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Wisconsin notes

Started by mgk920, May 30, 2012, 02:33:31 AM

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GeekJedi

Quote from: dvferyance on May 25, 2017, 01:06:13 PM
They should have just gone with reissuing plate numbers no longer in use. Four digits is too much.

There's a few issues with that:

1. How long do you wait before you re-issue a number?
2. What if the "original" plate is still on a car, and they simply haven't renewed their registration?
3. It makes it more difficult to stamp plates since you'd be jumping all over the place instead of stamping sequentially.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"


mgk920

I saw a couple in the 'AAD-2xxx' range earlier this week here in Appleton.

Mike

peterj920

All of the BGS on the Wis 57 freeway between I-43 and Wis 54 were just replaced. 

County A now appears on the BGS when it just said University Ave and Nicolet Dr before. 

A wide To US 141 shield was posted on a new I-43 Exit 3/4 mile sign along with a To I-41 shield.  There have been many wide US 151 shields on BGS but this is the first wide US 141 shield seen.  On I-41 all of the shields are narrow.

I-39

Has anyone seen this report?

http://wispirg.org/sites/pirg/files/reports/Road%20Overkill%20Report.pdf

Some of the points are well taken, but I think some of the data is questionable.

Big John

Quote from: I-39 on May 30, 2017, 01:13:12 PM
Has anyone seen this report?

http://wispirg.org/sites/pirg/files/reports/Road%20Overkill%20Report.pdf

Some of the points are well taken, but I think some of the data is questionable.

This thread is based on it: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=9522.0

peterj920

Quote from: I-39 on May 30, 2017, 01:13:12 PM
Has anyone seen this report?

http://wispirg.org/sites/pirg/files/reports/Road%20Overkill%20Report.pdf

Some of the points are well taken, but I think some of the data is questionable.

They don't factor in the reduction of accidents or the economic development that the new expressways have created.  The anti-highway people can only win if they can have a liberal judge rules for them.  People who live near Wis 23 east of Fond Du Lac want it expanded to 4 lanes which was supposed to happen until Judge Lynn Adleman halted the project.  There was a recent bad accident on that stretch and people are mad that it's all happening mostly because the road isn't expanded yet. 

I-39

Quote from: peterj920 on May 30, 2017, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: I-39 on May 30, 2017, 01:13:12 PM
Has anyone seen this report?

http://wispirg.org/sites/pirg/files/reports/Road%20Overkill%20Report.pdf

Some of the points are well taken, but I think some of the data is questionable.

They don't factor in the reduction of accidents or the economic development that the new expressways have created.  The anti-highway people can only win if they can have a liberal judge rules for them.  People who live near Wis 23 east of Fond Du Lac want it expanded to 4 lanes which was supposed to happen until Judge Lynn Adleman halted the project.  There was a recent bad accident on that stretch and people are mad that it's all happening mostly because the road isn't expanded yet.

I know. Like I said, some of the points were well taken. I do agree that some of the projects they listed weren't necessary (like WIS 26, Burlington bypass, US 141, etc), but these people are against any highway expansion, and that is ludicrous.

IMO, Wisconsin should have only made the backbone routes in the corridors 2030 upgradable expressway/freeway-grade and done the connectors as lesser expressways or four lane arterials.

peterj920

US 141 is busier than most people think.  It's the main highway to Nothern Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula. 

I think Wis 26 was needed since it connected many mid size cities with a 4-lane roadway.  I think Watertown might be the only city over 10,000 that isn't connected by a freeway or Expressway in the entire state.  I'd say that's pretty impressive. 

GeekJedi

I also think it's easy to look at these projects simply by predicted AADT, however a lot of the roads referenced had geometry and safety issues as well. For example, in Burlington, there are railroad tracks that cut through downtown. Even now when there's a train, the backups are enormous. Or, as peterj920 mentioned, 141. While it's pretty quiet during the week, the traffic on the weekends during the summer can be dangerous. Yes, those roads could have been upgraded to lesser facilities, but combine that with the traffic projections, and it makes sense. Often it's easier (and less expensive in the long run) to do it "big" the first time, than to go back and upgrade later.

That's the issue that I have with that report. It spends a lot of time looking at traffic projections, but not any of the other issues that make these projects unique.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

20160805

#1709
Yesterday near my house in Metro Appleton, I saw an AAB-5555 (number modified to protect the dude's privacy).

And I'm honestly shocked that 141 is busier than that same part of 41.  41 is a direct shot into Marinette/Menominee (combined population 21K?) and a couple of other smaller cities, and in the UP it passes right through Escanaba (13K) and Marquette (21K).
Left for 5 months Oct 2018-Mar 2019 due to arguing in the DST thread.
Tried coming back Mar 2019.
Left again Jul 2019 due to more arguing.

mgk920

Quote from: 20160805 on June 02, 2017, 07:19:24 AM
Yesterday near my house in Metro Appleton, I saw an AAB-5555 (number modified to protect the dude's privacy).
Your new(ly acquired) car?

