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Interstate 73/74

Started by Voyager, January 18, 2009, 08:09:48 AM

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LM117

Quote from: Roadsguy on May 23, 2017, 12:49:29 PM
Why doesn't I-74 just go to Wilmington?

Because it makes too much sense and that's something that Congress frowns upon.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette


The Ghostbuster

Isn't that the truth! :bigass:

Mergingtraffic

#927
How will the new I-73 corridor from NC-68 to US-220 connect to the current I-73 stub at Joseph Bryan Blvd?  I see via google maps there's also grading continuing northeast from Bryan Blvd.  What will that be?
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sparker

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on May 23, 2017, 04:15:01 PM
How will the new I-73 corridor from US-68 to US-220 connect to the current I-73 stub at Joseph Bryan Blvd?  I see via google maps there's also grading continuing northeast from Bryan Blvd.  What will that be?

That would be the I-840 loop, co-signed with I-73 from I-40 north to Bryan Blvd.   It is planned (eventually) to return to I-40 at the I-85 split east of Greensboro; the last few miles will (again eventually) be multiplexed with I-785, the Greensboro-Danville (VA) spur more or less along US 29.

wdcrft63

Quote from: sparker on May 23, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on May 23, 2017, 12:49:29 PM
Why doesn't I-74 just go to Wilmington?

That would make much more sense than the reverse "C" routing through the swamps -- but the authors of HPC 5, the corridor's authorizing legislative effort, wanted both halves of the composite (73/74) corridor to serve Myrtle Beach & environs; although close, Wilmington wasn't on their radar.  It would take modifying legislation to that extant statute to change matters -- or, as a simpler alternative, designating US 74/76 east of NC 211 a x74 or (blech!) I-74N.  It's likely that some freeway upgrades to US 17 from Wilmington to the SC state line (in conjunction with that state's plans to extend SC 31 northeast to the line) will take place sooner or later; the portion of 74 along NC 211 could then be developed on an "infinitely leisurely" schedule, with the portion not on the original HPC 5 corridor being, in all probability, an extension of I-140.   
Currently there is no plan to upgrade US 17 to interstate standards from I-140 to the South Carolina line. But there are two sections in the works: (1) upgrading the Shallotte bypass by converting the one at-grade intersection to an interchange; and (2) working with SC to extend the SC 31 freeway across the state line to connect to US 17.

sparker

Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 23, 2017, 06:45:11 PM
Quote from: sparker on May 23, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on May 23, 2017, 12:49:29 PM
Why doesn't I-74 just go to Wilmington?

That would make much more sense than the reverse "C" routing through the swamps -- but the authors of HPC 5, the corridor's authorizing legislative effort, wanted both halves of the composite (73/74) corridor to serve Myrtle Beach & environs; although close, Wilmington wasn't on their radar.  It would take modifying legislation to that extant statute to change matters -- or, as a simpler alternative, designating US 74/76 east of NC 211 a x74 or (blech!) I-74N.  It's likely that some freeway upgrades to US 17 from Wilmington to the SC state line (in conjunction with that state's plans to extend SC 31 northeast to the line) will take place sooner or later; the portion of 74 along NC 211 could then be developed on an "infinitely leisurely" schedule, with the portion not on the original HPC 5 corridor being, in all probability, an extension of I-140.   
Currently there is no plan to upgrade US 17 to interstate standards from I-140 to the South Carolina line. But there are two sections in the works: (1) upgrading the Shallotte bypass by converting the one at-grade intersection to an interchange; and (2) working with SC to extend the SC 31 freeway across the state line to connect to US 17.

For NC, these are "baby steps".  While at present they've got a lot on their plate (42/87/587), it's probable that somewhere down the line upgrade attention will be cast upon the entire US 17 corridor -- and these "spot" improvements will be incorporated into that program. 

Henry

Quote from: sparker on May 23, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
Quote from: Roadsguy on May 23, 2017, 12:49:29 PM
Why doesn't I-74 just go to Wilmington?

