Interstate Numbering Around Albany

[Conn. Roads]

How is the Berkshire Spur of the Thruway numbered between Selkirk, and Exit B1? Apparently the I90 designation follows the "free 90" route between Colonie, and Castleton. Was the western portion of the spur, west of B1 ever planned to extend west from the I87 junction, in Selkirk, to form some beltway around Albany?

[cl94]

How is the Berkshire Spur of the Thruway numbered between Selkirk, and Exit B1? Apparently the I90 designation follows the "free 90" route between Colonie, and Castleton. Was the western portion of the spur, west of B1 ever planned to extend west from the I87 junction, in Selkirk, to form some beltway around Albany?

Alright, here's a brief history:

- When first designated, the Berkshire Spur was I-90
- I-90 was moved to its current routing (finished ~1977) in the 70s
- In the 90s, moving I-90 back to the Berkshire Spur was discussed with I-88 being extended to cover the current free section, but this never happened

The Castleton Bridge and Berkshire Spur were built with a parallel route planned that would have hit the Mass Pike near Lee. It was for this reason that it is the only section of the Thruway system (excluding the Niagara Thruway, which has significant space limitations) that wasn't built for 6 lanes. The original plans for I-90 had it following this northerly route, which would have roughly paralleled NY 43 and US 20 past Pittsfield. The Berkshire Spur is designated but not signed as NY 912M on the portion that is not currently part of the Interstate system.

As far as extending west, sort of, The original plans for the Thruway had it passing through Feura Bush and west of Singerlands, so it wouldn't have come nearly as close to downtown Albany. Those were very early plans (as in 1940s), so I don't know if any other freeway connections were envisioned with that. As far as the spur extending west, there were never any plans, as the area west of there is quite rural and gets mountainous pretty quickly.

[froggie]

There was a 1960s proposal from either NYSDOT or CDRPC to build a freeway between Selkirk and Exit 25, roughly paralleling the railroad, but it never got any further than a line on a map.

[PHLBOS]

FWIW, during the mid-70s through early 80s, Rand McNally (I'm assuming erroneously) listed on its road map toll rate guide for the NYS Thruway that Exit 21A (start of the Berkshire Section) was for I-190.  However, it did not show any I-190 shields/symbols on the maps themselves.

[cl94]

FWIW, during the mid-70s through early 80s, Rand McNally (I'm assuming erroneously) listed on its road map toll rate guide for the NYS Thruway that Exit 21A (start of the Berkshire Section) was for I-190.  However, it did not show any I-190 shields/symbols on the maps themselves.

Had to be erroneous, because I-190 existed in Buffalo.

[RobbieL2415]

How about making it the nation's first four-digit auxiliary Interstate route?   I-1090.

[sparker]

Albany-Pittsfield is one of the sections of I-90 that I haven't clinched.  Thus a question for the crowd:  are there any indications such as "TO SOUTH I-87" westbound on I-90 before it diverges from the toll road and, correspondingly "TO EAST I-90" on I-87 north at or before the Berkshire section interchange on the Thruway main line?  Never did the I-87 portion of the Thruway north of the NY 17 junction; always found surface highways in the Hudson valley much more interesting. 

[cl94]

Albany-Pittsfield is one of the sections of I-90 that I haven't clinched.  Thus a question for the crowd:  are there any indications such as "TO SOUTH I-87" westbound on I-90 before it diverges from the toll road and, correspondingly "TO EAST I-90" on I-87 north at or before the Berkshire section interchange on the Thruway main line?  Never did the I-87 portion of the Thruway north of the NY 17 junction; always found surface highways in the Hudson valley much more interesting.

Yes to both. The Berkshire Spur is signed "NYST/TO I-87/TO I-90" WB and "NYST/TO I-90" EB where it is not part of the Interstate system as well. Additionally, through traffic on I-90 is directed to use the Berkshire Spur to 21A (even though it is no faster, but it nets NYSTA an easy couple bucks)

[Beeper1]

Westbound signage where I-90 leaves the toll road at exit B1 has signs saying "To I-87 & Thruway - New York / Buffalo" as a pull-through.     Signs for Exit 21A on I-87 say "To I-90 East".

[ixnay]

How about making it the nation's first four-digit auxiliary Interstate route?   I-1090.

Could you fit it legibly on a 3DI size interstate sign?

ixnay

[vdeane]

Albany-Pittsfield is one of the sections of I-90 that I haven't clinched.  Thus a question for the crowd:  are there any indications such as "TO SOUTH I-87" westbound on I-90 before it diverges from the toll road and, correspondingly "TO EAST I-90" on I-87 north at or before the Berkshire section interchange on the Thruway main line?  Never did the I-87 portion of the Thruway north of the NY 17 junction; always found surface highways in the Hudson valley much more interesting.

Yes to both. The Berkshire Spur is signed "NYST/TO I-87/TO I-90" WB and "NYST/TO I-90" EB where it is not part of the Interstate system as well. Additionally, through traffic on I-90 is directed to use the Berkshire Spur to 21A (even though it is no faster, but it nets NYSTA an easy couple bucks)

I imagine it is a lot faster during peak commuting times, though EB one won't need a sign to see that... the line for the exit 24 toll plaza starts west of I-890.  WB needs signs... kinda too late to avoid the area when you get to the backup at Everett.

Basically, just avoid the free roads in the Albany area like the plague on weekdays 7-9 and 3-7.

[cl94]

Albany-Pittsfield is one of the sections of I-90 that I haven't clinched.  Thus a question for the crowd:  are there any indications such as "TO SOUTH I-87" westbound on I-90 before it diverges from the toll road and, correspondingly "TO EAST I-90" on I-87 north at or before the Berkshire section interchange on the Thruway main line?  Never did the I-87 portion of the Thruway north of the NY 17 junction; always found surface highways in the Hudson valley much more interesting.

