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Author Topic: Canusa Street – How does this work?  (Read 2881 times)

michravera

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #75 on: March 20, 2017, 05:40:40 PM »

I'm a conservative, and I want to let men pee in women's restrooms.  Laissez-faire, baby.

Let them pee next to my daughter and I'm coming after you.

This is a completely serious question: why? I mean, if I had a daughter and I took a wiz next to her, I don't know what injury or danger she'd suffer. Not that it would ever come up, but I assume that'd be the same with any other person—peeing isn't inherently dangerous.

(Figured I may as well ask before the inevitable thread locking.)

+1.  How is the whole bathroom thing even an issue?  I honestly can't understand it.

The problem is that, if you are going to make a bathroom law, it needs to read almost exactly the way that the North Carolina law does. It is completely silly to write a law that says "you can use whatever restroom you want"  What kind of a law is that? Why not just not have a law?
If you just leave it unregulated and leave it to the cops to enforce other laws (peeping, flashing, sexual assault, whatever) as they relate to restrooms (as they have ever since we have had public restrooms), probably have the right answer. But this often requires that you work out a person's intent. Some people are uncomfortable with the concept of intent.
I was given to understand (from reading various magazines) that it was proper to use the restroom of the sex that you portray. If you are a man (or are trying to be one), use the men's. If you are a woman (or are trying to be one), use the women's. I have absolutely no idea how many women who were trying to be men may have been in the men's room with me. I frankly don't care.
The problem with single occupant restrooms is that they require more space and some places have regulations as to the number of restrooms that are required for a building to serve the number of people. It also defeats the trough or dense-packed urinals that are possible and convenient at sporting events.
Single-occupant restrooms also decrease throughput because you can't multiplex people who are going and washing their hands. They turn the "20-second tinkle" into a 90-second wait for the next person. That's not so bad, if you just have to wait behind one person at the AM-PM, but it makes the line intractable at the seventh inning stretch. No solution fits everything. But, sometimes, no law is better than any law!
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vdeane

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #76 on: March 20, 2017, 06:04:25 PM »

It's an issue because there's not really a legal distinction between restrooms, shower rooms, or changing rooms.  People who might not care about mixed sexes in wall-divided restrooms might have a totally different take on mixed sexes in a shared high school shower room.
Do people shower in high school though?  They didn't when I was there, at least not after PE.  Teenagers generally don't like changing/showering in front of each other.
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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #78 on: March 20, 2017, 06:13:11 PM »

It's an issue because there's not really a legal distinction between restrooms, shower rooms, or changing rooms.  People who might not care about mixed sexes in wall-divided restrooms might have a totally different take on mixed sexes in a shared high school shower room.
Do people shower in high school though?  They didn't when I was there, at least not after PE.  Teenagers generally don't like changing/showering in front of each other.
Where and when I went, it was required after PE class.
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cl94

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2017, 06:39:47 PM »

It's an issue because there's not really a legal distinction between restrooms, shower rooms, or changing rooms.  People who might not care about mixed sexes in wall-divided restrooms might have a totally different take on mixed sexes in a shared high school shower room.
Do people shower in high school though?  They didn't when I was there, at least not after PE.  Teenagers generally don't like changing/showering in front of each other.
Where and when I went, it was required after PE class.

People definitely didn't shower when I was in high school. And again, there's a solution: enclosed stalls. We were required to swim for a few weeks. We all found ways to change without exposing ourselves. This meme was us:

Age is key:

http://theoatmeal.com/pl/minor_differences2/locker_room

Of course, the year my class was lopsided to be 3 men and 15 women, it was faster to just change in the locker room stall.
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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2017, 07:56:50 PM »

You can't kill something that's not alive.

What is dead cannot die.

Sure, bring Drowned God into this mess. Some of us prefer to know the Stallion Who Mounts The World will eventually rule (or screw us over).

1995hoo

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2017, 08:25:59 PM »

It's an issue because there's not really a legal distinction between restrooms, shower rooms, or changing rooms.  People who might not care about mixed sexes in wall-divided restrooms might have a totally different take on mixed sexes in a shared high school shower room.
Do people shower in high school though?  They didn't when I was there, at least not after PE.  Teenagers generally don't like changing/showering in front of each other.

In my school we did occasionally (well, at least the guys; I don't know about the girls), but we generally avoided it. Most guys I knew didn't so much care about other guys seeing us nude so much as we didn't want to see other guys nude, whereas women I know have said the female viewpoint is very much the opposite where they don't mind seeing other women but they don't want to be seen themselves. (I recall my mother saying that when she and my father visited the Blue Lagoon in Iceland she was very uncomfortable with the very open locker room environment for that reason even though it was single-sex.)

