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Started by mukade, October 25, 2012, 09:27:04 PM

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silverback1065

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 01, 2015, 01:34:03 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:39:07 AM
Quote from: US 41 on September 01, 2015, 10:30:56 AM
What's up with US 52 in Lafayette? I drove through there Friday night and it's routed on some crappy road on the south side of Lafayette. When did that happen? Didn't it run on the northeast side of Lafayette on the inner bypass? Why is INDOT allowed to f*ck up the US Highways now? If they want to mess their own road network up then whatever, but US highways, really? You would think they would be protected since they are a federal highway, but I guess I am wrong. It also appears like SR 26 has a might have a gap in it. Someone in INDOT needs fired. The fact that these towns are allowing this to happen is even more amazing to me. I would never let INDOT abandon a highway in my town if I was in charge. Kokomo is the only smart town in Indiana apparently since they refused to take over Old 31 / SR 931. Kokomo deserves a  :clap:.

this fuck up happened 9/13/13, when the new bypass opened up, US 52 follows the old route of 25 on teal road, then is cosigned on the new bypass with us 231, the mileage on the bypass is us 52's.  all the other decommissionings happened that day too.  Originally US 52 was never going to be moved and in fact, SR 26 was supposed to be cosigned with 52 until it crossed south street, this was even on the plans up until the last minute.  this new routing I agree is stupid, I'm actually surprised the cities went along with it, seeing as there's a bridge over the Wabash that needs to be repaired relatively soon.  And the only rule I know of is you cannot have a discontinuity in a us route, (unsigned portions aren't technically a discontinuity).  This new route (teal road segment) doesn't really seem truck friendly either. No one refers to it as being us 52 also (the bypass), only as 231.  Also INDOT does this a lot (weird reroutings), look at the salem bypass.

I don't know Lafayette really well, so I don't know the answer, but I do know the question:

If you are traveling back and forth between US 52 south of Lafayette and the junction of the new 231 bypass and Sagamore Pkway, what is the quickest route?  The answer to that is what should probably be the routing of US 52.

I know Lafayette pretty well, having to drive back and forth from school to home when I went to Purdue, and the current routing of 52 is the better route in terms of speed to and from Indy and Purdue.  But the more logical route is the old one, it's slower only because of the local congestion with all of the signals and businesses along Sagamore Pkwy. That's just my case; if you're talking about from other locations, it may be different for you. 


PurdueBill

The only reason could be that Teal Road was already in INDOT jurisdiction as SR 25 coming in from the south; it briefly used to overlap US 231 on S 4th St. before heading east on Teal while 231 went north on 4th St.  When the new 231 opened in 2001, 25 was still on that same alignment.  When INDOT went all crazy killing 126, 526, and 443 and making 25 and 26 discontinuous across Lafayette and West Lafayette (which is still stupid), they also wanted to give up Sagamore Parkway which the locals still call the 52 Bypass sometimes.  (It once was a speedy bypass out in nowhere.)  INDOT already "owned" Teal Road so that was the easiest reroute to get 52 over to the "new" 231.  A more sensible route might have used one of the county roads to the south, widened for capacity, but even 350 South which used to be through nothing but corn and soybeans is now a congested stop and go fest of development, possibly worse than Teal now.

On Teal Road, you have to deal with a lot of lights plus it going down to two lanes; passing Jeff High School and the fairgrounds....it is NOT friendly to thru traffic.  The new 231 bypass is very nice but it is a fatal flaw to not have it connected to I-65 in some meaningful way other than the dread new alignment of 52 on Teal.  Getting traffic to and from Purdue from the south, for example, still involves using the old 26 routing across both cities, using former 25 to get to 65, or taking current 52, 38, or 350 South.  Allowing 350 South to become the monster it has become was a mistake; it used to be a pretty reasonable way to get from new 231 to 65.  Not anymore...it's not any better than Teal.