:hmmm:

I saw a car with 'AAE-4202' in the wild here in Appleton yesterday.

Quote
And I'm honestly shocked that 141 is busier than that same part of 41.  41 is a direct shot into Marinette/Menominee (combined population 21K?) and a couple of other smaller cities, and in the UP it passes right through Escanaba (13K) and Marquette (21K).

US 141 has always been a busy straight shot northward from Green Bay.  It seems to me to be a much more popular commuter route from the northwoods than is US 41.  The four lanes on US 41 were done at the same time as on US 141.

Also, the traffic north of Green Bay is such that once funding becomes available (yea, right...), I can easily see the six lanes being extended from Lineville Rd northward all the way to the Abrams interchange.

Mike

I-39

Quote from: GeekJedi on May 31, 2017, 07:05:14 AM
I also think it's easy to look at these projects simply by predicted AADT, however a lot of the roads referenced had geometry and safety issues as well. For example, in Burlington, there are railroad tracks that cut through downtown. Even now when there's a train, the backups are enormous. Or, as peterj920 mentioned, 141. While it's pretty quiet during the week, the traffic on the weekends during the summer can be dangerous. Yes, those roads could have been upgraded to lesser facilities, but combine that with the traffic projections, and it makes sense. Often it's easier (and less expensive in the long run) to do it "big" the first time, than to go back and upgrade later.

That's the issue that I have with that report. It spends a lot of time looking at traffic projections, but not any of the other issues that make these projects unique.

I agree there are other reasons for highway upgrades, but I think they could have been addressed with lesser upgrades (in some cases such as US 10 west of Stevens Point, WIS 26, Burlington Bypass, etc) without plowing in a major four lane divided highway that is freeway or near freeway-grade. For example, some of those routes could have gotten by with an improved two lane highway or a five lane undivided road with traffic lights or roundabouts. Is it ideal? No, but freeway and high-quality expressway-grade highways are expensive to maintain, and I think those should have been saved for the backbone routes.

Granted, like I said, while I think some of their points are well-taken, I do not agree with everything. Ultimately, these kind of people want everyone to live in cities and use public transit. That's not gonna happen. Whether they like it or not, highways are here and will be here for a long time.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: I-39 on June 02, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on May 31, 2017, 07:05:14 AM
I also think it's easy to look at these projects simply by predicted AADT, however a lot of the roads referenced had geometry and safety issues as well. For example, in Burlington, there are railroad tracks that cut through downtown. Even now when there's a train, the backups are enormous. Or, as peterj920 mentioned, 141. While it's pretty quiet during the week, the traffic on the weekends during the summer can be dangerous. Yes, those roads could have been upgraded to lesser facilities, but combine that with the traffic projections, and it makes sense. Often it's easier (and less expensive in the long run) to do it "big" the first time, than to go back and upgrade later.

That's the issue that I have with that report. It spends a lot of time looking at traffic projections, but not any of the other issues that make these projects unique.

I agree there are other reasons for highway upgrades, but I think they could have been addressed with lesser upgrades (in some cases such as US 10 west of Stevens Point, WIS 26, Burlington Bypass, etc) without plowing in a major four lane divided highway that is freeway or near freeway-grade. For example, some of those routes could have gotten by with an improved two lane highway or a five lane undivided road with traffic lights or roundabouts. Is it ideal? No, but freeway and high-quality expressway-grade highways are expensive to maintain, and I think those should have been saved for the backbone routes.

Granted, like I said, while I think some of their points are well-taken, I do not agree with everything. Ultimately, these kind of people want everyone to live in cities and use public transit. That's not gonna happen. Whether they like it or not, highways are here and will be here for a long time.


I have to agree with this.  As someone who is regularly on WI-26, the new four lane road is nice.  But there are times where I am one of just a few cars I can see in either direction.  It could have easily been a Super 2 expressway like what was around Fort Atkinson before.  I even question whether or not the bypass around Milton was necessary.  The traffic was never terrible through town, and the entire north end of the bypass has a basically deserted Old WI-26 running just to the west.

mgk920

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2017, 02:38:32 PM
Quote from: I-39 on June 02, 2017, 01:08:37 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on May 31, 2017, 07:05:14 AM
I also think it's easy to look at these projects simply by predicted AADT, however a lot of the roads referenced had geometry and safety issues as well. For example, in Burlington, there are railroad tracks that cut through downtown. Even now when there's a train, the backups are enormous. Or, as peterj920 mentioned, 141. While it's pretty quiet during the week, the traffic on the weekends during the summer can be dangerous. Yes, those roads could have been upgraded to lesser facilities, but combine that with the traffic projections, and it makes sense. Often it's easier (and less expensive in the long run) to do it "big" the first time, than to go back and upgrade later.