Regarding unisex restrooms, I thought the one I encountered in Stockholm was a very sensible design with the booth walls and doors going all the way down to the floor and going up quite high. They had red and green lights on the doors to indicate whether they were occupied. Seemed like a sensible enough system to me except that I don't recall there being any urinals. I understand why some women might be uncomfortable with urinals being in there, but really, they are far more efficient for men's needs and they eliminate the very big problem of slobs who whiz on the toilet seat or splatter on the rim (I'm sure most posters here have encountered that at some point, especially in stadium or arena men's rooms). It wouldn't be that hard to have an area off the unisex restroom, perhaps behind a second door, with urinals.

It was a little bit weird to come out of the booth to the sinks and find women there, but that's just because I'm not used to it in this country (and of course I've been to rock concerts when there were more women in the men's room than there were men simply because our lines were shorter). It was no big deal.

I do think there are a fair number of people who would object to some of the noises you hear, even though everybody farts. The men's room at my office is not always a pleasant place to go because some of those guys are astonishingly loud farters. Makes me wonder what the heck they're eating. One of the women who sits near me has grumbled about regularly finding "bloodbaths" on the toilets in the ladies' room. I really wouldn't care to walk in and find that because I wouldn't want to clean that up before I sat down. (But then, earlier this year we had a problem in the men's room where someone took a dump on the floor! That's nasty, period.)

I'm sure I may have mentioned this before: When I was in law school, some of the women complained (justifiably, I think) that in the law library there were two men's rooms (one on the second floor with two shitters and two urinals, one on the fourth floor) but only one ladies' room (on the fourth floor). They had a legitimate beef that they were expected to go upstairs every time. I recall one woman, a very smart lady who later clerked for a Supreme Court justice, routinely used that men's room because it was more convenient. Anyway, the administrators decided the complaint was reasonable and they converted the second-floor men's room into a unisex restroom. But in doing so, they removed the booth walls and doors, one shitter, and one urinal. I asked about that and they said Duke's rules required that if there is a unisex restroom, it must be set up so only one person can use it at a time. They didn't have a response to my point that TWO people could still use it at the same time, but a few weeks later a second sign appeared on the door next to the "Unisex" sign saying "Remember to Lock Door Behind You." I've always wondered whether that was a response to my point or whether someone literally got caught with her pants down.
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Duke87

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2017, 08:55:48 PM »

We never showered after gym in high school, though we did change into and out of gym clothes. Apparently the showers were used by athletes after sporting events or practices but I was never one of them.

I have also encountered the phenomenon of women using the men's room in college because our dorms were gender-segregated by floor and there was only one bathroom per floor, so any visiting girls would need to go upstairs to use their own bathroom, it was simply more convenient for them to use ours, and the guys did not mind. The girls ranged from insisting on having someone guard the door to make sure they were alone in the bathroom until they were done to nonchalantly walking in like it's theirs (seeing a woman's shoes enter the stall next to yours and then hearing all her noises while you're in the process of taking a shit is an interesting experience). Guys visiting the girls floors, of course, were expected to take the stairs to their own bathroom - we were not permitted to use theirs like they were permitted to use ours because they were not comfortable with that.


Now the real question is, how would it work if you had a row of stalls in the women's room whose doors opened into the men's room? Would the women have to clear bathroom customs twice to exit and enter them? Clearly this would be an absurdity created by bathrooms being laid out before we had all of the current security procedures for crossing the walls between them. :spin:
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1995hoo

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2017, 09:24:13 PM »

Heh. Duke87 prompts me to recall my first-year dorm, which was, as you describe, single-sex floors with one bathroom facility at the center of each floor and a hall on either side. However, every bathroom, whether on a male floor or a female floor, had five urinals as well as five booths. That's because when those dorms were built in the 1950s, UVA was all-male (at least the undergraduate programs were, other than the School of Nursing), and they never removed the urinals because leaving them there allowed the university more flexibility in allocating housing in any given year. So sometimes we men would use the urinals on the women's floors. Some of them seriously did not appreciate that; others didn't care.

