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PA Turnpike Ratings for Freeway Junctions

Started by Beltway, May 23, 2017, 07:10:14 PM

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Beltway

PA Turnpike ratings for freeway junctions

I developed a 4-level system -- Good, Fair, Poor and None.  This is better than a "yes or no" rating system.

A full interchange but low capacity would typically be rated "Fair".
An interchange with missing ramps would typically be rated "Poor".

Keep in mind that for ticketed tollroads it is not as simple as just connecting the two freeways with a conventional interchange, usually there is one big toll plaza on a connector road between the turnpike and the other freeway.  Capacity can suffer somewhat in the best of situations.

I'm sure that YMMV ...  :nod:  Input and analysis is welcome!

I-376 Beaver Valley -- Good
I-79 Cranberry -- Good, recent addition
PA-28 freeway -- None
I-376 Monroeville -- Fair, full connections but don't have enough capacity
I-70 New Stanton -- Fair, full connections but don't have enough capacity
PA-66/US-119 freeway -- Fair, freeway-grade but indirect connection
US-219 Somerset -- None
I-99/US-220 -- None.  Close but no cigar.
I-70 Breezewood -- None   ::air out the diced carrots::
I-81 Carlisle -- None
US-15 Mechanicsburg -- Fair
I-83 Harrisburg -- Fair
I-283 Harrisburg -- Good
PA-3032 Harrisburg Airport -- Fair, because I-283 and PA-283 freeway connects it indirectly
PA-283 freeway Middletown -- None, but I don't think needed, because I-283 connects it indirectly
US-222 freeway-- Good when built, but some would say Fair today because of at-grade intersections at US-222 ramp terminals
I-176 -- Good, recent addition
US-422 freeway Valley Forge -- Fair, as I-76 and US-202 freeway connects it indirectly
I-476 -- Good.  If there was an Excellent rating this one would get it. 
PA-309 Fort Washington -- Good
US-1 Philadelphia -- Good
I-95 Bristol -- None, but under construction
US-22 freeway Allentown -- Good
I-78 Allentown -- Fair, because US-22 and PA-309 freeways connect it indirectly
I-80 -- Fair, it goes thru a signalized intersection, but it is a simple connection
I-81 Pittston -- Poor, circuitous connection with some at-grade intersections
I-81 Clarks Summit -- Fair, freeway-grade but low capacity
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74/171FAN

QuoteSR 3032 Airport -- Fair, because I-283 and PA-283 freeway connects it indirectly

FTFY.  The Airport Connector here is actually a quadrant route for some reason and not a state route.  PA 232 actually is a northern Philly suburbs route for the most part.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Beltway

#2
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 23, 2017, 07:37:50 PM
QuoteSR 3032 Airport -- Fair, because I-283 and PA-283 freeway connects it indirectly
FTFY.  The Airport Connector here is actually a quadrant route for some reason and not a state route.  PA 232 actually is a northern Philly suburbs route for the most part.

I must have misread the map ... I will go back and change it.
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briantroutman

I would tend to agree with most of your assessments, although I'm inclined to nudge some ratings slightly downward. For example, I'd agree that the I-83 interchange is quite squarely in the "Fair"  column (direct connection–but tight ramp geometry and very short "decision distances"  on either end of the toll plaza). For similar reasons, I'd probably nudge several examples you rated "Good"  down to "Fair+"  if there was such an option. I think US 1, for example, is slightly less than "Good" .

I also agree that Mid County is the only one that would earn a "Good+"  or "Excellent"  rating, although one shortcoming is the lack of direct connection from the south to the west (and a slightly complicated connection for the reverse). Sometimes the circuitous I-476 North -> I-276 West is faster than taking I-76 through the seemingly perpetual congestion around King of Prussia.