That's the issue that I have with that report. It spends a lot of time looking at traffic projections, but not any of the other issues that make these projects unique.

I agree there are other reasons for highway upgrades, but I think they could have been addressed with lesser upgrades (in some cases such as US 10 west of Stevens Point, WIS 26, Burlington Bypass, etc) without plowing in a major four lane divided highway that is freeway or near freeway-grade. For example, some of those routes could have gotten by with an improved two lane highway or a five lane undivided road with traffic lights or roundabouts. Is it ideal? No, but freeway and high-quality expressway-grade highways are expensive to maintain, and I think those should have been saved for the backbone routes.

Granted, like I said, while I think some of their points are well-taken, I do not agree with everything. Ultimately, these kind of people want everyone to live in cities and use public transit. That's not gonna happen. Whether they like it or not, highways are here and will be here for a long time.


I have to agree with this.  As someone who is regularly on WI-26, the new four lane road is nice.  But there are times where I am one of just a few cars I can see in either direction.  It could have easily been a Super 2 expressway like what was around Fort Atkinson before.  I even question whether or not the bypass around Milton was necessary.  The traffic was never terrible through town, and the entire north end of the bypass has a basically deserted Old WI-26 running just to the west.

And when I've discussed the north end of WI 26 (the part between WI 60 and US 151), I've always advocated building a new-ROW WI 26 between WI 60 and US 151 on the southeast 'corner' of Beaver Dam - as a 'super two' expressway on an upgradable four-lane ROW.

Ditto a new-ROW US 10 between County 'CE' southeast of Kaukauna and existing US 10 at Forest Junction (an idea that I really, REALLY like) - two lanes on an upgradable four-lane ROW.

:nod:

Mike

triplemultiplex

Quote from: mgk920 on June 02, 2017, 02:55:03 PM
Ditto a new-ROW US 10 between County 'CE' southeast of Kaukauna and existing US 10 at Forest Junction (an idea that I really, REALLY like) - two lanes on an upgradable four-lane ROW.

I would like to have seen a corridor preserved for US 10 from the southwestern "elbow" of 441 (probably just west of where Lake Park Rd crosses under) to where US 10 and CTH N currently meet.  But the development has closed in and now it's not a viable option.  If it was still 1991, back when 441 was first going in, it would've been a cinch.  If it wouldn't be built for 30 years, so be it; at least the corridor would be available.  Could've even held enough ROW for a system interchange.  Oh well.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

mgk920

#1715
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 02, 2017, 04:40:07 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 02, 2017, 02:55:03 PM
Ditto a new-ROW US 10 between County 'CE' southeast of Kaukauna and existing US 10 at Forest Junction (an idea that I really, REALLY like) - two lanes on an upgradable four-lane ROW.

I would like to have seen a corridor preserved for US 10 from the southwestern "elbow" of 441 (probably just west of where Lake Park Rd crosses under) to where US 10 and CTH N currently meet.  But the development has closed in and now it's not a viable option.  If it was still 1991, back when 441 was first going in, it would've been a cinch.  If it wouldn't be built for 30 years, so be it; at least the corridor would be available.  Could've even held enough ROW for a system interchange.  Oh well.

I can easily envision something like at I-41/WI 32/WI 29 (Shawano Interchange) in the Green Bay area or what is planned at I-39/90/I-43 (Beloit Interchange) in Beloit being done at WI 441/County 'CE' (College Ave) in Appleton for such a US 10 reroute.

Every time that I drive on County 'CE' east of WI 441, I can't help but think that it would be an ideal reroute of US 10.

Mike

JREwing78

Quote from: GeekJedi on May 31, 2017, 07:05:14 AM
I also think it's easy to look at these projects simply by predicted AADT, however a lot of the roads referenced had geometry and safety issues as well. For example, in Burlington, there are railroad tracks that cut through downtown. Even now when there's a train, the backups are enormous.

Ditto with the Hwy 26 bypass. Traffic through Milton may not have been "bad" most of the time, but rail traffic is heavy enough to make a big mess at inopportune times.

Traffic may not be heavy by I-39/90 or I-94 standards, but it's picking up as people discover the route, particularly truck traffic. With construction underway on I-39/90, anyone headed for the Fox Valley is much better served following Hwy 26.

Quote from: GeekJedi on May 31, 2017, 07:05:14 AMOr, as peterj920 mentioned, 141. While it's pretty quiet during the week, the traffic on the weekends during the summer can be dangerous.

Hell, traffic during the winter (the supposed "slow" season) on US-141 can be dangerous! I came back from the UP on a Sunday in early February and the 2-lane section north of Hwy 64 was jammed with southbound traffic. The 4-lane section was a huge relief after fighting sketchy road conditions and limited visibility from the roostertails of spray kicked up.

