The history of the online road community

[bugo]

Somebody with more knowledge than I needs to write a brief history of the road community from its beginnings when everybody on MTR got along great and there was no drama. Geocities, Xoom, Angelfire, and all the free web hosting services. Online mapping in its infancy. Tom From Ohio and other trolls. The entrance of young posters who destroyed the dynamic that made us all get along. Who wants to do it?

[Zeffy]

The entrance of young posters who destroyed the dynamic that made us all get along.

I'd believe this if I didn't already see enough conflict on the MTR archives without any of the so-called younger members. I stand firmly against discriminating against age considering roads and highways is a topic that is allowed to be enjoyed by anybody.

[bugo]

Read some old MTR posts from 1997 or 1998. It was after that that the children came in and acted like they owned the place. I know you're jealous that you're not an MTR original and all, but there's no reason to rewrite history.

[Zeffy]

Read some old MTR posts from 1997 or 1998. It was after that that the children came in and acted like they owned the place. I know you're jealous that you're not an MTR original and all, but there's no reason to rewrite history.

I have read a large amount of MTR posts. What I'm saying is that while MTR is part of the roadgeeking legacy, I'm quite confident that most of the members here are content with AARoads' forum over the Usenet based MTR. The forum has so many more features that Usenet never had, such as embedding images into your posts. Who wants to click a link every time when they can just see it when the post loads?

I'm not jealous that I'm a "new" member and not an MTR original. I loved this place since I found it, and I have learned so much more than I knew a year (or two?) ago when I first joined. Personally, I don't care if you don't like me, because you're entitled to your own opinions, and frankly, I just ignore all the negative ones said about me anyway.

We're not rewriting history - we're just simply living life in the present.

[NE2]

I was one of the kids who rooined mtr.

[bugo]

MTR had many advantages over this forum. First, you had total freedom of speech. Here, if you call somebody a mean old poopyhead the post will be modified if not deleted and you could even be banned. On MTR you could flame to your heart's content. Legends in the road community like Tom From Ohio and Randy Hersh simply could not exist on this forum because of the buzzkill moderators. If I ran this forum there would be no censorship.

[bugo]

I was one of the kids who rooined mtr.

Nah, you were one of the valued early contributors. The kids I'm talking about (who are probably pushing 30 now) came in thinking they knew everything and picked fights with some of the OGs. Most of these kids have moved on and are on the fringes of the community or have left altogether. I'm not an ageist - most of my friends are younger than me but it seems like on MTR and the other forums that came later that the younger a person is, the more likely they are to be clueless retards.

[jeffandnicole]

There's censorship, and then there's keeping it civil.  Without censorship, guaranteed you would wind up having an entire forum that debates politics and becomes so far removed from the subject material that you would just create another MTR.  The valued members would give up and move on.

I've seen this on many other forums as well.  Travel forums are a great example: In their infancy, generally there's a core group of people that know and love a city.  They assist people.  They create a bond...but really it's more of a clique.  They'll even host "meet-and-greets" in their city among each other.  When newer people show up and start answering the questions, there's a bit of resentment towards these people.  The clique eventually starts responding less and less, figuring if there are know-it-alls that want to take over the forum, then by all means have at it...even though the know-it-alls are just as good as the originals.  They treated the travel forum website as their own, even though they were nothing but visitors living rent-free.

On a more local forum to me, same thing:  It was supposed to be about the county, but yet a few people kept bringing up national politics.  I actually suggested a few times for them to bring it to another appropriate forum, but the one or two guys would basically claim that if it's happing in Washington DC, then it's relevant for the county or town (it wasn't).  And then there's the guy that posts nothing but youtube videos to supposedly back up his views.  In the end, the forum was nothing but links to youtube videos and politics bashing, and valued people stopped posting about things relevant to the subject. 

[bugo]

Politics is one thing. Being a funny troll who makes others laugh is a different matter.

[US71]

Read some old MTR posts from 1997 or 1998. It was after that that the children came in and acted like they owned the place. I know you're jealous that you're not an MTR original and all, but there's no reason to rewrite history.

Not all Trolls were young, but many Trolls did act immature... like they do on Facebook

[froggie]

As I recall, even in the early days there was still some drama, so I'm not sure where bugo was going with that comment.

[kurumi]

I think many of us look back fondly on the old days whenever we were first getting started. So many threads and posters with brand new information. So many questions to answer, mysteries to unravel, old maps and documents to track down.

Now the community's a lot bigger. Information is easier to find. There's not enough time to read all the threads, but frankly there are some corners of the hobby you don't care much about and can leave that to others. But you have online maps of almost anywhere; street view of the same (and if there's an interesting road feature anywhere, chances are someone here has a pic); driving videos; illustration tutorials; more and more DOT plans, historical documents, AASHTO minutes, etc. online; and a free-beer, substantially free-speech forum where we're not worried about spammers or trolls or haters chasing all the good people out.

If you're looking for a golden age, there's a good argument that it's right now.

