Northwest Observations (with some Canada too!)

[CentralCAroadgeek]

Well, I noticed quite a lot of new things on the roads in and around the Northwest last week.

Oregon Observations:

First, I noticed that Oregon has some pretty funky speed limit signs that I enjoyed:

Second, I really like Oregon's exit tabs. They look very organized in the middle. For some reason, I didn't notice these on the US-26 freeway west of Portland:

*As a bonus, this image is just south of the Terwillger curves

Third, I really like the use of differing font sizes on their signs. Like this sign here:

Fourth, I wonder why Oregon has a lot of off-center signs like these:

Next , I like the fact that gas stations in Oregon have gas boys. Only if California had these, there would be more jobs...

Finally, I have a question. What is all the construction being done on I-5 in downtown Portland? They closed I-5 between both I-405 interchanges for southbound traffic there.

_______

I'll put up Washington and BC observations later...

[myosh_tino]

The Oregon SPEED signs are certainly unique to Oregon but on a recent trip (3 years ago), I did notice more standard SPEED LIMIT signs going up on I-5 and I-205.

Something else Oregon does that California does not is putting a period after abbreviations like on the Terwilliger Blvd. exit sign above.

I would also be curious to see if Oregon continues the practice of centering exit tabs because that has become a no-no according to the latest MUTCD.

Next , I like the fact that gas stations in Oregon have gas boys. Only if California had these, there would be more jobs...

...and I have the opposite feeling.  I would rather pump my own gas rather than having to wait for an attendant to come out to pump my gas.  I wish Oregon would change this law.

[agentsteel53]

I very much dislike the forced gas attendant policy in Oregon. 

the worst is when a station is closed (as opposed to reverting to self-service with pay-at-the-pump) during off-hours.

I try to wave the attendants off as often as I can.  it works about half the time, especially if the station is busy.  once, it was just me, at a rare 24-hour station in Klamath Falls (the only one open!).  it was about 23 below, and the operator was quite grateful for the chance to stay inside the booth!

btw, native reservations in Oregon are self-serve.  and cheaper! 

[Tarkus]

The Oregon SPEED signs are certainly unique to Oregon but on a recent trip (3 years ago), I did notice more standard SPEED LIMIT signs going up on I-5 and I-205.

That's mostly due to FHWA pressure in the mid-2000s.  The state statutes formerly forbid the use of the word "limit" on speed signs, though with the FHWA pressure, a bill was passed sometime around that same time removing that restriction, and forbidding the use of the Oregon-style speed signs on interstates.  A few jurisdictions have since taken to posting "un-Oregonian" speed limit signs since then as well (mostly Roseburg, Salem and Beaverton).

Beyond being a native Oregonian and used to the "limitless" versions, I find them vastly more readable than the MUTCD standard.  The number is the pertinent part of the sign, so why clutter it up with extraneous verbiage?  Heck, most other countries seem to be doing alright with no verbiage at all.

Regarding the gas attendant policy, I don't like pumping gas, and when I lived in Washington, I purposely sought out a station where I didn't have to do self-serve--it also happened to be the cheapest station in town, coincidentally.  It doesn't really bother me that we have that restriction, and it doesn't seem to really affect the prices.

[Alps]

The reason Oregon speed signs omitted "LIMIT" was because it was not, in fact, a legal limit. The maximum speed was not enforceable as such, but you could be cited for other driving offenses if driving over that limit. (Then again, you could be cited for offenses at any speed.) As Tarkus says, now that state law has been rewritten, the word "LIMIT" applies. Oregon was certainly within its rights to post "SPEED 35," as the MUTCD allows for state-specific exceptions where state law directly contravenes articles in the MUTCD.

[luokou]

I believe the off-centered destinations are one single place name rather than the usual 'one line per destination/control city' setup, so the BGS above would denote "Tri City" and "Myrtle Creek." Apparently it would cost more to manufacture a wider sign, or a wider sign would be too near the shoulder of the highway and would more likely be damaged.

[Bickendan]

Well, I noticed quite a lot of new things on the roads in and around the Northwest last week.

Oregon Observations:

*As a bonus, this image is just south of the Terwillger curves

The image is smack in the center of the Curves, actually.

