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Things that irk you about roads the most

Started by J Route Z, December 19, 2016, 02:01:37 AM

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J Route Z

What bothers you about roads and highways the most? Aside from bad drivers, some physical aspects. One example for me is when construction crews leave up road work signs for years and never take them down. I mean how could these professionals forget they are still up? Another example would be perhaps the most common issue, potholes. It's about this time of the year when we will see more of these on the roads.


Scott5114

Mine is when a sign is fabricated with obvious disregard for typical design standards like proper centering, correct margin widths, and consistent spacing between lines. These are things that are free and take only a few minutes worth of attention to check. But the end product will be there for years and years.

A related issue is inconsistent design from panel to panel within a highway system. Drive around Missouri enough and you'll get a feel for what a MoDOT sign looks like. Drive around Kansas and you'll definitely get a feel for what a KDOT sign looks like. Drive around Oklahoma or New Mexico, and you'll get a different set of design cues at every junction.
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jeffandnicole

When they repaint lines after repaving, and they're not where they used to be.  Maybe an acceleration lane is shortened, or the natural curve is gone and something sharper or more jagged is in its place.  On a project near me, the line crew inexplicitly never painted the dashed passing line down the middle of a 2 lane ramp.  It now appears as a 24' wide single lane ramp...which still features 2 lanes turning onto it.

Brian556

For me, its bad signage, Especially signs that should be there, but aren't.

sparker

Quote from: Brian556 on December 19, 2016, 09:18:56 AM
For me, its bad signage, Especially signs that should be there, but aren't.

A subject that's been covered in several SW threads, but deserves reiteration here:  the deteriorating lack of signage along state highways in CA -- especially on relinquished urban roads where continuation signage is specifically mandated.  This is not only with simple reassurance signage, but has spread to junctions, where the trailblazers necessary to ensure route continuation have somehow vanished (I'm looking at you, CA 84 & CA 238 in Fremont!).  The 12 districts seem to pay varying attention to the issue; some sort of statewide criteria need to be established (or re-established; this wasn't a problem 30+ years ago!).

roadman

Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2016, 06:15:03 AM
When they repaint lines after repaving, and they're not where they used to be.  Maybe an acceleration lane is shortened, or the natural curve is gone and something sharper or more jagged is in its place.  On a project near me, the line crew inexplicitly never painted the dashed passing line down the middle of a 2 lane ramp.  It now appears as a 24' wide single lane ramp...which still features 2 lanes turning onto it.

My pet marking peeve is related to this  - the fact that when they resurface a freeway, they almost NEVER resurface the bridge decks as well.  The result is that the old markings on the bridges never line up with the new markings on the adjacent roadway.
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Rothman

Quote from: roadman on December 19, 2016, 03:01:55 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 19, 2016, 06:15:03 AM
When they repaint lines after repaving, and they're not where they used to be.  Maybe an acceleration lane is shortened, or the natural curve is gone and something sharper or more jagged is in its place.  On a project near me, the line crew inexplicitly never painted the dashed passing line down the middle of a 2 lane ramp.  It now appears as a 24' wide single lane ramp...which still features 2 lanes turning onto it.

My pet marking peeve is related to this  - the fact that when they resurface a freeway, they almost NEVER resurface the bridge decks as well.  The result is that the old markings on the bridges never line up with the new markings on the adjacent roadway.

Of course not.  Pavement work and bridge work are totally different.  In fact, at NYSDOT, you'll hear people divide our capital projects into two sets: bridge and pavement projects.  The different nature of rehabbing bridge decks compared to simple paving jobs will always result in the situation you describe.  Don't think it can realistically be avoided given the engineering models that govern the basic set up of a capital program (i.e., if you need to do a paving job near a bridge that's in okay shape, there's no compelling argument to do the work on the bridge when that money could be better spent elsewhere).

(personal opinion emphasized).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kphoger

The wrong warning sign installed.  A very common one is W1-2 with a 25-mph advisory plaque; should be a W1-1 instead.  Another common one is W4-2 (warning) instead of R3-7 (regulatory).

My other big pet peeve is exit-only lanes that just have regular dashed lines next to them instead of either dotted or solid.
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Quote from: sparker on December 19, 2016, 02:55:54 PM
Quote from: Brian556 on December 19, 2016, 09:18:56 AM
For me, its bad signage, Especially signs that should be there, but aren't.

