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Worst freeway design

Started by iBallasticwolf2, April 13, 2017, 08:56:58 AM

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sparker

Quote from: nexus73 on April 20, 2017, 11:54:27 PM
I-5 in PDX from the interchange with SR 99W to SR 14 in Vancouver is the worst of the urban freeways in Oregon.  There are so many problem areas that it would be easier to drop a fusion bomb on the Rose City to remove the structures, inhabitants and all possible protesters, then wait until the radioactivity has died down so one can then spend a couple years putting in a whole new freeway as the first order of business.  Yeah, it's that bad...LOL!

Honorable mention: US 97 in Bend.  It looks like a lousy piece of work that resembles a freeway which ODOT in their infinite wisdom called a parkway.  Slow and unsure does not win the race in that city!  North and south of this poorly designed excuse of roadway one can see a sane engineer did the design of the new freeway segments while the poor one proves the adage that a camel is a horse designed by a committee...LOL!

Things Getting Better Department: Seven miles of I-5 south of the interchange with SR 38/99 there is a stretch of freeway with uphill grades getting upgraded to 3 lanes in the uphill direction.  More is needed for I-5 between Roseburg and Grants Pass but hey, it is a start, which considering ODOT and the current budget is a bloody miracle.

Rick

I dunno about I-5 being the absolute worst freeway in PDX; you haven't experienced abject terror until you've had a semi bearing down on your ass on the Banfield/I-84 while you're simply trying your best to stay in your lane!  Expanding that "gully alley" to 6 lanes just increased the potential for disaster 50%!  It's no wonder that the original Interstate plans called for a total bypass of that alignment (as locally detrimental as they might have been).   


nexus73

Quote from: sparker on April 21, 2017, 04:25:08 AM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 20, 2017, 11:54:27 PM
I-5 in PDX from the interchange with SR 99W to SR 14 in Vancouver is the worst of the urban freeways in Oregon.  There are so many problem areas that it would be easier to drop a fusion bomb on the Rose City to remove the structures, inhabitants and all possible protesters, then wait until the radioactivity has died down so one can then spend a couple years putting in a whole new freeway as the first order of business.  Yeah, it's that bad...LOL!

Honorable mention: US 97 in Bend.  It looks like a lousy piece of work that resembles a freeway which ODOT in their infinite wisdom called a parkway.  Slow and unsure does not win the race in that city!  North and south of this poorly designed excuse of roadway one can see a sane engineer did the design of the new freeway segments while the poor one proves the adage that a camel is a horse designed by a committee...LOL!

Things Getting Better Department: Seven miles of I-5 south of the interchange with SR 38/99 there is a stretch of freeway with uphill grades getting upgraded to 3 lanes in the uphill direction.  More is needed for I-5 between Roseburg and Grants Pass but hey, it is a start, which considering ODOT and the current budget is a bloody miracle.

Rick

I dunno about I-5 being the absolute worst freeway in PDX; you haven't experienced abject terror until you've had a semi bearing down on your ass on the Banfield/I-84 while you're simply trying your best to stay in your lane!  Expanding that "gully alley" to 6 lanes just increased the potential for disaster 50%!  It's no wonder that the original Interstate plans called for a total bypass of that alignment (as locally detrimental as they might have been).   

I've driven both.  I-5 overall as described is far worse than I-84.  The Banfield has been upgraded considerably over its original design.  The Baldock?  ROTFLMAO!

Rick
US 101 is THE backbone of the Pacific coast from Bandon OR to Willits CA.  Industry, tourism and local traffic would be gone or severely crippled without it being in functioning condition in BOTH states.

sparker

Quote from: nexus73 on April 21, 2017, 10:14:47 AM
I've driven both.  I-5 overall as described is far worse than I-84.  The Banfield has been upgraded considerably over its original design.  The Baldock?  ROTFLMAO!

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this!  I'll certainly concede that the aggregate amount of sub-par I-5 mileage far exceeds that of the Banfield -- even though when "upgrading" the latter, they chose to stay within the original alignment easement as much as possible (since they were also installing the LR tracks and realigning the parallel UP downtown branch at the same time and within a limited space, it's likely there was no more room to effect any higher level of improvement to I-84). 

