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Passing an ambulance?

Started by briantroutman, April 09, 2017, 09:33:07 PM

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briantroutman

A few weeks ago, I was driving from Tampa to Ft. Lauderdale along I-75, and traffic suddenly came to a halt along Alligator Alley. It seems there had been a significant accident with multiple fire trucks and ambulances responding. As traffic crept slowly by the accident scene, an ambulance with its lights and siren activated drove up the inside shoulder. Soon after passing this point, traffic picked up to normal speed. A few miles later, I found myself gaining on...the ambulance! Its emergency lights were still flashing, but the siren was silent. I was going near the speed limit; the ambulance must have been traveling about 5-10 below.

So is it legal to pass an ambulance that's traveling below the speed limit? What would you have done in this situation?


Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

jeffandnicole

I recall my wife saying she...and a whole lot of others...were stuck behind an ambulance on a highway going below the limit. Anytime someone tried passing the ambulance, the driver would swerve out of the lane to prevent the person to pass. It was really odd behavior by that ambulance driver, as if he was intentionally holding up traffic.

wxfree

I'd stay behind it.  If you pass it, that puts it behind you.  You're supposed to yield to an ambulance that's right behind you with its emergency lights on.
I'd like to buy a vowel, Alex.  What is E?

Max Rockatansky

#4
I haven't looked at traffic laws since I lived in Florida but given where it happened I would probably pass given the situation.  Really causing a backup in Alligator Alley is just going to create a bigger traffic hazard with people clogging up behind you than passing the ambulance would illegally in the situation you described.  Really you need to be going 80 MPH plus on a normal day in Alligator Alley not to get run over by traffic, it really is one of the straightest sections of Interstate I've ever been on. 

Then again if one of those rest areas was nearby I'd much rather pull into one and get some candy to wash my hands of the whole ambulance thing and have a clear road.   

SP Cook

A quick look through Florida's laws does not find a specific statute on the subject. 

Around here it is not uncommon for ambulances to drive slower than the maximum safe speed.  Could be the condition of the patient or the fact that an ambulance is usually a top heavy modified van with a fairly small HP engine.  On interstates I have often had ambulances that never catch up to me and have sometimes passed one.  Never thought about it.

kalvado

According to NYS V&T law s.1104.4(c)
QuoteExcept for an authorized emergency vehicle operated  as  a  police   vehicle  or  bicycle,  the  exemptions  herein  granted to an authorized  emergency vehicle shall apply only when audible signals are sounded from  any said vehicle while in motion by bell, horn, siren, electronic device  or exhaust whistle as may be reasonably necessary,
blocking other vehicles from passing while not sounding siren is failure to keep in lane and might be ticketable.
Of course, it may be different in FL

tribar

I would stay behind it just to stay on the safe side. I'd consider getting off at the next exit/rest area and waiting for a few minutes just to wipe the slate clean though.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: tribar on April 10, 2017, 12:00:55 PM
I would stay behind it just to stay on the safe side. I'd consider getting off at the next exit/rest area and waiting for a few minutes just to wipe the slate clean though.

That's the problem, on I-75 in Alligator Alley there is almost no exits between US 27 and FL 29.  There are a couple boat launches in the westbound travel lanes and I believe a single rest area plaza just west of US 27.  Staying behind an ambulance in all of that is going to lead to a ton of cars tailing not you but also the ambulance, hence why I said what I did about passing since ultimately that would probably be the safer decision for everyone.

vdeane

Quote from: wxfree on April 09, 2017, 09:55:29 PM
I'd stay behind it.  If you pass it, that puts it behind you.  You're supposed to yield to an ambulance that's right behind you with its emergency lights on.
Well, if you're going faster than it, you're not impeding it, are you?  Around here, people usually take "yield" in this situation to be "don't be in the way" and not necessarily "pull over", at least on multi-lane roads.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Brandon

Quote from: vdeane on April 10, 2017, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: wxfree on April 09, 2017, 09:55:29 PM
I'd stay behind it.  If you pass it, that puts it behind you.  You're supposed to yield to an ambulance that's right behind you with its emergency lights on.
Well, if you're going faster than it, you're not impeding it, are you?  Around here, people usually take "yield" in this situation to be "don't be in the way" and not necessarily "pull over", at least on multi-lane roads.