A subject that's been covered in several SW threads, but deserves reiteration here:  the deteriorating lack of signage along state highways in CA -- especially on relinquished urban roads where continuation signage is specifically mandated.  This is not only with simple reassurance signage, but has spread to junctions, where the trailblazers necessary to ensure route continuation have somehow vanished (I'm looking at you, CA 84 & CA 238 in Fremont!).  The 12 districts seem to pay varying attention to the issue; some sort of statewide criteria need to be established (or re-established; this wasn't a problem 30+ years ago!).

Even the Signed County Route program is a mess, although I would say it is far more expected in that sphere of influence.  In the J1 thread I talked a lot about the inconsistencies between individual California counties in regards to signage, pavement, and even how some seem to have their individual grids. 

But in regards to State route signage it certainly is all over the place in California and can be pretty maddening at times.  Lack of continuity is probably my biggest pet peeve of all.  It's even more frustrating when Arizona, Nevada, and even Utah are more up to spec whereas California used to be.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 03:59:39 PMAnother common one is W4-2 (warning) instead of R3-7 (regulatory).

R3-7 itself is one of my bugbears--it is usually impossible to read far enough in advance for smoothly maneuvering into the trap lane (or out of it, as the case may be).  Agencies in snowbird states like Arizona often just use R3-5 for trap lanes, but even an appropriate member of the R3-8 family would be infinitely better than R3-7.

Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 03:59:39 PMMy other big pet peeve is exit-only lanes that just have regular dashed lines next to them instead of either dotted or solid.

Like here?  Weaving lanes from one interchange to the next are an uncomfortable gray area.
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MNHighwayMan

#10
This one's pretty specific, and it irks me especially because I dealt with it today. Iowa seems not to bother with putting trailblazer markers for certain routes (US-6, specifically) at the top of off-ramps at the end of Interstate concurrencies. Like this one. You have to go left to continue on US-6 West but there's no sign at the top of the ramp pointing you that way.

Edit: I guess I could generalize this complaint into any place where there's insufficient signage to guide one along a specific route.

jwolfer

When a BGS has a panel with a new destiation and the size of the font is different than the rest of the sign.

Example going SB out of Jacksonville on i95 at CR 210 exit the supplemtary guide sign used to say 'Dog Track' which is closed so they put a cover up for the new development of 'Nocatee'..  Different sizeat least its same font.. Ill get a pic next time I'm out that way

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jakeroot

#12
New traffic signals with too much control. WSDOT recently installed several new signals where stop signs were the former control (with one of the roads having priority w/ no stop sign). The new left turns are protected only maneuvers. The problem from a logistical standpoint is that it's harder to go from fully protected to protected/permissive, should the protected signals become unnecessary (they already have -- bunch of traffic waiting for a green light, despite no oncoming traffic). Signal "upgrades" should always go in stages, from fully permissive, to protected/permissive, to fully protected, never straight from fully permissive to fully protected. WSDOT very seldom changes signals from fully protected to protected/permissive, so (for example) suggesting the installation of an FYA where there is presently a protected-only left turn is very difficult. Basic protocol generally suggests against reducing control. The main issue is that full control may never have been necessary to begin with, but it's hard to convince them of that without being a PE or a fellow DOT employee.

It also comes down to a lack of creativity on the part of the DOT. They generally signalize every intersection the same way, be it a side road with 25 mph limits, or a highway with 65 mph limits: fully protected left turns. Of the four major agencies on the west coast, the BCMOT is the only one that regularly uses pro/per signals (like the rest of Canada). WSDOT, ODOT, and CalTrans almost always use protected only signals at every single intersection, regardless of whether or not it's necessary. I get that, at one time, it may have been standard protocol to install a three-head fully protected signal for each left turn maneuver. But times have changed, and there aren't any studies showing fully protected signals to be safer (drivers perform less risky manuevers with pro/per left turns). These agencies need to step up their creativity, and start using new signal phasing. Start using FYAs more often, using lagging phasing, etc.

Also, when an agency banishes permissive turns due to 40/45+ mph speed limit or three+ oncoming lanes.

epzik8

Intersections without advance warning signs for the cross street, like we have all over Maryland.
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Brandon

Actuated signals uncoordinated with any of the other actuated signals surrounding them by an idiot of a DOT.  It is most annoying to have the next signal turn red as soon as you get up to it after the signal you were at turns green.  And then for it to happen at the next signal, the next signal, and the next signal.
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mvak36

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on December 19, 2016, 09:47:04 PM
This one's pretty specific, and it irks me especially because I dealt with it today. Iowa seems not to bother with putting trailblazer markers for certain routes (US-6, specifically) at the top of off-ramps at the end of Interstate concurrencies. Like this one. You have to go left to continue on US-6 West but there's no sign at the top of the ramp pointing you that way.