Unfortunately, local politics has gotten in the way of any substantial improvement to I-5 -- particularly the portion in North Portland from the Fremont interchange to the river.  "Capacity increases" seems to be the functional equivalent of the F-bomb when discussing regional needs within local planning circles; as long as that attitude persists & prevails, it's likely any improvements will be marginal at best.

kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

doorknob60

#54
Quote from: sparker on April 21, 2017, 03:20:32 PM
Quote from: nexus73 on April 21, 2017, 10:14:47 AM
I've driven both.  I-5 overall as described is far worse than I-84.  The Banfield has been upgraded considerably over its original design.  The Baldock?  ROTFLMAO!

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this!  I'll certainly concede that the aggregate amount of sub-par I-5 mileage far exceeds that of the Banfield -- even though when "upgrading" the latter, they chose to stay within the original alignment easement as much as possible (since they were also installing the LR tracks and realigning the parallel UP downtown branch at the same time and within a limited space, it's likely there was no more room to effect any higher level of improvement to I-84). 

Unfortunately, local politics has gotten in the way of any substantial improvement to I-5 -- particularly the portion in North Portland from the Fremont interchange to the river.  "Capacity increases" seems to be the functional equivalent of the F-bomb when discussing regional needs within local planning circles; as long as that attitude persists & prevails, it's likely any improvements will be marginal at best.

OR-217 is worse than both. Only 2 through lanes each direction for most of it, very closely packed interchanges, and lots of exit only lanes and weaving. IMO in Portland, I-84 > I-5 > OR-217.

And the earlier mentioned US-97 in Bend is a bit silly and makes you scratch your head at times, but it functions well enough and doesn't cause too many problems (I've driven on it probably hundreds of times, living there for >6 years).

sparker

Quote from: doorknob60 on April 21, 2017, 03:46:29 PM
And the earlier mentioned US-97 in Bend is a bit silly and makes you scratch your head at times, but it functions well enough and doesn't cause too many problems (I've driven on it probably hundreds of times, living there for >6 years).

Indeed, the "Bend Parkway" is indeed silly (in a Pythonesque way!); it is one facility that looks as if it were assembled by a committee during happy hour at the local bar -- is it a freeway, an expressway, a parkway, a boulevard -- seems to contain components of all of the above.  Also the fact that it basically empties out NB onto US 20 rather than US 97 is a bit perplexing as well.  Oh well, who knows what lurks in the heart of ODOT at times!

doorknob60

Quote from: sparker on April 21, 2017, 06:03:12 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 21, 2017, 03:46:29 PM
And the earlier mentioned US-97 in Bend is a bit silly and makes you scratch your head at times, but it functions well enough and doesn't cause too many problems (I've driven on it probably hundreds of times, living there for >6 years).

Indeed, the "Bend Parkway" is indeed silly (in a Pythonesque way!); it is one facility that looks as if it were assembled by a committee during happy hour at the local bar -- is it a freeway, an expressway, a parkway, a boulevard -- seems to contain components of all of the above.

Yeah that's pretty accurate.

Quote from: sparker on April 21, 2017, 06:03:12 PM
Also the fact that it basically empties out NB onto US 20 rather than US 97 is a bit perplexing as well.

Not true (unless I'm understanding that wrong), look a little closer.

Speaking of US-20 though, traffic coming from Sisters on US-20 can't directly access US-97 right away, they either have to continue down for about a mile, or take Empire. But even worse is the lack of any access from US-20 east/Greenwood Ave to US-97 in either direction, and vice versa. That there is the number one flaw of the parkway in my opinion. Through traffic (which includes a large number of trucks) heading east towards Burns or Idaho must go down a busy 5 lane 3rd St, jam into one single left turn lane, and turn left onto US-20 from there.

There are usable ways to bypass this mess if you know about them, but they aren't signed or intended for thru traffic. And at least from the north side, aren't the most straightforward (bypassing from the south is easier though).

