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Central Valley use of "Freeway" as a prefix

Started by fungus, November 26, 2016, 11:42:08 PM

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fungus

Is this is a unique Central Valleyism (and particularly a Central and Southern San Joaquin Valleyism) to call limited access highways like State Route 99 and State Route 180 "Freeway 99" and "Freeway 180"? When did this start? You never hear "Freeway 60" or "Freeway 92", for instance.


Max Rockatansky

I've only ever heard them called the route number such as; 99, 198, 180, 5, 58, ect.  Really I never heard it much different compared to surface highways which people call by the route number.  There doesn't seem to be much distinction between the Interstates and State Routes.

jrouse

I've heard it used in the Fresno area periodically and I wonder if it has to do with the realignment of those routes onto freeways over the last 15-20 years.  Never heard it used anywhere else.


iPhone

sparker

Quote from: jrouse on November 27, 2016, 09:46:39 AM
I've heard it used in the Fresno area periodically and I wonder if it has to do with the realignment of those routes onto freeways over the last 15-20 years.  Never heard it used anywhere else.


iPhone

That's pretty much the gist of it.  As US/CA 99 was gradually upgraded to freeway, with bypasses of the larger cities & towns, locals tended to distinguish between the old road (often by then signed as a business loop) and the new bypass facility by calling it "Freeway 99".  My ex from Fresno did this consistently;  I've noticed over the years that this was a regular feature of conversation at gas stations, restaurants, etc. -- particularly those accustomed to 99 travelers as their customer base.  One particularly pithy comment came from a server at Latif's coffee shop in Turlock along the original 99 routing; I used to stop there for breakfast (southbound) or a late lunch (northbound) when I lived in the L.A. area during my early college years ('67-'72), prompted by earlier stops with my family when I was a kid.  On my last stop there (sometime in early 1971), the server was complaining that the place would likely close once "Freeway 99" was completed (it was in the early stages of construction at the time; opening in mid-'73), primarily since the bypass was relatively far-flung from the center of town -- at least compared to the freeway facilities in Madera, Merced, and Modesto.  I was certainly sympathetic to her plight -- my family had been stopping at Latif's for as long as I could remember; it was certainly a minor "99" landmark.  But the "Freeway 99" conversational reference, IIRC, persisted all the way from Bakersfield north to at least Manteca. 

coatimundi

That would make sense with 180 in Fresno also, since that's more recent than 99 and was also taken pretty far from its original routing.

I wonder why this sort of thing didn't occur in places where 101 has been rerouted, through the towns in the Salinas Valley, for instance. Maybe not as long of a bypass? I've never heard anyone refer to any of the several 101 business routes as such, even though they're often signed, and have certainly never heard "Freeway 101".

sparker

Quote from: coatimundi on November 27, 2016, 02:18:44 PM
That would make sense with 180 in Fresno also, since that's more recent than 99 and was also taken pretty far from its original routing.

I wonder why this sort of thing didn't occur in places where 101 has been rerouted, through the towns in the Salinas Valley, for instance. Maybe not as long of a bypass? I've never heard anyone refer to any of the several 101 business routes as such, even though they're often signed, and have certainly never heard "Freeway 101".

Likely because aside from Salinas and King City, the valley's bypassed towns were relatively small and likely didn't have much in the way of traveler services along the former route, so distinguishing between the business loop(s) -- if indeed there was one posted -- and the freeway wasn't considered necessary.  In the case of King City, once the bypass was completed in early 1969, the services simply migrated out to the interchanges.  And Salinas itself, being the center/collection point for the valley's agricultural activities, most likely had scant reliance on traveler service for revenue.  Local utilitarian jargon like "Freeway 101" just didn't develop because there was little need to do so.

Max Rockatansky

Now and then I've heard Blackstone in Fresno called "Old 41" along with Shaw being called "Old 168."  Even still I don't recall a "Freeway 41, 180, or 168" and my father-in-law has lived there almost all his life, I'm just running under the assumption I would have heard it from him by now.

sparker

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2016, 10:13:19 PM
Now and then I've heard Blackstone in Fresno called "Old 41" along with Shaw being called "Old 168."  Even still I don't recall a "Freeway 41, 180, or 168" and my father-in-law has lived there almost all his life, I'm just running under the assumption I would have heard it from him by now.

The "Freeway XX" term seems to be confined to 99 on a rather exclusive basis -- likely due to the sheer number of towns bypassed with viable business loops (signed or not) intact.  Even with the development of other Fresno freeways, that term doesn't seem to have been applied to the more recent routings. 

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: sparker on November 28, 2016, 04:18:42 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 27, 2016, 10:13:19 PM
Now and then I've heard Blackstone in Fresno called "Old 41" along with Shaw being called "Old 168."  Even still I don't recall a "Freeway 41, 180, or 168" and my father-in-law has lived there almost all his life, I'm just running under the assumption I would have heard it from him by now.

The "Freeway XX" term seems to be confined to 99 on a rather exclusive basis -- likely due to the sheer number of towns bypassed with viable business loops (signed or not) intact.  Even with the development of other Fresno freeways, that term doesn't seem to have been applied to the more recent routings.