[1995hoo]

I read MTR occasionally but never posted there. I avoided posting to USENET in general. Among other things, I prefer the overall civility here (except for one rude forum member and another who can be a bit too much of a know-it-all) and I note the lack of spam here compared to USENET groups that are overrun with it. You also don't have to put your e-mail address out there for all to see (yes, I know you could just set up a dummy account or "spam account" for USENET).

I don't feel anyone should be looked down upon for not having posted on MTR. Some people didn't know it existed or didn't know how to access newsgroups. Nothing wrong with that.

[bandit957]

I remember the problems with Usenet in general happened in the late '90s. It didn't hit MTR as badly, but occasionally it would spill over into MTR from other newsgroups.

The personal and classist attacks against me on Usenet were completely unjustified and unwarranted. Although I was about 25, the attacks against me were generated by former high school classmates who secretly e-mailed Usenet regulars with stupid made-up crap about me. They also paid off local politicians so they wouldn't get in trouble. Much of this was because I announced my intent to run for public office, and because my newsletter and website bitterly criticized my former high school.

I think I still have a copy of the police report I made against someone on Usenet at the time, but nobody was ever punished.

[SignGeek101]

Well, I know where this came from, and I just want to say that I love the forum. I've learned quite a bit about signs (my hobby) and bit on roads as well, and it's all thanks to the members on here.

If someone wants to write a history piece on the history of road/signgeeking (in other words before or just after I was born), then I'd love to read it. I've only been here (as a guest) since summer 2012.

If veteran members consider me "young" and immature, then I apologize. I think I'm pretty far from being considered a troll, or "ruining a forum" or something like that. The community is constantly evolving with newer members and different ways of looking at things.

[nexus73]

Young people posting here seem to do just fine.  They love roads after all and so did I from childhood on.  The first time I saw I-5 in Oregon shortly after it was built (50 years ago) was an incredible eyeopener.  With the evolving designs of freeways and other types of roads, it is fun to see new generational perspectives as they are the people who see the world through fresh eyes.  We were all young once and short of an untimely death we will all be old.  The journey of life and on the roads is an interesting one!

Forum moderation here seems light.  I am on some "free speech" ones and they are lewd and crude, which is fine by me.  Goes with being a native rural Oregonian I guess...LOL!  Other forums I have been on saw plenty of heavy handed moderation, real forum nazi types.  AARF gets an A from me for the way the moderators handle affairs.  On top of that we are not overrun with spam.

Usenet groups were fun back in the day.  The net evolved, spammers overran Usenet and that pretty much brought that phase of my computer life to an end.  IRC, remember that?  Another Nineties online tool which I no longer use.

Anyways, there's my POV on this topic.  Take it and $4 to a Starbucks and you can enjoy a cup of fancy coffee...LOL!

Rick

[Pete from Boston]

What is being talked about here is a microcosm of the internet.  Was the internet "cooler" when it was a comparatively smaller group of committed individuals?  Sort of.  Is it more useful now?  Yes.

Anyway, Serdar Argic ruined Usenet all the way back in 1993.

[slorydn1]

As a moderator of a car based forum, and an administrator at a racing related forum I can say that the staff here at AAroads do an outstanding job of finding the right balance between letting the members air things out and keeping the trolls at bay.

I followed MTR back in the day, even added a post here and there and the way people treated each other then was absolutely ridiculous. One could pretty much agree with everthing a poster said, except with one small thing they thought should be different and they were instantly labled an idiot, or called names I'm not sure that I can print here without violating the rules.

As for over-under moderation, well I understand where some people are coming from. On one forum I mod at, the forum has an absolute policy against the use of cusswords. Now anyone who knows me in person knows that I can't even complete a spoken sentence without at least one cussword (LOL), so I am no prude. However the rules of that forum dictate that I have to censor those posts and hand out infractions for the use of the words. Because of that, I guess I am one of those "forum Nazi's" that others speak of. I guess it's the same for any "cop" that has had to write a speeding ticket ("shouldn't you be out there catching criminals instead of messing with me?") Personally I could care less that you cussed, hell I would like to be able to type one every once in a while, too!




I'm with Pete on this one. Sure it seemed cooler back when everything was fresh and new, every new thread was a new window into something we wouldn't have seen before. The internet is much more useful now though.

[jeffandnicole]

I think many of us look back fondly on the old days whenever we were first getting started. So many threads and posters with brand new information. So many questions to answer, mysteries to unravel, old maps and documents to track down.

Now the community's a lot bigger. Information is easier to find. There's not enough time to read all the threads, but frankly there are some corners of the hobby you don't care much about and can leave that to others. But you have online maps of almost anywhere; street view of the same (and if there's an interesting road feature anywhere, chances are someone here has a pic); driving videos; illustration tutorials; more and more DOT plans, historical documents, AASHTO minutes, etc. online; and a free-beer, substantially free-speech forum where we're not worried about spammers or trolls or haters chasing all the good people out.

If you're looking for a golden age, there's a good argument that it's right now.