And because of this hopeless congestion, I'd probably downgrade the connections to US 202 and US 422 as "Fair-"  at best.

vdeane

Similar to US 222, I'd also consider I-376 Beaver Valley "Fair" because of the at-grade intersections on the ramp terminals.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Beltway

Quote from: briantroutman on May 23, 2017, 08:31:36 PM
I would tend to agree with most of your assessments, although I'm inclined to nudge some ratings slightly downward. For example, I'd agree that the I-83 interchange is quite squarely in the "Fair"  column (direct connection–but tight ramp geometry and very short "decision distances"  on either end of the toll plaza). For similar reasons, I'd probably nudge several examples you rated "Good"  down to "Fair+"  if there was such an option. I think US 1, for example, is slightly less than "Good" .

I also agree that Mid County is the only one that would earn a "Good+"  or "Excellent"  rating, although one shortcoming is the lack of direct connection from the south to the west (and a slightly complicated connection for the reverse). Sometimes the circuitous I-476 North -> I-276 West is faster than taking I-76 through the seemingly perpetual congestion around King of Prussia.

I'm sure that the designers 30 years ago didn't plan on using I-476 north to bypass King of Prussia to get to the Turnpike west of Valley Forge.  That thought that Ridge Pike is the only I-476 interchange that would be capturing traffic that might want to take I-476 to access I-276 to the west.  Any local traffic in the I-476/Ridge Pike area can use local roads to get to the local access Turnpike interchange at Plymouth Meeting.

Quote
And because of this hopeless congestion, I'd probably downgrade the connections to US 202 and US 422 as "Fair-"  at best.

The recent upgrades on US-202 have helped, but indeed is a congested area.
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epzik8

I agree with the I-83 and the US-222 junctions.
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jeffandnicole

PA 309 & US 1 tend to be pretty congested.  Not sure if they're really "Good".

Beltway

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 24, 2017, 06:00:36 AM
PA 309 & US 1 tend to be pretty congested.  Not sure if they're really "Good".

Yes I agree, and the development around the interchange constrains any ability to expand it, and it combines freeway connection with local access thru the connector road that extends to the local roads.

That is also the busiest section of the Turnpike, about 103,000 AADT west of the interchange and about 100,000 east of the interchange.  The Turnpike there is 6 lanes and those are 8-lane warrants.

The new E-ZPass ramps at Virginia Drive a mile east of there (WB off and WB on), provide local access support and relief to the Fort Washington interchange.  Would be good if they could build the other pair (EB off and EB on) in that vicinity.
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ixnay

Quote from: Beltway on May 23, 2017, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 23, 2017, 07:37:50 PM
QuoteSR 3032 Airport -- Fair, because I-283 and PA-283 freeway connects it indirectly
FTFY.  The Airport Connector here is actually a quadrant route for some reason and not a state route.  PA 232 actually is a northern Philly suburbs route for the most part.

I must have misread the map ... I will go back and change it.

Could you provide a link to the map?

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

Beltway

Quote from: ixnay on May 24, 2017, 07:18:22 AM
Quote from: Beltway on May 23, 2017, 07:49:36 PM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 23, 2017, 07:37:50 PM
QuoteSR 3032 Airport -- Fair, because I-283 and PA-283 freeway connects it indirectly
FTFY.  The Airport Connector here is actually a quadrant route for some reason and not a state route.  PA 232 actually is a northern Philly suburbs route for the most part.
I must have misread the map ... I will go back and change it.
Could you provide a link to the map?
ixnay

I meant to say the original post...
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Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Beltway on May 23, 2017, 07:10:14 PM
I-70 Breezewood -- None   ::air out the diced carrots::

Those are carrots that have been fed to a horse, digested by the horse, and the remnants passed out from the south end of the horse.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

briantroutman

Quote from: Beltway on May 23, 2017, 10:59:38 PM
I'm sure that the designers 30 years ago didn't plan on using I-476 north to bypass King of Prussia to get to the Turnpike west of Valley Forge.

Agreed, and as with several other traffic pinches in Pennsylvania, the situation today would like be quite different if other planned routes (King of Prussia spur from I-476) had been constructed.

