Next AASHTO meeting

[rschen7754]

When is the next meeting? http://route.transportation.org/Pages/CommitteeNoticesActionsandApprovals.aspx hasn't been updated since the October one.

[bob7374]

When is the next meeting? http://route.transportation.org/Pages/CommitteeNoticesActionsandApprovals.aspx hasn't been updated since the October one.

You spotted that too. From searching the AASHTO site I found that the Meeting is in Portland, ME, May 22-25. According to the agenda, link below, the US Route Numbering Committee is meeting the afternoon of the second day, May 23, at noon to be exact.
https://custom.cvent.com/17BFCB06592A4659A4A929E452988BF8/files/948f75a5b16c417da03b143a85ec0c27.pdf

[Rover_0]

I believe the meetings are going on, but I don't recall any of the minutes being posted yet.

[english si]

It's normally a couple of days.

[hbelkins]

I saw a photo today tweeted from the US Bike Routes account, retweeted by AASHTO, indicating they were reviewing the I-11 proposal.

[english si]

https://twitter.com/USBicycleRoutes/status/867058941758513152

[froggie]

Learned earlier this month (in inquiring about this week's meeting) that Marty Vitale, longtime secretary and administrative support for the Route Numbering committee, retired back in March.  I've followed up with who I think is her temporary replacement, but given the meetings this week will likely not get a response until Friday at the earliest.

[amroad17]

That looks like a job I would love to do.  Our group would be known as "The Deciders". 

I am not being sarcastic--I would love to do something like this.

[Rover_0]

I know it's Memorial Day, but is there anything new to report yet?

XT1585

[LM117]

As far as I know, nothing's been anounced yet. However, based on what I read from a local newspaper in North Carolina, there's a good possibility that NCDOT sent an application to AASHTO regarding US-70 in Goldsboro between both ends of US-70 Bypass.

From February 21:

http://www.newsargus.com/news/archives/2017/02/21/council_approves_tiger_grant/

During the regular meeting, the council approved:

* A N.C. Department of Transportation request to rename U.S. 70 to U.S. 70 Business and the existing U.S. 70 Business to Ash Street inside the city limits.

[J N Winkler]

Learned earlier this month (in inquiring about this week's meeting) that Marty Vitale, longtime secretary and administrative support for the Route Numbering committee, retired back in March.  I've followed up with who I think is her temporary replacement, but given the meetings this week will likely not get a response until Friday at the earliest.

At one point it was possible to sign up for the USRN Committee's email distribution list, which included not just committee members and people working for AASHTO member agencies but also mapmakers and members of the general public with an interest in route numbering.  I did so and have been receiving USRN materials as email attachments for about a decade.  Shortly before Ms. Vitale retired, however, there was a change in procedure to limit email distribution to people with AASHTO accounts (the same type of account that is used to order stuff from the AASHTO Bookstore) that are linked to email addresses belonging to a government agency or a private company working in the transportation field.  A Gmail address is not sufficient.

I think this stinks, and I would support lobbying efforts aimed at getting rid of this restriction, or otherwise maintaining the same access to USRN documentation we used to have.

[hbelkins]

At one point it was possible to sign up for the USRN Committee's email distribution list, which included not just committee members and people working for AASHTO member agencies but also mapmakers and members of the general public with an interest in route numbering.  I did so and have been receiving USRN materials as email attachments for about a decade.  Shortly before Ms. Vitale retired, however, there was a change in procedure to limit email distribution to people with AASHTO accounts (the same type of account that is used to order stuff from the AASHTO Bookstore) that are linked to email addresses belonging to a government agency or a private company working in the transportation field.  A Gmail address is not sufficient.

I think this stinks, and I would support lobbying efforts aimed at getting rid of this restriction, or otherwise maintaining the same access to USRN documentation we used to have.

I have one of those said AASHTO accounts, by virtue of being a member of AASHTO's Subcommittee on Transportation Communications. (TransComm). I'd be more than happy to sign up for such emails and to post their content here, if I could be educated on the procedure for doing so.

[Scott5114]

At one point it was possible to sign up for the USRN Committee's email distribution list, which included not just committee members and people working for AASHTO member agencies but also mapmakers and members of the general public with an interest in route numbering.  I did so and have been receiving USRN materials as email attachments for about a decade.  Shortly before Ms. Vitale retired, however, there was a change in procedure to limit email distribution to people with AASHTO accounts (the same type of account that is used to order stuff from the AASHTO Bookstore) that are linked to email addresses belonging to a government agency or a private company working in the transportation field.  A Gmail address is not sufficient.

I think this stinks, and I would support lobbying efforts aimed at getting rid of this restriction, or otherwise maintaining the same access to USRN documentation we used to have.

