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Redneck Roundabout

Started by US71, March 21, 2017, 10:16:40 PM

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US71

Fayetteville, Arkansas announced today they are removing the (as I dubbed it) Redneck Roundabout they built back in January and converting the intersection back to a 4-Way Stop.

http://5newsonline.com/2017/01/26/spring-street-school-avenue-intersection-transforming-into-mini-roundabout/

http://www.nwahomepage.com/news/fox-24/mini-roundabouts-to-be-removed-from-downtown-fayetteville-street/677029345


Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast


compdude787

Not surprising. Mini roundabouts as used in the UK are probably not going to work well in the US without a significant increase in driver training. I wonder how many people just drove straight over it.

LM117

“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Great Lakes Roads

Learn that mistake from Carmel when they put in a mini-roundabout...

jeffandnicole

Unfortunately, we have no idea what the mistakes are since the news story never elaborated on them.

silverback1065

#5
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on March 22, 2017, 07:45:19 AM
Learn that mistake from Carmel when they put in a mini-roundabout...

i don't think that was ever considered permanent.  i believe it was just a test, which proved mini roundabouts wouldn't work.  :-D  mini roundabouts would work in the US, if they used concrete curb and something was put in the island.

this is what it used to look like https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9738608,-86.1646927,3a,75y,355.08h,73.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1FRIMt1TMMx-LlJNPkVRtw!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

switch to the most recent to see what it looks like today.  it wasn't designed well, it is signed like a 4way stop, but you can see the rubbed away striping for a roundabout.

US71

Quote from: compdude787 on March 22, 2017, 12:53:41 AM
Not surprising. Mini roundabouts as used in the UK are probably not going to work well in the US without a significant increase in driver training. I wonder how many people just drove straight over it.
The day I was there, no one drove straight over it, but cars pulling trailers had a hard time negotiating the intersection
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Henry

So soon? This was certainly doomed from the start.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

kphoger

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2017, 07:59:00 AM
mini roundabouts would work in the US, if they used concrete curb and something was put in the island.

But then it wouldn't be a mini-roundabout.  The term "traversable islands" is right there in Section 1.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

silverback1065

Quote from: kphoger on March 22, 2017, 12:15:18 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2017, 07:59:00 AM
mini roundabouts would work in the US, if they used concrete curb and something was put in the island.

But then it wouldn't be a mini-roundabout.  The term "traversable islands" is right there in Section 1.
Whatever all I'm saying is putting something that will discourage driving straight through. Paint can't do that, concrete can.

kphoger

But it defeats the purpose.  The mountable island is to allow large vehicles to travel through the intersection.  If you put a physical barrier in the middle, then you have to expand the intersection anyway, so there's no advantage left.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jakeroot

#11
Dimondale, MI's mini roundabout has been working well for over 15 years, if the studies following its construction are to be believed.


Stephane Dumas

Quote from: jakeroot on March 22, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
Dimondale, MI's mini roundabout has been working well for over 15 years, if the studies following its construction are to be believed.



Interesting to see they use the European "keep right" sign in the median.

silverback1065

Must have been a local project no way that would have flown on a state/fed project

jakeroot

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 22, 2017, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 22, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
Dimondale, MI's mini roundabout has been working well for over 15 years, if the studies following its construction are to be believed.

http://www.mini-roundabout.com/images/dimondalemini2.jpg

Interesting to see they use the European "keep right" sign in the median.

The designers were British, and they suggested a lit bollard to notify traffic of the impending circle. Because no such bollard existed in the US, they just imported one from the UK. The "keep left" circle was flipped for the US, but the bollard was otherwise untouched. Nowadays, an MUTCD-compliant bollard has replaced that one, and it has the normal "keep right" sign.

