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I-85 overpass collapse northeast of downtown Atlanta

Started by froggie, March 30, 2017, 07:16:06 PM

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NJRoadfan

A similar incident happened in NJ back in 1989 involving garbage under I-78 in Newark. Below is the quote from NYCRoads. Similar situation to the Atlanta area, a very wide and busy highway was effected, but luckily didn't collapse.

QuoteIn the early morning hours of August 7, 1989, a multiple-alarm fire at an illegal garbage dump underneath I-78 near Newark Airport caused heavy damage to the freeway overpass. The source of the fire was a mound of trash 25 feet tall and hundreds of yards long consisting of scrap wood, plastics and paper. The heat of the fire buckled the ten-inch concrete surface and melted steel support beams, and the resulting weight shifts from the highway (which had sagged nearly a foot) damaged bearings and support columns. Hours after the fire was extinguished, smoke continued to seep through the overpass, and the asphalt was still hot enough to push a pen through the surface.

State and local officials immediately closed this 12-lane elevated section of I-78, disrupting a route that more than 90,000 commuters per day had used, and seriously affecting the flows of goods to and from the Newark Airport and Elizabeth Seaport areas. In the ensuing months, as repairs were made to the structure, some lanes of I-78 were reopened to traffic. It was not until the summer of 1990 that all 12 lanes of I-78 were reopened.


plain

I bet the state will get serious about funding MARTA now  :bigass:
Newark born, Richmond bred

jeffandnicole

Quote from: plain on March 31, 2017, 02:21:11 PM
I bet the state will get serious about funding MARTA now  :bigass:

There'll be a lot of screaming and hollering for it, but at the same time they're going to be a lot of people screaming and hollering that roads need to be improved, and better alternative routes need to be built. 

In the end, there's not going to be any significant difference in the way roads or mass transit are funded!

VTGoose

Quote from: Eth on March 31, 2017, 08:38:03 AM
GDOT just confirmed in the last half hour or so (per WSB) that the southbound bridge was also compromised, so that option is out.

So what was compromised that caused the whole section of deck to collapse? Yes, a hot fire can damage steel, but just what failed? Rebar? Expansion joints?
"Get in the fast lane, grandma!  The bingo game is ready to roll!"

intelati49

Quote from: VTGoose on March 31, 2017, 02:44:36 PM
Quote from: Eth on March 31, 2017, 08:38:03 AM
GDOT just confirmed in the last half hour or so (per WSB) that the southbound bridge was also compromised, so that option is out.

So what was compromised that caused the whole section of deck to collapse? Yes, a hot fire can damage steel, but just what failed? Rebar? Expansion joints?


A PE on Reddit hypothesised that it was the prestressing strands for the reinforced concrete.

Which smells right to me. They yielded too much and separated from the supports.

iBallasticwolf2

Only two things are infinite in this world, stupidity, and I-75 construction

bing101


bing101



barcncpt44


A bland smile is like a green light at an intersection, it feels good when you get one, but you forget it the moment you're past it. -Doug Coupland

Duke87

Quote from: Eth on March 31, 2017, 08:38:03 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on March 31, 2017, 12:07:32 AM
Beyond that, the saving grace here is that the southbound structure did not collapse. They'll need to inspect it to confirm but if it's in usable condition it can fit three lanes each way with no shoulders. So we'll probably see two way traffic on that side until the collapsed section can be replaced.
GDOT just confirmed in the last half hour or so (per WSB) that the southbound bridge was also compromised, so that option is out.

Ouch. Welp, then MARTA comes into the spotlight. Still, there's only so much parking at the stations. Those lots will fill up.

Quote from: kkt on March 31, 2017, 12:36:51 PM
Steel is strong, but very vulnerable to heat.  Next time, don't store burnable materials underneath.

It's worth pointing out that PVC has an ignition temperature of 850 degrees Fahrenheit (way too high to be lit by a spark or a stray cigarette butt) and due to its chlorine content actually has fairly good flame retardant properties. Getting that pile of PVC to go up in flames like that would have pretty much required either someone putting effort into torching it on purpose (which it appears may have been what happened, given the arrests), or for there to be adjacent materials of greater flammability that catch fire first.

The decision to store it under the highway therefore does not strike me as reckless or negligent. There was little hazard of an accidental fire.

Nonetheless, I'm sure that now that this has happened people will bend over backwards to stop storing anything remotely flammable under bridges, since no unusual incident can ever happen without measures being taken to prevent a repeat, even if a repeat is already extremely unlikely (c.f. post-9/11 airport security).
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

silverback1065

I've never been to Atlanta so i have a question, what is the purpose of that parallel SR 13 route?  Is it a toll road or something?  Or was it planned as a longer route that got cancelled?

Tom958

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 31, 2017, 09:42:50 PM
I've never been to Atlanta so i have a question, what is the purpose of that parallel SR 13 route?  Is it a toll road or something?  Or was it planned as a longer route that got cancelled?

it's the old pre-Interstate freeway, kept as a collector-distributor road. The northern end was modified to tie into Buford Highway, and the southern end to feed the West Peachtree-Spring Streets one-way pair.

kalvado

Quote from: silverback1065 on March 31, 2017, 07:20:33 PM
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/31/15133232/atlanta-traffic-help-bridge-collapse
If there is a problem with public transportation system - it needs more investment!
If there is a problem with road system - public transportation needs more investment!
If it is business as usual - public transportation system needs more investment!

compdude787

Quote from: kalvado on March 31, 2017, 09:51:06 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 31, 2017, 07:20:33 PM
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/31/15133232/atlanta-traffic-help-bridge-collapse
If there is a problem with public transportation system - it needs more investment!
If there is a problem with road system - public transportation needs more investment!
If it is business as usual - public transportation system needs more investment!