At least Wisconsin has finally embraced the concept of passing lanes on its 2-lanes; it was about the only safe way to get any passing done until the 4-lane stretch.

20 years ago, prior to the 4-laning, US-141 was a horrible slog, particularly on the weekends. The lack of passing opportunities and the constant slowdowns for all the small towns wore you down. And, don't forget, the stoplight at Hwy 22. That was frequently a 2 to 3 cycle wait to get through.

US-41 to Marquette through Marinette and Escanaba is actually slower than US-141 through Iron Mountain to M-95 to US-41/M-28 outside of Ishpeming, MI. You have to traverse more towns, and it's a less direct route.

DaBigE

Quote from: mgk920 on June 02, 2017, 10:12:00 AM
Quote from: 20160805 on June 02, 2017, 07:19:24 AM
Yesterday near my house in Metro Appleton, I saw an AAB-5555 (number modified to protect the dude's privacy).
Your new(ly acquired) car?

:hmmm:

I saw a car with 'AAE-4202' in the wild here in Appleton yesterday.

Up to 'AAH-16##' in the Madison area. I've seen at least 3 others appear around our apartments over the past couple weeks.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

SEWIGuy

Quote from: DaBigE on June 09, 2017, 08:57:07 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 02, 2017, 10:12:00 AM
Quote from: 20160805 on June 02, 2017, 07:19:24 AM
Yesterday near my house in Metro Appleton, I saw an AAB-5555 (number modified to protect the dude's privacy).
Your new(ly acquired) car?

:hmmm:

I saw a car with 'AAE-4202' in the wild here in Appleton yesterday.

Up to 'AAH-16##' in the Madison area. I've seen at least 3 others appear around our apartments over the past couple weeks.


With all due respect, do we really need anymore of these reports?  The new license plates are out and people will start to see them.

The Ghostbuster

I agree with SEWIGuy. Let's talk about something other than license plates in Wisconsin. Like this story from jsonline.com, for instance: Walker movement on tolling is a good sign for Wisconsin roads - http://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/blogs/real-time/2017/06/07/walker-movement-tolling-good-sign-wisconsin-roads/379209001/

Joe The Dragon

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 09, 2017, 05:15:31 PM
I agree with SEWIGuy. Let's talk about something other than license plates in Wisconsin. Like this story from jsonline.com, for instance: Walker movement on tolling is a good sign for Wisconsin roads - http://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/blogs/real-time/2017/06/07/walker-movement-tolling-good-sign-wisconsin-roads/379209001/
limited to access points on the state line?? so I can just get off at Russell and back on at 104 to get out of the toll?

SEWIGuy

Yeah that's just another dumb idea by Walker.  It looks good because it seems to "tax" people from out out state, but it wouldn't be much of a revenue generator and would be easily avoided by those with a map.

Revive 755

Quote from: Joe The Dragon on June 09, 2017, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 09, 2017, 05:15:31 PM
I agree with SEWIGuy. Let's talk about something other than license plates in Wisconsin. Like this story from jsonline.com, for instance: Walker movement on tolling is a good sign for Wisconsin roads - http://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/blogs/real-time/2017/06/07/walker-movement-tolling-good-sign-wisconsin-roads/379209001/
limited to access points on the state line?? so I can just get off at Russell and back on at 104 to get out of the toll?

I do not believe this setup would be legal under current rules for tolling interstates - especially since there is at the moment no further reconstruction needed for I-94 south of Kenosha.  Sounds about as bad as the proposals in Pennsylvania to toll I-80.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: Revive 755 on June 10, 2017, 11:46:36 AM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on June 09, 2017, 10:49:15 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 09, 2017, 05:15:31 PM
I agree with SEWIGuy. Let's talk about something other than license plates in Wisconsin. Like this story from jsonline.com, for instance: Walker movement on tolling is a good sign for Wisconsin roads - http://www.jsonline.com/story/opinion/blogs/real-time/2017/06/07/walker-movement-tolling-good-sign-wisconsin-roads/379209001/
limited to access points on the state line?? so I can just get off at Russell and back on at 104 to get out of the toll?

I do not believe this setup would be legal under current rules for tolling interstates - especially since there is at the moment no further reconstruction needed for I-94 south of Kenosha.  Sounds about as bad as the proposals in Pennsylvania to toll I-80.


Because that's not Walker's motivation.  His motivation is entirely political.  "Hey, here's a way we can get money for roads without increasing the gas tax.  And get out of state residents to pay for it!"  (Sound familiar???)

I-39

So what reconstruction projects will be done as part of the Governor's efforts to toll the Interstates. After all, Interstates can only be tolled if it is to pay for reconstruction......



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