Yes to both. The Berkshire Spur is signed "NYST/TO I-87/TO I-90" WB and "NYST/TO I-90" EB where it is not part of the Interstate system as well. Additionally, through traffic on I-90 is directed to use the Berkshire Spur to 21A (even though it is no faster, but it nets NYSTA an easy couple bucks)

I imagine it is a lot faster during peak commuting times, though EB one won't need a sign to see that... the line for the exit 24 toll plaza starts west of I-890.  WB needs signs... kinda too late to avoid the area when you get to the backup at Everett.

Basically, just avoid the free roads in the Albany area like the plague on weekdays 7-9 and 3-7.

WB isn't too horrible until after the tolls. If you keep left through everything, the worst spot is between 24 and 25. Of course, anyone driving through the Albany area during rush hour is out of their mind- this place has a worse rush hour than several cities that are much larger.

[odditude]

How about making it the nation's first four-digit auxiliary Interstate route?   I-1090.

Could you fit it legibly on a 3DI size interstate sign?

ixnay

it would likely be perfectly legible (albeit hideous) in Series B.

[cl94]

How about making it the nation's first four-digit auxiliary Interstate route?   I-1090.

Could you fit it legibly on a 3DI size interstate sign?

ixnay

it would likely be perfectly legible (albeit hideous) in Series B.

Just look at our friend I-H-201 and how they fit it in a bubble shield.

[Alps]

How about making it the nation's first four-digit auxiliary Interstate route?   I-1090.

Could you fit it legibly on a 3DI size interstate sign?

ixnay

it would likely be perfectly legible (albeit hideous) in Series B.

I played around in Shield Generator and it comes in fine in Series C if you use a state name. Neutered shield would require B.

[jp the roadgeek]

Why not just number the Berkshire Spur from I-87 to B1 as I-187?  It's available, and while there is a NY 187, it's almost 300 miles away. There are other 3DI's that are shorter (just look a couple exits down the Thruway to I-587).  If NY does go to mileage based exits, I-187 would be Exit 134 on the mainline Thruway, and I-87 would be Exits 0 A-B on I-187. Eastbound on I-187, Exit B1 would become Exit 7.  Meanwhile, I-187 would be Exit 369 on the free 90 eastbound.  Westbound on Berkshire 90, I-187 would become Exit 369, and the free 90 exit would be unnumbered.  For those using the full Berkshire Spur, the exits eastbound would go 7/377/384, and westbound would go 384/377/369/0 A-B.

[PHLBOS]

FWIW, Google Maps lists the stretch of the Berkshire Section of the NYS Thruway between I-87 & I-90 as NY 912M

[kkt]

How about making it the nation's first four-digit auxiliary Interstate route?   I-1090.

Could you fit it legibly on a 3DI size interstate sign?

ixnay

If 1090 wouldn't fit, they could use 1190.

[Ian]

How about making it the nation's first four-digit auxiliary Interstate route?   I-1090.

Could you fit it legibly on a 3DI size interstate sign?

ixnay

it would likely be perfectly legible (albeit hideous) in Series B.

Just look at our friend I-H-201 and how they fit it in a bubble shield.

Hawaii even managed to do pretty well on a 2di shield!

[KEVIN_224]

Does a different agency maintain "free" I-90 in the area? I notice this stretch marks the town lines. All I've ever seen on Thruway I-87 is a county marker. I think the Berkshire Spur is all in one county, so I don't know about that road.

[Snappyjack]

Free 90 is maintained by NYSDOT. There are no county or town lines of any kind along the Thruway, except for at the NYC/Westchester County line and I believe on the New England Thruway(95). The Berkshire Spur runs through Albany, Rensselaer and Columbia Counties.

[cl94]

Free 90 is maintained by NYSDOT. There are no county or town lines of any kind along the Thruway, except for at the NYC/Westchester County line and I believe on the New England Thruway(95). The Berkshire Spur runs through Albany, Rensselaer and Columbia Counties.

Yes, but some city lines are marked. Albany is marked on the mainline with a non-standard sign the first time it crosses the line in each direction ("Welcome to Albany | Capital of New York State"). On the Niagara Thruway, Buffalo gets standard signs, while Niagara Falls has a sign similar to Albany ("Welcome to city of Niagara Falls").

Free 90 is definitely NYSDOT and the exact transition point is marked on the west end.

[vdeane]

Meanwhile, Buffalo and Syracuse are marked on I-90 with signs that aren't even remotely near the city lines (and I-90 technically doesn't even enter the latter).  Kingston isn't marked either.  Certainly inconsistent.

[empirestate]

Free 90 is maintained by NYSDOT. There are no county or town lines of any kind along the Thruway, except for at the NYC/Westchester County line and I believe on the New England Thruway(95). The Berkshire Spur runs through Albany, Rensselaer and Columbia Counties.

Yes, it's marked on I-95 as well–at the NYC/Westchester line. (Actually, the Bronx/Westchester county line.)

But actually... the Rockland County line is also marked, on the I-287 connector–along with the state, town and village lines (all the same line, really). And yes, that's Thruway jurisdiction; you can see the "Road Service by Permit Only" sign, not to mention one explicitly marking this as the "Gov Thomas E Dewey Thruway". Plus, the boundary signs all match the Clearview style observed on the Bronx/Westchester signage.

https://goo.gl/maps/z1ZJ2rPgykT2 (step forward from here to see all the aforementioned goodies)

[vdeane]

Interesting... especially since the mark both the town AND the village.  Technically correct, but not how we typically sign things... kinda like the Bronx County signs.