Finally, I have a question. What is all the construction being done on I-5 in downtown Portland? They closed I-5 between both I-405 interchanges for southbound traffic there. [/center]

Pavement rehab.

[sp_redelectric]

I try to wave the attendants off as often as I can.  it works about half the time, especially if the station is busy.  once, it was just me, at a rare 24-hour station in Klamath Falls (the only one open!).  it was about 23 below, and the operator was quite grateful for the chance to stay inside the booth!...btw, native reservations in Oregon are self-serve.  and cheaper!

The gas stations can get into huge trouble with the State Fire Marshall (which is part of Oregon State Police) if caught allowing customers to pump their own gasoline.  A number of years ago one particular gas station decided it would allow customers to do so and they subsequently got a pretty hefty fine.

Diesel is OK for self-service.  Go figure.  Apparently the driver of a Volkswagen Jetta TDI is smarter than the driver of a gasoline engined Jetta.

As for the gas stations on tribal lands being cheaper, I dare you to go buy gas at the Shell station in front of Spirit Mountain Casino on Highway 18 (on the Grand Ronde indian reservation).  I made that mistake once, paid probably 20 cents a gallon more than I would have had I just duked it out to McMinnville (or Lincoln City, going the other way).  Of course it helps that the nearest gas station is in Willamina, which isn't even on Highway 18 mainline but a business loop, seven miles away, then Sheridan (again on the business loop, another six or seven miles past Willamina), and then it's Dallas or McMinnville depending on whether you take 22 or 18.  And west, it's about 20 or so miles to Lincoln City.

[sp_redelectric]

The reason Oregon speed signs omitted "LIMIT" was because it was not, in fact, a legal limit. The maximum speed was not enforceable as such, but you could be cited for other driving offenses if driving over that limit.

You would not be charged with "violation of the speed limit" but rather "violation of the Basic Rule" (ORS 811.100), of which you are in violation of if you operate your vehicle at a speed greater than reasonable and prudent given a number of factors including traffic, weather, road surface, etc.

It wasn't until 2003 that ORS 811.111, "Violating a speed limit" was enacted into law, and if I recall correctly it's because it was discovered that the 65 MPH posted limit was unenforceable under the existing laws.  That law also establishes speed limits on roads not posted, such as 20 MPH limits in business districts and 25 MPH in residential districts.  ORS 811.105 also specifies that driving in excess of those speeds is evidence of violating the Basic Rule, along with 55 MPH anywhere not otherwise described in 811.105.

[Kacie Jane]

Fourth, I wonder why Oregon has a lot of off-center signs like these:

They use that "left-aligned, cascading indent" style whenever the destination spans multiple lines.  In other words, while it's relatively obvious on that sign, it's meant to distinguish between "Tri City / Myrtle Creek" , "Tri City / Myrtle / Creek", or "Tri City Myrtle / Creek".

[CentralCAroadgeek]

Some more now (Sorry for being SO late on these).

More Oregon Observations

First, what does this sign mean? These are pretty common in Oregon.

Second, I've noticed that Lincoln City uses these "banner" mile markers instead of the normal mile markers.

Speaking of mile markers, why is the mileage messed up along 101 in Oregon? What I mean by this is that Mile 1 on 101 looks to be in Astoria instead of the California border. What's the reasoning for this?

Finally, what does this flashing yellow arrow mean? (It's a solid arrow in this pic, but it's really flashing)

Washington Observations

It's kinda weird how Washington puts the destination ABOVE the street/highway. Such as this:

Washington can't seem to decide on what kind of exit gore point signs to use. There's Texas-style:

California-style:

And Oregon-style:

This sure is a weird set of "LANE ENDS" and pull-through signs. There isn't even an exit around.

How does the "Pay-by-Mail" on the SR-520 bridge work? Especially for out-of-staters like us? It's been two weeks since we crossed and I still haven't noticed a letter from WSDOT or whoever does the tolls on that bridge.

I find it strange that the mile markers on the changeable speed signs on I-5 have tenths of a mile:

The only places where I've seen state-named Interstate shields are signs such as these, but none on the Interstates themselves:

This sign is pretty old, with a unique lane signage that I never really saw before. Along with an ugly warning sign next to it.

