Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

[Bobby5280]

Since certain politicians are using links between military bases as a means of selling I-14 projects why not try the same thing with I-11?

There is a number of military installations in Nevada. Some of them would be along or near what could be the I-11 corridor (Nellis AFB, Creech AFB, Hawthorne Army Depot, Reno-Tahoe AFB, Fallon Station NAS). Sierra Army Depot is North of Reno just across the border into California. Klamath Falls, OR shares its airport with Kingsley Field AFB.

Let's not forget about installations in Arizona. Luke AFB is near Phoenix. Gila Bend has an Air Force auxiliary field. Davis-Monthan AFB is in Tucson. There's a huge Air Force range in Southern AZ.

[sparker]

Since certain politicians are using links between military bases as a means of selling I-14 projects why not try the same thing with I-11?

There is a number of military installations in Nevada. Some of them would be along or near what could be the I-11 corridor (Nellis AFB, Creech AFB, Hawthorne Army Depot, Reno-Tahoe AFB, Fallon Station NAS). Sierra Army Depot is North of Reno just across the border into California. Klamath Falls, OR shares its airport with Kingsley Field AFB.

Let's not forget about installations in Arizona. Luke AFB is near Phoenix. Gila Bend has an Air Force auxiliary field. Davis-Monthan AFB is in Tucson. There's a huge Air Force range in Southern AZ.

The concept of stringing together military installations via a new Interstate corridor does not resonate in the "blue state" West as it does in TX and other regions along the Gulf.  That being said, it might just be an argument at the national level, especially with this iteration of Congress. 

An aside:  if indeed a I-11 route selection includes a segment from the Susanville-Johnstonville area to Klamath Falls, an alignment "cutting the US 395 corner" more or less along county A3 and using the combination of US 395 and CA 299 via Alturas might be somewhat more conducive to development of a freeway than one staying along CA 139 north of Susanville, as the latter would require skirting Eagle Lake as well as difficult territory north of there -- plus having to surmount Adin Summit on the 139/299 multiplex.  While US 395 is somewhat hilly, it has only one obstacle, the "Peanut" summit near Likely, where the road (and the old SP Modoc rail line as well) exited the Pit River watershed into the high desert.  But overall, construction along the 395/299 combination would likely pose fewer issues than that along CA 139 south of CA 299.  From CA 299 north to Klamath Falls is pretty much a straight shot through gently rolling hills and flat farmland and should pose few problems save placating the agricultural interests in that area (horseradish and sugar beets being the primary cash crops up there).   

[nexus73]

Today I am thinking that US 95 north of Vegas be given the US 395 freeway/expressway treatment, then finish off US 395 itself to the same standards from SoCal to Reno.  That covers the SW section of the US being connected.

In Oregon with a start at Weed CA, give US 97 the 395 treatment to Madras, then to connect with PDX, do the same for US 26.  There's the I-5 alternative.

There really is not enough traffic to demand an I-11 north of Vegas unless one wants to spend the extra it takes to bring US 95 up to Interstate standards, thus the idea of simply going with the 395 setup, which should handle all traffic between Vegas and Reno for some decades, with metro area upgrades performed as those cities expand.

Rick

[Mark68]

If there were to be a possible I-11 north of Reno, I could see it along the US 395 corridor toward Susanville, cutting the corner south of Susanville (maybe Janesville-Standish to parallel 395 at a more gradual angle than 395 takes from CA 36 east). Then it would follow 395 north to around Likely (just north of the hills) and cut NW to catch CA 139 at Canby. Then it would follow CA 139 then OR 39 to Klamath Falls, then US 97 through Bend to north of Madras, then either follow US 197 straight north to The Dalles or NNE to Biggs Jct. Either of these points would be on I-84, so some traffic would go through the Gorge to Portland, some would head north to Yakima (via US 97), some would head east to I-82, then to the Tri-Cities and Spokane, and some would continue east on I-84 to Pendleton and Boise.