Oddly though I have heard Toll House Road through the village of Toll House it self referred to "Old 168" by some locals.  I find that strange since the freeway upgrade is a much more recent upgrade while routing 168 off the Toll House Road Grade was circa early 1970s.

bing101

Quote from: fungus on November 26, 2016, 11:42:08 PM
Is this is a unique Central Valleyism (and particularly a Central and Southern San Joaquin Valleyism) to call limited access highways like State Route 99 and State Route 180 "Freeway 99" and "Freeway 180"? When did this start? You never hear "Freeway 60" or "Freeway 92", for instance.

I wonder if that's basically L.A. Freeway talk spreading to other places. Like "The 5 Freeway" and San Joaquin valley basically borrowed highway naming from them as in "Freeway 99" aka the rumored I-7, or I-9.

coatimundi

Quote from: bing101 on November 28, 2016, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: fungus on November 26, 2016, 11:42:08 PM
Is this is a unique Central Valleyism (and particularly a Central and Southern San Joaquin Valleyism) to call limited access highways like State Route 99 and State Route 180 "Freeway 99" and "Freeway 180"? When did this start? You never hear "Freeway 60" or "Freeway 92", for instance.

I wonder if that's basically L.A. Freeway talk spreading to other places. Like "The 5 Freeway" and San Joaquin valley basically borrowed highway naming from them as in "Freeway 99" aka the rumored I-7, or I-9.

No, I think this naming convention is in opposition to the non-freeway 99, which would likely be called "old 99", "highway 99", just "99" or, more likely, the name of the street (in the case of Fresno and much of that region, Golden State Boulevard).

ACSCmapcollector

Quote from: coatimundi on November 28, 2016, 12:25:47 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 28, 2016, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: fungus on November 26, 2016, 11:42:08 PM
Is this is a unique Central Valleyism (and particularly a Central and Southern San Joaquin Valleyism) to call limited access highways like State Route 99 and State Route 180 "Freeway 99" and "Freeway 180"? When did this start? You never hear "Freeway 60" or "Freeway 92", for instance.

I wonder if that's basically L.A. Freeway talk spreading to other places. Like "The 5 Freeway" and San Joaquin valley basically borrowed highway naming from them as in "Freeway 99" aka the rumored I-7, or I-9.

No, I think this naming convention is in opposition to the non-freeway 99, which would likely be called "old 99", "highway 99", just "99" or, more likely, the name of the street (in the case of Fresno and much of that region, Golden State Boulevard).

I would only use the names that were chosen for those Fresno freeways, CA 180: King Canyon Freeway, CA 41: Eisenhower Freeway, CA 168; Sierra Freeway.

coatimundi

Quote from: ACSCmapcollector on November 28, 2016, 07:58:38 PM
Quote from: coatimundi on November 28, 2016, 12:25:47 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 28, 2016, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: fungus on November 26, 2016, 11:42:08 PM
Is this is a unique Central Valleyism (and particularly a Central and Southern San Joaquin Valleyism) to call limited access highways like State Route 99 and State Route 180 "Freeway 99" and "Freeway 180"? When did this start? You never hear "Freeway 60" or "Freeway 92", for instance.

I wonder if that's basically L.A. Freeway talk spreading to other places. Like "The 5 Freeway" and San Joaquin valley basically borrowed highway naming from them as in "Freeway 99" aka the rumored I-7, or I-9.

No, I think this naming convention is in opposition to the non-freeway 99, which would likely be called "old 99", "highway 99", just "99" or, more likely, the name of the street (in the case of Fresno and much of that region, Golden State Boulevard).

I would only use the names that were chosen for those Fresno freeways, CA 180: King Canyon Freeway, CA 41: Eisenhower Freeway, CA 168; Sierra Freeway.

I only refer to 41 north of Fresno as the "Road to the James E. Roberts Memorial Bridge". Within Fresno, it's clearly the Deputy David G. Graves Memorial Freeway. That's what the traffic reports call it, at least.

mwb1848

In the Rio Grande Valley in South Texas, some freeway portions of US 83 were referred to as "Expressway 83". It's since been upgraded to Interstate 2. Not sure if locals have updated their vernacular.

Kniwt

I believe the usage might have arisen in part from Caltrans' use of just the word "Freeway" on so many signs in the area. They're sort of like Southern California signs for named freeways, except they don't have any names on them. So "168 Freeway" somehow got reversed into "Freeway 168." One example:



ACSCmapcollector

#15
Quote from: Kniwt on November 29, 2016, 12:25:27 AM
I believe the usage might have arisen in part from Caltrans' use of just the word "Freeway" on so many signs in the area. They're sort of like Southern California signs for named freeways, except they don't have any names on them. So "168 Freeway" somehow got reversed into "Freeway 168." One example:




That is where my ex-gf [NAME REDACTED] lives, in [CITY REDACTED].  That is about on my first visit over 12 years ago.


Post edited to remove unnecessary information.

ACSCmapcollector, you have been warned previously not to mention details (such as full name and location) about real-life people, especially people who are not part of this forum. Do not do this again. Additionally, your post with this detail did not contribute anything new to the topic being discussed in this thread, so it wasn't even necessary to reply in this thread... –Roadfro.



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