I like Washington's "____ EXITS" signs. Not really common in California.

Are these the first arrow-per-lane diagrammatics in Washington? If not, where?

This sure is an interesting way to sign a double exit:

I like the rural road signs in Washington. They look pretty funky...

What are these "Check Miles" that I kept on seeing along I-5?

Finally, can someone explain to me the "delay of 5 or more cars is illegal" rule along 101 in the Olympic Peninsula?

British Columbia observations coming soon...

[The High Plains Traveler]

^Your flashing yellow arrow above is a 3-section installation that does not provide a protected left turn. Normally you would see those at intersections where the oncoming direction of traffic has a protected left turn cycle, so the left turn lane will get a FYA while through traffic has a red. It doesn't look like there is a left turn for oncoming traffic at all there - or maybe nothing more than a driveway - so the FYA at that corner might as well have been a solid green.

[corco]

Finally, can someone explain to me the "delay of 5 or more cars is illegal" rule along 101 in the Olympic Peninsula?

Five cars seems excessive- in Idaho it's three cars.

The point of the rule is that if there are five cars behind you, you're required to pull into marked turnouts to let other cars go by. Even if you're going the speed limit, you're still required to pull over. Helps alleviate road rage and facilitates traffic flow, forcing cars that may not consider themselves to be "slow" to use the turnouts by trying to apply some objectivity to what "slow" is. Without the law, slow but not terribly slow moving traffic tends to just ignore the turnouts, developing a line of cars behind them.



That's kind of a bummer, because that's sign's predecessor had an TO I-84 trailblazer on it.

[OracleUsr]

Wait...raised caps, a directional tab (heck, ANY tab) on a WA interstate?  Interesting!

[myosh_tino]

Wait...raised caps, a directional tab (heck, ANY tab) on a WA interstate?  Interesting!

It looks like that new arrow-per-lane sign may also signal the end of Washington's full-width exit tabs... bummer.

Regarding the "delay of 5 cars" law, this also applies in California.  Just as corco explains, if you've got 5 or more cars behind you, you are obligated to use the next turnout to allow these cars to pass.

The Check Mile signs in the last photo, I believe, were meant to allow the people to check their odometers for accuracy.  These were very common in California but have all but disappeared from California's freeways.

The "Oregon-style" gore point sign is what I consider to be the "national" standard and while California still uses their significantly smaller signs, I am seeing more signing plans calling for the installation of the larger gore signs found in most parts of the U.S.

[Tarkus]

^Your flashing yellow arrow above is a 3-section installation that does not provide a protected left turn.

Actually, that's a "dual arrow" FYA signal.  The bottom light can actually change colors, between green and flashing yellow, providing for both protected and permitted operations.

Most of the installations since the start of 2011 have been 3-light "dual arrow" setups.  Washington County has been the biggest adopter--they've replaced hundreds of standard protected green signals with 3-light dual arrow FYAs, as well as replacing many doghouses and sticking them on previously unprotected intersection approaches.

[Kacie Jane]

Wait...raised caps, a directional tab (heck, ANY tab) on a WA interstate?  Interesting!

Tabs are relatively common in WSDOT's "Southwest Region" (south of MP 85, the Thurston County line).  However, even then, they're not always done correctly, frequently landing Oregon-style in the center.

Similarly, "Texas-style" gores are typically only found in the SW, with California-style the most common elsewhere.

Re: the "check miles"... I think the signs say they're actually intended to check the speedometer.  Since I know I always drive with a stopwatch handy to make sure I drive 5 miles in exactly 5 minutes. 

[The High Plains Traveler]

^Your flashing yellow arrow above is a 3-section installation that does not provide a protected left turn.

Actually, that's a "dual arrow" FYA signal.  The bottom light can actually change colors, between green and flashing yellow, providing for both protected and permitted operations.

.
Most of the installations since the start of 2011 have been 3-light "dual arrow" setups.  Washington County has been the biggest adopter--they've replaced hundreds of standard protected green signals with 3-light dual arrow FYAs, as well as replacing many doghouses and sticking them on previously unprotected intersection approaches.