Edit: I guess I could generalize this complaint into any place where there's insufficient signage to guide one along a specific route.

Iowa is okay compared to Arkansas. They don't usually sign their US routes on concurrencies with interstates (at least they didn't last time I went).
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roadman

Quote from: Rothman on December 19, 2016, 03:06:33 PM
Of course not.  Pavement work and bridge work are totally different.  In fact, at NYSDOT, you'll hear people divide our capital projects into two sets: bridge and pavement projects.  The different nature of rehabbing bridge decks compared to simple paving jobs will always result in the situation you describe.  Don't think it can realistically be avoided given the engineering models that govern the basic set up of a capital program (i.e., if you need to do a paving job near a bridge that's in okay shape, there's no compelling argument to do the work on the bridge when that money could be better spent elsewhere).

(personal opinion emphasized).
Yes, I do understand why pavement and bridge work are usually done separately.  My peeve is simply with the fact that, when they resurface, they can never seem to get the markings on the new pavement to at least attempt to line up with the markings on the old bridges.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

paulthemapguy

Traffic signals with a weak presence, so you hardly notice them.  If one person fails to notice a red light, that's a recipe for a crash.  This includes:

-A lack of overhead signal heads (i.e. all are post-mounted)
-A lack of signal backplates
-Any 8-inch sections.  The old-timey feel of 12-8-8s is nice, but practicality is more important.
-Signals strung up on wires instead of mast arms.  That's right.  That's basically every signal in the eastern time zone.  Mast arms have a stronger presence and are easier to foresee from an earlier distance imo.
-Any signal with fewer than two indications for a particular movement.

In short, I have a disdain for any signal that fails to meet Illinois DOT's basic standards (except doghouses are ok).

One time, I was driving on US35 in western Ohio and nearly blew right through a red light, because I didn't notice that the signal WAS THERE.  It was a bunch of cable-mounted 8-inch signals, go figure.  (it may have been this signal https://goo.gl/maps/FEFRXZFtHwT2 )
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JMAN_WiS&S

Two things related to wisconsin traffic signals. Straight thru up arrows (green) and when a left turn signal and thru signal are mounted together on the same pedistal mast, one on each side. They appear too close together. I dislike straight arrows because the local dot office has switched all straight arrows to solid balls I'm the Eau claire area, so it bothers me when I see others havent.
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jakeroot

Quote from: paulthemapguy on December 20, 2016, 12:56:14 PM
-Any 8-inch sections.  The old-timey feel of 12-8-8s is nice, but practicality is more important.

Ehh, I sort of agree. But not entirely. There are situations where 8-inch signals (even arrows and red balls) are fine, such as:

- near-side signals
- sideways eye-level signals at ramp meters
- secondary signals on the mast
- bike signals

Here's an example of how Vancouver uses 8-inch (200 mm) signal heads. 8-inch arrows and red orbs are ubiquitous all across the province:



Here's that 8-inch arrow up close. As you can plainly see, 8-inches is plenty.


amroad17

Incorrect mileage signs--especially when the numbers are 5 or more miles off.
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jakeroot

Quote from: amroad17 on December 20, 2016, 03:25:46 PM
Incorrect mileage signs--especially when the numbers are 5 or more miles off.

I'd imagine that this irks you later on, right?

hbelkins

Reduced speed limits in work zones that are maintained even when there are no workers present or no lane shifts/narrowing/other abnormal situations.

For instance -- Kentucky is getting ready to do a pavement rehab on I-64 between Midway and Frankfort. This is the original 1971 concrete pavement that was diamond grinded (diamond ground?) about 15 years ago, so I'd imagine a breaking-and-seating (rubbleizing) project is going to be done. A 55 mph speed limit is posted but obviously no paving can start until the blacktop plants open back up in the spring. As it is now, this is just one big seven-mile-long speedtrap.

Also, Virginia's ban on radar detectors and the ridiculous "80 mph is reckless driving, period" law.


