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I-4 and Sand Lake Road in Orlando

Started by roadman65, May 28, 2016, 11:15:41 AM

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roadman65

I was wondering what many of you think should be done to improve traffic at the current Exit 74A on I-4 which is a nightmare these days.  Especially with Turkey Lake Road being about 500 feet west of the interstate's westbound offramp, and many I-4 motorists turning right on Sand Lake to go immediately left on Turkey Lake do not help at all.  As many WB Sand Lake motorists do also turn left at Turkey Lake Road, the conflict there erupts each day.

I think that the ramp currently that is going WB should not go to the Sand Lake Road directly, but flyover the WB Sand Lake Road to WB I-4 loop ramp and over Sand Lake Road before ending at grade with Turkey Lake Road.  Therefore those heading SB on Turkey Lake do not even enter Sand Lake and those wishing to go to Sand Lake would do so by using NB Turkey Lake.

What would some of you who know this area do?  For those of you who do, you most likely know that that interchange is a mess and of course will not get any better as is.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


DeaconG

On the I4 Express page there's a couple of proposals for the reconstruction of the Sand Lake interchange, one looks like a regular SPUI and the other one looks like some hellish mishmash of a DDI with loop ramps:

http://www.i4express.com/Seg2Docs/DSGNRD201_SANDLAKE_SPUI_Reduced.pdf
http://www.i4express.com/Seg2Docs/SEGMENT2_SANDLAKE_ALT4_RECOMMENDED.pdf

The second one seems to be pushed as the recommended alternative.

Thank Gawd I don't use I-4 to commute any more...I used to drive from the Space Coast to a gig on John Young which included that section of I-4. Nope, don't miss it at ALL.

The full page of I4 Express Segment 2 project documents is here:

http://www.i4express.com/project_documents_segment_2.shtm
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Anthony_JK

Makes perfect sense to me....the loop ramp substitutes for the left turn movement from Sand Lake to Turkey Lake, and folds into the ramp from I-4 to Turkey Lake. Pretty slick, and also saves plenty of $$$$ from keeping a DDI over a SPI.

roadman65

You know what is odd, is back in 89 they completely redid the interchange where they should have thought about now then!  Before the current strip mall was built they could have built the WB ramp to tie into Turkey Lake through what is now the plaza. 

Considering that was the  planned WB connection to Universal at the time, as Kirkman had no access to the former main entrance at Major Boulevard due to the WB ramp there merging into Kirkman right at the intersection there, it should have been considered.  Being that traffic right after opening of the theme park to the time the current set up with its own interchange, WB I-4 traffic to Universal used Sand Lake Road WB for one block and then right on Turkey Lake Road and entered through the former back entrance to the theme park.   Engineers should have saw that one and made one less turn and used Turkey Lake as part of the ramp process.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NE2

Quote from: Anthony_JK on May 28, 2016, 10:46:35 PM
Makes perfect sense to me....the loop ramp substitutes for the left turn movement from Sand Lake to Turkey Lake, and folds into the ramp from I-4 to Turkey Lake. Pretty slick, and also saves plenty of $$$$ from keeping a DDI over a SPI.
Stupid question...why not connect the standard DDI westbound to southbound (I-4 west) left turn ramp to the added Turkey Lake exit? What's the point of building the extra loop ramp with its bridge? The only benefit I see is increased weaving distance for traffic exiting I-4 west to Turkey Lake north, but anyone not going to Phillips Crossing will just use Sand Lake.
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I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

roadman65

I agree with NE on that one, as why go through all the trouble of the loop ramp when a simple slip ramp from inside could do the trick for less $$$.

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

RG407

A DDI seems like a horribly bad idea in an area with a LOT of tourists who are already unfamiliar with the roads.

roadman65

Right now Sand Lake backs up going into the I-4 interchange for  over a mile to the east.  It goes beyond Kirkman Road, and its all because of the I-4 and Turkey Lake intersection.  You may be right on that one, as it may not help, but then again eliminating those on I-4 W Bound to Turkey Lake Road who use Sand Lake to do so by adding direct ramps between those two might not be a bad thing.