The rules on a freeway differ from those on a surface street in regards to an emergency vehicle.  For a freeway, it's merely to move to the right and allow it to pass, as opposed to pull to the right (if practical) and stop.  As for passing one, there is nothing in the Illinois Vehicle Code regarding it.  It's merely to yield to the emergency vehicle.  My guess is that the situation is either rare or unforeseen.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

kalvado

Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2017, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 10, 2017, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: wxfree on April 09, 2017, 09:55:29 PM
I'd stay behind it.  If you pass it, that puts it behind you.  You're supposed to yield to an ambulance that's right behind you with its emergency lights on.
Well, if you're going faster than it, you're not impeding it, are you?  Around here, people usually take "yield" in this situation to be "don't be in the way" and not necessarily "pull over", at least on multi-lane roads.

The rules on a freeway differ from those on a surface street in regards to an emergency vehicle.  For a freeway, it's merely to move to the right and allow it to pass, as opposed to pull to the right (if practical) and stop.  As for passing one, there is nothing in the Illinois Vehicle Code regarding it.  It's merely to yield to the emergency vehicle.  My guess is that the situation is either rare or unforeseen.

I've seen more than a few ambulances going with flashes and siren at speed limit -5 (30-5=25 MPH on that street). Looks like an SOP for ambulances going into that particular hospital. 
I believe part of their training is to follow some weird protocol, as opposed to common sense. E.g. use leftmost (dedicated left turn, in that case) lane   to enter the intersection and turn right - when right shoulder is free and wide enough.

Brandon

Quote from: kalvado on April 10, 2017, 01:58:48 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2017, 01:15:51 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 10, 2017, 12:59:24 PM
Quote from: wxfree on April 09, 2017, 09:55:29 PM
I'd stay behind it.  If you pass it, that puts it behind you.  You're supposed to yield to an ambulance that's right behind you with its emergency lights on.
Well, if you're going faster than it, you're not impeding it, are you?  Around here, people usually take "yield" in this situation to be "don't be in the way" and not necessarily "pull over", at least on multi-lane roads.

The rules on a freeway differ from those on a surface street in regards to an emergency vehicle.  For a freeway, it's merely to move to the right and allow it to pass, as opposed to pull to the right (if practical) and stop.  As for passing one, there is nothing in the Illinois Vehicle Code regarding it.  It's merely to yield to the emergency vehicle.  My guess is that the situation is either rare or unforeseen.

I've seen more than a few ambulances going with flashes and siren at speed limit -5 (30-5=25 MPH on that street). Looks like an SOP for ambulances going into that particular hospital. 
I believe part of their training is to follow some weird protocol, as opposed to common sense. E.g. use leftmost (dedicated left turn, in that case) lane   to enter the intersection and turn right - when right shoulder is free and wide enough.

Agreed about weird protocol rather than common sense.  Here's an ambulance situation for you:

There are two parallel streets where I live, one has two four-way stop signs and a stop sign at the end at a major street.  The other has two traffic signals that can be preempted by emergency vehicles such as ambulances.  Guess which one the Planfield Township Fire Protection District and the Lockport Township Fire Protection District opt to send their ambulances down?  It's the street with the four-way stop signs and the stop sign at the major street!  Never mind that they are in danger every time they pull out on to the major street as the major street does not have a traffic control device there (such as a signal that can be preempted).  Wouldn't it be safer (and possibly faster) for the patient if they used the parallel street with the preempt-able signals?
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

US 81

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 09, 2017, 09:47:38 PM
I recall my wife saying she...and a whole lot of others...were stuck behind an ambulance on a highway going below the limit. Anytime someone tried passing the ambulance, the driver would swerve out of the lane to prevent the person to pass. It was really odd behavior by that ambulance driver, as if he was intentionally holding up traffic.

There are a few different possible scenarios here, one of which could have been that you were about to drive up to an unsecured, unsafe scene. While this sort of traffic-control behavior is properly the role of law enforcement, the medics probably have information you don't. If any police/fire/EMS vehicle is doing this, I recommend following their directions.

formulanone

#14
I have passed two ambulances (with lights flashing) on I-95 in Florida before, although at night and with limited traffic. In both cases, it seemed to be going 55mph, which is below the rate of most drivers' speeds. Neither one was in the left-most lane, it wasn't making much of a fuss by changing lanes, so I presume it's okay to pass under normal conditions.

Alligator Alley would really test my patience, if it wasn't at least going 70.

