Forum Bullies- How long must we tolerate them

Started by roadman65, January 03, 2014, 12:11:00 PM

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mass_citizen

Quote from: 707 on January 04, 2014, 01:20:59 PM
I can't tell you how many times bullies have gotten me on several different websites. Being young and autistic isn't easy, even to the point where I've been bullied online and in real life. I've even left this forum because I've been somewhat picked on. These days, I've grown to want to fight it rather than running away from it all.

I'd second that comment. lets face it, as a forum of "geeks" I think its understandable that many people would be sensitive to any sort of "bullying". obviously many of us have been bullied at one point in our life and its ridiculous for a fellow geek to bully on this site. people can disagree without being snide or sarcastic. if the tone of the thread is obviously to be funny or there is a running joke, then that's fine. but to insult an honest opinion or statement is out of line.


authenticroadgeek

I'm necroposting, time for people to get upset at me. :clap:

Alps


Katavia

Quote from: Alps on January 03, 2014, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on January 03, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
And if the above doesn't work, that's what the Ignore List option is for in your user profile.*

*Although it won't help much if you let your curiosity get the better of you or someone quotes who you're ignoring later in the thread.
The MTR killfile... that brings me back.
MTR killfile??? :confused:
(Former) pizza delivery driver with a penchant for highways.
On nearly every other online platform I go by Kurzov - Katavia is a holdover from the past.

kphoger

Since this thread has already been exhumed, I might as well state my opinion.

I've only ever been active in three online forums, and in only two of them has my membership been active enough to have a real feel for how moderation is handled. There's this one, and one other that I am currently active in.

In the other forum, there are high standards for gentlemanly conduct, and posts are deleted if they are more than the slightest bit vulgar in content. Newbies are encouraged, and coming across as superior or the final authority is actively discouraged. Many, many members have made specific mention that this gentlemanly atmosphere is a breath of fresh air in a world of forums filled with negativity, snarkiness, and bickering. I too have felt it, and have spent considerable time away from aaroads in favor of a forum with less hostility.

Now, I have gotten into arguments on here in the past, but they were almost always non-roadgeek-related topics that reasonably should not have been allowed to develop, and I hold myself to blame for that at least as much as the moderators; after all, I am a responsible adult. More to the point, though, the arguments I've found myself in have all for the most part been intelligent and reasonable, with other members legitimately expressing their opinions and keeping their personal attacks against me to a clear minimum. I have not often been subjected to quick verbal slaps like "yawn", vulgarity, and the like.

If a member takes offense at a clearly presented, thought-out reply from someone of a contrary opinion, then maybe that member is not cut out to be part of an online forum. But I should also say that cutting, personal attacks using coarse language are both intended to and should be expected to upset the other party. Allowing that sort of behavior without censure is tacitly promoting an atmosphere of unwelcome and discord. New members will feel like leaving, veteran members will feel like disappearing, and the amicable exchange of experience and ideas that aaroads should be devolves into a clique.

Should there be more active censure my the moderators when it comes to incisive language and content? That is something the leadership has to decide on their own, and on this site the decision is generally to allow as slack of a leash as reasonable. But they also need to understand that a hostile environment both hinders people from becoming active contributors and discourages people from remaining so.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hotdogPi

Quote from: kphoger on April 10, 2016, 02:38:30 PM
I've only ever been active in three online forums, and in only two of them has my membership been active enough to have a real feel for how moderation is handled. There's this one, and one other that I am currently active in.

In the other forum, there are high standards for gentlemanly conduct, and posts are deleted if they are more than the slightest bit vulgar in content. Newbies are encouraged, and coming across as superior or the final authority is actively discouraged. Many, many members have made specific mention that this gentlemanly atmosphere is a breath of fresh air in a world of forums filled with negativity, snarkiness, and bickering. I too have felt it, and have spent considerable time away from aaroads in favor of a forum with less hostility.

Just making sure: the other forum is not the one that split off from this one, right?
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

kphoger

The other forum is not road-related at all, and I didn't know until right now that there was a forum that split off.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hbelkins

Quote from: 1 on April 10, 2016, 02:46:58 PM
Just making sure: the other forum is not the one that split off from this one, right?

No, that forum is even less-moderated than this one. It's also very inactive. I guess they never got the traction they wanted.

As for moderation where language is concerned, I'm not offended by cursing, although I don't think it really adds anything of value to a discussion. I think some people just like to drop f-bombs for shock value. I've used coarse language in the past, although it's something I'm trying to get away from as I rediscover my faith, but when I did, it was always in private conversation and not somewhere that's I'd be ashamed if my parents or grandparents or former schoolteachers saw what I had written.