This sort of rhetoric coming from Vox is not surprising, given how leftist they are.

dzlsabe

ILs mantra..the beatings will continue until the morale improves but Expect Delays is good too. Seems some are happy that Chicago/land remains miserable. Status quo is often asinine...Always feel free to use a dictionary as I tend to offend younger or more sensitive viewers. Thanx Pythagoras. :rofl:

silverback1065

#41
I'm not talking politics here.  They make a good point Atlanta has big sprawl problems, and too many people drive. More choices need to be given for transportation there. But as long as it's cheap and easy to drive there it won't happen.


Alex

Quote from: silverback1065 on April 01, 2017, 08:36:09 AM
I'm not talking politics here.  They make a good point Atlanta has big sprawl problems, and too many people drive. More choices need to be given for transportation there. But as long as it's cheap and easy to drive there it won't happen.

FWIW, there were other freeways proposed beside the I-420, I-485  and GA 400 and GA 410 extensions. The :sombrero: Outer Perimeter Highway was proposed in the 1980s. It was scaled back to just the Northern Arc between I-75 and I-85, by 1999. Funding issues first stopped progress, then environmental concerns killed it. I did some research on it when updating Atlanta interstate pages in 2015,  and have a section on it at http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-285_ga.html

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: compdude787 on April 01, 2017, 01:42:32 AM
Quote from: kalvado on March 31, 2017, 09:51:06 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 31, 2017, 07:20:33 PM
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/31/15133232/atlanta-traffic-help-bridge-collapse
If there is a problem with public transportation system - it needs more investment!
If there is a problem with road system - public transportation needs more investment!
If it is business as usual - public transportation system needs more investment!

This sort of rhetoric coming from Vox is not surprising, given how leftist they are.

That's nothing compared to what Beforeitsnews mentionned about the I-85 fire. http://beforeitsnews.com/strange/2017/03/atlanta-i-85-bridge-collapses-after-red-mercury-reported-downtown-2467357.html

Even Mulder and Skully of the X-Files doesn't seem to be interested in this conspiracy theory...

PColumbus73

Looking at some of the pillars after the fire, a lot of them look too damaged to save. I'd imagine all the pillars near the origin of the fire are going to have to be rebuilt.

I agree that a city as big as Atlanta would be better off investing in more mass transit. Imagine the commute in the New York metro area WITHOUT it's rail and transit network.

Chris

Quote from: PColumbus73 on April 01, 2017, 10:38:21 AM
Looking at some of the pillars after the fire, a lot of them look too damaged to save. I'd imagine all the pillars near the origin of the fire are going to have to be rebuilt.

GDOT stated that the support columns will indeed be rebuilt, not just the bridge deck & beams.

There are 12 beams for each section, on each side of the freeway. Times six that means 72 beams need to be manufactured on short notice. With 350 feet of bridge to be replaced, that's ~ 8,400 ft (1.6 mi) of beams.

Quote from: silverback1065 on April 01, 2017, 08:36:09 AMThey make a good point Atlanta has big sprawl problems, and too many people drive.

Is Atlanta really that different from other U.S. cities (not counting the transit legacy cities)? Pretty much all U.S. cities have sprawling suburbs and a high share of people who drive alone. Atlanta has a lower density than most U.S. metro areas, but the transit share is low in most U.S. cities. A few percentage points higher or lower automobile usage doesn't make a city / urban area that different from the rest imho.

bing101

http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/245059796-story

Here is an update for one of the detained facing arson allegations related to I-85.

compdude787

Quote from: Chris on April 01, 2017, 11:21:48 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 01, 2017, 08:36:09 AMThey make a good point Atlanta has big sprawl problems, and too many people drive.

Is Atlanta really that different from other U.S. cities (not counting the transit legacy cities)? Pretty much all U.S. cities have sprawling suburbs and a high share of people who drive alone. Atlanta has a lower density than most U.S. metro areas, but the transit share is low in most U.S. cities. A few percentage points higher or lower automobile usage doesn't make a city / urban area that different from the rest imho.

I don't think so. The only city where there is significant public transit usage is NYC because the city proper is so dense.

barcncpt44

Some good news, I-85 has reopened north of the I-75 split to the Buford Springs Connector exit.  You can take I-85, exit onto the connector, bypass the bridge collapse, and get back onto I-85 north.  It's very narrow so there will be traffic issues, but it's something.  No word on when the southbound connector will reopen, hopefully after the damaged bridge sections are taken down.  http://www.ajc.com/news/local/northbound-how-bypass-the-bridge-collapse-and-return/BrpS2UgrC9MLqUuFx0AGrO/

A bland smile is like a green light at an intersection, it feels good when you get one, but you forget it the moment you're past it. -Doug Coupland

hm insulators

Quote from: Henry on March 31, 2017, 09:28:52 AM
Well, the only thing worse would be if that happened in Los Angeles! It and Atlanta are easily the two worst places to get stuck in traffic, and I once lived in the former city from 1994-2000. I-75, I-20 and I-285 will be an even bigger mess because of the severed connection in I-85.

Of course if you lived in Los Angeles in 1994, you certainly remember the several freeway bridges that collapsed during the earthquake.

Somebody else referenced the overturned tanker truck that caught fire and collapsed a freeway transition at the MacArthur Maze in the Bay Area. I remember that one well. This closure's gonna be a mess for a year.
Remember: If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

I'd rather be a child of the road than a son of a ditch.


At what age do you tell a highway that it's been adopted?



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