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Phoenix Area Loops

Started by OCGuy81, May 04, 2012, 10:01:16 AM

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agentsteel53

I had misremembered - 60 actually exits off itself; 10 just has the "freeway route number changes angles at 90 degrees, while another freeway continues geographically forward".

that said, having I-10 exit due south to leave town heading logically east is also pretty silly.

what land wasn't available to buy when I-10 was being implemented?  I'm imagining the Phoenix of the early 1960s as being a whole lot of nothing with an unusual quantity of US routes multiplexed through it.
live from sunny San Diego.

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TheStranger

Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 17, 2012, 02:21:51 PM
I had misremembered - 60 actually exits off itself; 10 just has the "freeway route number changes angles at 90 degrees, while another freeway continues geographically forward".

that said, having I-10 exit due south to leave town heading logically east is also pretty silly.

On the 1967 Rand McNally Texaco atlas, I recall I-10 was originally proposed to intersect I-17 only once - where the Durango Curve is now - with no downtown freeway marked.  (Was the downtown freeway - what is now the I-10 between the two I-17 junctions - the proposed I-410?)
Chris Sampang

agentsteel53

almost.

from kurumi's page, with respect to 410:

QuoteInterstate 410 was added to Arizona's system on Dec. 13, 1968, as part of the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1968. [6note]. It has appeared on at least one map (1970 Phoenix city map, by Gousha). It was even signed for awhile in the early 1970s, but only on the approach from I-10 (starting in August 1971). On the short freeway itself (extending to Buckeye Road), there were no I-410 signs.

The north-south portion, which includes the Buckeye Road interchange, was earlier called I-510, a number approved on Nov. 10, 1958. This was signed I-510 for a while.

I would love to see a 510 shield.  the 410 was likely signed only on overheads.

live from sunny San Diego.

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jake@aaroads.com

OCGuy81

I-410 would make a lot more sense than the current I-17 routing.  Ideally, I-17 would end at the junction with I-10, and the segment that skirts the south end of downtown could be I-410.  Short segment, seems better off as a 3di, IMO.

Compulov

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 18, 2012, 09:53:22 AM
I-410 would make a lot more sense than the current I-17 routing.  Ideally, I-17 would end at the junction with I-10, and the segment that skirts the south end of downtown could be I-410.  Short segment, seems better off as a 3di, IMO.

Any reason they even *need* an Interstate designation on that section of highway? It's ugly given that it... gets on a freeway, merges with another freeway, then diverges from that freeway, but US-60 alone would be sufficient, especially since it has its own very nice freeway a few miles away. Giving it another Interstate designation seems to just create yet another duplex where one doesn't need to exist. I suppose it would let traffic know that it's an alternate route, but who in the general public knows that an even number means that anyway?

andy3175

Compulov ... your post gets to the heart of some controversy in the road community. Should a freeway that has been built to Interstate standards be automatically granted an Interstate highway designation, or should it remain as a U.S. or state route? People here have argued this question both ways multiple times, and there is no easy answer (oftentimes, the question of whether a freeway is an Interstate or not ties back to the funding that built the highway in the first place). Given that this road was likely  built with federal Interstate highway funds (unlike the Phoenix loops), I would think that any proposal here would likely keep the I-17 section within the Interstate Highway System, either as I-17 or some derivative I-x10 or I-x17 designation. It is difficult to see how the designation change would be any more effective than the current situation, since route numbers would change at the western 10/17 stack, and currently the "through" road through that stack keeps its number.

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Andy
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Alps

Given that there's no more Federal 90/10 for the Interstate designation alone, I don't see it needing to be sought for every freeway. It's up to the philosophy of the state. Arizona clearly feels that its loops and links don't need the shield to be known as freeways, whereas North Carolina clearly does. In truth, there's probably a happy medium, maybe along the lines of what NJ has.

OCGuy81

QuoteAny reason they even *need* an Interstate designation on that section of highway? It's ugly given that it... gets on a freeway, merges with another freeway, then diverges from that freeway, but US-60 alone would be sufficient, especially since it has its own very nice freeway a few miles away. Giving it another Interstate designation seems to just create yet another duplex where one doesn't need to exist. I suppose it would let traffic know that it's an alternate route, but who in the general public knows that an even number means that anyway?

Valid point.  It seems the general consensus of this community that any freeway meeting the standards (myself included in many posts, I'll admit) should be rewarded with a nice blue Interstate shield.

