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I-66 HO/T Lanes

Started by froggie, January 23, 2015, 02:46:25 PM

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mrsman

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 21, 2016, 09:00:50 PM
Quote from: mrsman on August 21, 2016, 04:30:25 PM
So I guess a more precise way of explaining I-66 EB during morning rush is not that a majority of the traffic exits at Ballston (we see that that isn't true based on AADT counts), but that enough of the traffic does exit there so as to provide a significant reduction of congestion at that point.

[Emphasis added above]

Yes, sometimes a small reduction in traffic can lead to a big improvement in performance.

Quote from: mrsman on August 21, 2016, 04:30:25 PM
Something similar happens on the outerloop of the Beltway in MD.  The road is very congested on the outerloop (westbound) from I-95/I-495 in College Park until Georgia Avenue, but once you get passed Georgia, the road generally flows at speed limit all the way to the 270 split.

I think it is a different phenomenon at work there.  The 2015 AADT published in the Highway Location Reference says the two-way AADT at Md. 97 (Georgia) is 218,800 (Exit 31); just east of Md. 185 (Connecticut) (Exit 33) it is 227,870; and at Md. 355  (Rockville Pike) (just east of I-270) it is 212,690.

I've been driving that section of freeway over 40 years, and I believe the congestion eases once the last of heavy entry of traffic (in AM on the Outer Loop - headed toward employment in Bethesda, along I-270 and in Northern Virginia) has entered from Md. 97, everything flows more smoothly.

While I work in Downtown DC and take Metro to work, I live equally close to the Colesville Rd exit and the Georgia Ave exit of the Beltway.  Those I know who work in the west all would tell you that you should take surface streets toward Georgia and enter the Beltway there in the AM rush hour and not to enter it from Colesville or any point earlier.

THe few times that I'm driving about during AM rush I can vouch for this.  People from my neighborhood can face a small amount of congestion leading to Georgia/Forest Glen and then they can take the ramp to the outer loop and are relatively smooth sailing towards 270 or the American Legion Bridge.

And I tell this to my wife who now has physical therapy appointments in Gaithersburg in the morning.  Even though my son's day care is very close to US 29/ Beltway, she is better off taking side streets to the Georgia Ave on-ramp to get to physical therapy.

Sadly, the reverse is not true.  Everyone has to suffer on the inner loop in the afternoon.


cpzilliacus

Quote from: mrsman on September 16, 2016, 04:46:16 PM
While I work in Downtown DC and take Metro to work, I live equally close to the Colesville Rd exit and the Georgia Ave exit of the Beltway.  Those I know who work in the west all would tell you that you should take surface streets toward Georgia and enter the Beltway there in the AM rush hour and not to enter it from Colesville or any point earlier.

That merge from southbound U.S. 29 to westbound [Outer Loop] I-495 has been brutal for years, ever since I lived in Four Corners (I moved away in the mid-1980's). Concur with taking Forest Glen Road, which usually works better, or even Dennis Avenue, to Md. 97 (Georgia Avenue) then south to I-495.

Quote from: mrsman on September 16, 2016, 04:46:16 PM
THe few times that I'm driving about during AM rush I can vouch for this.  People from my neighborhood can face a small amount of congestion leading to Georgia/Forest Glen and then they can take the ramp to the outer loop and are relatively smooth sailing towards 270 or the American Legion Bridge.

You are beyond the massive funnel that are the interchanges at I-95, Md. 650 and U.S. 29 if you enter from Md. 97, especially southbound.

Quote from: mrsman on September 16, 2016, 04:46:16 PM
And I tell this to my wife who now has physical therapy appointments in Gaithersburg in the morning.  Even though my son's day care is very close to US 29/ Beltway, she is better off taking side streets to the Georgia Ave on-ramp to get to physical therapy.

If you want to pay the tolls, I think you are far enough north that you should consider taking either Md. 650 or U.S. 29 north to Md. 200, then  take that west to Md. 355 or I-270.  I suspect this will be a faster and less-stressful trip than I-495.  That may be true even if the day care is in Four Corners.  Northbound U.S. 29 is usually not bad in the mornings.

