to me! )


US 480, and some California cities (did this highway ever exist?). Also, why isn't it a cutout?


Minion Crossing (bonus points for running some over )