In this case, US 60 WOULD make sense as it continues east via the Superstition Freeway.  No needless duplex needed.

On that note, the Superstition Freeway was originally signed as AZ 360, correct?  Is this a situation where the feds too over from the state and re-branded it 60?

NE2

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 20, 2012, 09:53:30 PM
QuoteAny reason they even *need* an Interstate designation on that section of highway? It's ugly given that it... gets on a freeway, merges with another freeway, then diverges from that freeway, but US-60 alone would be sufficient, especially since it has its own very nice freeway a few miles away. Giving it another Interstate designation seems to just create yet another duplex where one doesn't need to exist. I suppose it would let traffic know that it's an alternate route, but who in the general public knows that an even number means that anyway?

Valid point.  It seems the general consensus of this community that any freeway meeting the standards (myself included in many posts, I'll admit) should be rewarded with a nice blue Interstate shield.
hahahahahahahahahaha

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 20, 2012, 09:53:30 PM
On that note, the Superstition Freeway was originally signed as AZ 360, correct?  Is this a situation where the feds too over from the state and re-branded it 60?
Uh no. The state applied to AASHTO to reroute US 60 and changed the signs. The feds were not involved.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

OCGuy81

Thank you for clarifying NE2.  Would that stretch of freeway be a good I-366 segment? :-)

blawp

#60
i-10 should be duplexed with i-19 and az 143 should be i-19 and the superstition freeway should be i-910 lol

kurumi

AZ 202 should be a continuation of I-10. The old I-10 between Phoenix and Jacksonville becomes a continuation of I-17.

TXDOT: "That's nearly 1,000 miles of freeway we'd have to change signs for. And maps. And business cards and billboards and websites and ads and... Why the hell do you think we'd agree to something like that?"

Roadgeeks: "It gets rid of a weird bump in Phoenix; you see where 10 goes around and hits 17 again?"

TXDOT: "You've got a point; that's mighty ugly right there. Okay. We're on board."
My first SF/horror short story collection is available: "Young Man, Open Your Winter Eye"

national highway 1

Quote from: blawp on May 21, 2012, 01:17:58 AM
i-10 should be duplexed with i-19 and az 143 should be i-19 and the superstition freeway should be i-910 lol
What would be the point of that? Are you a troll or something?
"Set up road signs; put up guideposts. Take note of the highway, the road that you take." Jeremiah 31:21

kphoger

Quote from: national highway 1 on May 21, 2012, 04:35:33 AM
Quote from: blawp on May 21, 2012, 01:17:58 AM
i-10 should be duplexed with i-19 and az 143 should be i-19 and the superstition freeway should be i-910 lol
What would be the point of that? Are you a troll or something?

Perhaps you missed the 'lol' at the end . . . ? . .
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
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Male pronouns, please.

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Alps

Quote from: blawp on May 21, 2012, 01:17:58 AM
i-10 should be duplexed with i-19 and az 143 should be i-19 and the superstition freeway should be i-910 lol
Keep fictional ideas in Fictional Highways. Next rule you violate is a temporary ban. Reread our rules if you're unsure.

FreewayDan

I found some old discussion threads back from the late-1990s describing the history of Phoenix's Freeways.  This was from misc.transport.road. All three of the Loop freeways were numbered differently.  For example on Loop 101, the segment west of I-17 (Agua Fria Freeay) was to have been SR 417.

3 Digit Interstates and Phoenix Freeways:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/browse_thread/thread/386d58aed1327cb3/c6c858fd8a0d52c5?lnk=gst&q=Phoenix+Freeway#c6c858fd8a0d52c5
More on Phoenix Freeway System History, etc.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/browse_thread/thread/ded6be7ee249eb65/c2e1eb944eb905b6
Phoenix Freeway Numbering (Before 1986 on Proposed Freeways)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/browse_thread/thread/d179b6ddd6266558/05f37033735f5f1c?lnk=gst&q=Phoenix+Freeway#05f37033735f5f1c
LEFT ON GREEN
ARROW ONLY

Anthony_JK

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 20, 2012, 09:53:30 PM
QuoteAny reason they even *need* an Interstate designation on that section of highway? It's ugly given that it... gets on a freeway, merges with another freeway, then diverges from that freeway, but US-60 alone would be sufficient, especially since it has its own very nice freeway a few miles away. Giving it another Interstate designation seems to just create yet another duplex where one doesn't need to exist. I suppose it would let traffic know that it's an alternate route, but who in the general public knows that an even number means that anyway?