The "new" US 231 bridge over the Wabash was disconnected from anything and everything for quite a while after being built; it was visible from South River Road in the mid-90s sitting there ready to go with no dual carriageway to connect to it at either end. 

silverback1065

Quote from: PurdueBill on September 01, 2015, 02:07:08 PM
The only reason could be that Teal Road was already in INDOT jurisdiction as SR 25 coming in from the south; it briefly used to overlap US 231 on S 4th St. before heading east on Teal while 231 went north on 4th St.  When the new 231 opened in 2001, 25 was still on that same alignment.  When INDOT went all crazy killing 126, 526, and 443 and making 25 and 26 discontinuous across Lafayette and West Lafayette (which is still stupid), they also wanted to give up Sagamore Parkway which the locals still call the 52 Bypass sometimes.  (It once was a speedy bypass out in nowhere.)  INDOT already "owned" Teal Road so that was the easiest reroute to get 52 over to the "new" 231.  A more sensible route might have used one of the county roads to the south, widened for capacity, but even 350 South which used to be through nothing but corn and soybeans is now a congested stop and go fest of development, possibly worse than Teal now.

On Teal Road, you have to deal with a lot of lights plus it going down to two lanes; passing Jeff High School and the fairgrounds....it is NOT friendly to thru traffic.  The new 231 bypass is very nice but it is a fatal flaw to not have it connected to I-65 in some meaningful way other than the dread new alignment of 52 on Teal.  Getting traffic to and from Purdue from the south, for example, still involves using the old 26 routing across both cities, using former 25 to get to 65, or taking current 52, 38, or 350 South.  Allowing 350 South to become the monster it has become was a mistake; it used to be a pretty reasonable way to get from new 231 to 65.  Not anymore...it's not any better than Teal.

The "new" US 231 bridge over the Wabash was disconnected from anything and everything for quite a while after being built; it was visible from South River Road in the mid-90s sitting there ready to go with no dual carriageway to connect to it at either end.

isn't that bypass supposed to go to 65 in the very far future?

PurdueBill

Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 02:09:58 PM
isn't that bypass supposed to go to 65 in the very far future?

It probably could have gone there 15 years ago!  As it is (and has been since 2001), the 2001 and 2013 segments of the 231 bypass are a fast route to nowhere if you need to get toward Indy from Purdue or the west side. 

US 41

I think the federal government needs to make it to where a US route can only be rerouted if there is an improvement being made to it. In US 52's case, running it on Teal St. is not an improvement.

Indiana in reality needs to raise their mileage cap and take care of their own roads rather than bribing the local governments to do it for them. People that aren't familiar with the area will drive far out of the way following the signed highway rather than taking the old routes that are much faster. Is Sagamore Parkway signed as an emergency detour for I-65? I know that US 40 in Terre Haute that was decomissioned is signed as an emergency detour for I-70. It would make sense to sign Sagamore Parkway as the emergency detour since there is a bridge out on I-65. I would hate to see interstate traffic trying to take Teal St.
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silverback1065

Quote from: US 41 on September 01, 2015, 05:27:34 PM
I think the federal government needs to make it to where a US route can only be rerouted if there is an improvement being made to it. In US 52's case, running it on Teal St. is not an improvement.

Indiana in reality needs to raise their mileage cap and take care of their own roads rather than bribing the local governments to do it for them. People that aren't familiar with the area will drive far out of the way following the signed highway rather than taking the old routes that are much faster. Is Sagamore Parkway signed as an emergency detour for I-65? I know that US 40 in Terre Haute that was decomissioned is signed as an emergency detour for I-70. It would make sense to sign Sagamore Parkway as the emergency detour since there is a bridge out on I-65. I would hate to see interstate traffic trying to take Teal St.
Nope its not even signed as truck 52 its just sagamore.

billtm

Everybody in town (West Lafayette) still calls the Sagamore Pkwy. US 52. For example, many times people say to take a left onto 52 across the river from Salisbury, then take another left onto Indiana 25, if someone requests directions to 65 southbound from the high school athletic complex. I just don't get why the state and cities can't share the road. Have the state take care of (good) route signage, pavement, and road markings, while the city takes care of other stuff (Like stoplights, auxilliary signage, and sidewalks). And for big projects, like the State St. (Old 26) project through Purdue, the state and local people should pool their money in together for one unified project. An example where unity would've been nice is Northwestern Ave. The state repaved the entire thing, and then the city tears up some new pavement for a new median. Why couldn't the new median have been installed with the new pavement? :hmmm: 

