Question about the Gardiner and "authority" regarding signage

[MisterSG1]

I thought about this hypothetically, obviously the City of Toronto (and the City of Hamilton) with the Gardiner Expressway and DVP are municipal expressways. (A rather unfair situation but that's a different issue) Anyways, hypothetically, if the City of Toronto wanted to turn all their guide signs PURPLE, could they legally do it? I would think, yes.

The City of Toronto's signs, on the Gardiner especially, the newer ones are all in Clearview font. There are other differences that come to mind as well, such as 400-series road signs having a completely square white border around the sign, while the City of Toronto uses the approach used everywhere else in North America with rounded edges. The use of a diagonal arrow in the "exit only" bar is seen on Toronto expressways only.

So what I ask, as long as the signs have metric distances, could the City of Toronto legally make any sign design they so choose? Could they for instance, throw in the words "EXIT ONLY" in those yellow bars? It's just something I'm curious about.

[SignGeek101]

I thought about this hypothetically, obviously the City of Toronto (and the City of Hamilton) with the Gardiner Expressway and DVP are municipal expressways. (A rather unfair situation but that's a different issue) Anyways, hypothetically, if the City of Toronto wanted to turn all their guide signs PURPLE, could they legally do it? I would think, yes.

The City of Toronto's signs, on the Gardiner especially, the newer ones are all in Clearview font. There are other differences that come to mind as well, such as 400-series road signs having a completely square white border around the sign, while the City of Toronto uses the approach used everywhere else in North America with rounded edges. The use of a diagonal arrow in the "exit only" bar is seen on Toronto expressways only.

So what I ask, as long as the signs have metric distances, could the City of Toronto legally make any sign design they so choose? Could they for instance, throw in the words "EXIT ONLY" in those yellow bars? It's just something I'm curious about.

I think it may still have to follow some sort of bilingualism law. Ontario is pretty serious about that stuff. If the city of Toronto, for some reason decided to put all the signs in Feet and Miles (hypothetical, it wouldn't happen), then I'm sure someone from the MTO would say something.

Overall though, I think the province could overpower the city if the province deems the sign unsatisfactory, but gives cities some wiggle room with respect to fonts. Sault Ste. Marie also uses Clearview, as many other municipalities across Ontario. I'm certainly no expert though.

[MisterSG1]

Funny you should mention bilingualism, because the day the Etobicoke QEW got transferred to the Gardiner, one of the first things the City of Toronto did was remove the french signs. That is right sir, there are NO French signs on City of Toronto freeways. So they are great in that respect.  It's kind of ironic in a strange way, but that's how things go.

While the Gardiner has some of the "Advance Exit" signs in the elevated portion which have been the standard on 400 series highways since the mid 90s, if memory serves me right of many leisure trips up and down the DVP, there is not one "Advance Exit" sign on the DVP, take a look at the DVP's signs, they are subpar if you ask me, but Toronto has much more important issues to deal with than a few old signs.

Although as long as the speed limit is in km/h, I guess putting distances in feet and miles COULD be allowed, but I'm not sure. Remember that Arizona's I-19 once toyed with metric signage. As well, if I recall, Puerto Rico has speed limits in MPH but it's guide signs are in kilometers.

[SignGeek101]

Remember that Arizona's I-19 once toyed with metric signage. As well, if I recall, Puerto Rico has speed limits in MPH but it's guide signs are in kilometers.

This sign was put up in 2012.

http://goo.gl/maps/ubYMM

[AsphaltPlanet]

The province has no say on what type of signage the City of Toronto erects on its municipal expressway network.  The only motivation that the city has to follow Ontario's MUTCD would be the threat of legal action if a sign that was too far off base was, or could be considered, a factor in a collision.

[Brandon]

Although as long as the speed limit is in km/h, I guess putting distances in feet and miles COULD be allowed, but I'm not sure. Remember that Arizona's I-19 once toyed with metric signage. As well, if I recall, Puerto Rico has speed limits in MPH but it's guide signs are in kilometers.

It's been done by parkades.  The east parkade at Polo Park Mall in Winnipeg has clearances in feet and inches.  The parkade was obviously built sometime after 1977.

[SignGeek101]

Although as long as the speed limit is in km/h, I guess putting distances in feet and miles COULD be allowed, but I'm not sure. Remember that Arizona's I-19 once toyed with metric signage. As well, if I recall, Puerto Rico has speed limits in MPH but it's guide signs are in kilometers.

It's been done by parkades.  The east parkade at Polo Park Mall in Winnipeg has clearances in feet and inches.  The parkade was obviously built sometime after 1977.

Many parkades have clearances in ft and in. but most have metric with them, usually first.

There are dual metric / imperial signs, but that is for another thread.

[mrsman]

Funny you should mention bilingualism, because the day the Etobicoke QEW got transferred to the Gardiner, one of the first things the City of Toronto did was remove the french signs. That is right sir, there are NO French signs on City of Toronto freeways. So they are great in that respect.  It's kind of ironic in a strange way, but that's how things go.

IMO, the only time there should be bilingual signs should be in places where there is a regulation that would be too complicated to describe with a picture.  There is no need for NORTH/NORD, as I'm sure 99% of French speakers would know that they are the same thing, even if they don't speak a word of English.

[SignGeek101]

Funny you should mention bilingualism, because the day the Etobicoke QEW got transferred to the Gardiner, one of the first things the City of Toronto did was remove the french signs. That is right sir, there are NO French signs on City of Toronto freeways. So they are great in that respect.  It's kind of ironic in a strange way, but that's how things go.

IMO, the only time there should be bilingual signs should be in places where there is a regulation that would be too complicated to describe with a picture.  There is no need for NORTH/NORD, as I'm sure 99% of French speakers would know that they are the same thing, even if they don't speak a word of English.

Yup, it's flat out annoying here seeing the obvious bilingualism. Like Av. (Streetname) Ave for example. Or EAST / EST Toronto. Quebec doesn't put english on their signs and english speakers get by just fine.

I don't mind Toronto signage that much. The clearview looks neat most of the time, and they even round their borders on the edges of the signs, somethings the MTO stopped doing many years ago. It's a nice touch.

I've said this many times before; I am strongly against bilingualism, unless it's absolutely required (like all text signs that have to pictogram near the border for example).