PHLBOS

Quote from: briantroutman on May 24, 2017, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 23, 2017, 10:59:38 PM
I'm sure that the designers 30 years ago didn't plan on using I-476 north to bypass King of Prussia to get to the Turnpike west of Valley Forge.
Agreed, and as with several other traffic pinches in Pennsylvania, the situation today would like be quite different if other planned routes (King of Prussia spur from I-476) had been constructed.
Actually, such was known as the Radnor Spur and it was basically a southeasterly extension of US 422 to I-476.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

jemacedo9

Quote from: briantroutman on May 23, 2017, 08:31:36 PM
I would tend to agree with most of your assessments, although I’m inclined to nudge some ratings slightly downward. For example, I’d agree that the I-83 interchange is quite squarely in the “Fair” column (direct connection—but tight ramp geometry and very short “decision distances” on either end of the toll plaza). For similar reasons, I’d probably nudge several examples you rated “Good” down to “Fair+” if there was such an option. I think US 1, for example, is slightly less than “Good”.

I also agree that Mid County is the only one that would earn a “Good+” or “Excellent” rating, although one shortcoming is the lack of direct connection from the south to the west (and a slightly complicated connection for the reverse). Sometimes the circuitous I-476 North -> I-276 West is faster than taking I-76 through the seemingly perpetual congestion around King of Prussia.

And because of this hopeless congestion, I’d probably downgrade the connections to US 202 and US 422 as “Fair-” at best.
It depends on if the rating system is specific to the PTC, or to PA as a whole.  The US 202/US 422 debacle is purely PennDOTs fault, and nothing to do with the PTC. (Why they thought that a one-lane funnel to US 422 West was adequate, I'll never understand.) Most of the other connections are largely PTC designed, or jointly designed between the PTC and PennDOT. 

jemacedo9

I'll use a letter grade system...I tend to agree with the above but I have some slight nuances:

I-376 Beaver Valley - C (I'm not too familiar with this one)
I-79 Cranberry -- B
PA-28 freeway -- F
I-376 Monroeville -- B- (tight curves)
I-70 New Stanton -- B
PA-66/US-119 freeway -- B
US-219 Somerset -- F
I-99/US-220 -- F
I-70 Breezewood -- F
I-81 Carlisle -- F
US-15 Mechanicsburg -- B
I-83 Harrisburg -- B- (I-83 part is inadequate)
I-283 Harrisburg -- B
PA-3032 Harrisburg Airport -- F (but not needed)
PA-283 freeway Middletown -- F (but not needed)
US-222 freeway-- C
I-176 -- B+
I-76/US 202/US 422 - B-  (I-76 West should not be a loop ramp)
I-476 -- A-
PA-309 Fort Washington -- B+
US-1 Philadelphia -- B-  (US 1 part is in adequate)
I-95 Bristol -- I
US-22 freeway Allentown -- B
I-78 Allentown -- F (but not needed)
I-80 -- C
I-81 Pittston -- D
I-81 Clarks Summit -- C- (stop signs and tight ramps)

Beltway

Quote from: PHLBOS on May 24, 2017, 02:25:18 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on May 24, 2017, 02:22:52 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 23, 2017, 10:59:38 PM
I'm sure that the designers 30 years ago didn't plan on using I-476 north to bypass King of Prussia to get to the Turnpike west of Valley Forge.
Agreed, and as with several other traffic pinches in Pennsylvania, the situation today would like be quite different if other planned routes (King of Prussia spur from I-476) had been constructed.
Actually, such was known as the Radnor Spur and it was basically a southeasterly extension of US 422 to I-476.

The Schuylkill Expressway widening itself would greatly help, it has needed it since 1970 or before.  The Montgomery County segment itself could go forth as a Segment of Independent Utility (SIU), while they figure out how to address it in the city.  The Montgomery County segment carries over 130,000 AADT throughout, making it one of the highest volume 4-lane freeways in the country.  Needs 8 lanes.
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Beltway

Quote from: jemacedo9 on May 24, 2017, 02:48:46 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on May 23, 2017, 08:31:36 PM
And because of this hopeless congestion, I'd probably downgrade the connections to US 202 and US 422 as "Fair-"  at best.
It depends on if the rating system is specific to the PTC, or to PA as a whole.  The US 202/US 422 debacle is purely PennDOTs fault, and nothing to do with the PTC. (Why they thought that a one-lane funnel to US 422 West was adequate, I'll never understand.) Most of the other connections are largely PTC designed, or jointly designed between the PTC and PennDOT. 