silverback1065

Quote from: billtm on September 01, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Everybody in town (West Lafayette) still calls the Sagamore Pkwy. US 52. For example, many times people say to take a left onto 52 across the river from Salisbury, then take another left onto Indiana 25, if someone requests directions to 65 southbound from the high school athletic complex. I just don't get why the state and cities can't share the road. Have the state take care of (good) route signage, pavement, and road markings, while the city takes care of other stuff (Like stoplights, auxilliary signage, and sidewalks). And for big projects, like the State St. (Old 26) project through Purdue, the state and local people should pool their money in together for one unified project. An example where unity would've been nice is Northwestern Ave. The state repaved the entire thing, and then the city tears up some new pavement for a new median. Why couldn't the new median have been installed with the new pavement? :hmmm:
I agree with you but I'll add 2 points, 26 should have been removed through west Lafayette only, through traffic especially semis should not be on that road, too many students jwalking, when i was a student, even crossing state St the right way was dangerous at times. Other thing is I believe any time a city wants to add a signal to a state road, the state will put it up, but the city has to pay for and maintain the signal.  26 should have went north up to sagamore followed it all the way around to south st. Or to 43 back to state St at river road

PurdueBill

Quote from: billtm on September 01, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Everybody in town (West Lafayette) still calls the Sagamore Pkwy. US 52. For example, many times people say to take a left onto 52 across the river from Salisbury, then take another left onto Indiana 25, if someone requests directions to 65 southbound from the high school athletic complex. I just don't get why the state and cities can't share the road. Have the state take care of (good) route signage, pavement, and road markings, while the city takes care of other stuff (Like stoplights, auxilliary signage, and sidewalks). And for big projects, like the State St. (Old 26) project through Purdue, the state and local people should pool their money in together for one unified project. An example where unity would've been nice is Northwestern Ave. The state repaved the entire thing, and then the city tears up some new pavement for a new median. Why couldn't the new median have been installed with the new pavement? :hmmm: 

West Lafayette really got out of control on Northwestern.  The streetscaping and stuff going all the way up to Yeager is out of control.  I lost count of the number of times in the last 20 years that the signals at Northwestern and Stadium Ave have been replaced...the most recent time being entirely for appearance really, as the existing INDOT installation was fine but not pretty enough. 

26's jaunt eastbound around the graduate houses, Harry's, and Chauncey Hill Mall with all those turns was a bit much for some traffic, but a sensible option would have been to run it with 231 south on the new bypass, then maybe over Teal (if they insist on using Teal in the state network) to Sagamore, then up that to 26's old routing (South St.).  Bonus: this would have allowed 38 to end at another route (26 instead of 25/52 or just 52 as it has been before) vs. ending all by itself like it does now.

silverback1065

Quote from: PurdueBill on September 01, 2015, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: billtm on September 01, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Everybody in town (West Lafayette) still calls the Sagamore Pkwy. US 52. For example, many times people say to take a left onto 52 across the river from Salisbury, then take another left onto Indiana 25, if someone requests directions to 65 southbound from the high school athletic complex. I just don't get why the state and cities can't share the road. Have the state take care of (good) route signage, pavement, and road markings, while the city takes care of other stuff (Like stoplights, auxilliary signage, and sidewalks). And for big projects, like the State St. (Old 26) project through Purdue, the state and local people should pool their money in together for one unified project. An example where unity would've been nice is Northwestern Ave. The state repaved the entire thing, and then the city tears up some new pavement for a new median. Why couldn't the new median have been installed with the new pavement? :hmmm: 

West Lafayette really got out of control on Northwestern.  The streetscaping and stuff going all the way up to Yeager is out of control.  I lost count of the number of times in the last 20 years that the signals at Northwestern and Stadium Ave have been replaced...the most recent time being entirely for appearance really, as the existing INDOT installation was fine but not pretty enough. 