I have one of those said AASHTO accounts, by virtue of being a member of AASHTO's Subcommittee on Transportation Communications. (TransComm). I'd be more than happy to sign up for such emails and to post their content here, if I could be educated on the procedure for doing so.

You could just upload them to your website and link them here. Of course, that assumes there's nothing that would get you in trouble for "leaking" AASHTO materials.

[J N Winkler]

I have one of those said AASHTO accounts, by virtue of being a member of AASHTO's Subcommittee on Transportation Communications. (TransComm). I'd be more than happy to sign up for such emails and to post their content here, if I could be educated on the procedure for doing so.

Thank you very much for undertaking to do this.

The first part of the procedure, which you have already completed, is to set up an AASHTO account.  The second part is to send an email to the US Route Numbering committee secretary and ask to be added to the email distribution list.  I don't know who has replaced Marty Vitale, but apparently the secretary (whoever he or she is) can be reached through a role email address:  usroutes@aashto.org.

FWIW, here is the correspondence I had with Ms. Vitale shortly before she retired:

FYI:  I will be retiring March 1, 2017 and would like to set up a distribution list in our AASHTO database so that the person working with U.S. Route Numbering applications will have it ready and handy for them.  You are the ones that I do the work with to get these applications processed.  Please follow the instructions below and many thanks for helping me out.

Before I can add members to an AASHTO listing I first need for them to register by creating an AASHTO account.  I could not find an account registered in your name or email address.  In order to place you on a committee, and thus receive all correspondence from the committee, you must first register and create an AASHTO Account at the link below.  Please be sure to use your official work email and complete all data fields. Enter telephone numbers in the following format (123) 456-7890.

AASHTO Account Registration<http://register.transportation.org/Login.aspx?RedirURL=%2fdefault.aspx>

Please respond back to me when you have finished creating your AASHTO Account and I will add you to the USRN contact list.

If you believe you already have an AASHTO Account or have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you!

This is just to let you know that I have created an AASHTO account using my email address ([Gmail address, not listed here for spamproofing]), and would like to be added to the USRN notification list.

I would also like to wish you a happy and productive retirement.

Thank you for the best wishes.

I cannot use "@gmail.com" accounts as we only recognize government entities or private organizations/associations related to transportation.  Please register using a company/organization email address that I can add to the system.  Write back and let me know what it is and the address of the organization.

[Scott5114]

J.N.: Seems like depending on how badly you wanted to get on the list, one could probably create a perfunctory corporate-looking website and use the domain name associated with it to create an email address that redirects to their Gmail account. I doubt SCOURN really checks to see if the "companies" their members are working for are properly registered with the Secretary of State in their respective states.

I would offer the use of an @denexa.com email address, but if they did check, "Denexa Games LLC" is fairly obviously not transportation-related...

[kkt]

At one point it was possible to sign up for the USRN Committee's email distribution list, which included not just committee members and people working for AASHTO member agencies but also mapmakers and members of the general public with an interest in route numbering.  I did so and have been receiving USRN materials as email attachments for about a decade.  Shortly before Ms. Vitale retired, however, there was a change in procedure to limit email distribution to people with AASHTO accounts (the same type of account that is used to order stuff from the AASHTO Bookstore) that are linked to email addresses belonging to a government agency or a private company working in the transportation field.  A Gmail address is not sufficient.

I think this stinks, and I would support lobbying efforts aimed at getting rid of this restriction, or otherwise maintaining the same access to USRN documentation we used to have.

I agree.  This stinks.  There's no need for it to be secret, and if companies can get the information then individuals should be able to also.

[MikeTheActuary]

Anybody have experience writing FOIA requests?

[oscar]

Anybody have experience writing FOIA requests?

I've been at the receiving end of many. My agency had people really good at denying requests, but a nice informal inquiry often worked better if the stuff they wanted from me was releaseable (usually it wasn't).

Initial question is, who to send it to? AASHTO probably is not covered by the Federal or any state FOIA law, since it isn't part of any government even though most or all its members are government agencies or their representatives. Do you have in mind sending it to FHWA, or to a friendly state agency with access to the AASHTO info you want?

[MikeTheActuary]

Initial question is, who to send it to? AASHTO probably is not covered by the Federal or any state FOIA law, since it isn't part of any government even though most or all its members are government agencies or their representatives. Do you have in mind sending it to FHWA, or to a friendly state agency with access to the AASHTO info you want?

Honestly, I'm not sure.   I was just tossing the idea out there as a means of addressing future limited access to AASHTO information.

[J N Winkler]

J.N.: Seems like depending on how badly you wanted to get on the list, one could probably create a perfunctory corporate-looking website and use the domain name associated with it to create an email address that redirects to their Gmail account. I doubt SCOURN really checks to see if the "companies" their members are working for are properly registered with the Secretary of State in their respective states.

I would offer the use of an @denexa.com email address, but if they did check, "Denexa Games LLC" is fairly obviously not transportation-related...

