Raiders relocating to San Antonio?

[texaskdog]

And it's a huge state, and California has three, four if LA gets a team.  Still don't know why the bay has TWO, especially when neither play in SF anymore.

First, why would it matter whether the teams play in SF or not, as long as they're playing somewhere in the market? The Cowboys don't play in Dallas, correct? Both New York teams play in New Jersey, right?

Second, the Bay Area has two teams because historically they have been one of the largest markets in the country. According to Nielsen, San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose is currently #6, just behind Dallas, but they have the #20 market (Sacramento-Stockton) immediately adjacent. If you combined the two you'd have the #3 market in an area geographically comparable in size to the Dallas market, and the markets adjacent to Dallas are nowhere near that large (Waco is #88).

All that said, San Antonio (or Austin) could easily support an NFL team, and should be a serious candidate for any relocation or expansion.

SA could easily support a team.  I don't think Austin would be a great market because the Longhorns are so big here and with a college football team that popular the "supporting two teams" argument would be valid.  Raiders would be a good team because it would take a while for an expansion team or a Jaguars to burn in. 

[jbnv]

I don't think Austin would be a great market because the Longhorns are so big here and with a college football team that popular the "supporting two teams" argument would be valid.

Thousands of people in Baton Rouge support both the Saints and LSU football. And I'm pretty sure that Baton Rouge is smaller than Austin.

[texaskdog]

I don't think Austin would be a great market because the Longhorns are so big here and with a college football team that popular the "supporting two teams" argument would be valid.

Thousands of people in Baton Rouge support both the Saints and LSU football. And I'm pretty sure that Baton Rouge is smaller than Austin.

yes but what if the saints were wholly dependent on the population of baton rouge to be successful?

[Brandon]

I don't think Austin would be a great market because the Longhorns are so big here and with a college football team that popular the "supporting two teams" argument would be valid.

Thousands of people in Baton Rouge support both the Saints and LSU football. And I'm pretty sure that Baton Rouge is smaller than Austin.

yes but what if the saints were wholly dependent on the population of baton rouge to be successful?

Then you have the following:

Columbus, Ohio: Buckeyes (NCAA) and Blue Jackets (NHL)
Minneapolis, Minnesota: Golden Gophers (NCAA), Timberwolves (NBA), Wild (NHL), Vikings (NFL), and Twins (AL)
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: Panthers (NCAA), Penguins (NHL), Steelers (NFL), and Pirates (NL)

One can make the argument that Baton Rouge roots for the Saints in the way that Green Bay roots for the Badgers.

[jbnv]

One can make the argument that Baton Rouge roots for the Saints in the way that Green Bay roots for the Badgers.

Or Madison for the Packers. From what I observed living there for over a year, I'd say they can support both quite well.

[tchafe1978]

One can make the argument that Baton Rouge roots for the Saints in the way that Green Bay roots for the Badgers.

Or Madison for the Packers. From what I observed living there for over a year, I'd say they can support both quite well.

You might as well go ahead and call the Packers the Wisconsin Packers, as they pretty much have a statewide following. The team may be based in Green Bay, but the support does not end there, which is one reason why the team is able to survive in such a small market.

[texaskdog]

I don't think Austin would be a great market because the Longhorns are so big here and with a college football team that popular the "supporting two teams" argument would be valid.

Thousands of people in Baton Rouge support both the Saints and LSU football. And I'm pretty sure that Baton Rouge is smaller than Austin.

yes but what if the saints were wholly dependent on the population of baton rouge to be successful?

Then you have the following:

Columbus, Ohio: Buckeyes (NCAA) and Blue Jackets (NHL)
Minneapolis, Minnesota: Golden Gophers (NCAA), Timberwolves (NBA), Wild (NHL), Vikings (NFL), and Twins (AL)
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: Panthers (NCAA), Penguins (NHL), Steelers (NFL), and Pirates (NL)

One can make the argument that Baton Rouge roots for the Saints in the way that Green Bay roots for the Badgers.

Bad arguments: 
Columbus: they play differents sports
Minnesota: The Gophers aren't that big a deal.  I know, I went to the U of M. 
Pitt: same with the panthers.

I'm talking about the big name colleges:  Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Florida, Alabama......  is there even one NFL city that also has a high level college team?  I can't think of one.  I think it could work in LA but that's the exception.

[jbnv]

I'm talking about the big name colleges:  Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Florida, Alabama......  is there even one NFL city that also has a high level college team?  I can't think of one.  I think it could work in LA but that's the exception.

Miami has an NFL team and a major NCAA team (U. of Miami).

LSU may not be in New Orleans, but it draws people from all directions. LSU is almost as big in Houston as it is in New Orleans.

[US 41]

The Georgia Bulldogs aren't too far from Atlanta either.

[DTComposer]

I'm talking about the big name colleges:  Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Florida, Alabama......  is there even one NFL city that also has a high level college team?  I can't think of one.  I think it could work in LA but that's the exception.

(assuming the definition of big name colleges = ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, SEC; and assuming NFL city includes the immediately surrounding area, say a half-hour drive):

Denver Broncos/U of Colorado
Seattle Seahawks/U of Washington
San Francisco 49ers/Oakland Raiders/Stanford/U of California
Arizona Cardinals/Arizona State U
Detroit Lions/U of Michigan
etc.