I make no bones about the fact that I prefer an unmoderated forum, but let's face it, MTR is dead. Last time I went over there, a couple of weeks ago, some idiot spammer had taken over and there were only a couple of legitimate conversations going on, plus a couple that had been necro-ed from years ago. But if there is one aspect of moderation I wish would be more active, it's for foul language. Like I said, it doesn't offend me, but I don't think it add anything of value to the conversation.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Brandon

Quote from: Katavia on April 10, 2016, 08:46:47 AM
Quote from: Alps on January 03, 2014, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on January 03, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
And if the above doesn't work, that's what the Ignore List option is for in your user profile.*

*Although it won't help much if you let your curiosity get the better of you or someone quotes who you're ignoring later in the thread.
The MTR killfile... that brings me back.
MTR killfile??? :confused:

Usenet used to have what was called a "killfile", basically blocking the offending user's posts from being seen (and consequently annoying) the person using the killfile.  Typically you'd see an argument and then one of them would say *PLONK!* as the announcement that the offender had gone into the killfile.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

bandit957

Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2016, 03:16:33 PM
No, that forum is even less-moderated than this one. It's also very inactive. I guess they never got the traction they wanted.

That's because someone hacked it and knocked it offline, and a lot of people stopped using it then. But it's still around.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

OracleUsr

Quote from: Brandon on April 12, 2016, 05:31:20 PM
Quote from: Katavia on April 10, 2016, 08:46:47 AM
Quote from: Alps on January 03, 2014, 06:41:55 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on January 03, 2014, 06:19:35 PM
And if the above doesn't work, that's what the Ignore List option is for in your user profile.*

*Although it won't help much if you let your curiosity get the better of you or someone quotes who you're ignoring later in the thread.
The MTR killfile... that brings me back.
MTR killfile??? :confused:

Usenet used to have what was called a "killfile", basically blocking the offending user's posts from being seen (and consequently annoying) the person using the killfile.  Typically you'd see an argument and then one of them would say *PLONK!* as the announcement that the offender had gone into the killfile.

Boy that, too, takes me back, though misc.transport.road usually didn't have nearly as much trouble as others.  One of the groups I subscribed to had a real jack--- who changed his name just slightly, along with his emal address, and spewed some of the most vile posts you could imagine.  I finally got a newsreader that could block based on content and axed his crap from my posts based on his signature.
Anti-center-tabbing, anti-sequential-numbering, anti-Clearview BGS FAN

Pete from Boston

Don't participate in forums where people treat people badly.  Don't participate with someone with enough misery in their head to start fights online (or anywhere else).  Misery has tremendous endurance.  Don't sweat any of this because you'll be a lot happier letting it go.

bandit957

Quote from: OracleUsr on April 13, 2016, 05:55:23 PM
Boy that, too, takes me back, though misc.transport.road usually didn't have nearly as much trouble as others.  One of the groups I subscribed to had a real jack--- who changed his name just slightly, along with his emal address, and spewed some of the most vile posts you could imagine.

Sounds like the guy who kept following me around on Usenet and attacking me in every newsgroup.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

paulthemapguy

Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 13, 2016, 06:20:35 PM
Don't participate in forums where people treat people badly.  Don't participate with someone with enough misery in their head to start fights online (or anywhere else).  Misery has tremendous endurance.  Don't sweat any of this because you'll be a lot happier letting it go.
Just want to do a QFT and restate this so that everyone reads it.  This is so true; everyone should take note of this!  Excellently said.
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
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National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

hbelkins

Quote from: OracleUsr on April 13, 2016, 05:55:23 PM
Boy that, too, takes me back, though misc.transport.road usually didn't have nearly as much trouble as others.  One of the groups I subscribed to had a real jack--- who changed his name just slightly, along with his emal address, and spewed some of the most vile posts you could imagine.  I finally got a newsreader that could block based on content and axed his crap from my posts based on his signature.

Randy Hersh did that a lot. He would change his email address or handle every so often to avoid killfiles. Back before I lost access to my Usenet provider but after he died, I went and cleaned out my killfile. I'll bet I had at least 12-15 different identities of his plonked.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Duke87

Quote from: hbelkins on April 10, 2016, 03:16:33 PM
As for moderation where language is concerned, I'm not offended by cursing, although I don't think it really adds anything of value to a discussion. I think some people just like to drop f-bombs for shock value. I've used coarse language in the past, although it's something I'm trying to get away from as I rediscover my faith, but when I did, it was always in private conversation and not somewhere that's I'd be ashamed if my parents or grandparents or former schoolteachers saw what I had written.

{...}But if there is one aspect of moderation I wish would be more active, it's for foul language. Like I said, it doesn't offend me, but I don't think it add anything of value to the conversation.