That would make much more sense than the reverse "C" routing through the swamps -- but the authors of HPC 5, the corridor's authorizing legislative effort, wanted both halves of the composite (73/74) corridor to serve Myrtle Beach & environs; although close, Wilmington wasn't on their radar.  It would take modifying legislation to that extant statute to change matters -- or, as a simpler alternative, designating US 74/76 east of NC 211 a x74 or (blech!) I-74N.  It's likely that some freeway upgrades to US 17 from Wilmington to the SC state line (in conjunction with that state's plans to extend SC 31 northeast to the line) will take place sooner or later; the portion of 74 along NC 211 could then be developed on an "infinitely leisurely" schedule, with the portion not on the original HPC 5 corridor being, in all probability, an extension of I-140.   
It also would've been nice to have I-20 extend into Wilmington, as sort of a consolation prize for not getting I-74, but that won't happen either.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Strider

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on May 23, 2017, 04:15:01 PM
How will the new I-73 corridor from NC-68 to US-220 connect to the current I-73 stub at Joseph Bryan Blvd?  I see via google maps there's also grading continuing northeast from Bryan Blvd.  What will that be?


They are working on connecting the NC 68-US 220 Connector with the current I-73 stub at the I-840/Bryan Blvd interchange in which I-73 will continue west along Bryan Blvd. Technically I-73 stub is currently at the PTI Airport interchange (Exit 109).

amroad17

Does I-73 have the "kink" in it to avoid Lake Brandt (and the wetlands associated with it)?  Or is it built that way to provide access to PTI Airport?

Looking at Google Maps, US 220 wouldn't need an "overabundant" upgrade from NC 68 to Virginia to become I-73.  After the state line, who knows what will occur.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

Bobby5280

Quote from: HenryIt also would've been nice to have I-20 extend into Wilmington, as sort of a consolation prize for not getting I-74, but that won't happen either.

I still think I-20 should be extended to Wilmington. That's a significant shipping port directly East of Atlanta.

I also think it's screwy to propose both I-73 and I-74 into the Myrtle Beach area. It would have been better to have I-74 and/or I-20 go into Wilmington. As it stands a bunch of US-74 in North Carolina is getting upgraded to Interstate quality already, from the intersection of I-26 on East. The US-74 freeway from I-26 ends at Mooresboro, but a few freeway will bypass Shelby and fill in the non-freeway gap to I-85 in Kings Mountain. A new US-74 freeway bypass is getting built SE of Charlotte. Once that is finished there won't be very much non-freeway road the rest of the way to Wilmington. If NC DOT does fill in all of US-74 from I-26 to Wilmington as Interstate quality (barring Independence Road in Charlotte) I wonder if they'll try to get an Interstate designation for that. Something like I-36 would go along with the I-26 and I-16 routes in the same region.

VTGoose

Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2017, 02:38:37 PM
There's probably justification for building an improved US 219 between Erie and I-68, especially since there are disconnected segments of freeway/expressway along the corridor, but not down into West Virginia. Elkins to Marlinton to Lewisburg isn't exactly heavily traveled.

I'm sure the folks who operate Snowshoe and the other ski resorts north of Marlinton would be happy to have an improved highway to help get visitors to their resorts.

Bruce in Blacksburg
"Get in the fast lane, grandma!  The bingo game is ready to roll!"

sparker

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 25, 2017, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: HenryIt also would've been nice to have I-20 extend into Wilmington, as sort of a consolation prize for not getting I-74, but that won't happen either.

I still think I-20 should be extended to Wilmington. That's a significant shipping port directly East of Atlanta.

I also think it's screwy to propose both I-73 and I-74 into the Myrtle Beach area. It would have been better to have I-74 and/or I-20 go into Wilmington. As it stands a bunch of US-74 in North Carolina is getting upgraded to Interstate quality already, from the intersection of I-26 on East. The US-74 freeway from I-26 ends at Mooresboro, but a few freeway will bypass Shelby and fill in the non-freeway gap to I-85 in Kings Mountain. A new US-74 freeway bypass is getting built SE of Charlotte. Once that is finished there won't be very much non-freeway road the rest of the way to Wilmington. If NC DOT does fill in all of US-74 from I-26 to Wilmington as Interstate quality (barring Independence Road in Charlotte) I wonder if they'll try to get an Interstate designation for that. Something like I-36 would go along with the I-26 and I-16 routes in the same region.

I'll predict that it's almost inevitable that NCDOT eventually proposes an Interstate corridor along US 74 between I-26 and Rockingham/I-73/74; I-36 would be as appropriate a designation as any.  Whether it penetrates central Charlotte is another thing; multiplexing around the south side with I-485 might be a possibility.