[bing101]

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/09/the-geography-of-nfl-fandom/379729/?utm_source=taboola

The Raiders still have Los Angeles territory

[Pete from Boston]

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/09/the-geography-of-nfl-fandom/379729/?utm_source=taboola

The Raiders still have Los Angeles territory

Yet not Oakland!

[texaskdog]

I'm talking about the big name colleges:  Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Florida, Alabama......  is there even one NFL city that also has a high level college team?  I can't think of one.  I think it could work in LA but that's the exception.

Miami has an NFL team and a major NCAA team (U. of Miami).

LSU may not be in New Orleans, but it draws people from all directions. LSU is almost as big in Houston as it is in New Orleans.

Okay, Miami is one exception.  LSU does draw from other markets but not the same city, same with Athens/Atlanta.

[Brandon]

Bad arguments: 
Columbus: they play differents sports

OSU does in fact have a hockey team.

[Pete from Boston]

Map of college football preferences as stated on facebook:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/03/upshot/ncaa-football-map.html

[Henry]

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/09/the-geography-of-nfl-fandom/379729/?utm_source=taboola

The Raiders still have Los Angeles territory

Yet not Oakland!

This would be the perfect opportunity for L.A. to lure the Raiders back! And if not them, then either the Rams or Chargers could come back, with the stadium situations in their respective cities being just as bad, if not worse. The Cardinals and Padres have already built new stadiums of their own, thus leaving their NFL counterparts in the lurch.

[Pete from Boston]

I think your point about St. Louis is slightly out of step.  Both the Cardinals and Rams got new stadiums, albeit ten years apart.  The football Cardinals and baseball Cardinals played in the 1966 Busch Stadium.  When the Rams arrived, they initially did as well before moving to the brand-new TWA Dome.  The Cardinals continued playing baseball in Busch until the new Busch was built in 2005.  To say this leaves the Rams in the lurch or leaves them slighted in any way gives them way too much credit.   

[1995hoo]

I believe St. Louis built that dome specifically because of the football Cardinals leaving town and that construction began before the city managed to lure a new team.

[Pete from Boston]

That's true.  I think it was completed about when the Rams arrived (or just after, since they apparently did play at the old Busch).

Which means their 19-year-old facility is now obsolete to them.  Granted, the Braves have this infantilism beat by two years, but it's still quite a ballsy position to take.

[1995hoo]

I think the Rams played a partial season at Busch stadium if memory serves (I'm too lazy to look it up).

I tend to think nowadays just about any fixed-roof dome, as opposed to a retractable-roof stadium, is obsolete in most of North America. There are a few cities where a facility of that sort could be a good thing. Mexico City comes to mind immediately because of the air pollution (and man, can you imagine how loud it would be if they put a roof on Azteca?!!!). But I understand why in some cases the cost mandates a fixed roof. I believe the new Minnesota Vikings stadium is to have a fixed roof because a retractable roof was deemed too expensive and the government refused to help with the cost unless a roof were included. In Minnesota that's pretty reasonable given that an open-air facility couldn't be used for other purposes during the winter, whereas an enclosed facility can be.

[texaskdog]

Bad arguments: 
Columbus: they play differents sports

OSU does in fact have a hockey team.

I'm talking about hugely successful teams in college football vs having a pro team.  Miami is the only one I can think of that is a powerhouse in college yet they also have a pro team.  Minnesota, Pitt, Northwestern are not college powerhouse football teams.  Wisconsin plays in a completely different part of the state.  LA has no pro team.  Maybe Arizona too.  My point is that you can't just plop a pro team in Austin or Columbus and have it be successful because the college team has such pro-level support.  Yes we in Austin like the Cowboys but the Longhorns are our team.

[6a]

I'm talking about hugely successful teams in college football vs having a pro team.  Miami is the only one I can think of that is a powerhouse in college yet they also have a pro team. 

Miami, the powerhouse team:

[ARMOURERERIC]

I think it speaks volumes that AEG, even with an $800 Million naming rights deal with Farmer's Insurance STILL can't get a Los Angeles deal done.

[bing101]

http://www.sfgate.com/raiders/article/Former-San-Antonio-mayor-calls-Raiders-move-5876849.php

Raiders Update to Texas?

[triplemultiplex]

I tend to think nowadays just about any fixed-roof dome, as opposed to a retractable-roof stadium, is obsolete in most of North America. There are a few cities where a facility of that sort could be a good thing. Mexico City comes to mind immediately because of the air pollution (and man, can you imagine how loud it would be if they put a roof on Azteca?!!!). But I understand why in some cases the cost mandates a fixed roof. I believe the new Minnesota Vikings stadium is to have a fixed roof because a retractable roof was deemed too expensive and the government refused to help with the cost unless a roof were included. In Minnesota that's pretty reasonable given that an open-air facility couldn't be used for other purposes during the winter, whereas an enclosed facility can be.

Retractable roofs on NFL stadiums are a huge waste of money.  Pay attention to them every Sunday.  They are almost always closed.  Dallas, Indy, Houston, even Phoenix where it never rains; they rarely play games with those expensive fancy roofs open. 
Build a dome or build a stadium.  There's only 8 games a year.  (10 if you include preseason.)  Bad enough these teams all want handouts from taxpayers to build the damn things in the first place.  Minneapolis at least got it right to reject any concepts with retractable roofs.

Save the movable roofs for baseball teams.  They host 80 games every year and the season covers 3 of the 4 seasons.  Much more useful.