Quote from: mrsman on September 16, 2016, 04:46:16 PM
Sadly, the reverse is not true.  Everyone has to suffer on the inner loop in the afternoon.

Seems to thin-out some east of Md. 185 (that being the last of the "funnel" exits eastbound on the Inner Loop), but it's never much fun.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: New Va. HOT lane tolls to be a fraction of I-66 estimates

QuotePeople who choose to pay a toll to drive alone on Interstate 66 inside the Beltway next year may feel some pangs of jealousy when they see the bill. Toll prices in a similar conversion of HOV lanes to HOV or toll lanes in the Hampton Roads area are expected to be just a fraction of the cost.

QuoteA Virginia Department of Transportation presentation to the Commonwealth Transportation Board last week indicated that expected tolls on the stretch of Interstate 64 between Interstate 564 and just beyond Interstate 264 would be less than $2.

QuoteWhile tolls would only be in effect at rush hour on I-66, the tolls are expected to be around $6.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

epzik8

So I just wanted clarification that the left HOV lanes that begin and end at Haymarket are open to all traffic outside of the posted weekday morning hours? That's how I interpret it.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
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1995hoo

Quote from: epzik8 on October 04, 2016, 09:45:13 PM
So I just wanted clarification that the left HOV lanes that begin and end at Haymarket are open to all traffic outside of the posted weekday morning hours? That's how I interpret it.

For now, yes, until they rebuild the highway to have two barrier- or pylon-separated lanes on the left, at which time said lanes will be 24-7 HO/T lanes.

Technically the lane that ends at Haymarket is HOV during the afternoon rush hour, not morning, but I knew what you meant. No doubt someone else would have rushed to "correct" your "ignorance," though.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 05, 2016, 07:31:19 AM
Technically the lane that ends at Haymarket is HOV during the afternoon rush hour, not morning, but I knew what you meant. No doubt someone else would have rushed to "correct" your "ignorance," though.

Was out there this past weekend. The eastbound side of I-66 now has the concurrent-flow HOV starting just  east of the U.S. 15 interchange. 

Curiously, the westbound HOV lane extends some distance past U.S. 15 before it drops. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

74/171FAN

I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Jmiles32

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2016/11/03/virginia-picks-new-partner-to-build-i-66-hot-lanes/

Transburban is not in on this one, instead it is the I-66 mobility partners which related to the Spanish tolling company Cintra. Although Cintra doesn't exactly have a good recent record(Texas Route 130 bankruptcy, I-77 HOT lanes in NC, and US-460 Scandal) this does to be appear to be a very smart deal for the VA taxpayers as it looks like they won't be paying a dime.
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

1995hoo

Adam Tuss reports the I-66 outside-the-Beltway HO/T lanes project has run into a big problem–they didn't account for the WMATA power station near the Dunn Loring Metro, and it seems they may want to build a flyover to the Beltway that would rise 30 feet above Gallows Road! Hard to visualize that (I should note I have not watched the video at that link).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: 1995hoo on April 05, 2017, 09:01:15 PM
Adam Tuss reports the I-66 outside-the-Beltway HO/T lanes project has run into a big problem–they didn't account for the WMATA power station near the Dunn Loring Metro, and it seems they may want to build a flyover to the Beltway that would rise 30 feet above Gallows Road! Hard to visualize that (I should note I have not watched the video at that link).

Quote"You can imagine this ramp is going to go right over - an interstate is going to go right over where we walk," Heier said. "To see a new ramp pop up that's going to go right up over where we shop and walk, it just tells us that they didn't get it the first time."

Best I can tell, this person (a 'community activist'...yay) has no clue what the plans are.  From what I'm looking at, the flyover will basically be above the existing roadway.  It's not exactly going up over where she shops and walks.

froggie

QuoteIt's not exactly going up over where she shops and walks.

Yes it will.  If they go the flyover route, it'll have to be high enough to clear Gallows Rd, which carries a lot of pedestrians walking to/from the Metro station.

