NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95

[Strider]

I-444 isn't signed, but it is a "secret" design for US 75 in Tulsa between the I-244 exits.

[Arkansastravelguy]

I-444 isn't signed, but it is a "secret" design for US 75 in Tulsa between the I-244 exits.

Lol I know I've been on it several times. I'm just giving my fellow okie/arky hell.


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[roadman65]

it now is signed E-W to follow FHWA guidelines

FHWA guidelines for route direction only really apply to Interstate highways.  Directional signage for state and US routes is strictly a state matter.

Tell that one to FDOT District 4 as they assign US 98 as E-W despite all other districts have US 98 east of Perry as N-S.  I wrote them about it and told them its confusing and being it only runs true E-W for a few miles from Belle Glade to Palm Beach it should be signed N-S.  However, FDOT told me that odd numbers are to be north to south and even numbers east and west and the engineer gave me other examples of routes signed different from their actual direction.

In fact US 92 runs north-south more miles than US 98 does run east-west  in Palm Beach County.  Plus FDOT District 1 signs US 98 as N-S west of Okeechobee where it does run E-W, but with District 4 signing their district maintenance of US 98  has the N-S portion (with US 441) south of Okeechobee signed E-W.  I pointed these facts out, but they kept insisting that cardinal direction is what to be signed and not local or regional.

[WashuOtaku]

It's north-south because it's an odd-digit interstate highway.  Also, if one looks on a map, it does go north-south similar to I-85 in the state.  Same reason I-26 is east-west, because it's even-digit. 

Wrong.  3 digit interstates aren't required to be signed in the same direction of their parents.  There are plenty of examples of 3 digit interstates that are signed in a different direction as their parents (I-180, I-530, I-444, etc).

Just because there are exceptions to the rule, it doesn't make it right.   

[bugo]

It's north-south because it's an odd-digit interstate highway.  Also, if one looks on a map, it does go north-south similar to I-85 in the state.  Same reason I-26 is east-west, because it's even-digit. 

Wrong.  3 digit interstates aren't required to be signed in the same direction of their parents.  There are plenty of examples of 3 digit interstates that are signed in a different direction as their parents (I-180, I-530, I-444, etc).

Just because there are exceptions to the rule, it doesn't make it right.   

IT'S NOT A RULE!  Are you saying I-530 should be signed E-W?  There is no rule for 3 digit interstates that says they must be signed according to the direction of their "parent" highway.  Look it up.

[Arkansastravelguy]

It's north-south because it's an odd-digit interstate highway.  Also, if one looks on a map, it does go north-south similar to I-85 in the state.  Same reason I-26 is east-west, because it's even-digit. 

Wrong.  3 digit interstates aren't required to be signed in the same direction of their parents.  There are plenty of examples of 3 digit interstates that are signed in a different direction as their parents (I-180, I-530, I-444, etc).

Just because there are exceptions to the rule, it doesn't make it right.   

IT'S NOT A RULE!  Are you saying I-530 should be signed E-W?  There is no rule for 3 digit interstates that says they must be signed according to the direction of their "parent" highway.  Look it up.

I second this. The only 3di rules I'm aware of are if the first number is odd it's a spur and if it's even it's a loop/belt. And there are exceptions to that as well so it may not be an actual "rule". The numerical value if a 3di in no way reflects it's cardinal direction


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[Roadrunner75]

Problem solved:

[hbelkins]

Problem solved:

At one time, that would have worked in Ohio.

I am old enough to remember the N-EAST, S-EAST, N-WEST, S-WEST directional banners that were used in Ohio.

[Strider]

I-444 isn't signed, but it is a "secret" design for US 75 in Tulsa between the I-244 exits.

Lol I know I've been on it several times. I'm just giving my fellow okie/arky hell.


iPhone

haha good one though.

[mrsman]

Look at these signs, north and south I-495, near Raleigh.



Also took a picture of a typical "Future I-495" along the route east of I-540 and the BIG end sign for US 264, which if you look on the asphalt, will soon may be replaced with a combo end I-495/US 264 sign.    I have more pictures on my flickr page.

I agree that I-495 should be signed East-West rather than N-S.  I also agree that there should be guide signs along the major approaches from Raleight to I-495 east that recommend that traffic heading to I-95 north should use I-495 and that traffic heading to I-495 south should use I-40.

[TheStranger]

I agree that I-495 should be signed East-West rather than N-S.  I also agree that there should be guide signs along the major approaches from Raleight to I-495 east that recommend that traffic heading to I-95 north should use I-495 and that traffic heading to I-495 south should use I-40.

As someone who's never been to the area, I do wonder:  for points north of Raleigh (namely Richmond), is 495 to 95 that much faster of a route than US 1 to I-85?

[74/171FAN]

I agree that I-495 should be signed East-West rather than N-S.  I also agree that there should be guide signs along the major approaches from Raleight to I-495 east that recommend that traffic heading to I-95 north should use I-495 and that traffic heading to I-495 south should use I-40.

As someone who's never been to the area, I do wonder:  for points north of Raleigh (namely Richmond), is 495 to 95 that much faster of a route than US 1 to I-85?