I remember one time some guy's girlfriend visiting from out of town showered in the men's room because she didn't want to bother to go upstairs. I walked out of the shower to take my towel off the hook (the showers were simply separated by shower curtains and there was nowhere in there to hang a towel other than over the curtain rail) and I encountered her emerging from one of the other showers to get her towel. That was a little bit weird since we had never met before and the first time we saw each other we were both stark naked, but I also didn't especially care because she didn't live in my dorm and we weren't going to see each other all that often. She certainly didn't care since she was showering in a men's room with minimal privacy. (I'm reminded of something a female friend said once was I was back visiting after I'd graduated and I had to change my trousers in a hurry, so I simply changed—I was wearing boxers—in front of her. She said, "It wouldn't matter if you weren't wearing boxers. If you've seen one dick, you've seen them all." To me that comment underscores a difference between the male mind and the female mind, because a more typical view most college-age men I knew would have been, "Well, I've seen tits, but I haven't seen YOURS." I did not say that, BTW. I sort of wish I had because it might have led to an interesting conversation!)
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J N Winkler

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2017, 09:44:12 PM »

I do think there are a fair number of people who would object to some of the noises you hear, even though everybody farts. The men's room at my office is not always a pleasant place to go because some of those guys are astonishingly loud farters. Makes me wonder what the heck they're eating. One of the women who sits near me has grumbled about regularly finding "bloodbaths" on the toilets in the ladies' room.

I can't hear the sounds, but often the smells are enough to create a sense of uncomfortable intimacy.  For example, costive stools have a very distinctive stewed-coffee smell, so you can just imagine the groaning and grunting taking place on the other side of the divider.
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MikeTheActuary

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2017, 11:05:47 PM »

Ona similar note - I wonder what is the history over here?
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9946774,-90.008524,18z


I've posed the question to my father, who retired a few years ago after 30 years at in the Memphis/Shelby County planning department.

Got a response back.

When the school site immediately to the north was originally developed (as "Memphis Prep", a private junior/senior high school), one of the conditions of approval was that those streets would be blocked to avoid them from becoming thoroughfares for folks wanting to take a back way out of the school (Buxton Road wasn't originally blocked at the school property line).

I'm somewhat disappointed that I wasn't aware of this, seeing as how I went to one of the elementary schools that fed into Memphis Prep.  (That elementary school and Memphis Prep have both since closed).

This was, of course, before my days in college, which saw me spend some time in a dorm with unofficially coed showers, and in an apartment where I had three female roommates...both of which were rather educational experiences.  :)
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empirestate

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2017, 11:44:38 PM »

I personally have no problem with showering or changing clothes or peeing in mixed-sex company, but I fully understand I'm in the minority there.

Meanwhile, I'm as modest as most people about that sort of thing, and I'd be just as modest about any children that might be in my care. But it seems there's an assumed link between the presence of adult men and young girls—or any other combination of age and sex—in the same room as each other, and I don't know that that link holds up logically.

That's the threat for the bogeyman argument. Now think about the public restrooms in your local restaurant, mall, department store, university, etc. Let me know whether you think a state law prevents a malicious adult man from entering the women's room to do harm to a young girl.

Well, that's the whole points—it does; it's against the law in, I assume, all states, to do harm to a young girl. But entering a bathroom doesn't itself harm anyone, nor does it appear to especially facilitate harming anyone. So if you're going to write laws on the subject, you have to rationally show a) what the harm is, and b) how entering certain bathroom elevates that risk (and c) why the state has an interest in mitigating that harm). I've just never had it explained to me, specifically, what the concern is; it's always just "common sense". So it may be, and I have no objection to that, but you can't write a law on common sense, which is what they seem to be doing.

And that's just the first basic step; we haven't even come close to exploring whether a certain subset of men needs to be specifically regulated.
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cl94

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2017, 12:38:29 AM »

Let's get this thread back on track- anyone know of any other roads that run along international borders?
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ghYHZ

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2017, 04:27:15 AM »

Let's get this thread back on track- anyone know of any other roads that run along international borders?

Not running along the border but crossing it at Easton Maine It’s a dirt road with a US CBP post.

https://goo.gl/maps/6WHxUMBJDtn

https://goo.gl/maps/sMtjvm3S6gr

You can see the Canadian office in the distance……and it’s called Smuggler’s Road on the New Brunswick side!

Probably lots of these little obscure crossings from coast to coast.
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kalvado

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2017, 07:53:59 AM »

Ona similar note - I wonder what is the history over here?
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9946774,-90.008524,18z


I've posed the question to my father, who retired a few years ago after 30 years at in the Memphis/Shelby County planning department.

Got a response back.

When the school site immediately to the north was originally developed (as "Memphis Prep", a private junior/senior high school), one of the conditions of approval was that those streets would be blocked to avoid them from becoming thoroughfares for folks wanting to take a back way out of the school (Buxton Road wasn't originally blocked at the school property line).

I'm somewhat disappointed that I wasn't aware of this, seeing as how I went to one of the elementary schools that fed into Memphis Prep.  (That elementary school and Memphis Prep have both since closed).