26's jaunt eastbound around the graduate houses, Harry's, and Chauncey Hill Mall with all those turns was a bit much for some traffic, but a sensible option would have been to run it with 231 south on the new bypass, then maybe over Teal (if they insist on using Teal in the state network) to Sagamore, then up that to 26's old routing (South St.).  Bonus: this would have allowed 38 to end at another route (26 instead of 25/52 or just 52 as it has been before) vs. ending all by itself like it does now.
I don't know why 38 wasn't just made to turn south to meet at us 52 at teal road. Teal road is in terrible shape, thankfully they will be redoing the entire road and fixing the 4th St intersection.

billtm

Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on September 01, 2015, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: billtm on September 01, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Everybody in town (West Lafayette) still calls the Sagamore Pkwy. US 52. For example, many times people say to take a left onto 52 across the river from Salisbury, then take another left onto Indiana 25, if someone requests directions to 65 southbound from the high school athletic complex. I just don't get why the state and cities can't share the road. Have the state take care of (good) route signage, pavement, and road markings, while the city takes care of other stuff (Like stoplights, auxilliary signage, and sidewalks). And for big projects, like the State St. (Old 26) project through Purdue, the state and local people should pool their money in together for one unified project. An example where unity would've been nice is Northwestern Ave. The state repaved the entire thing, and then the city tears up some new pavement for a new median. Why couldn't the new median have been installed with the new pavement? :hmmm: 

West Lafayette really got out of control on Northwestern.  The streetscaping and stuff going all the way up to Yeager is out of control.  I lost count of the number of times in the last 20 years that the signals at Northwestern and Stadium Ave have been replaced...the most recent time being entirely for appearance really, as the existing INDOT installation was fine but not pretty enough. 

26's jaunt eastbound around the graduate houses, Harry's, and Chauncey Hill Mall with all those turns was a bit much for some traffic, but a sensible option would have been to run it with 231 south on the new bypass, then maybe over Teal (if they insist on using Teal in the state network) to Sagamore, then up that to 26's old routing (South St.).  Bonus: this would have allowed 38 to end at another route (26 instead of 25/52 or just 52 as it has been before) vs. ending all by itself like it does now.
I don't know why 38 wasn't just made to turn south to meet at us 52 at teal road. Teal road is in terrible shape, thankfully they will be redoing the entire road and fixing the 4th St intersection.
Glad to hear that! :clap: I definitely agree that Teal Rd. should be extended to meet IN-38. It would only have to be 0.36 mi. long, and the only building in the way is an (easily replaceable/relocatable) Chase Bank.

PurdueBill

Quote from: billtm on September 01, 2015, 10:05:57 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on September 01, 2015, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: billtm on September 01, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Everybody in town (West Lafayette) still calls the Sagamore Pkwy. US 52. For example, many times people say to take a left onto 52 across the river from Salisbury, then take another left onto Indiana 25, if someone requests directions to 65 southbound from the high school athletic complex. I just don't get why the state and cities can't share the road. Have the state take care of (good) route signage, pavement, and road markings, while the city takes care of other stuff (Like stoplights, auxilliary signage, and sidewalks). And for big projects, like the State St. (Old 26) project through Purdue, the state and local people should pool their money in together for one unified project. An example where unity would've been nice is Northwestern Ave. The state repaved the entire thing, and then the city tears up some new pavement for a new median. Why couldn't the new median have been installed with the new pavement? :hmmm: 

West Lafayette really got out of control on Northwestern.  The streetscaping and stuff going all the way up to Yeager is out of control.  I lost count of the number of times in the last 20 years that the signals at Northwestern and Stadium Ave have been replaced...the most recent time being entirely for appearance really, as the existing INDOT installation was fine but not pretty enough. 

26's jaunt eastbound around the graduate houses, Harry's, and Chauncey Hill Mall with all those turns was a bit much for some traffic, but a sensible option would have been to run it with 231 south on the new bypass, then maybe over Teal (if they insist on using Teal in the state network) to Sagamore, then up that to 26's old routing (South St.).  Bonus: this would have allowed 38 to end at another route (26 instead of 25/52 or just 52 as it has been before) vs. ending all by itself like it does now.
I don't know why 38 wasn't just made to turn south to meet at us 52 at teal road. Teal road is in terrible shape, thankfully they will be redoing the entire road and fixing the 4th St intersection.
Glad to hear that! :clap: I definitely agree that Teal Rd. should be extended to meet IN-38. It would only have to be 0.36 mi. long, and the only building in the way is an (easily replaceable/relocatable) Chase Bank.
Teal extending over to 38 would only make sense if 38 turned onto it to meet where 52 turns onto Teal; it would be weird but no weirder than what exists now (southbound on Sagamore, intersect the end of 38 at one light and then meet 52 at the next straight or to the right, with 38 never touching 52).  It would save a bit of messing around  through both intersections for people doing 38 WB to 52 WB or 52 EB to 38 EB; there are probably plenty of such people considering that 38 is a great shot out to 65.  I have been known to cut through the driveway near the bank and Bed Bath & Beyond or the lot of the former Hobby Lobby to make the move from Teal EB to 38.