Given the level of commercial development today, it would be all but impossible to obtain the land needed to connect US-422 directly to the Turnpike.   Conceptually that is what is needed.

That land was probably available when the first segment of US-422 was opened about 1969, from US-202 to PA-363; not signed as US-422 then but the extension known as the Pottstown Expressway was already in the planning stages.
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Beltway

Quote from: jemacedo9 on May 24, 2017, 02:55:26 PM
I'll use a letter grade system...I tend to agree with the above but I have some slight nuances:

I-376 Beaver Valley - C (I'm not too familiar with this one)
I-79 Cranberry -- B
PA-28 freeway -- F
I-376 Monroeville -- B- (tight curves)
I-70 New Stanton -- B
PA-66/US-119 freeway -- B
US-219 Somerset -- F
I-99/US-220 -- F
I-70 Breezewood -- F
I-81 Carlisle -- F
US-15 Mechanicsburg -- B
I-83 Harrisburg -- B- (I-83 part is inadequate)
I-283 Harrisburg -- B
PA-3032 Harrisburg Airport -- F (but not needed)
PA-283 freeway Middletown -- F (but not needed)
US-222 freeway-- C
I-176 -- B+
I-76/US 202/US 422 - B-  (I-76 West should not be a loop ramp)
I-476 -- A-
PA-309 Fort Washington -- B+
US-1 Philadelphia -- B-  (US 1 part is in adequate)
I-95 Bristol -- I
US-22 freeway Allentown -- B
I-78 Allentown -- F (but not needed)
I-80 -- C
I-81 Pittston -- D
I-81 Clarks Summit -- C- (stop signs and tight ramps)

Yours is another good method, 5 levels instead of 4.

Not sure why I omitted I-76 Schuylkill Expressway.  Like you said, I-76 West should not be a loop ramp, although it looks like it has a second lane that is unopened awaiting the completion of 6-laning to the west of there.  Given that design I would rate it as Good.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

hotdogPi

#19
Quote from: Beltway on May 24, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on May 24, 2017, 02:55:26 PM
I'll use a letter grade system...I tend to agree with the above but I have some slight nuances:

I-376 Beaver Valley - C (I'm not too familiar with this one)
I-79 Cranberry -- B
PA-28 freeway -- F
I-376 Monroeville -- B- (tight curves)
I-70 New Stanton -- B
PA-66/US-119 freeway -- B
US-219 Somerset -- F
I-99/US-220 -- F
I-70 Breezewood -- F
I-81 Carlisle -- F
US-15 Mechanicsburg -- B
I-83 Harrisburg -- B- (I-83 part is inadequate)
I-283 Harrisburg -- B
PA-3032 Harrisburg Airport -- F (but not needed)
PA-283 freeway Middletown -- F (but not needed)
US-222 freeway-- C
I-176 -- B+
I-76/US 202/US 422 - B-  (I-76 West should not be a loop ramp)
I-476 -- A-
PA-309 Fort Washington -- B+
US-1 Philadelphia -- B-  (US 1 part is in adequate)
I-95 Bristol -- I
US-22 freeway Allentown -- B
I-78 Allentown -- F (but not needed)
I-80 -- C
I-81 Pittston -- D
I-81 Clarks Summit -- C- (stop signs and tight ramps)

Yours is another good method, 5 levels instead of 4.

Not sure why I omitted I-76 Schuylkill Expressway.  Like you said, I-76 West should not be a loop ramp, although it looks like it has a second lane that is unopened awaiting the completion of 6-laning to the west of there.  Given that design I would rate it as Good.

There are actually 14 levels: F, D-, D, D+, C-, C, C+, B-, B, B+, A-, A, and for some reason I (independent?).