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2017, 08:49:25 PM
Must have been a local project no way that would have flown on a state/fed project

Not sure why you'd say that. It was indeed a city project, but there's always gotta be a first. Most "modern roundabouts" in the US were rogue experiments back in the 90s, using a variety of British and Australian standards (all flipped of course), with widely varying pavement markings and signage. There were no standards, but they proved the viability of a well-designed circular intersection; this perked the ears of the FHWA, and standards were developed. This mini roundabout is no different. The normal, raised island mini roundabout is more common nowadays, but this experiment proved that mini roundabouts were effective when well designed.

silverback1065

Quote from: jakeroot on March 23, 2017, 01:00:01 AM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on March 22, 2017, 08:47:34 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 22, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
Dimondale, MI's mini roundabout has been working well for over 15 years, if the studies following its construction are to be believed.

http://www.mini-roundabout.com/images/dimondalemini2.jpg

Interesting to see they use the European "keep right" sign in the median.

The designers were British, and they suggested a lit bollard to notify traffic of the impending circle. Because no such bollard existed in the US, they just imported one from the UK. The "keep left" circle was flipped for the US, but the bollard was otherwise untouched. Nowadays, an MUTCD-compliant bollard has replaced that one, and it has the normal "keep right" sign.

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 22, 2017, 08:49:25 PM
Must have been a local project no way that would have flown on a state/fed project

Not sure why you'd say that. It was indeed a city project, but there's always gotta be a first. Most "modern roundabouts" in the US were rogue experiments back in the 90s, using a variety of British and Australian standards (all flipped of course), with widely varying pavement markings and signage. There were no standards, but they proved the viability of a well-designed circular intersection; this perked the ears of the FHWA, and standards were developed. This mini roundabout is no different. The normal, raised island mini roundabout is more common nowadays, but this experiment proved that mini roundabouts were effective when well designed.
I said that because they wouldn't have been allowed to put that out there, they would have to follow the mutcd if it's a state or federal project.
A simple keep right sign or median sign would have been fine.

Brandon

Quote from: jakeroot on March 22, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
Dimondale, MI's mini roundabout has been working well for over 15 years, if the studies following its construction are to be believed.



Could be a simple matter of different drivers, different techniques.  Michiganders are taught to turn right to turn left with Michigan Lefts from the time they start driving.  A roundabout, even a mini-roundabout still adheres to that same principle.  Go right to go left.  Really, it functions like a very compressed Michigan Left.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

jakeroot

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 23, 2017, 06:10:14 AM
I said that because they wouldn't have been allowed to put that out there, they would have to follow the mutcd if it's a state or federal project.
A simple keep right sign or median sign would have been fine.

Are you talking about the bollard or the mini roundabout itself? Your original comment implies "mini roundabout" but this comment implies "bollard".

They used the UK bollard to warn drivers of the impending roundabout. There were no other lit warning signs available to the designers so they just used the British version. It was replaced with a proper R4-7 sign a couple years later.

silverback1065

Quote from: jakeroot on March 23, 2017, 01:35:20 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 23, 2017, 06:10:14 AM
I said that because they wouldn't have been allowed to put that out there, they would have to follow the mutcd if it's a state or federal project.
A simple keep right sign or median sign would have been fine.

Are you talking about the bollard or the mini roundabout itself? Your original comment implies "mini roundabout" but this comment implies "bollard".

They used the UK bollard to warn drivers of the impending roundabout. There were no other lit warning signs available to the designers so they just used the British version. It was replaced with a proper R4-7 sign a couple years later.
I was talking about the bollard.

jakeroot

Quote from: Brandon on March 23, 2017, 10:56:39 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on March 22, 2017, 03:46:25 PM
Dimondale, MI's mini roundabout has been working well for over 15 years, if the studies following its construction are to be believed.

http://www.mini-roundabout.com/images/dimondalemini2.jpg

Could be a simple matter of different drivers, different techniques.  Michiganders are taught to turn right to turn left with Michigan Lefts from the time they start driving.  A roundabout, even a mini-roundabout still adheres to that same principle.  Go right to go left.  Really, it functions like a very compressed Michigan Left.

Could be. Michigan lefts, at the least the big ones, are basically compressed signalised hamburger roundabouts. Though there isn't a ton of those style boulevards near Lansing.

Compared to the Lafayette mini, the Dimondale one does appear to be much better designed. Perhaps if the local road crews spent more time thinking about what they were doing, it would have been successful. From the few images I can find, the pavement markings appear to be extremely lackluster.



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