It would be a feeder route between Reno and the Pacific Northwest, and a (relatively) quick route and all-weather route from Seattle to Reno (depending on Snoqualmie Pass, of course). It would serve the growing city of Bend and some other small cities in Klamath Falls, Alturas (via US 395) and Susanville (via CA 36). This would be similar to I-70 in Utah...not necessary to serve local populations, but a good long-distance feeder route between far-flung metro areas (Seattle/Tacoma/Portland and Reno/Las Vegas on I-11, Denver and Salt Lake/Las Vegas on I-70).

[sparker]

If there were to be a possible I-11 north of Reno, I could see it along the US 395 corridor toward Susanville, cutting the corner south of Susanville (maybe Janesville-Standish to parallel 395 at a more gradual angle than 395 takes from CA 36 east). Then it would follow 395 north to around Likely (just north of the hills) and cut NW to catch CA 139 at Canby. Then it would follow CA 139 then OR 39 to Klamath Falls, then US 97 through Bend to north of Madras, then either follow US 197 straight north to The Dalles or NNE to Biggs Jct. Either of these points would be on I-84, so some traffic would go through the Gorge to Portland, some would head north to Yakima (via US 97), some would head east to I-82, then to the Tri-Cities and Spokane, and some would continue east on I-84 to Pendleton and Boise.

It would be a feeder route between Reno and the Pacific Northwest, and a (relatively) quick route and all-weather route from Seattle to Reno (depending on Snoqualmie Pass, of course). It would serve the growing city of Bend and some other small cities in Klamath Falls, Alturas (via US 395) and Susanville (via CA 36). This would be similar to I-70 in Utah...not necessary to serve local populations, but a good long-distance feeder route between far-flung metro areas (Seattle/Tacoma/Portland and Reno/Las Vegas on I-11, Denver and Salt Lake/Las Vegas on I-70).

NE CA topography is tricky -- what you see on a map (and even G.E.) can be deceiving.  The railroads mapped out the most viable low-grade routes (both the old SP Modoc line and the former WP/now BNSF "Inland Gateway" feeder from the Feather River watershed north to Klamath Falls) a long time ago, and the highways tended to follow them (except for the portion of the BNSF from CA 44 north to CA 299 at Bieber, which follows a convoluted route in order to maintain a low gradient, with no through roads following the tracks).  There's a series of E-W ridges between the Feather and Pit River watersheds that need to be surmounted; US 395 and the old Modoc line took the most benign of these, while CA 139 maintains an up-and-down ridge-hopping profile that isn't too conducive to construction of a relatively high-speed freeway alignment.  Thus, as I iterated in a couple of previous posts, sticking to the 395/299/139 alignment (with easily-deployed cutoffs where feasible) is likely the most efficient pathway from Reno to Klamath Falls. 

I'll stick to my revised concept (thanks, Bobby 5280, for the basic idea) of taking any such Klamath Falls extension west more or less along OR 140 to a terminus at I-5 near Medford.  This will bypass the bidirectional slog that is Siskiyou Summit, while providing a diverging facility to the southeast, serving Reno and Vegas en route to Phoenix -- more or less the function of I-85 vis-à-vis I-95 on the East Coast (of course, with far fewer population centers than the Piedmont).  And this would allow a separately considered prospective US 97-based facility, if deployed along that full route from I-5 at Weed, CA north to I-84, several connectivity options -- toward southward I-5 or southeast I-11 and vice-versa, with Klamath Falls as the crux.  I've already outlined the rationale -- topographic and political -- for this particular concept in previous posts.  The idea here is to eventually serve as many regional and interregional traffic needs as possible with feasibly deployed facilities.   

[kkt]

I've been along several of those roads in the last few years and never seen any reason they should be freeways.  Maybe US 97 should have more 4-lane stretches, but certainly doesn't need limited access.  It would be right up there with I-15 north of Helena for a useless waste of concrete.  Putting thick red lines where there weren't any before may feel like we're accomplishing something, but a better use of actual construction money would be additional lanes and geometric improvements in congested areas.  I-5, CA 99.  Not new freeway routes.