Valid point.  It seems the general consensus of this community that any freeway meeting the standards (myself included in many posts, I'll admit) should be rewarded with a nice blue Interstate shield.

In this case, US 60 WOULD make sense as it continues east via the Superstition Freeway.  No needless duplex needed.

On that note, the Superstition Freeway was originally signed as AZ 360, correct?  Is this a situation where the feds too over from the state and re-branded it 60?

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 20, 2012, 09:53:30 PM
QuoteAny reason they even *need* an Interstate designation on that section of highway? It's ugly given that it... gets on a freeway, merges with another freeway, then diverges from that freeway, but US-60 alone would be sufficient, especially since it has its own very nice freeway a few miles away. Giving it another Interstate designation seems to just create yet another duplex where one doesn't need to exist. I suppose it would let traffic know that it's an alternate route, but who in the general public knows that an even number means that anyway?

Valid point.  It seems the general consensus of this community that any freeway meeting the standards (myself included in many posts, I'll admit) should be rewarded with a nice blue Interstate shield.

Not in my consensus, it doesn't. Just because you have a nice freeway does NOT automatically qualify it for a blue shield. If the state or the locals put forth the majority of the funds to build it, it should be their right to decide if it deserves to remain a state or US highway or whether to go to the Feds and apply for Interstate mileage. Not all freeways deserve to have Interstate shields, and some freeways with Interstate shields don't really deserve them to begin with.

Let Phoenix have their state loops...they built them, they deserve to name them.

swbrotha100

The Loop freeways in Phoenix are pretty good. In some cases, better than some "interstate" highways in other states. The southern section of Loop 303 is under construction now, and most of it should be full freeway by the end of 2013 or early 2014. The only thing I could ask for is to figure out a way to build the South Mountain section of Loop 202.

Sonic99

Not sure what your guys' opinion on using old/new threads here, other forums prefer you to bump an old thread than start a new one, hence my bump.

I will be coming down to the Valley for the NASCAR weekend in a couple weeks and was considering checking out the 303 from I-17 all the way to I-10. Can a local give me an idea on what stage the construction is in? ADOT's website is terribly lacking in keeping current info and photos up.
If you used to draw freeways on your homework and got reprimanded by your Senior English teacher for doing so, you might be a road geek!

corco

I was on 303 from I-10 to Bell Rd a couple weeks ago- the speed limit is down to 25 or 35 for almost the entire length, and the carriageways are under construction. A couple overpasses are done, and in a couple places the route clearly goes up along what will be the ramp, and the road is on an entirely new alignment from McDowell to Indian School.

If your interest is in speed, definitely just take 101 down- if it's in seeing dust and construction, 303 is fine. The access from 303 to I-10 is weird now though- you have to go down McDowell east to the next exit - there's no way to get from 303 south onto Cotton Lane south at this point. The I-10/303/Cotton interchange is getting pretty impressive to look at, though.


From I-17 to Happy Valley it's all freeway now.

Alex

Quote from: Sonic99 on October 31, 2012, 01:43:42 AM
Not sure what your guys' opinion on using old/new threads here, other forums prefer you to bump an old thread than start a new one, hence my bump.


If it is relevant to a previous topic, by all means you are welcome to bump it. Given that there were no other topics on the Loop Freeways, posting here was good.

swbrotha100

#71
ADOT is on a few sites besides their official website.

On YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ArizonaDOT
On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/AZDOT
On Twitter: https://twitter.com/ArizonaDOT

They also have a blog: http://adotblog.blogspot.com/

On the ADOT blog, one of the most recent links regarding Loop 303 has some construction photos. By now traffic is on the future northbound lanes between Peoria Ave and Grand Ave (US 60). The future NB on-ramps and off-ramps have two-way traffic to connect to the various cross streets.

Around where the I-10/Loop 303 interchange is being built, half diamonds connect I-10 to Sarival Ave (EB entrance/WB exit) and Citrus Rd (WB entrance/EB exit). There will be frontage roads to connect to Cotton Ln when this area is redone, sometime around 2014.

Stephane Dumas


Sonic99

Something else I'm curious about. I've heard that the 303/I-10 interchange will be the largest in AZ, larger than The Stack. Where could I find drawings or illustrations on how the interchange is being designed and what it will look like?
If you used to draw freeways on your homework and got reprimanded by your Senior English teacher for doing so, you might be a road geek!

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".



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