That's interesting. Somehow I thought the dual arrows within a single section (which I remember seeing in Arizona in the 1990s) were an experiment that FHWA ultimately rejected due to brightness, or maybe ambiguity for color perception-impaired drivers. Any reason why they wouldn't have used a standard 4-section head to provide these functions? EDIT: To answer my own question I viewed the video and it appears that the existing 3-section heads were modified, saving cost of new equipment.   

[J N Winkler]

I would also be curious to see if Oregon continues the practice of centering exit tabs because that has become a no-no according to the latest MUTCD.

Actually, no, that is not quite true.  What the latest MUTCD now bans is the use of anything but a left-aligned tab for left exits.  Ordinary right exits can continue to have center-justified exit tabs, though the MUTCD shows part-width right-justified exit tabs.

Finally, can someone explain to me the "delay of 5 or more cars is illegal" rule along 101 in the Olympic Peninsula?

Five cars seems excessive- in Idaho it's three cars.

The point of the rule is that if there are five cars behind you, you're required to pull into marked turnouts to let other cars go by. Even if you're going the speed limit, you're still required to pull over. Helps alleviate road rage and facilitates traffic flow, forcing cars that may not consider themselves to be "slow" to use the turnouts by trying to apply some objectivity to what "slow" is. Without the law, slow but not terribly slow moving traffic tends to just ignore the turnouts, developing a line of cars behind them.

In my experience, turnout signs (which have now been added to the national MUTCD) do not work well unless drivers are already familiar with them.  I still remember being the first car behind another with Iowa plates on the twisty stretch of US 34 just east of Estes Park, Colorado in 2003.  There were multiple turnouts and signs indicating that they had to be used, but the Iowa car drove past at least a dozen of them without slowing down, while a queue of at least 20 cars built up behind it.  I finally lost patience and put my foot to the floor in an area of marginal visibility, and once I finished my overtaking maneuver, there were no cars in my rearview mirror for about 15 minutes.

In Washington, turnout signs were state-specific standard signs for at least a decade before they were added to the national MUTCD.  In California, they have been standard signs since the Great Redrawing of 1971 at the very least.  But in both states (and also in Idaho, in my experience), turnout signs are not used unless paved turnouts are actually provided and topography makes it impractical or expensive to provide continuous full-width shoulders.  US 101 in the Olympic Peninsula has a very constrained alignment for much of its length (essentially mountains to one side, the Pacific Ocean to the other), and it also has a much higher volume of interurban bicycle traffic than most rural state highways.  In fact, there are special warning signs which cater specifically to cyclists.

Regarding the gas attendant policy, I don't like pumping gas, and when I lived in Washington, I purposely sought out a station where I didn't have to do self-serve--it also happened to be the cheapest station in town, coincidentally.  It doesn't really bother me that we have that restriction, and it doesn't seem to really affect the prices.

I am not foolish enough to imagine that Oregon or, for that matter, New Jersey will abandon compulsory full-service because out-of-staters dislike it.  Indeed, I suspect that each bit of criticism from out of state only strengthens Oregonians' and New Jerseyans' determination to keep it.

This said, however, I prefer self-service even though I dislike pumping gas.  First, I am deaf, so it is infinitely more cumbersome for me to get out of my car and start negotiating with an attendant than it is to pump my own gas.  Second, I have owned cars which trigger pump shutoffs prematurely when gas is pumped in at full volume, which most attendants do by default since they think, incorrectly, that that will get me in and out faster.

The one gas station attendant I have met in Oregon who seemed clued in to the possibility of premature pump shutoff was a retiree working in Baker City, and if all pump attendants in the state were like him, I could live happily with a full-service policy.  But it was more usual for me to drive into a station with just a pint left in a 15.5-gallon tank, request a complete fillup (leaving Bend for Burns, say), and then be presented with a chit to sign for just 2.5 gallons because that was when the pump shutoff tripped.

This sure is a weird set of "LANE ENDS" and pull-through signs. There isn't even an exit around.

This is the approach to the Toutle River bridge on I-5, which is one end of a length of I-5 in Lewis County which I believe is the last portion of I-5 in Washington state to be just four lanes.

[JREwing78]

Most of the installations since the start of 2011 have been 3-light "dual arrow" setups.  Washington County has been the biggest adopter--they've replaced hundreds of standard protected green signals with 3-light dual arrow FYAs, as well as replacing many doghouses and sticking them on previously unprotected intersection approaches.