The whole thing around Lafayette is bonkers.  It makes me wonder if IU people infiltrated to stick it to Purdue or something.  :P

38 making the hairpin around to end at Teal would be odd-looking but would at least make it connect legally.  It seems that INDOT doesn't care about such things, though. 

It is weird that the powers that be won't allow a US route to be moved from an Interstate-grade road to a surface road (see US 117 in NC--granted, NCDOT just did what it wanted to anyway) but moving US 52 from a four-lane divided alignment onto a city street that goes down to 2 lanes, passes school zones and the county fairgrounds with associated backups and issues at every fairground event or high school football game, is A-OK. 

They really need to do like other states that allow route numbers to be posted over city/county roads.  There isn't much reason not to except for how the accounting and responsibilities are assigned, and drivers don't care who paves vs. who erects signs.  38 ending and reappearing in Frankfort only to disappear again in Lafayette, this time for good, at an intersection near but not at any other state route, is stupid.  25 and 26 pulling their disappearing acts now is stupid as well.  I'm still shocked that 225 remains; it must be because of the old one-lane bridge.  Its end at old 25 makes no sense.  If they wanted to, they could have 225 go one way (or the other) on old 25 and meet 25, but once again, that puts miles back in the state system that INDOT doesn't want and can't afford due to the law.  If 25, 26, and 225 could be signed over city and county roads, it would be a boon to connectivity and continuity, and aid greatly in navigation.

silverback1065

Quote from: PurdueBill on September 01, 2015, 10:18:09 PM
Quote from: billtm on September 01, 2015, 10:05:57 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: PurdueBill on September 01, 2015, 09:56:02 PM
Quote from: billtm on September 01, 2015, 09:31:45 PM
Everybody in town (West Lafayette) still calls the Sagamore Pkwy. US 52. For example, many times people say to take a left onto 52 across the river from Salisbury, then take another left onto Indiana 25, if someone requests directions to 65 southbound from the high school athletic complex. I just don't get why the state and cities can't share the road. Have the state take care of (good) route signage, pavement, and road markings, while the city takes care of other stuff (Like stoplights, auxilliary signage, and sidewalks). And for big projects, like the State St. (Old 26) project through Purdue, the state and local people should pool their money in together for one unified project. An example where unity would've been nice is Northwestern Ave. The state repaved the entire thing, and then the city tears up some new pavement for a new median. Why couldn't the new median have been installed with the new pavement? :hmmm: 

West Lafayette really got out of control on Northwestern.  The streetscaping and stuff going all the way up to Yeager is out of control.  I lost count of the number of times in the last 20 years that the signals at Northwestern and Stadium Ave have been replaced...the most recent time being entirely for appearance really, as the existing INDOT installation was fine but not pretty enough. 

26's jaunt eastbound around the graduate houses, Harry's, and Chauncey Hill Mall with all those turns was a bit much for some traffic, but a sensible option would have been to run it with 231 south on the new bypass, then maybe over Teal (if they insist on using Teal in the state network) to Sagamore, then up that to 26's old routing (South St.).  Bonus: this would have allowed 38 to end at another route (26 instead of 25/52 or just 52 as it has been before) vs. ending all by itself like it does now.
I don't know why 38 wasn't just made to turn south to meet at us 52 at teal road. Teal road is in terrible shape, thankfully they will be redoing the entire road and fixing the 4th St intersection.
Glad to hear that! :clap: I definitely agree that Teal Rd. should be extended to meet IN-38. It would only have to be 0.36 mi. long, and the only building in the way is an (easily replaceable/relocatable) Chase Bank.
Teal extending over to 38 would only make sense if 38 turned onto it to meet where 52 turns onto Teal; it would be weird but no weirder than what exists now (southbound on Sagamore, intersect the end of 38 at one light and then meet 52 at the next straight or to the right, with 38 never touching 52).  It would save a bit of messing around  through both intersections for people doing 38 WB to 52 WB or 52 EB to 38 EB; there are probably plenty of such people considering that 38 is a great shot out to 65.  I have been known to cut through the driveway near the bank and Bed Bath & Beyond or the lot of the former Hobby Lobby to make the move from Teal EB to 38.