What I actually should have done is to point out that in the past there was no requirement to be employed either by a state DOT or by a private firm involved in transportation to be on the USRN email list, and ask what had changed.

In any event, I have gone through the list-distributed emails I have received from Marty Vitale since 2006, and it looks like most of the attachments are available for download on the USRN meetings page:

http://route.transportation.org/Pages/Past-Meetings.aspx

However, it is still useful to be on the email list for heads-ups, like the following:

*  We had our meeting, and here are the attachments or the links that show what we decided

*  We are taking applications for route numbering changes, and here are the instructions you have to follow (e.g. if you want to relocate a US route to a new alignment and keep the old one as a business route, submit one application to move the unbannered route and another to establish a new business route)

*  Here is this new page where we are tracking FHWA's Interstate decisions . . .

Since there does not appear (at this point) to be an intention to work in secret, what we have lost are the intangible benefits of being in the loop by having notifications pushed out to us versus relying on WatchThatPage.com or occasional website visits to remain apprised of new documentation.

The whole faff and bother with asking people to get AASHTO accounts seems to have been oriented at populating this list:

http://route.transportation.org/Pages/DOT-Contacts-(US,-USBR,-Maps,-Others).aspx

It is all state DOT employees at their official email addresses, except for three members of the Adventure Cycling Association and one employee of a company called Cogent that does not appear to have a website linked to its email domain (unlike, say, Denexa Games).  It does not include longstanding members of the roadgeek community like Chris Bessert and Rich Carlson, both of whom have also been copied on list emails (Ms. Vitale did not always use Bcc: to hide addresses).

Anybody have experience writing FOIA requests?

I have some, but only at the state level.  My experience is more or less the counterpart to Oscar's--it is easier to get the records you want as an informal courtesy than to go through a formal process where someone (generally a designated records custodian rather than the person who actually works with the records on a daily basis) has to sit down with the request, check that the records involved are releasable, and decide how much to charge for providing them (charges for access are used quite effectively by many states to squelch freedom of information).  Nine-tenths of the effort involved in preparing a FOIA request is determining exactly what kinds of records you want, looking up the relevant state statute to verify their releasability, and double-checking that they are not otherwise available.

Randy Hersh was a much heavier user of open-records laws than I was and at times ran into egregious misbehavior, e.g. Utah DOT wanting to charge him $200+ for contract award sheets that they had put on their website in PDF format and then taken down after a year.

Like Oscar, I don't think AASHTO is directly subject to any open-records laws, but any correspondence that AASHTO has with a member agency is in theory retrievable through an open records request to that agency.  AASHTO also has an open-door policy for state DOT and FHWA representatives.

[bulldog1979]

We've also created the start of a database on Wikipedia of AASHTO's committee minutes/reports that were released to the public in electronic format a few years ago. Since their website has everything from 1989 on, we link to those, but everything before that wasn't covered by the requisite copyright notices, placing them all in the public domain. We extracted the various scans that were pasted into an Excel spreadsheet and created separate PDFs of each document hosted on Wikimedia Commons. Ideally, if AASHTO continues to release documents older than 1967, we'd expand the collection.

[Highway63]

That looks like a job I would love to do.  Our group would be known as "The Deciders". 

I am not being sarcastic--I would love to do something like this.

And we'd be better at getting the states to follow the rules too.

[rickmastfan67]

That looks like a job I would love to do.  Our group would be known as "The Deciders". 

I am not being sarcastic--I would love to do something like this.

And we'd be better at getting the states to follow the rules too.

Yep!

[sparker]

That looks like a job I would love to do.  Our group would be known as "The Deciders". 

I am not being sarcastic--I would love to do something like this.

And we'd be better at getting the states to follow the rules too.

Yep!

Maybe we can collectively convince the posters who are DOT employees to put in applications (or start down the road of whatever process is required) for membership/inclusion on this committee (hell, if I were a DOT employee, I'd jump at the opportunity).  It's possible only agency directors or their immediate subordinates would be considered (the DOT'ers among us should have some idea about that); probably why mistakes and miscues happen (layers removed from ground-level observation).  Just a thought!

[hbelkins]

That looks like a job I would love to do.  Our group would be known as "The Deciders". 

I am not being sarcastic--I would love to do something like this.

And we'd be better at getting the states to follow the rules too.

Yep!

Maybe we can collectively convince the posters who are DOT employees to put in applications (or start down the road of whatever process is required) for membership/inclusion on this committee (hell, if I were a DOT employee, I'd jump at the opportunity).  It's possible only agency directors or their immediate subordinates would be considered (the DOT'ers among us should have some idea about that); probably why mistakes and miscues happen (layers removed from ground-level observation).  Just a thought!

I'd say that's WAAAAAY above the pay grade of any DOT employees who are here.