Really, there is no good east/west access from US-97 between Reed Market and Revere. And Revere isn't really a through arterial (you just use it to access Greenwood/Newport or the Portland/Olney/Penn/Neff naming clusterfuck, or downtown). Colorado is great to access the west side of Bend, but is hardly useful to access anything to the east.



Bickendan

From exit 294 near Tigard or 307A in Delta Park?

sparker

Quote from: doorknob60 on April 21, 2017, 06:16:39 PM
Quote from: sparker on April 21, 2017, 06:03:12 PM
Also the fact that it basically empties out NB onto US 20 rather than US 97 is a bit perplexing as well.

Not true (unless I'm understanding that wrong), look a little closer.

Really, there is no good east/west access from US-97 between Reed Market and Revere.

Oops!  I was indeed incorrect, :banghead: US 97 does maintain a through alignment onto its own continuation as an arterial (passing by a mall).  What my obviously addled brain was calculating was that if the quasi-limited-access facility were to be extended north at some future date, it would probably have to utilize the US 20 alignment north of the loop ramp for at least a half-mile or so before veering off to parallel the existing US 97; with the constrained nature of existing 97 north of 20, it's probably not feasible to effectively upgrade the present facility. 

doorknob60

#59
Quote from: sparker on April 21, 2017, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on April 21, 2017, 06:16:39 PM
Quote from: sparker on April 21, 2017, 06:03:12 PM
Also the fact that it basically empties out NB onto US 20 rather than US 97 is a bit perplexing as well.

Not true (unless I'm understanding that wrong), look a little closer.

Really, there is no good east/west access from US-97 between Reed Market and Revere.

Oops!  I was indeed incorrect, :banghead: US 97 does maintain a through alignment onto its own continuation as an arterial (passing by a mall).  What my obviously addled brain was calculating was that if the quasi-limited-access facility were to be extended north at some future date, it would probably have to utilize the US 20 alignment north of the loop ramp for at least a half-mile or so before veering off to parallel the existing US 97; with the constrained nature of existing 97 north of 20, it's probably not feasible to effectively upgrade the present facility.

It does look constrained, but current designs have a new US-97 bypass east of the existing highway along the railroad tracks: http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION4/Pages/US97-BendNorthCorridor.aspx

Link to the design they seem to have decided on (PDF): http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/REGION4/Documents/BendNorthCorridoreast_ds2_modified_alternative.pdf

There's no funding or timetable for construction, but the design works. I like the design except for the traffic signal at the north end. But I imagine all it would take is one flyover ramp (and some at grade ramps/glorified turn lanes) to fix that in the future if needed.

dzlsabe

ILs mantra..the beatings will continue until the morale improves but Expect Delays is good too. Seems some are happy that Chicago/land remains miserable. Status quo is often asinine...Always feel free to use a dictionary as I tend to offend younger or more sensitive viewers. Thanx Pythagoras. :rofl:

pianocello

O. Henry Blvd in Greensboro, NC is pretty bad. It's a freeway in the sense that it's a high-speed facility with no stopping or cross traffic, but almost all of the "ramps" utilize 90-degree angles and surface streets.
Davenport, IA -> Valparaiso, IN -> Ames, IA -> Orlando, FL -> Gainesville, FL -> Evansville, IN

Tonytone

Promoting Cities since 1998!

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Tonytone on April 30, 2017, 11:35:20 PM
I think this tops it https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3011805,-76.7104861,17z  :pan:

That was a policy decision by the State of Maryland and especially Baltimore City.  The interchange there was designed under the assumption that I-70 would continue east via Leakin Park and ultimately tie into I-95 and I-170 (now U.S. 40).