Getting politics involved in corridor planning is a double-edged sword; on one hand, you get progress where without partisan involvement nothing might have been done -- but on the other hand, you occasionally get things like the largely duplicative I-73 and I-74 dual corridors -- essentially designed to provide service to as many Congressional districts as feasible (at least to those who "signed on" to the original HPC-5 proposal) on both sides of the SC/NC state line.  I know Myrtle Beach is the prime tourist destination in the region (and the crappy T-shirt capital of Western Civilization), but two separate Interstate corridor as area servers? Please!!  However, it's likely the same dynamic as the I-69 (pick your suffix) "trident" in South Texas -- the original backers and/or their successors are having enough trouble getting the show on the road for this project (at least in SC) and they don't want to rock the boat with alternate designations and detours via Wilmington until funding is locked down (at which point adjustments may be considered).  Politicos -- and the agencies dependent upon them for funding -- are skittish folks pathologically afraid of the unknown or uncertain.  The 73/74 concept as originally outlined will likely be dragged on until virtually completed (I'm guessing that the swampy portion along NC 211 will be the last undeveloped segment); any adjustments will likely be last-minute changes or even "retrofits".   

Strider

Quote from: amroad17 on May 25, 2017, 12:49:29 AM
Does I-73 have the "kink" in it to avoid Lake Brandt (and the wetlands associated with it)?  Or is it built that way to provide access to PTI Airport?

Looking at Google Maps, US 220 wouldn't need an "overabundant" upgrade from NC 68 to Virginia to become I-73.  After the state line, who knows what will occur.


It is built to provide a direct access to the PTI Airport from points north of Greensboro. I-73 does not come very close to Lake Brandt, but one of the alternatives in the past before deciding on the US 220-NC 68 Connector is for the interstate to use US 220 all the way from the Loop (in which it will cross Lake Brandt), but it was shot down due to development on Battleground and it was way too expensive to convert Battleground to interstate standards.

The NCDOT spokesperson told me the other day that upgrading the section of US 220 from the temp end of I-73 (Exit 123) to Virginia state is a couple of years away, but is on schedule.

Strider

Quote from: sparker on May 25, 2017, 04:41:15 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 25, 2017, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: HenryIt also would've been nice to have I-20 extend into Wilmington, as sort of a consolation prize for not getting I-74, but that won't happen either.

I still think I-20 should be extended to Wilmington. That's a significant shipping port directly East of Atlanta.

I also think it's screwy to propose both I-73 and I-74 into the Myrtle Beach area. It would have been better to have I-74 and/or I-20 go into Wilmington. As it stands a bunch of US-74 in North Carolina is getting upgraded to Interstate quality already, from the intersection of I-26 on East. The US-74 freeway from I-26 ends at Mooresboro, but a few freeway will bypass Shelby and fill in the non-freeway gap to I-85 in Kings Mountain. A new US-74 freeway bypass is getting built SE of Charlotte. Once that is finished there won't be very much non-freeway road the rest of the way to Wilmington. If NC DOT does fill in all of US-74 from I-26 to Wilmington as Interstate quality (barring Independence Road in Charlotte) I wonder if they'll try to get an Interstate designation for that. Something like I-36 would go along with the I-26 and I-16 routes in the same region.

I'll predict that it's almost inevitable that NCDOT eventually proposes an Interstate corridor along US 74 between I-26 and Rockingham/I-73/74; I-36 would be as appropriate a designation as any.  Whether it penetrates central Charlotte is another thing; multiplexing around the south side with I-485 might be a possibility.

Getting politics involved in corridor planning is a double-edged sword; on one hand, you get progress where without partisan involvement nothing might have been done -- but on the other hand, you occasionally get things like the largely duplicative I-73 and I-74 dual corridors -- essentially designed to provide service to as many Congressional districts as feasible (at least to those who "signed on" to the original HPC-5 proposal) on both sides of the SC/NC state line.  I know Myrtle Beach is the prime tourist destination in the region (and the crappy T-shirt capital of Western Civilization), but two separate Interstate corridor as area servers? Please!!  However, it's likely the same dynamic as the I-69 (pick your suffix) "trident" in South Texas -- the original backers and/or their successors are having enough trouble getting the show on the road for this project (at least in SC) and they don't want to rock the boat with alternate designations and detours via Wilmington until funding is locked down (at which point adjustments may be considered).  Politicos -- and the agencies dependent upon them for funding -- are skittish folks pathologically afraid of the unknown or uncertain.  The 73/74 concept as originally outlined will likely be dragged on until virtually completed (I'm guessing that the swampy portion along NC 211 will be the last undeveloped segment); any adjustments will likely be last-minute changes or even "retrofits".   