That's interesting. Somehow I thought the dual arrows within a single section (which I remember seeing in Arizona in the 1990s) were an experiment that FHWA ultimately rejected due to brightness, or maybe ambiguity for color perception-impaired drivers. Any reason why they wouldn't have used a standard 4-section head to provide these functions? EDIT: To answer my own question I viewed the video and it appears that the existing 3-section heads were modified, saving cost of new equipment.   

I think also the fact that the signal is flashing under yellow and steady under green gives the appropriate cues to a color-blind person.

[CentralCAroadgeek]

I forgot to mention that I think WSDOT just doesn't know what a 3dus shield is, as noted by numerous reassurance shields such as this in Port Angeles (Though I have seen some in the proper widths):

This sure is a weird set of "LANE ENDS" and pull-through signs. There isn't even an exit around.

This is the approach to the Toutle River bridge on I-5, which is one end of a length of I-5 in Lewis County which I believe is the last portion of I-5 in Washington state to be just four lanes.

Your last statement is not entirely true. There are long stretches of I-5 north of the Seattle area to Vancouver that are four lanes.

[Bickendan]

Some more now (Sorry for being SO late on these).

More Oregon Observations

First, what does this sign mean? These are pretty common in Oregon.

The road will either divide, or if not, you're approaching a Do Not Pass (double yellow line) segment.

Second, I've noticed that Lincoln City uses these "banner" mile markers instead of the normal mile markers.

First I've seen those.

Speaking of mile markers, why is the mileage messed up along 101 in Oregon? What I mean by this is that Mile 1 on 101 looks to be in Astoria instead of the California border. What's the reasoning for this?

All non-interstate north-south highways in Oregon have their origin at the Columbia River/Washington border, not the California/Nevada border. All east-west highways (interstates included) have their origin at the Pacific Ocean. Exception: US 30's Lower Columbia River Highway segment (Astoria-Portland) originates at I-405, not at US 101.

What are these "Check Miles" that I kept on seeing along I-5?

These are speedometer check sections, where you're meant to gauge your speedometer's accuracy during the five mile stretch. If you're driving at 60 mph, it should take five minutes to clear the five miles.

[Bickendan]

I forgot to mention that I think WSDOT just doesn't know what a 3dus shield is, as noted by numerous reassurance shields such as this in Port Angeles (Though I have seen some in the proper widths):

This sure is a weird set of "LANE ENDS" and pull-through signs. There isn't even an exit around.

This is the approach to the Toutle River bridge on I-5, which is one end of a length of I-5 in Lewis County which I believe is the last portion of I-5 in Washington state to be just four lanes.

Your last statement is not entirely true. There are long stretches of I-5 north of the Seattle area to Vancouver that are four lanes.

WSDOT's in the process of widening I-5 between Hazel Dell and I-205. This picture you posted shows this intent:


WSDOT's also planning on widening the four-lane portion between Centralia and Olympia at some point.
Note that I-5 north of Everett (I think north of Marysville) is four-lanes all the way onto BC 99, which is four laned all the way onto Oak Street in Vancouver.

[Kacie Jane]

WSDOT's also planning on widening the four-lane portion between Centralia and Olympia at some point.
Note that I-5 north of Everett (I think north of Marysville) is four-lanes all the way onto BC 99, which is four laned all the way onto Oak Street in Vancouver.

It's six lanes all the way to Exit 224 (for Old 99) just south of Mount Vernon, but yes, four lanes north of there to the border (and beyond).

[jemacedo9]

More Oregon Observations

First, what does this sign mean? These are pretty common in Oregon.

The road will either divide, or if not, you're approaching a Do Not Pass (double yellow line) segment.

If you look at the top of the divided highway sign, the "median" is not solid, it's hashed.  If there was a "physical" median, such as a concrete or unpaved median, the normal divided highway sign with the "solid" median would be used.  But when the road widens to accomodate a left turn lane, for example, and there is a "painted" median with yellow-painted diagonal lines in the middle, the sign you posted is used.

I've only ever seen this in OR, and it took me several intersections to figure it out.