This was, of course, before my days in college, which saw me spend some time in a dorm with unofficially coed showers, and in an apartment where I had three female roommates...both of which were rather educational experiences.  :)
So blocking at state line is more or less arbitrary -it was probably easier to do so at state line ( for maintenance reasons, if nothing else), but would be done anyway.. I wonder if unblocking those was considered after Buxton was blocked, or everyone feels good with just one outlet street anyway.... 
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kalvado

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #90 on: March 21, 2017, 08:04:03 AM »

Let's get this thread back on track- anyone know of any other roads that run along international borders?
I doubt there would be many such situations.
In general, border drawn over the ground is prioritized over border drawn in the document. US-Canada border is one of few cases where border was drawn in the treaty before the border drawn on the ground, and that is done while no accurate maps exited. That leads to a few weird situations when chunks of land are cut off from where they should logically be.  There are few other straight line borders, but mostly through unpopulated areas.
Another source of weird situations is border drawn on water (river), and said river changing the path at later time
There was remotely similar situation in Africa, where ferry running between 2 countries may (or may not, depending on who you ask) cross the third country...
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MikeTheActuary

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #91 on: March 21, 2017, 08:13:17 AM »

Let's get this thread back on track- anyone know of any other roads that run along international borders?

Crossing between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is mostly a non-event, and the border is poorly marked, but it looks like this country lane travels along (or at least very close to) one stretch of that line.
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empirestate

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2017, 10:18:56 AM »

Ona similar note - I wonder what is the history over here?
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.9946774,-90.008524,18z


My favorite part is that the street view car managed to go through the closed street with no problem. Notice on Lochnivar Rd., the same two boys are visible playing basketball on both sides of the state line!
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lordsutch

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2017, 04:53:17 PM »

Let's get this thread back on track- anyone know of any other roads that run along international borders?

I'm pretty sure there are examples in the Benelux countries, since historically they were all under the same king and there was never any serious effort to put in place border controls between them once Belgium and Luxembourg became fully independent.

Here are some examples involving the rather famous enclave Baarle-Hertog of Belgium in the Netherlands, while here's an example involving an enclave of Germany within Switzerland. I'd imagine there are quite a few others.
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1995hoo

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #94 on: March 21, 2017, 06:37:21 PM »

In terms of streets right along borders, I've never been there, but I believe Nogales has parallel streets along the border, although with a fence between them. Not the same situation as rue Canusa.

You could probably find something involving Italy and the Vatican (including Castel Gandolfo), although the borders have changed over the years so I'd call that historical accident.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2017, 06:39:27 PM by 1995hoo »
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #95 on: March 21, 2017, 09:41:39 PM »

My favorite part is that the street view car managed to go through the closed street with no problem. Notice on Lochnivar Rd., the same two boys are visible playing basketball on both sides of the state line!

Somehow I doubt the car drove through the fence. However considering it is but a drive around the block from one side of the fence to the other, the two images could easily have been taken within a few minutes of each other. Plenty close together for the same game of 1 on 1 to still be going.
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empirestate

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #96 on: March 22, 2017, 09:54:31 AM »

My favorite part is that the street view car managed to go through the closed street with no problem. Notice on Lochnivar Rd., the same two boys are visible playing basketball on both sides of the state line!

Somehow I doubt the car drove through the fence. However considering it is but a drive around the block from one side of the fence to the other, the two images could easily have been taken within a few minutes of each other. Plenty close together for the same game of 1 on 1 to still be going.

Well, my thinking was more that they cut through the dirt area that goes around and alongside the barrier.
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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #97 on: March 22, 2017, 10:06:39 AM »

I have talked to people who grew up along the Texas/Mexico border in Laredo. It wasnt really a big deal to cross over even up to the 1980s. My friend said they used to go to mexico to dri k when they were in high school almost every weekend.

Canada/US and most of European the difference economically from side to side isnt that much.

Mexico to US the economic difffernce is much greater

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #98 on: March 22, 2017, 11:21:17 AM »

My favorite part is that the street view car managed to go through the closed street with no problem. Notice on Lochnivar Rd., the same two boys are visible playing basketball on both sides of the state line!

Somehow I doubt the car drove through the fence. However considering it is but a drive around the block from one side of the fence to the other, the two images could easily have been taken within a few minutes of each other. Plenty close together for the same game of 1 on 1 to still be going.

Well, my thinking was more that they cut through the dirt area that goes around and alongside the barrier.
I doubt a car would do that. on the other hand. there are backpack mounted versions of google maps cameras...
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empirestate

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Re: Canusa Street – How does this work?
« Reply #99 on: March 23, 2017, 12:37:53 AM »

Well, my thinking was more that they cut through the dirt area that goes around and alongside the barrier.
I doubt a car would do that.

Your observation of cars and their drivers differs widely from mine, then. ;-)
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