I never liked the I-74's routing to Myrtle Beach. The area is proposed to be served by I-73 and that should be enough. I-74 should either go to Wilmington or just end at I-73 near Randleman.

The NC 211 section will more likely be the last segment of I-74 completed, but I can see I-74 going to Wilmington instead of following NC 211.

PColumbus73

Quote

  I know Myrtle Beach is the prime tourist destination in the region (and the crappy T-shirt capital of Western Civilization), but two separate Interstate corridor as area servers?   

As a resident of Myrtle Beach, I giggled at the accuracy of this comment.

But seriously, I-73 is more than enough for the Myrtle Beach area. Locals have not brought up I-74 for a few years. I wonder why North Carolina is not interested in upgrading US 74 between Charlotte and Wilmington, it seems like it would be an opportunity to promote the port in Wilmington.

Revive 755

Quote from: sparker on May 25, 2017, 04:41:15 PM
I know Myrtle Beach is the prime tourist destination in the region (and the crappy T-shirt capital of Western Civilization), but two separate Interstate corridor as area servers?

I can see two - one parallel to US 501 (I-73), and a coastal route parallel to US 17 (partially proposed I-74, but in a more perfect world part of at least a Charleston to Wilmington route).  Maybe even a third one spurring off I-95 and running near US 378 depending how far north of Florence I-73 runs.

sparker

Quote from: PColumbus73 on May 25, 2017, 09:03:00 PM
Quote

  I know Myrtle Beach is the prime tourist destination in the region (and the crappy T-shirt capital of Western Civilization), but two separate Interstate corridor as area servers?   

As a resident of Myrtle Beach, I giggled at the accuracy of this comment.

But seriously, I-73 is more than enough for the Myrtle Beach area. Locals have not brought up I-74 for a few years. I wonder why North Carolina is not interested in upgrading US 74 between Charlotte and Wilmington, it seems like it would be an opportunity to promote the port in Wilmington.
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 25, 2017, 09:21:07 PM
I can see two - one parallel to US 501 (I-73), and a coastal route parallel to US 17 (partially proposed I-74, but in a more perfect world part of at least a Charleston to Wilmington route).  Maybe even a third one spurring off I-95 and running near US 378 depending how far north of Florence I-73 runs.

Forgive me for edging ever closer to the Fictional realm, but a prospective Interstate corridor along US 74 from Rockingham west via Charlotte to I-26 was discussed a few posts back; a truly coastal Interstate corridor mainly along US 17 in NC has been bandied about for some time now; progress (mostly nascent expressway segments) has been made sporadically toward a more modest (at least initially) facility.  But given NC's penchant for new and exciting Interstate designations, it wouldn't be totally unexpected to see a N-S coastal corridor proposed in the not-too-distant future.  However, south of the Myrtle Beach area things take a less promising turn; a combination of environmental and NIMBY activity truncated the potential coastal Interstate corridor at Georgetown.  With the controversies surrounding a short extension of I-526 in the Charleston area still rampant, the probability of a Georgetown-Charleston extension is currently slim & none!  That being said, a later addition to the HPC 5 corridor definition designated a Georgetown-Camden segment, ostensibly along or near US 521, to the corridor litany.  If a lengthy coastal corridor north of Georgetown (i.e., SC 31) and extending through NC ever became reality, this E-W segment, "tweaked" a little, could potentially be a connection to I-95 while avoiding the sensitive coastal areas.   

As far as Myrtle Beach is concerned, a completed I-73 would be more than enough; if it crosses I-95 at or near SC 38, it would make an effective if not seamless routing to the resort area from I-20.  The convoluted I-74 routing is gratuitous; any Interstate deployed along SC 31 would function best if it extended right up the general US 17 alignment to Wilmington -- and possibly beyond. 

ARMOURERERIC

An interstate grade bypass for US 74 North of Shelby is now fully funded with ROW acquisition underway along NC 18, 180 and 150

LM117

Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 25, 2017, 02:46:45 PM
I still think I-20 should be extended to Wilmington. That's a significant shipping port directly East of Atlanta.

I agree. During the mid-2000's while Mike Easley was governor, NC wanted I-20 extended to Wilmington, but SC refused because they were afraid that tourist traffic would be diverted away from Myrtle Beach towards Wilmington. I think it's stupid because if someone wants to go to Myrtle Beach, they're gonna go regardless of whether or not I-20 is extended.