The problem is we are very retroactive here with projects as that I-4/ Sand Lake interchange was not among urban environment twenty years ago.  They had room then to use, for the much needed extra ramps.  Instead they did not even buy up the right of ways!  When Howard Johnson closed where Golden Corral, and Checkers is now, FDOT should have bought the land and kept it clear from development so that it could have been used later on for when traffic increases.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

This:

Quote
The problem is we are very retroactive here with projects as that I-4/ Sand Lake interchange was not among urban environment twenty years ago.

Answers this:

Quote from: roadman65 on May 29, 2016, 11:01:32 AM
You know what is odd, is back in 89 they completely redid the interchange where they should have thought about now then!

Remember as well, while the ramp may have opened back in 1989, the planning process dates further back than that.  Most planning processes look at progression 25 years in advance, and the planning process is only as good as what's known and expected.  If the area wasn't part of the urban landscape at that time, it's possible it wasn't even considered, and there's generally no reason to buy ROW for no reason.  25 years from 1989 is 2014, so there's really nothing wrong with what they did. 

QuoteBeing that traffic right after opening of the theme park to the time the current set up with its own interchange, WB I-4 traffic to Universal used Sand Lake Road WB for one block and then right on Turkey Lake Road and entered through the former back entrance to the theme park.   Engineers should have saw that one and made one less turn and used Turkey Lake as part of the ramp process.

If the interchange into Universal was part of the future plans, it sounds like entering thru the back of the park was temporary and there wasn't much reason to further construct the interchange beyond what would be expected in the future.  It would also depend on expected traffic counts and attendance at the park.  If Universal is saying they expect 10,000 people per day, that's what FDOT will design for.  If Universal gets 30,000 people a day, that's not FDOT's fault.

roadman65

That is my whole point is that the planning process takes too damn long!  It needs to be shortened, but then again we know that is beating a dead horse as the Al Gore types have made the long EPA study a permanent feature in our society.   

I really do not know if Universal had the current interchange in the plans when first building the original theme park, or not, but still engineers had to realize that growth will constantly happen even at that time.  Plus holding on to nearby land is not a bad idea considering that FDOT could always sell the land if it never gets used and make a bundle on rising real estate costs. 

Anyway, Caltrans does things like interchange with other roads or use flyovers over them.  If they had Sand Lake Road and I-4 you bet that design that FDOT came up with back in the eighties would not be.  I think EB I-4 would have hook ramps into I Drive and Turkey Lake Road would have kept its original intersection with Sand Lake, as the ramps would have flew over Turkey Lake Road and touch down to the west.  Look at the I-405 and Willshire Blvd. interchange in Westwood Village in LA.  See how Sepulveda Blvd. kept its intersection with Willhire and the ramps from I-405 to Willshire fly over Sepuveda and touch down to grade east of the Seupulveda/ Willshire intersection.

In fact Caltrans does not buy up properties but keeps them and fits the ramps between local businesses, at least along that part of I-405 anyway.  But the cloverleaf at that said interchange works real well and kept the local street grid in place.   The point is that I believe that other ways could have been studied and applied and maybe not being so retroactive as you say they are not, still each DOT needs to learn from the other and learn as they go and yes fight the Al Gore's in DC who slow down road building!
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

I'm going to guess as well that they wanted federal funds for this too.  If they do their required analysis, and there's no suggestion of a need for land in the next 25 years, the feds aren't going to fund it.  Nor is the state.  If FDOT said they're going to spend a million dollars on land that they may need in the future even though there's no plans for that area on the books, you can bet there's going to be a lot of other people fighting saying that they can use that money now on other needed projects.

It's a tough call.  If you look at various interchanges and highways today, and try to say what the area will look like 25 years down the road, it's an almost impossible task.  And when funds are limited, they go with what they know and can reasonably estimate will happen.

NE2

Quote from: roadman65 on May 31, 2016, 08:01:09 AM
Right now Sand Lake backs up going into the I-4 interchange for  over a mile to the east.  It goes beyond Kirkman Road, and its all because of the I-4 and Turkey Lake intersection.  You may be right on that one, as it may not help, but then again eliminating those on I-4 W Bound to Turkey Lake Road who use Sand Lake to do so by adding direct ramps between those two might not be a bad thing.
A lot of that is the lack of a westbound dedicated right turn lane at International Drive and conflicts with the walk phase.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".



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