The downside to the community being a lot bigger: Topics that were brought up and discussed thoroughly, with the topic discussion exhausted, becomes brand new again when someone starts a new discussion. At that point, there's a decision to make: Does someone say "We already talked about this, here's the link", or do we allow the discussion to continue?  It kinda depends on if there's anything new to talk about.

The only other thing that can be a little annoying is one someone goes thru a stretch of road and sees something 'unique', even though another poster may live and travel by that stretch of highway every day.  But, there's 2 things that can come of that:  1) If it's something I know and love, I try to add some insight to it (for example, the Atlantic City Expressway signage mentioned on another thread).  It really helps to know the history going back a few decades in some cases.  Or, I go thru a section of road so often, to see and hear about it from another perspective can be interesting sometimes.  What may seem straightforward to me may be completely confusing to someone not used to the area.

[bugo]

As far as buzzkill ops go some overzealous bitch on a power trip with no sense of humor or history deleted my TFO post. Thanks for proving my point, jerk. Goddamn I miss MTR

[Zeffy]

As far as buzzkill ops go some overzealous bitch on a power trip with no sense of humor or history deleted my TFO post. Thanks for proving my point, jerk. Goddamn I miss MTR

I'm not really on a power trip. Your post had 0 merit and only served to insult others, so I removed it. The entire discussion was turning ugly, so I removed everything that stemmed off of the browser history discussion. You can call me overzealous, power-hungry, buzzkill, whatever you honestly want (I know you've called me other derogatory terms here), but I'm just simply allowing people to browse this forum without reading anything that is overly rude and possibly hurtful to other members here.

It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However, Alex thinks that this forum should have moderation in order to maintain a sense of balance and to uphold peace for the greater forum community. I don't disagree.

If moderation didn't exist here, imagine all the political, religious, racial discussions that could stem and then rile everybody up to the point where they actively avoid each other and kill the health of the forum. Most people don't want that.

[bugo]

As far as buzzkill ops go some overzealous bitch on a power trip with no sense of humor or history deleted my TFO post. Thanks for proving my point, jerk. Goddamn I miss MTR

I'm not really on a power trip. Your post had 0 merit and only served to insult others, so I removed it. The entire discussion was turning ugly, so I removed everything that stemmed off of the browser history discussion. You can call me overzealous, power-hungry, buzzkill, whatever you honestly want (I know you've called me other derogatory terms here), but I'm just simply allowing people to browse this forum without reading anything that is overly rude and possibly hurtful to other members here.

It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However, Alex thinks that this forum should have moderation in order to maintain a sense of balance and to uphold peace for the greater forum community. I don't disagree.

If moderation didn't exist here, imagine all the political, religious, racial discussions that could stem and then rile everybody up to the point where they actively avoid each other and kill the health of the forum. Most people don't want that.

You're just a whiny little bitch who has no concept of what the road community is all about. I would be willing to bet that most of the OG posters would have laughed at the TFO post. I told Nitzman you were no good. Go ahead and delete this post. Add more fuel to the fire. Dig that grave a little deeper. You remind me of one of those security guards who couldn't make it as a cop. I'll have a talk with Alex and maybe he'll teach you some history, you little child.

[bugo]

And why not prove to me what most posters want. It's what you want. Quit speaking for others. You're just an internet tough guy who has zero power in real life and you overcompensate. You're worse than Nazelrod (who is actually a decent person in real life.)

[Brandon]

Somebody with more knowledge than I needs to write a brief history of the road community from its beginnings when everybody on MTR got along great and there was no drama. Geocities, Xoom, Angelfire, and all the free web hosting services. Online mapping in its infancy. Tom From Ohio and other trolls. The entrance of young posters who destroyed the dynamic that made us all get along. Who wants to do it?

Yeah, as if there was no drama, no flamebaiting, no trolling, and everything was all hunky dorky like the Garden of Eden Prairie.  Bugo, you do have a bit of a selective memory on that one.  I seem to remember all the early crossposting between usenet groups, most notably the planning one with mtr.  I also remember a shitload of spam crossposting that some would post to any and all usenet groups.

[Zeffy]

And why not prove to me what most posters want. It's whatyou want. Quit speaking for others. You're just an internet tough guy who has zero power in real life and you overcompensate. You're worse than Nazelrod (who is actually a decent person in real life.)

How would you know who I am in real life? We've never met. How this is going so far, I'd also prefer it to stay that way.

You're just a whiny little bitch who has no concept of what the road community is all about. I would be willing to bet that most of the OG posters would have laughed at the TFO post. I told Nitzman you were no good. Go ahead and delete this post. Add more fuel to the fire. Dig that grave a little deeper. You remind me of one of those security guards who couldn't make it as a cop. I'll have a talk with Alex and maybe he'll teach you some history, you little child.

Dig what grave deeper? Alex has told me all the history about AARoads and MTR. I'm well aware of your past in this community, but that's the thing - it's the past. I live life in the present. What exactly am I doing wrong here?