As for "that person", I've had correspondence with her before...I'd say she's very aware of what the plans are as she lives in the neighborhood that will be most affected by right-of-way purchases.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: froggie on April 05, 2017, 10:17:46 PM
QuoteIt's not exactly going up over where she shops and walks.

Yes it will.  If they go the flyover route, it'll have to be high enough to clear Gallows Rd, which carries a lot of pedestrians walking to/from the Metro station.

As for "that person", I've had correspondence with her before...I'd say she's very aware of what the plans are as she lives in the neighborhood that will be most affected by right-of-way purchases.

A bridge going over where someone walks is hardly an unusual occurrence.  No different than a walkway going over a highway.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 05, 2017, 09:57:11 PM
Best I can tell, this person (a 'community activist'...yay) has no clue what the plans are.  From what I'm looking at, the flyover will basically be above the existing roadway.  It's not exactly going up over where she shops and walks.

It would have to be a high flyover, since the difference in grade between I-66 and the surface on which the power substation site is rather substantial. 

I  mentioned this in another forum:

QuoteKeep in mind that this is a traction power station for WMATA's Metrorail system and is hard up against the right lane of eastbound I-66. It does not power Dominion Virginia Power customers in that area of Fairfax County.

Probably cheaper to move the traction  power station.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

I looked at the diagrams on the transform66 site, but I'm having trouble putting the separate ones together in my kind and I can't picture where that flyover would go.

Either way, I can't say as I'd necessarily blame people who live there for opposing it. As cp says, it would be one high ramp and you don't want that near your condo/house. On the other hand, even though I can't necessarily blame them for opposing it, I'm also not totally sympathetic to people who buy housing right near a major interchange. Years ago my father told me I should never buy a house on a main road or next to an Interstate because of the risk of losing property to eminent domain when the road needs to be widened. This isn't quite the same thing, but it's pretty similar conceptually in terms of unsightliness and the like. If you choose to live so close to a major highway junction, you're putting yourself at risk of having your life disrupted when it comes time to improve the road.

That interchange at the Beltway and I-66 looks like it'll be interesting to see when it's done, either way.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Jmiles32

http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2017/04/i-66-express-lanes-hit-speed-bump-over-design-changes/
http://www.insidenova.com/headlines/i--express-lanes-pushback-on-design-delays-fairfax-portion/article_865f2102-25e8-11e7-a0a6-471dc157b0ef.html

Looks like that troublesome Metro power station along with nearby residential complaints, have for at least in the meantime delayed the I-66 outside the beltway project from US-50 to I-495 while it goes under design review. The rest of the project from US-50 to Gainesville is clear to proceed with an air quality analysis from the region's transportation planning board.

If it was up to me, I would have the I-66 HOT lanes end about half a mile after Exit 62 Nutley Street and then basically have a similar setup from there as the southern end of the I-495 HOT lanes approaching the Springfield Interchange. I think all this would require is widening I-66 from 4 lanes to 5(3 regular, 2 HOT) and avoids building any new flyovers and reconstructing the I-66/I-495 interchange again.
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

mrsman

Quote from: Jmiles32 on April 20, 2017, 07:30:45 PM
http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2017/04/i-66-express-lanes-hit-speed-bump-over-design-changes/
http://www.insidenova.com/headlines/i--express-lanes-pushback-on-design-delays-fairfax-portion/article_865f2102-25e8-11e7-a0a6-471dc157b0ef.html

Looks like that troublesome Metro power station along with nearby residential complaints, have for at least in the meantime delayed the I-66 outside the beltway project from US-50 to I-495 while it goes under design review. The rest of the project from US-50 to Gainesville is clear to proceed with an air quality analysis from the region's transportation planning board.

If it was up to me, I would have the I-66 HOT lanes end about half a mile after Exit 62 Nutley Street and then basically have a similar setup from there as the southern end of the I-495 HOT lanes approaching the Springfield Interchange. I think all this would require is widening I-66 from 4 lanes to 5(3 regular, 2 HOT) and avoids building any new flyovers and reconstructing the I-66/I-495 interchange again.