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Tonytone

Quote from: cpzilliacus on April 30, 2017, 11:47:16 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on April 30, 2017, 11:35:20 PM
I think this tops it https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3011805,-76.7104861,17z  :pan:

That was a policy decision by the State of Maryland and especially Baltimore City.  The interchange there was designed under the assumption that I-70 would continue east via Leakin Park and ultimately tie into I-95 and I-170 (now U.S. 40).
That explains it, but this always confuses me, why not build a bridge or tunnel https://www.google.com/maps/@38.8370514,-74.947674,11z they have been using a ferry for years, and its the garden state parkway, it would make two points connecting Delaware- Jersey.
Promoting Cities since 1998!

silverback1065

Quote from: Tonytone on April 30, 2017, 11:35:20 PM
I think this tops it https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3011805,-76.7104861,17z  :pan:

i think that portion is going to be removed one day.  does anyone have a map of all the proposed routings for 70 and 170?

intelati49


Brandon

"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

OCGuy81

As long as we're talking about bad designs in the Portland area, can I nominate the following?  TECHNICALLY there is a freeway (I-5 and I-405) involved in this mess.

The confluence of US 26, the Ross Island Bridge with

- OR 43
- OR 10
- OR 99W (signs still up)

and a few city surface streets.  This thing is a MESS!  Trying to navigate your way on or off the Ross Island can be a huge pain in the ass.

roadgeek01

US. 30 and US. 222 interchange in Lancaster.  Two lanes in each direction on US. 222 does not work for the ungodly amount of traffic everyday.  Also, that trumpet interchange is horribly outdated.   I still have no idea why the didn't change that interchange when they did the reconstruction of US. 30 in 1999.
pork bork my hork

idk what it means either

Bickendan

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 01, 2017, 03:44:08 PM
As long as we're talking about bad designs in the Portland area, can I nominate the following?  TECHNICALLY there is a freeway (I-5 and I-405) involved in this mess.

The confluence of US 26, the Ross Island Bridge with

- OR 43
- OR 10
- OR 99W (signs still up)

and a few city surface streets.  This thing is a MESS!  Trying to navigate your way on or off the Ross Island can be a huge pain in the ass.
Ain't the Ross Island Maze a beaut? :bigass:
I actually enjoy the layout and navigating it is rather simple... except when there's traffic, which is most of the time, lmao

The worst of it is on US 26 westbound, at SW Broadway and 4th/Caruthers (the left hand 'exit' to OHSU), and the left hand exit onto I-405 from SW 6th Ave, coupled with the following exit to SW 12th and the Sunset Hwy (the weaving between the merge and split on I-405 is awful and can cause backups onto the lower deck of the Marquam Bridge's left lane).

silverback1065

Quote from: pianocello on April 29, 2017, 11:46:25 AM
O. Henry Blvd in Greensboro, NC is pretty bad. It's a freeway in the sense that it's a high-speed facility with no stopping or cross traffic, but almost all of the "ramps" utilize 90-degree angles and surface streets.

greensboro's highways are weird in general, are they planning on building a full beltway there?  it's weird to have 2 essentially parallel interstate routes south of the city

dfilpus

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 03, 2017, 10:20:42 AM
Quote from: pianocello on April 29, 2017, 11:46:25 AM
O. Henry Blvd in Greensboro, NC is pretty bad. It's a freeway in the sense that it's a high-speed facility with no stopping or cross traffic, but almost all of the "ramps" utilize 90-degree angles and surface streets.

greensboro's highways are weird in general, are they planning on building a full beltway there?  it's weird to have 2 essentially parallel interstate routes south of the city
Greensboro has been building its beltway gradually over years. The northern side of the beltway is to be I-840. There are two completed segments on each side of town. Each segment is being extended north currently. Eventually, they will meet and there will be a full beltway around the city, though there will be no single Interstate number for the whole loop.

hm insulators

Earlier, the California 110 was mentioned. How about I-10 through the San Gabriel Valley east of Los Angeles with all those 1950s-era "squashed cloverleafs," as I call them.
Remember: If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

I'd rather be a child of the road than a son of a ditch.


At what age do you tell a highway that it's been adopted?

intelati49

Quote from: hm insulators on May 11, 2017, 02:22:37 PM
All those 1950s-era "squashed cloverleafs," as I call them.

I love those. But they are a relic of the past and should be reconstructed.



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