[compdude787]

I've been along several of those roads in the last few years and never seen any reason they should be freeways.  Maybe US 97 should have more 4-lane stretches, but certainly doesn't need limited access.  It would be right up there with I-15 north of Helena for a useless waste of concrete.  Putting thick red lines where there weren't any before may feel like we're accomplishing something, but a better use of actual construction money would be additional lanes and geometric improvements in congested areas.  I-5, CA 99.  Not new freeway routes.

Agreed. I really have never understood the point of extending I-11 north of Reno since there aren't really any major cities (or even lots of small towns) that it could connect to.

[sparker]

I've been along several of those roads in the last few years and never seen any reason they should be freeways.  Maybe US 97 should have more 4-lane stretches, but certainly doesn't need limited access.  It would be right up there with I-15 north of Helena for a useless waste of concrete.  Putting thick red lines where there weren't any before may feel like we're accomplishing something, but a better use of actual construction money would be additional lanes and geometric improvements in congested areas.  I-5, CA 99.  Not new freeway routes.

Agreed. I really have never understood the point of extending I-11 north of Reno since there aren't really any major cities (or even lots of small towns) that it could connect to.

Pretty much all the plans for any I-11 extension north of I-80 can be characterized as regional interests flexing their political muscles in an attempt to attract development to their various areas.  When I first heard of the original concept of simply taking it straight up US 395 through Oregon -- via one of the least populated areas of the state -- I had a bit of a WTF reaction.  That response was backtracked to "yeah, right!" when a shunt over to the Bend area was proposed as an alternative.  But I can see how folks from central-inland Oregon might want an primary interregional arterial passing through their region; while the area's growing, it remains functionally isolated from not only the more populated areas to the west but also from most of the rest of the western U.S.  Since the Bend-Redmond-Prineville-Madras metro area sits at about 225K in terms of population right now, it's marginal as to whether that warrants an Interstate-grade connector to the outside world.  And it's unlikely that ODOT, with its internal bent toward more urban matters, would consider such a facility connecting it to PDX or anywhere in the Willamette Valley (the environmental uproar would be deafening!).  As I've iterated before, a corridor straight up US 97 (and/or US 197 at the north end) is the most politically feasible within the state -- more a case of "we don't have to look at it, so let 'em have their road".  This has resulted in the Bend bypass facility and the freeway south of town being deployed.  At this point, I would have to concur that an Interstate facility along US 97 is decades away at best.  What would be an interim (and upgradeable in the future if warranted) possibility would be a "Avenue of the Saints" type of solution deployed, let's say, between the US 97/OR 31 junction at the south end and the north end of Madras at the north:  a 4-lane expressway with freeway segments through/around the towns and more densely populated areas.  It wouldn't be a solution to the regional connectivity issue, but it would provide a more efficient means of egress within the greater Bend area (and would likely, at least for the near term, mute much of the push for a full Interstate facility along US 97). 

All that being said, I'd be willing to wager that if I-11 ever reaches northern Nevada, the next "leg" will aim at Boise rather than central Oregon; that area's population is rapidly approaching 1M -- with a strong corporate presence in a number of fields -- and its political & economic "clout" is likely to outstrip anything from competing regions in a much more timely fashion.  I don't think I'll see an Interstate in Bend within my own lifetime! 

[Henry]

Sure, and then from Boise you could just hop onto I-84 west to Portland.

[doorknob60]

Sure, and then from Boise you could just hop onto I-84 west to Portland.

I don't think anyone traveling from Reno to Portland or Seattle would ever take a route through Winnemucca and Boise/Nampa, even if it's all freeway (except weather related reasons, but the Blue Mountains are no cake walk in the winter, or "just to take the long way"). It's over 150 miles longer to Seattle (and more like 250 to Portland) than going through Klamath Falls and taking OR-58 to hit I-5.