It may seem like that's too many levels, but it's only a few more than "rate from 0-10".
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

jemacedo9

Quote from: 1 on May 24, 2017, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 24, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on May 24, 2017, 02:55:26 PM
I'll use a letter grade system...I tend to agree with the above but I have some slight nuances:

I-376 Beaver Valley - C (I'm not too familiar with this one)
I-79 Cranberry -- B
PA-28 freeway -- F
I-376 Monroeville -- B- (tight curves)
I-70 New Stanton -- B
PA-66/US-119 freeway -- B
US-219 Somerset -- F
I-99/US-220 -- F
I-70 Breezewood -- F
I-81 Carlisle -- F
US-15 Mechanicsburg -- B
I-83 Harrisburg -- B- (I-83 part is inadequate)
I-283 Harrisburg -- B
PA-3032 Harrisburg Airport -- F (but not needed)
PA-283 freeway Middletown -- F (but not needed)
US-222 freeway-- C
I-176 -- B+
I-76/US 202/US 422 - B-  (I-76 West should not be a loop ramp)
I-476 -- A-
PA-309 Fort Washington -- B+
US-1 Philadelphia -- B-  (US 1 part is in adequate)
I-95 Bristol -- I
US-22 freeway Allentown -- B
I-78 Allentown -- F (but not needed)
I-80 -- C
I-81 Pittston -- D
I-81 Clarks Summit -- C- (stop signs and tight ramps)

Yours is another good method, 5 levels instead of 4.

Not sure why I omitted I-76 Schuylkill Expressway.  Like you said, I-76 West should not be a loop ramp, although it looks like it has a second lane that is unopened awaiting the completion of 6-laning to the west of there.  Given that design I would rate it as Good.

There are actually 14 levels: F, D-, D, D+, C-, C, C+, B-, B, B+, A-, A, and for some reason I (independent?).

It may seems like that's too many levels, but it's only a few more than "rate from 0-10".

I = incomplete; currently an F

Beltway

#21
Quote from: jemacedo9 on May 24, 2017, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 24, 2017, 03:44:51 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 24, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
Yours is another good method, 5 levels instead of 4.

Not sure why I omitted I-76 Schuylkill Expressway.  Like you said, I-76 West should not be a loop ramp, although it looks like it has a second lane that is unopened awaiting the completion of 6-laning to the west of there.  Given that design I would rate it as Good.
There are actually 14 levels: F, D-, D, D+, C-, C, C+, B-, B, B+, A-, A, and for some reason I (independent?).

It may seems like that's too many levels, but it's only a few more than "rate from 0-10".
I = incomplete; currently an F

If I used pluses and minuses on mine, it would be 10 levels.

The first stage completion of the I-95 interchange, the I-95 direct connection ramp highways, I would rate as Good.  The fully completed interchange would rate as Excellent if I had such a rating.

If the Turnpike goes to All Electronic Tolling (AET), then any future interchange additions or upgrades can follow standard designs for non-toll freeways.  That will simplify things.  I-70 Breezewood could be connected directly to the mainline rather than the connector highway.  Standard freeway-to-freeway interchanges at US-219, I-99/US-220 and I-81.
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PHLBOS

Quote from: Beltway on May 24, 2017, 04:08:27 PMIf the Turnpike goes to All Electronic Tolling (AET), then any future interchange additions or upgrades can follow standard designs for non-toll freeways.  That will simplify things.  I-70 Breezewood could be connected directly to the mainline rather than the connector highway.
The only difference that AET implementation does regarding a future direct-connection between I-70 & the Turnpike (I-76) would be that overhead toll gantries would be erected instead of a toll booth plaza.   The proposed interchange/ramp layout geometry shouldn't change one iota (as long as the toll gantry/plaza is located far enough away).
GPS does NOT equal GOD

BrianP

It's actually simpler if the gantries are in between interchanges instead of at the interchanges.  That's how MD 200 is setup.

PHLBOS

Quote from: BrianP on May 24, 2017, 04:59:54 PM
It's actually simpler if the gantries are in between interchanges instead of at the interchanges.  That's how MD 200 is setup.
Similar was recently done along the Mass Pike (I-90) as well; its AET conversion was done instantaneously.

At present, no word yet as towards when the entire PA Turnpike system will completely go AET.  At present, such has been done piecemeal and/or with EZ-Pass only ramps/interchanges.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



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