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UCFKnights

Quote from: kphoger on December 19, 2016, 03:59:39 PM
My other big pet peeve is exit-only lanes that just have regular dashed lines next to them instead of either dotted or solid.
Thats a big one for me as well. Also, Orlando recently started installing dashed lines at the end of lanes when they're expected to merge. I find that to be extremely confusing and dangerous and if there wasn't nobody in the other lane, I'd have been driven onto the shoulder along with many others I've seen on the road not realizing this bad practice. Dashed lines on highways should exclusively mean the lane is temporary/exit only. If its a weaving lane, its still exit only and should be dashed.

Other things on my list, kind of in order:
2) Protected signals when permissive-protected will functionally work (even if traffic is too busy, give me the permissive version so I can at least try in case it happpens to not be too busy)
3) Signals hung on a url=https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5976117,-81.2616518,3a,75y,200.78h,77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSz3oa2hRyu2ItgihVSWA_A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656]diagonal across the road[/url]. I find them very difficult to see. The only thing worse is signals hung in an X format over the road. I cannot figure out why anyone would use an X format for hanging signals. Makes no sense at all.
4) Pedestrian signals without the "egg crate" sun shade so you can actually see them (the one behind it has it, wtf non matched pedestrian signals on the same crosswalk)
5) Unequally spaced signals I don't think the maps picture does it justice but the left turn signal is higher then the other 3 that are equal height, and is waayy too close to the doghouse which are clearly not centered on the lanes at all. Signals should either be equally spaced or aligned to the roadway lanes. Heights should always be either equal or matching the mounting poll, not random.
6) Missing turn lanes. Outside of downtowns, before a signal or other traffic control device beyond a 2 way stop sign is installed, I think both left and right turn lanes must be installed to attempt to alleviate the situation.
7) Missing/backwards reflectors. I hate how reflectors never get any maintenance until repaving, EVER. I never understood why they seem to throw thousands of reflectors out during every construction project but replacing one that gets knocked loose on a finished road is unheard of.
8) Signals that are flat out configured wrong. There is no reason for this signal to have a separate left turn phase from the right turn phase. Infact, the right turn should have the 5 signal head and be programmed to turn green with the left phase of the cross street. Also my area is filled with all red pedestrian cross phases (especially during school hours) that only give the walk signal to the longer crossing of the major road and not to the crossing of minor streets, even though no vehicular movement in the intersection is permitted at all.
9) Intersections where the peak of the road hasn't been smoothed out, so if you go straight over the road on the minor cross street your car bounces heavily. Likewise, driveway entrances where the road wasn't correctly sloped so we have to drive down through a really low drain and need to go super slow while trying to get off the roadway. The road should be built up and sloped to allow water to go to the gutter, not run the gutter through the middle of the entrance
10) Mismatched mast signal arms at the same intersection, without even an attempt to match anything up. This intersection has a brown mast arm, a black one, and an unpainted one. 3 different "eras" of mast arm designs. Different heights, different mount points. I get that they want to install the most current "best" design without replacing everything but adapt it to at least be compatible with whats there. At least paint them all the same color or something (this intersection was finally recently painted all black but sat like this for more years then I can count)

1995hoo

#24
Four things that are high on my list:

(1) Small regulatory signs placed high up next to the traffic light on the far side of the intersection such that they're extremely hard to see at night. (Example: Small white "No Turn on Red" sign not duplicated on the near side of the intersection.) Obviously the size of the intersection makes a big difference here.

(2) Signs in advance of intersections placed on the wrong side of the street for the traffic to which they apply. (Example: Near where we live there's a road with three lanes per side. As you approach one of the intersections, the left lane becomes left-turn only and there are six lanes going that way–two left turn, two straight, two right turn. The only advance sign warning of that is located off the right side of the road. It also doesn't say "Left Lane Must Turn Left" and instead has a diagram of the six lanes at the traffic light. The sign needs to be on the left where people in that lane are more likely to see it! EVERY time we go through there, someone who was in the far left lane is trying to shove to the right out of the turn lane in order to go straight.)

(3) When they restripe a road but they don't repair the ruts left in the pavement by the old striping they removed. It feels like invariably the ruts from the old skip lines wind up underneath your tires.

(4) Overhead traffic lights placed on the near side of the intersection too close to the stop bar. I suppose this would alleviate item (1), in theory, but in practice it doesn't because if you're the first car waiting on line, often you can't see the lights unless you bend down, and if you stop too far back of the stop bar, depending on the intersection and which lane you're in you may not trigger the light to change. I HATE sitting there hunched down trying to see the light!
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