Why are there next to no interstate business loops in the Northeast?

[ixnay]

Longhorn's thread on the lack of stack interchanges in the Northeast inspired this thread.

Interstate business loops are pretty common in Michigan, the Carolinas (esp. NC), and west of the Mississippi, but other than Business Loop 83 in York, PA, they're basically non existent east of the Appalachians and north of the Potomac.  OTOH I've seen and driven my share of U.S. and state business routes in PA, DE, and MD.

Anyone have a theory as to why the Northeast is adverse to green interstate signs?  As longhorn suggested about the stacks IIRC, maybe it's the culture.

ixnay

[hotdogPi]

Probably because every route is referred to only by number, so Interstate 90 and hypothetical Business Loop 90 would both just be called "90", resulting in confusion.

[Alps]

I think the Northeast is just so dense with businesses, there's no reason to sign a business route. Also the old US highways are by and large still extant, so you would take 1 off 95, 46 off 80, 9W or 9 off 87, etc. to find businesses if you weren't sure.

[RobbieL2415]

There was a BUS-84 in Newtown, CT back in the 70s.

[Max Rockatansky]

Usually Business Loops and Interstate Spurs tend to be more common where there was a US Route that was decommissioned.  The OP mentioned Michigan in the original post; a good example there is a lot of sections of old US 16 being business loops of I-96.  Another example would be US 66 with all the I-40 Business Loops in Arizona.  Granted some states don't like to sign Interstate Spur Routes or Business Loops regardless. 

[briantroutman]

Usually Business Loops and Interstate Spurs tend to be more common where there was a US Route that was decommissioned.

I think this is essentially the answer. In the rural Midwest and West, where development was typically sparse in the early postwar years, an Interstate would often be built on top of or closely beside the existing US route between towns and then routed on a new bypass alignment around a city. The existing main drag running through town would be marked as the Business Loop.

In the Northeast and Mid Atlantic, the amount of existing suburban and rural development typically precluded the possibility of building Interstates on top of existing US routes, and even where an Interstate fairly closely paralleled its US predecessor (such as I-78 and US 22), the two alignments often diverged for dozens of miles at a time, making the potential BLs so long that they'd be useless.

Another possible contributing factor is the prevalence of toll routes grandfathered into the Northeast's Interstate network. With exits spaced far apart and service plazas to satisfy motorists "business"  needs, they just weren't compatible with the BL model.

I think the reason why you do see US and state business routes in PA and some other states in the region is that they typically are a little more like the Midwestern and Western Interstate loops in a sense: They follow the old US route alignment closely with fairly tight bypasses of cities along the route. These US and state freeways were often built later than the Interstates and were more local/regional in their focus–generally intended to serve the same cities and towns served by the existing road rather than a long haul national or regional corridor.

[roadman65]

It is the old US routes that are decommissioned that have the BL in the west, as here on the east coast we keep our US routes.  True NCDOT has some like US 301 in Fayetteville, NC which runs totally concurrent with US 301, but that is because I-95 runs so far east of the city, it was created to provide I-95 with lodging and food as most of the other interchanges with I-95 near Fayetteville are with freeways and have no services.

I do think, though, that NJ should implement a BL I-78 along US 22 from Exit 18 to the terminus of US 22 in Newark, due to the lack of motorists services at the interchanges along I-78 between Clinton and Jersey City.  Also a BL I-95 would work along US 46 between its two interchanges along I-95.  The sign that used to be on I-95 South after the GWB used to say "No Services on I-95 to NJ Turnpike USE US 46" encourages that one for me as its also only 3 miles long too with plenty of gas stations to fuel up at for those going and leaving NYC.

Plus the awkward I-78 non freeway segment could be fixed if NJDOT and NYDOT decided to make it a BS I-78 like SCDOT did with I-20 east of I-95 in Florence, SC.  I-78 would end at Jersey Avenue with the NJT and Route 78 could still make it to NY, but in a green shield instead.

[Derek]

I have previously read that the Lowell Connector freeway in Lowell, MA was briefly signed as I-495 business loop, but it has not been signed as such for decades .....

[briantroutman]

Yes...or almost: Business Spur

(from Steve Alpert's website)

[Alex]

I have previously read that the Lowell Connector freeway in Lowell, MA was briefly signed as I-495 business loop, but it has not been signed as such for decades .....

Two map scans and a photo provide you with some more proof.
https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i0495bma

[roadman]

I have previously read that the Lowell Connector freeway in Lowell, MA was briefly signed as I-495 business loop, but it has not been signed as such for decades .....

As I've noted in other threads, the signing was only provided on side streets approaching the Connector, and not on the Connector mainline, or I-495 and US 3 where they intersect the Connector.

[bob7374]

Another reason could be that since traditionally there have been few, if any, signed business routes (US or state) in New England, signing Business Interstate routes would not typically be proposed by most of the state DOTs.

[mrsman]

Plus the awkward I-78 non freeway segment could be fixed if NJDOT and NYDOT decided to make it a BS I-78 like SCDOT did with I-20 east of I-95 in Florence, SC.  I-78 would end at Jersey Avenue with the NJT and Route 78 could still make it to NY, but in a green shield instead.