The whole thing around Lafayette is bonkers.  It makes me wonder if IU people infiltrated to stick it to Purdue or something. 

38 making the hairpin around to end at Teal would be odd-looking but would at least make it connect legally.  It seems that INDOT doesn't care about such things, though. 

It is weird that the powers that be won't allow a US route to be moved from an Interstate-grade road to a surface road (see US 117 in NC--granted, NCDOT just did what it wanted to anyway) but moving US 52 from a four-lane divided alignment onto a city street that goes down to 2 lanes, passes school zones and the county fairgrounds with associated backups and issues at every fairground event or high school football game, is A-OK. 

They really need to do like other states that allow route numbers to be posted over city/county roads.  There isn't much reason not to except for how the accounting and responsibilities are assigned, and drivers don't care who paves vs. who erects signs.  38 ending and reappearing in Frankfort only to disappear again in Lafayette, this time for good, at an intersection near but not at any other state route, is stupid.  25 and 26 pulling their disappearing acts now is stupid as well.  I'm still shocked that 225 remains; it must be because of the old one-lane bridge.  Its end at old 25 makes no sense.  If they wanted to, they could have 225 go one way (or the other) on old 25 and meet 25, but once again, that puts miles back in the state system that INDOT doesn't want and can't afford due to the law.  If 25, 26, and 225 could be signed over city and county roads, it would be a boon to connectivity and continuity, and aid greatly in navigation.
Realigning 38 would be a good idea. INDOT is trying their best to fuck up Bloomington's routes too, but it won't be as bad as Lafayette's mess. SR 45, 446, and 48 are all routes indot is dying to kill. Also SR 22's routing is bullshit, just decommission it from 29 to kokomo and east of 31 just sign it as us 35. I think the only reason why 931 exists is because kokomo wanted to carmelize it (keystone Pkwy) and indot refused to give them the money for it. So it's likely to turn into 930 and 933 and 912 a road indot gives no shits about.

mukade

I am not a huge fan of all of the discontinuous state road numbers either. I would rather see them marked irrespective of which agency is responsible for maintenance, but I think this would be the other side:
- INDOT does not want to be in the business of improving and maintaining city streets. Municipalities should control that
- Most people now use GPS to navigate so route numbers are less important
- The way people drive has changed a lot since the state highway systems were created. For example, the old SR 25 and SR 26 routings through Lafayette are not highways by any stretch unlike when they were built. Even SR 931 in Kokomo functions as a road to serve local drivers so I can see why this would not need a route number. INDOT wants to focus mostly on inter-city highways and freeways/expressways
- There is nothing stopping the local agencies from improving signage for travellers, and I think most cities are making some effort to do that.

I think the bigger problems with the Lafayette area are:
- Lack of a sufficient and uncongested east-west road
- The lack of a direct connection between the US 231 bypass and I-65. Having this would also serve to tie SR 25 (Hoosier Heartland) to US 231.

INDOT has invested a lot in both Lafayette and Bloomington in the last 4-5 years, and these improvements have been critical. Its a shame that poor decisions like the US 52 routing overshadow the good that was done.

silverback1065

There really should be county highways.

US 41

I think the towns that get their routes decommissioned should put up Business Route signs for where the old highway used to be. For example US 50 in Bedford was rerouted north along SR 37, but the old 50 is now Business 50.  It is faster to take Business 50 in this situation as well. It would make sense for cities like Terre Haute, Lafayette, and Indianapolis to sign the old highways that have been recently decommissioned as Business Routes.

Map of Bedford: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8505693,-86.484364,14z
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silverback1065

Meridian and Washington would be great business routes, Binford should still be SR 37 or at least CH 37

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: US 41 on September 02, 2015, 08:05:28 AM
I think the towns that get their routes decommissioned should put up Business Route signs for where the old highway used to be. For example US 50 in Bedford was rerouted north along SR 37, but the old 50 is now Business 50.  It is faster to take Business 50 in this situation as well. It would make sense for cities like Terre Haute, Lafayette, and Indianapolis to sign the old highways that have been recently decommissioned as Business Routes.