I did get out of a barrier toll on Florida's Turnpike because an ambulance chose my toll lane; I was waved by and promptly moved aside (saving $10 in those pre-SunPass days).



jeffandnicole

Quote from: US 81 on April 11, 2017, 10:50:55 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 09, 2017, 09:47:38 PM
I recall my wife saying she...and a whole lot of others...were stuck behind an ambulance on a highway going below the limit. Anytime someone tried passing the ambulance, the driver would swerve out of the lane to prevent the person to pass. It was really odd behavior by that ambulance driver, as if he was intentionally holding up traffic.

There are a few different possible scenarios here, one of which could have been that you were about to drive up to an unsecured, unsafe scene. While this sort of traffic-control behavior is properly the role of law enforcement, the medics probably have information you don't. If any police/fire/EMS vehicle is doing this, I recommend following their directions.


The particular highway is 44 miles long; as usual, we take it the entire length.  Nothing happening ahead.  No need to assume stuff. 

kkt

I wonder if there's a governor on the ambulance.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kkt on April 11, 2017, 03:37:38 PM
I wonder if there's a governor on the ambulance.

I'm tenoted to make a Rick Scott about being alone out in the Everglades....

formulanone

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 11, 2017, 03:44:39 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 11, 2017, 03:37:38 PM
I wonder if there's a governor on the ambulance.

I'm tenoted to make a Rick Scott about being alone out in the Everglades....

He'll be okay, there's a used Bentley to drive around.

US 81

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 11, 2017, 02:41:47 PM
Quote from: US 81 on April 11, 2017, 10:50:55 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 09, 2017, 09:47:38 PM
I recall my wife saying she...and a whole lot of others...were stuck behind an ambulance on a highway going below the limit. Anytime someone tried passing the ambulance, the driver would swerve out of the lane to prevent the person to pass. It was really odd behavior by that ambulance driver, as if he was intentionally holding up traffic.

There are a few different possible scenarios here, one of which could have been that you were about to drive up to an unsecured, unsafe scene. While this sort of traffic-control behavior is properly the role of law enforcement, the medics probably have information you don't. If any police/fire/EMS vehicle is doing this, I recommend following their directions.


The particular highway is 44 miles long; as usual, we take it the entire length.  Nothing happening ahead.  No need to assume stuff.

It's straight as an arrow and all downhill and you could see all 44 miles of it to know nothing was happening ahead? Great, but I still stand by my advice.

kalvado

Somewhat similar issue: I just seen an oversize load truck escorted by 2 state troopers, in addition to usual escort vehicles. Troopers had all their flashers on, but no sirens - which makes passing them perfectly legal in NY. I assume they needed all that to use 2 lanes, so leftmost of 3 lanes would still be open. And my impression they were going quite slowly (they were on opposite side of the interstate, so I couldn't see details)
SO.. would you think it is OK to pass? As far as I understand legal status of police and ambulance is pretty much the same.

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SP Cook

Dangerous not to.  Certainly you should pass.

A few weeks ago, heading to work.  Road is over-capacity anyway, and thus always slow.  Traffic was at a full stop.  Almost rear ended, and eventually there was a major wreck.  Why?  Because moron county cop decided to provide a "police escort" (out of jurisdiction)  to a 45 MPH school bus carrying the local HS girls team to a 10 AM state tournament game and at least two further morons refused to pass (it is a six lane interstate, the bus was in the slow lane).

Idiot.

And he is allowed to carry a gun.  He should not be allowed to carry a pack of gum.

jeffandnicole

In SC yesterday on 95, I noticed an ambulance slowly gaining on me.  The driver eventually passed me.

I was going 81 mph at the time!

I have never seen an ambulance going so fast. Relative to my speed, the driver was probably going no more than 85 mph. As it passed me, I looked over. The driver just looked like she was out for a normal drive like every other traveler on the road.

jakeroot

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 22, 2017, 09:23:11 PM
In SC yesterday on 95, I noticed an ambulance slowly gaining on me.  The driver eventually passed me.

I was going 81 mph at the time!

I have never seen an ambulance going so fast. Relative to my speed, the driver was probably going no more than 85 mph. As it passed me, I looked over. The driver just looked like she was out for a normal drive like every other traveler on the road.

I have noticed ambulance drivers also driving fast as well. On one particular occasion, I was travelling south on the 405 from Bellevue, WA towards Renton. Traffic was heavy but not congested, and we were moving at about 70-75 (speed limit 60). In much the same way, a Falck Mercedes Sprinter very slowly was approaching from behind. They eventually caught up, by making several close lane changes. There's no way to know if they were responding; there were two in the front seat, and they were just laughing and BS'ing with each other, from the look of it. No one in the rear, AFAICT.



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