Now from Las Vegas, it's a bit more plausible, assuming proposed I-11 stays farther to the east (no farther than Fallon; a freeway spur from I-11 near Fallon to I-80 could be built to serve Reno-Vegas traffic). The Boise option does seem more plausible than going through Central Oregon though (any freeway there should be straight north up US-97 from Weed). But it wouldn't be useful for Reno to Portland traffic. Even then though, from Winnemucca to Portland, it's still 130 miles shorter to go through Burns and Prineville or Bend (which is largely easy 65-70 MPH highway, except US-26 over the Cascades) than to take US-95 to I-84.

[sparker]

Sure, and then from Boise you could just hop onto I-84 west to Portland.

I don't think serving Portland would even be on the radar of anyone suggesting or planning a I-11 (or whatever) extension up US 95 toward the Boise area; the principal purpose here would be to provide a southern outlet for the growing Treasure Valley region. 

[The Ghostbuster]

Does Interstate 11 beyond Interstate 15 really need to be an Interstate highway? How much traffic uses the US 95 corridor between Las Vegas and Interstate 80 near Fallon, anyway?

[sparker]

Does Interstate 11 beyond Interstate 15 really need to be an Interstate highway? How much traffic uses the US 95 corridor between Las Vegas and Interstate 80 near Fallon, anyway?

The Vegas-Reno I-11 corridor has always been presented more as a speculative regional server than something to address current traffic levels.  The fact that an outsized portion of that admittedly sparse traffic is commercial trucks has fueled the fire somewhat; the 2015 re-designation of HPC 68 (primarily US 95 with other clustered routes) as future I-11 has added additional fuel.  My comments on any extension beyond I-80 also pertain to this segment as well -- except for the fact that it's gotten formal recognition (albeit without any funding whatsoever); the corridor is, for better or worse, a manifestation of state and regional politics. 

But I'll stand by my notion that any near-term funding should be to place (upgradeable) bypasses around the larger towns along US 95, even if they're only an enhanced 2-lane facility.  That'd do a lot to increase the efficiency of the route, even if Interstate status is a long, long way off!   

[kdk]

Having driven this route over the past weekend, from Reno to Vegas, then later down to Phoenix my thoughts have changed to that I-11 from Vegas to Reno is needed, or at least needs to get started.

The I-80 portion from Reno to Fernley is fine, but getting through Fernley and the roundabouts is problematic, there is already a lot of truck traffic that causes backups here, even for a weekend.  Fernley to Fallon is fine with the upgraded divided Alt 50, but again once you get into Fallon with the slow speed limits and stoplights, the truck traffic was problematic and I would imagine the locals are negatively affected by this- kind of reminds me of US 93 through Wickenburg  AZ before the bypass where truck traffic was backing up the downtown enough where it was a safety issue.

South of Fallon to Walker Lake is still fine at 2 lanes for now, but getting around Walker Lake with the curves and lower speed limits, and the inability to pass slow traffic for a long stretch causes traffic to bunch up quite a bit for miles.  A four lane stretch on the east side of the lake would alleviate that, and keep the recreation area better served. 

Hawthorne at least has sort of a bypass around it which helps.  Another big issue are these small towns, specifically the ones that have a population of around 50 like Schurz, Luning, Mina.  There are no services or seem to be any extra traffic in these places, but the speed limit drops to 25 through them.  A short road around them would be easy and help traffic flow.  Hawthorne did seem to have a lot of vehicles bunched up coming into town all in a group while I was driving out, likely due to the inability to pass on the way in for several miles.