I agree.   There are plenty of ramps already at that interchange.  From Front Royal, you have ramps to I-495 north and south on the right as well as ramps to the I-495 express lanes on the left (a ramp to express lanes north with a special u-turn ramp to express lanes south).  The notion that the I-66 express lanes should now get more ramps so those points seems ridiculous.  I like your solution too.  Express lanes to Nutley become all-traffic lanes after Nutley.  Those drivers who will continue to I-495 express lanes keep left and those to the general lanes will merge with general traffic in the right lanes.  No new ramp construction at the interchange.

1995hoo

Apparently Gov. McAuliffe said on WTOP this morning they're scrapping the proposed flyover. I have no further details beyond that other than that they have not decided what to do about the power substation, but they will not do the big flyover.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

http://liveblogwp.wtop.com/Event/Ask_the_Governor_with_Terry_McAuliffe_April_26_2017?_ga=1.37005920.1960426794.1493221937

QuoteWASHINGTON – Plans to build a flyover ramp near the Dunn Loring Metro Station as part of the Interstate 66 express lanes project have been scrapped, Gov. Terry McAuliffe said Wednesday.

Neighbors complained that updated design plans released in March were worse than the initial design and said that the state transportation officials weren't listening to their concerns regarding noise, light and the aesthetics of the design. 

"We're canceling it because of the public input," McAuliffe said.

74/171FAN

WTOP: I-66 toll lane ramp ideas detailed for Fairfax Co. officials

There is a powerpoint in the middle of the article that shows diagrams of current toll-lane access plans from US 50 east to the Beltway.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

1995hoo

I tweeted VDOT to ask when the inside-the-Beltway HO/T operations are expected to begin because I want to get an E-ZPass Flex but I also want to avoid the $10 fee for not using it in HOV mode. They responded, "Looks like late 2017." That's a notable change from the original plan for it to be over the summer.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

mrsman

Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 10, 2017, 07:01:32 AM
WTOP: I-66 toll lane ramp ideas detailed for Fairfax Co. officials

There is a powerpoint in the middle of the article that shows diagrams of current toll-lane access plans from US 50 east to the Beltway.

I am glad to see direct exit and entrance ramps to I-66 HOT.  It is important to have direct connections from the express lanes to the nearby surface street.  I-395 and I-495 employ this as well.

Too bad I-270 in MD can't get on board as well.  There are no direct ramps to any exits on the northern side of 270 and one has to aggressively force their way out of the HOV lanes.

1995hoo

I-66 tolling signs are up on the Inner Loop between Route 50 and Route 29 (we exited there today, so I don't know if there are any more). My dashcam malfunctioned so I don't have a picture. The signs will list the rates to Route 7, Washington Boulevard, and the Roosevelt Bridge. Black-on-white signs with no Clearview.

If we go to Tysons tomorrow, I'll make sure to get a picture now that I know they're up.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

HTM Duke

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 27, 2017, 04:52:49 PM
I-66 tolling signs are up on the Inner Loop between Route 50 and Route 29 (we exited there today, so I don't know if there are any more).

One has also been erected on VA-123 north at the exit to VA-267 east/Dulles Connector Rd.  Apart from these two, I haven't seen any others, but I haven't exactly been looking for them either.
List of routes: Traveled | Clinched

1995hoo

Quote from: HTM Duke on May 27, 2017, 08:57:32 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 27, 2017, 04:52:49 PM
I-66 tolling signs are up on the Inner Loop between Route 50 and Route 29 (we exited there today, so I don't know if there are any more).

One has also been erected on VA-123 north at the exit to VA-267 east/Dulles Connector Rd.  Apart from these two, I haven't seen any others, but I haven't exactly been looking for them either.

I think–I did not get a good look due to rush hour traffic–there may be one on westbound Route 29 just west of Rosslyn as it goes up the hill towards the left-side ramp to I-66. I didn't mention it Friday because I didn't get a good look.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Mapmikey

There is one on the outer loop prior to the Dulles Toll Rd but it has been covered since installation.  The two that are visible on the inner loop have a really sharp VA 7 shield (resembles a cutout) IMO...



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