Map of Bedford: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8505693,-86.484364,14z

When INDOT decommissioned 311, 403 and part of 160 in Clark County, the county signed the roads as County Highway 311, 403 and 160. 
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

silverback1065

#543
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 02, 2015, 08:47:42 AM
Quote from: US 41 on September 02, 2015, 08:05:28 AM
I think the towns that get their routes decommissioned should put up Business Route signs for where the old highway used to be. For example US 50 in Bedford was rerouted north along SR 37, but the old 50 is now Business 50.  It is faster to take Business 50 in this situation as well. It would make sense for cities like Terre Haute, Lafayette, and Indianapolis to sign the old highways that have been recently decommissioned as Business Routes.

Map of Bedford: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8505693,-86.484364,14z

When INDOT decommissioned 311, 403 and part of 160 in Clark County, the county signed the roads as County Highway 311, 403 and 160.

The shields I've seen for those roads are horrible looking, I wonder why they didn't use the blue pentagon shield.  They tried and failed at copying the standard SR Shield

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: silverback1065 on September 02, 2015, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 02, 2015, 08:47:42 AM
When INDOT decommissioned 311, 403 and part of 160 in Clark County, the county signed the roads as County Highway 311, 403 and 160.

The shields I've seen for those roads are horrible looking, I wonder why they didn't use the blue pentagon shield

I've never seen a blue pentagon shield in Indiana.  In fact, I've never seen a shield for any county road anywhere in Indiana until these, so I doubt there is even a state standard for such a thing.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

silverback1065

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 02, 2015, 08:54:29 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 02, 2015, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 02, 2015, 08:47:42 AM
When INDOT decommissioned 311, 403 and part of 160 in Clark County, the county signed the roads as County Highway 311, 403 and 160.

The shields I've seen for those roads are horrible looking, I wonder why they didn't use the blue pentagon shield

I've never seen a blue pentagon shield in Indiana.  In fact, I've never seen a shield for any county road anywhere in Indiana until these, so I doubt there is even a state standard for such a thing.

i don't think indiana allows, or maybe more accurately, has no standards or business or county highways, which explains why there are so few.  I've seen only 1 and it's gone now. it was for the gap of SR 144 it was signed as Johnson County 144. http://www.highwayexplorer.com/Gallery.php?id=544&section=11442&terminus=Eastern+Terminus On a side note, SR 44's routing is also bullshit.  I can't confirm this, but I thought elkhart's CR 17 had at least one blue pentagon shield on a bgs in the past, but I'm not sure. 

mukade

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 02, 2015, 08:54:29 AM
I've never seen a blue pentagon shield in Indiana.  In fact, I've never seen a shield for any county road anywhere in Indiana until these, so I doubt there is even a state standard for such a thing.

I've seen 3 blue pentagon shields:
- Montgomery County right off I-74 at SR 32
- CR 144 in Johnson County (between the two sections of SR 144)
- Signs for Elkhart County CR 17 on the Toll Road

silverback1065

Quote from: mukade on September 02, 2015, 06:33:20 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 02, 2015, 08:54:29 AM
I've never seen a blue pentagon shield in Indiana.  In fact, I've never seen a shield for any county road anywhere in Indiana until these, so I doubt there is even a state standard for such a thing.

I've seen 3 blue pentagon shields:
- Montgomery County right off I-74 at SR 32
- CR 144 in Johnson County (between the two sections of SR 144)
- Signs for Elkhart County CR 17 on the Toll Road
Interesting, man I wish Indiana had more of these

billtm

So why can't INDOT legally afford to put more road miles back into the state system? :hmmm:

silverback1065

Quote from: billtm on September 02, 2015, 07:31:59 PM
So why can't INDOT legally afford to put more road miles back into the state system? :hmmm:
It's a stupid law in our Constitution (or some statute) that disallows us from having so many miles of highways. Not sure why we have a cap at all really, it has a lot of unintended consequences. I can't remember the exact number but it's not a very high number and 69 is eating into it.
I think there's also a law saying every county seat must be connected to the state highway system in some way. And I think more specifically the courthouse/government offices must be connected in some way.



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