I could certainly see that a route several miles west of Tonopah would be a likely route since that area seems flat and Tonopah is elevated and out of the way.  Only thing is Tonopah now has the only services on a stretch of over 200 miles now, not even a gas station open between Beatty and Hawthorne with the exception of those in Tonopah- even Goldfield no longer has one, so Tonopah would be kept as a Business 11 route.  (there are even signs warning of no gas for 110 miles, etc put up by NVDOT)

Goldfield is interesting to drive through but that's the longest stretch of 25 MPH limits along this route and really slows things down.  A route around it would help, although it may kill off what's left hanging on in this town- which seemed to be a small restaurant and a gift shop that had a "business for sale" sign on it.  Pretty sad there, town just felt to be in decline.

Beatty seems to be booming though with tourist traffic, by far the most activity beyond Fallon.  Seems to be because of being the Death Valley gateway. 

From Beatty to Mercury there is certainly a need for a full freeway, or at least a divided, limited access highway today.  The 2 line highway there was very crowded, and slow. Way too much traffic and no opportunities to pass and traffic seemed to "bunch up" here.  I'm assuming it was Las Vegas-Death Valley traffic?  Was stuck at slow speeds until where it opened up to four lanes near Mercury for the rest of the way into Las Vegas.  The four lane section seemed to have traffic levels at similar counts to 93 between Las Vegas and Kingman.  Worked fine as a 4 lane divided route but could be easily converted to a full freeway.

So yes, some of these areas have traffic that's a little light but driving it made it seem more plausible for upgrades.  Even on the light traffic areas there were times where it took me a while to pass a truck just because of the number of vehicles on the other side.  Another thing is there aren't any extra right side passing lanes along this route with the exception of truck climbing lanes into and out of Tonopah. 

[Bobby5280]

I wonder how many head-on collisions occur along the 2-lane portions of this route. The issue could be justification enough to four lane more stretches of the road and then add Texas-style passing lanes on other parts.

[sparker]

A friend who splits his time between San Jose and Nevada recently moved his NV residence from Henderson to Reno because his GF got a new job there.  Thus he was shuttling up and down US 95 for several weekends securing their new residence and moving household goods up in advance of the actual move.  Since he's quite familiar with US 95, I asked him to evaluate the traffic levels.  After about 3 round trips, he reported that he'd never seen more traffic using the route in his 20-odd years of regular usage of the highway than on these trips.  He opined that in his calculation about a third were large trucks.  In particular he noticed that congestion in and around Fallon was considerably higher than in previous trips -- and that traffic levels on Alternate 50/95 between there and Fernley were similar to that on I-80 west toward Reno. 

I realize this is simply an anecdotal snapshot of this route -- but it bolsters what I've personally seen as of late with many CA connecting corridors, even outside commute zones -- there's just a hell of a lot more traffic -- general and commercial -- out there than there was even 10 years ago.  In & of itself that may not be a situation that would fully warrant deploying 4 lanes of I-11 along the US 95 corridor -- but by these accounts it seem to be heading in that direction.     

[kkt]

Nevada should work on reserving rights-of-way through Fallon for bypass US 95 and US 50, whether they're called I-11 or not.

[sparker]

Nevada should work on reserving rights-of-way through Fallon for bypass US 95 and US 50, whether they're called I-11 or not.

Fully agree -- and the sooner the better.   Fallon has become somewhat of a "mecca" for retirees due to its relatively benign climate as well as its proximity to Reno and Carson City for commercial purposes.  Much of the area west of town is being developed into community clusters, most copies of longstanding senior complexes such as Del Webb's Sun City and Lincoln (CA) developments.  The most efficient I-11 routing would be west of town; unfortunately, that's where most of the housing additions are being sited (flatter land).  But at this point I don't expect NDOT to be ready to begin purchasing land -- but setting corridors space aside is another thing.  There will probably be developer backlash about this, but it needs to be done sooner than later.  With the increased traffic in the area (see my prior post above -- plus the traffic generated by the new-arrival residents) even a "placeholder" facility like a 2-lane expressway would be sufficient for the present -- and enough easement could be preserved to make the process of future expansion relatively simple.