Yet SC wants I-74 to go to Myrtle Beach...
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

LM117

Quote from: sparker on May 25, 2017, 09:59:01 PMThe convoluted I-74 routing is gratuitous; any Interstate deployed along SC 31 would function best if it extended right up the general US 17 alignment to Wilmington -- and possibly beyond.

If it wasn't for Congress screwing things up, having I-74 end in Wilmington and extending I-140 from Wilmington to Myrtle Beach would be the way to go.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

Henry

I'm all for an interstate along US 74, because that would mean NC's largest city getting a true east-west route. Although the I-485 routing is fine, I would prefer to see it go through town via I-85, NC 16, I-277 and the upgraded US 74. Sure, it would go through an urban Breezewood, but it's a straight shot compared to the roundabout alternative.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

wdcrft63

Edging back from fictional territory, here's what I think (from an NC point of view, that is).

Conversion of US 74 to an interstate from I-26 to Wilmington: It's pretty much inevitable. Watch Shelby. With construction on the Shelby Bypass underway, it's only a matter of time before someone in Shelby says, why don't we have this as an interstate highway? And Wilmington is on record wanting an interstate connection along US 74.

Conversion of all of US 17 in NC to an interstate: not impossible, but not any time soon. We'll see additional freeway sections, but I don't see any push for a full interstate.

Connecting I-74 to Myrtle Beach: never going to happen. NCDOT has zero motivation to build that section through the swamps from US 74 to US 17.

LM117

Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 26, 2017, 06:02:09 PM
Edging back from fictional territory, here's what I think (from an NC point of view, that is).

Conversion of US 74 to an interstate from I-26 to Wilmington: It's pretty much inevitable. Watch Shelby. With construction on the Shelby Bypass underway, it's only a matter of time before someone in Shelby says, why don't we have this as an interstate highway? And Wilmington is on record wanting an interstate connection along US 74.

Conversion of all of US 17 in NC to an interstate: not impossible, but not any time soon. We'll see additional freeway sections, but I don't see any push for a full interstate.

Connecting I-74 to Myrtle Beach: never going to happen. NCDOT has zero motivation to build that section through the swamps from US 74 to US 17.

US-74's conversion between I-26 and Wilmington would probably be made up of shorter interstates rather than one long 3-di. I-x26 between I-26 and I-85, I-x74 between I-485 and I-74 in Rockingham. It would certainly be easier than trying to ram one long corridor through Congress.

I don't see a push for US-17 (sans I-87) to become an interstate, either.

I also don't see NCDOT sending I-74 to Myrtle Beach. I-74's routing through the swamps is a huge invitation for lawsuits. Hell, NCDOT is already being sued over the US-70 Havelock Bypass and it hasn't even broke ground yet.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

hbelkins

Granted that I have only traveled the section of US 74 approaching Wilmington from the west once, but I do not remember it being so heavily traveled or plagued by stoplights that it needs to be an interstate. It's fine as it is; as a four-lane surface route.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Strider

Quote from: LM117 on May 26, 2017, 08:15:44 PM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on May 26, 2017, 06:02:09 PM
Edging back from fictional territory, here's what I think (from an NC point of view, that is).

Conversion of US 74 to an interstate from I-26 to Wilmington: It's pretty much inevitable. Watch Shelby. With construction on the Shelby Bypass underway, it's only a matter of time before someone in Shelby says, why don't we have this as an interstate highway? And Wilmington is on record wanting an interstate connection along US 74.

Conversion of all of US 17 in NC to an interstate: not impossible, but not any time soon. We'll see additional freeway sections, but I don't see any push for a full interstate.

Connecting I-74 to Myrtle Beach: never going to happen. NCDOT has zero motivation to build that section through the swamps from US 74 to US 17.

US-74's conversion between I-26 and Wilmington would probably be made up of shorter interstates rather than one long 3-di. I-x26 between I-26 and I-85, I-x74 between I-485 and I-74 in Rockingham. It would certainly be easier than trying to ram one long corridor through Congress.

I don't see a push for US-17 (sans I-87) to become an interstate, either.

I also don't see NCDOT sending I-74 to Myrtle Beach. I-74's routing through the swamps is a huge invitation for lawsuits. Hell, NCDOT is already being sued over the US-70 Havelock Bypass and it hasn't even broke ground yet.


I don't see I-74 going to Myrtle Beach either. There is no reason for it to be. and NCDOT is being sued over US-70 Havelock Bypass? What's up with that?



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