Not really.  I worked near the RDU Airport last summer and it was quicker to take NC 50 and US 15 or US 1 to I-85.  It was not much of a debate in my mind because I barely ever used I-495 to I-95.

[CanesFan27]

It depends on where you live.  If you live in Eastern Wake County or Northeast Raleigh or even ITB - yes 495 95 is better. North Raleigh, Durham Cary Etc then 50/85 or 1/85 is better.

[bugo]

At least they didn't get I-44.  There should only be one I-44.  Besides, the direction US 64 in NC runs doesn't line up with the existing I-44.  Every even number between I-40 and I-64 is available, and NCDOT picks the one that isn't available?  Nonsense.  It shouldn't be a 2 digit route, and if it must be then I-42 or I-46 would be a better number.

[Arkansastravelguy]

At least they didn't get I-44.  There should only be one I-44.  Besides, the direction US 64 in NC runs doesn't line up with the existing I-44.  Every even number between I-40 and I-64 is available, and NCDOT picks the one that isn't available?  Nonsense.  It shouldn't be a 2 digit route, and if it must be then I-42 or I-46 would be a better number.

I agree with I-46. But there probably will be one soon with the Texas/Illinois/North Carolina war for the most interstate highways


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[roadman65]

What gets me is that NC does not build its freeways up to standards at first.  US 64, if it was built right at first, would have no problem transitioning.  Remember most of US 64 was built post interstate.  That is why Nashville is used as WB control city on I-95 instead of Raliegh unlike US 264 to the south at Wilson which does use Raliegh as that one opened back in 05.  US 64 defaulted on to surface roads a few miles west of I-95 when it opened in the early 80's there.

[Avalanchez71]

NC is crazy with building some many fully controlled access facilities.  I see why TN has such a better tax structure then NC.

[CanesFan27]

Jeremy,

NCDOT didn't choose I-44.  It was done by the local planning organization.  NCDOT never asked for I-44.

[CanesFan27]

JP natsiatka,

NC along with many other states didn't build to interstate standards. Hell, SC 22 is not. NC has built nearly all freeways the past 15-20 years to interstate standards and that includes the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses for US 70. Among others.

Hindsight - in saying if NC in the 1970s should have built a road to become an interstate 40 years later - is 20/20.

[froggie]

FHWA guidelines for route direction only really apply to Interstate highways.  Directional signage for state and US routes is strictly a state matter.

Tell that one to FDOT District 4 as they assign US 98 as E-W despite all other districts have US 98 east of Perry as N-S.

NC has built nearly all freeways the past 15-20 years to interstate standards and that includes the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses for US 70. Among others.

...though there are plenty of exceptions.  Fayetteville bypass, US 64 east of Plymouth, and US 17 Elizabeth City bypass to name a few.  All three have been built in the last 12 years and all three lack Interstate-standard shoulders.  The Fayetteville bypass, in particular, is why that route is going to be signed as NC 295 instead of I-295.

[I94RoadRunner]

I'd rather see a 2di, as short as it is. What about extending such an Interstate designation along US-64 to Williamston or even Columbia with upgrades?

Upgrading US 64 between Williamston and Plymouth would require an entirely new roadway unless you want to remove numerous homes as existing US 64 in this location has dozens and dozens of driveway accesses.   The 4-laning of US 64 took away much property from these homes' front yards and there isn't room to add frontage roads adjacent to the main alignment.  Due to swamps/Roanoke River and the railroad, it wouldn't be possible for a lot of this stretch to put parallel roads behind the houses either.

I'm not sure under current guidelines if Williamston qualifies as big enough to be the end point of an interstate.

Greenville on the other hand is at least the equivalent of Goldsboro, so when somebody puts in for US 264 to be an interstate they can do that...

If US 1 south of Raleigh ever became freeway all the way to Rockingham the I-495/US 1 could be a 2di or I-495 could form one great big loop using I-73 to get back to I-95 south of Dillon.

Mapmikey

What NCDOT wants to do is to connect to the Norfolk area along US 17. Makes sense, I just would like to see another designation that I-44 since it is already used from St Louis into Texas.

[froggie]

What local business interests want to do is to connect to the Norfolk area along US 17.

FTFY.

[I94RoadRunner]

What local business interests want to do is to connect to the Norfolk area along US 17.

FTFY.

Yes, that is a more accurate statement .....

[Molandfreak]

What local business interests want to do is to connect to the Norfolk area along US 17.

FTFY.

Yes, that is a more accurate statement .....

Still, it's sad and embarrassing that an Interstate connection hasn't been made between Raleigh and Hampton Roads... The businesses are right in this instance.

[froggie]

Still, it's sad and embarrassing that an Interstate connection hasn't been made between Raleigh and Hampton Roads... The businesses are right in this instance.

There's really no need for one.  US 64 (Future I-495...the topic of this thread) and I-95 bring a freeway up to Emporia.  And aside from minor improvements, an interchange here or there, and addressing west Suffolk, US 58 is more than adequate to cover the rest of the distance.  Such a route is also over 20 miles shorter than taking 64 to 17.  The local businesses east of Rocky Mount know this, which is why they're chomping at the bit to try and bring a superhighway to the corridor, even though every trucker worth his load knows US 58 to I-95 is both shorter and faster.