The internet has played no small part in this, but there is definitely an overall trend in American society in general towards profanity being considered not a big deal. Increasingly if you try to put a lid on the use of profanity you get seen as an old-fashioned puritanical killjoy.

That's not to say there isn't something to be said for limiting its use in some contexts. It is very difficult to be eloquent when using profanity, and indeed there is an art to crafting nasty insults or emphasizing points without using any bad words - which will be lost on anyone who tries to accomplish the same by just throwing a bunch of swear words in and calling it good.

That said, use of profanity can make one appear more genuine and honest. We do after all live in a society where carefully crafted speech is how marketers and politicians tell lies.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Scott5114

I've gotten enough pushback from members of the community when attempting to moderate that I figure the forum we have now is the forum people want.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

roadman65

After dzlabe it makes me take a look at things more clearer.  Here is a guy who is despised by many, but yet keeps on coming back.  Yet, I was complaining at the beginning when inerstateng was bullying me, and he was because everything I said that he disliked was said by NE2, and that I-366 85 mph kid, but I never saw the guy get upset about them nor complain to the moderators about them like he did me.  I should have just took it as a disagreement on certain subject and moved on, however when I first came on here and one specific someone started heavy insults of my character when I thought the then Orlando Orange County Expressway Authority placed another mainline plaza in a rural area after several years earlier removing another plaza just to consolidate and have less stopping now was really bad.

Two people chimed in and said that I was crazy and stupid for not seeing the fact that someday Avalon Park and the International Corporate Park Blvd. interchange will someday sprawl and they were taking normal measures to plan for that day.  Not to mention the fact the tolls did not go up, just spread out and the reverse of consolidation was made as well as a mention as well that I was being a Republican and its the Right side of politics in Orlando that is trying to get rid of toll roads as well.   However, at the time I worked at a commercial laundry in Orlando with a very Democratic Union (they gave union dues to Obama's campaign) and mostly borderline poverty line African Americans working there. They all believed the opposite of what NE2 believes that its the White Republicans who want the poor blacks to pay the tolls on the 408 or use the clogged local roadways.

It made my head spin out of control hearing on here that people want the tolls and yet all my time here in Orlando people I worked with use to call FL 408 "The East-West Rip Off" because no one liked paying the tolls especially when the OOECA threatened us all by planning to raise the tolls by a quarter because no one was using the extensions of FL 408 at that specific time.  Most people I worked with were ignorant too and thought that volume selling is the key, therefore keep the tolls at 50 cents and you will get more riders on it, or even lower it to 25 cents a plaza and you will therefore have your money made.  Yes, folks it was not the usual GOP verses Liberal talk in those conversations either.  In fact both Democrat thinkers and Republican thinkers alike hated the Orlando toll rates all along.  NE2 was the first to say that its the local issues between the GOP and the Dems and that historically through implication of his posts, that the Orlando Republican Party has always wanted the tolls out and the Democrats wanted them in just to take the burden off the tax payers.  Of course that was after I mentioned the fact that radio personality Bud Hedinger mentioned that he thinks toll roads should be abolished and for those of you who do not live in Central Florida, Hedinger is a small Rush Limbaugh and bases his show in the same format at El Rushbo!

Then it was said my posts were dumb because I called the NJ 35 and Laurence Parkway intersection dumb.  I only made a few posts, but one person thought he knew me so well to come to a conclusion so fast based on just a couple of posts as I was only on here for a couple of weeks when he made it and very few posts.  Then I was told by some other road geek friend I knew before I joined here that he knew some of the users here and e the one specific one  I mentioned here. It was that he had a disorder that prevented him from graduating school and forced him to be the ward of his parents and I should just let his bullying slide.  Later on I told him that I would not as I felt the guy was using his health to be obnoxious and steal us workers SS so he could sit at home.  He defriended my on Facebook and told me to F Off and never talk to him again, and afterwards became a bully himself to me and demand I give him proof for all the things I remembered as a child from NJ Roads and not post based on my memory if I got into discussions here about the past.  Not too mention he was not too fond of my FB rants on politics and religion, and he told the owner of this forum that he also did not like me because he disliked my choice of party (which I belong to none anyway, but he thinks I am a GOP member) and that he is very Liberal, so he also holds that against me as well.

Now I have learned some.  Since the ignore feature on here was found, I use it and I block some of these over opinionated trolls.  I learned that we can disagree and even though many on here feel that we should all agree, Jeff brought up something interesting, that even when we argue with someone we do not like, we still are doing the very purpose of this board and that is discussing.

So keep in mind with dzlabe, you argue back with him when he calls you out, you are engaging in that discussion that you dislike and complain about.  If we all stopped trying to make him understand or even ignore him, then he most likely would go away.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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