[Bobby5280]

I just wish there was a more direct path, practical and possible, between Carson City and Las Vegas. Between all the rows of mountains and certain small towns (like Tonopah) that would dry up and die if bypassed it would be very costly and quite an engineering achievement to build a road that spanned between Las Vegas and the Reno-Carson City area directly. Fallon is 60 miles East of Reno and Carson City.

[sparker]

I just wish there was a more direct path, practical and possible, between Carson City and Las Vegas. Between all the rows of mountains and certain small towns (like Tonopah) that would dry up and die if bypassed it would be very costly and quite an engineering achievement to build a road that spanned between Las Vegas and the Reno-Carson City area directly. Fallon is 60 miles East of Reno and Carson City.

The mountains east and southeast of Carson City are not terribly conducive to E-W road corridors -- which is why there are none to this day.  US 50 takes the only practical path NE from CC; the next feasible route to the south is NV 208, which "backtracks" up to Yerington -- and that wouldn't make a terribly efficient corridor.  Unless one wanted to snake the corridor along US 50 just to serve Carson City, the more optimal route intersects I-80 near Fernley.  By the time plans for I-11 are finalized, Fallon and environs will likely have 60K+ residents; it would be difficult to imagine the I-11 corridor not in some way serving that city.  Blame Mother Nature for all the problems in the vicinity with the plethora of towering N-S oriented mountain ranges from that area all across NV; the geological term is horst und graben (after the German, obviously!), meaning "mountain and valley", used to denote a repeating pattern of this type.  Granite and/or basalt mountain ranges interspersed with alluvial valleys -- if they didn't exist, the premise for the exceptionally entertaining film "Tremors" (the 1990 original, not the substandard sequels!) would be moot!   

[kkt]

I just wish there was a more direct path, practical and possible, between Carson City and Las Vegas. Between all the rows of mountains and certain small towns (like Tonopah) that would dry up and die if bypassed it would be very costly and quite an engineering achievement to build a road that spanned between Las Vegas and the Reno-Carson City area directly. Fallon is 60 miles East of Reno and Carson City.

Geography generally gets the last word.  It can be overcome, but only at great expense.

[Plutonic Panda]

It would be really cool to see more direct path with multiple tunnels to make that happen. I'm guessing somewhere in the 10-20 billion dollar range is what it would take to make that happen?

[sparker]

It would be really cool to see more direct path with multiple tunnels to make that happen. I'm guessing somewhere in the 10-20 billion dollar range is what it would take to make that happen?

Not likely -- this isn't China!

[kkt]

It would be really cool to see more direct path with multiple tunnels to make that happen. I'm guessing somewhere in the 10-20 billion dollar range is what it would take to make that happen?

Not likely -- this isn't China!

Not to shave half an hour off the drive from Reno to Vegas.

[roadfro]

It would be really cool to see more direct path with multiple tunnels to make that happen. I'm guessing somewhere in the 10-20 billion dollar range is what it would take to make that happen?

Not likely -- this isn't China!

Not to shave half an hour off the drive from Reno to Vegas.

Not likely is the exact outcome.

Nevada currently has exactly three road tunnel pairs: I-80's Carlin Tunnels, US 50 at Cave Rock, and the Airport Connector in Las Vegas. We're much more adept at forging mountain passes or circumnavigating mountain ranges.

Blame Mother Nature for all the problems in the vicinity with the plethora of towering N-S oriented mountain ranges from that area all across NV; the geological term is horst und graben (after the German, obviously!), meaning "mountain and valley", used to denote a repeating pattern of this type.  Granite and/or basalt mountain ranges interspersed with alluvial valleys -- if they didn't exist, the premise for the exceptionally entertaining film "Tremors" (the 1990 original, not the substandard sequels!) would be moot!   

My Nevada upbringing, I learned this as "basin and range" topography. It dominates most of central and northern Nevada, and also explains why there's only three real long-haul east-west routes across the state (I-80, US 50 and US 6).