This would be a good idea.  I would sign the green 78 along 12th Street in Jersey City between Jersey Ave and the Holland Tunnel entrance.  In NYC, as well as along the section of 14th Street leading to the freeway portion (NJ Tpke Extension), the signs would be clearer if they said "TO 78" with the traditional red white and blue shields.

[PHLBOS]

One very old (60s or 70s) street map of Salem, MA I saw at a gas station back in the 80s showed proposed rights-of-way of the long-since cancelled Salem & Vinnin Square Connectors to I-95 (south of 128).  The map marked both of these proposed connectors as Business Spur 95.  Whether such designations were actually proposed by the then-DPW or not is anyone's guess.

Of the 2 connectors, the Salem Connector proposal (which included the new Salem/Beverly (MA 1A) Bridge and the current Bridge St. Bypass (Relocated MA 107) lingered until the 1980s (but revised to connect to MA 128 when I-95 inside of 128 was cancelled).  Had that connector been built, who knows what route number it would've carried.   

[bzakharin]

Another reason could be that since traditionally there have been few, if any, signed business routes (US or state) in New England, signing Business Interstate routes would not typically be proposed by most of the state DOTs.

NJ has plenty of business US routes, especially for US 1, but no Interstate business routes

[Brandon]

It may also have to do with who maintains the business loops and spurs.  For example, in both Wisconsin and Indiana, business routes are locally maintained, not state maintained (unless they are concurrent with a state route).  In Illinois and Michigan, they are state maintained.

[mariethefoxy]

wasnt there a Business Loop in New Hampshire, I remember seeing a photo of an old sign for one

[hotdogPi]

wasnt there a Business Loop in New Hampshire, I remember seeing a photo of an old sign for one

I may be wrong, but I think it was US 3 in Laconia.

[AMLNet49]

wasnt there a Business Loop in New Hampshire, I remember seeing a photo of an old sign for one

Interstate 89 near Lebanon, it was routed on US 4, but it is no longer signed or in existence. Both of the previous Business Loops/Spurs are now decomissioned.

[roadman]

wasnt there a Business Loop in New Hampshire, I remember seeing a photo of an old sign for one

On trips to visit my grandmother and uncle in the late 1960s, I remember seeing signs on the Everett Turnpike (before it was formally signed as part of I-293) indicating a "Business Everett Turnpike" loop through Downtown Manchester.

[mariethefoxy]

the entire DW Highway in Nashua from Exit 4 to Exit 36 should be a Business US 3 if NH used business routes.

[MVHighways]

Yes...or almost: Business Spur

(from Steve Alpert’s website)

That sign no longer exists and has been gone since at least 2012, and possibly before then.

the entire DW Highway in Nashua from Exit 4 to Exit 36 should be a Business US 3 if NH used business routes.

There is just one problem with that. US 3 from exit 7 on north follows the D.W. Highway, up until the Franconia Notch Parkway where it shares with I-93 at Exit 34 of 93. Then it leaves the Parkway at exit 35 (which is a super-two: I-93 is one of very few interstates, if not the only one, to have a super-two somewhere along its path) and becomes the D.W. Highway again carrying Route 3 all the way with it to the Canadian border crossing. There are a few stretches, primarily within the Manchester and Concord immediate area, where the road loses the D.W. Highway name, but it regains it every time; so it is the D.W. Highway crossing from Tyngsboro, MA; and crossing from Chartierville, QC. The D.W. Highway in those other stretches does NOT follow a different road, it just loses the name. The only stretch of the. D.W. Highway that is NOT US 3 is south of Exit 7 in Nashua.

[spell4yr]

Yes...or almost: Business Spur

(from Steve Alpert's website)

That sign no longer exists and has been gone since at least 2012, and possibly before then.

the entire DW Highway in Nashua from Exit 4 to Exit 36 should be a Business US 3 if NH used business routes.

There is just one problem with that. US 3 from exit 7 on north follows the D.W. Highway, up until the Franconia Notch Parkway where it shares with I-93 at Exit 34 of 93. Then it leaves the Parkway at exit 35 (which is a super-two: I-93 is one of very few interstates, if not the only one, to have a super-two somewhere along its path) and becomes the D.W. Highway again carrying Route 3 all the way with it to the Canadian border crossing. There are a few stretches, primarily within the Manchester and Concord immediate area, where the road loses the D.W. Highway name, but it regains it every time; so it is the D.W. Highway crossing from Tyngsboro, MA; and crossing from Chartierville, QC. The D.W. Highway in those other stretches does NOT follow a different road, it just loses the name. The only stretch of the. D.W. Highway that is NOT US 3 is south of Exit 7 in Nashua.

I assume this is the Exit 36 in Massachusetts (and probably starting/ending at the southbound-only Exit 3). Yes, that would be a long business route in the other direction.

[Alps]

Side note: I-81 in Thousand Islands is another "Super-2" Interstate. I-70 gets down to a brief Super-2 by definition (one lane each way through an interchange in Wheeling, WV). I think there are others, but it's getting off topic already.

[mariethefoxy]

Yea I meant the last Massachusetts Exit #36. From there you get all the businesses and the mall in there before it meets back up with US 3.