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Crossroads of America

Started by webny99, June 01, 2017, 09:05:23 PM

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US 89

Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.

And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.


jakeroot

Quote from: Henry on June 13, 2017, 10:03:32 AM
The crossroads of CA would actually be two: San Francisco and Los Angeles.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads.  I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.

I would use Sacramento for California.

As would I, at least tied with Los Angeles or Bakersfield. Although San Francisco is large, the only major interstate is the 80.

kkt

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis.  At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.

Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads.  I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.
I would use Sacramento for California.

Pretty far north, though.  You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.

jakeroot

Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis.  At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.

Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads.  I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.

I would use Sacramento for California.

Pretty far north, though.  You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.

K. So let's have two: Sacramento, and Los Angeles. I don't think Bakersfield, nor San Francisco would qualify, as they only have one 2di (OP requires two 2di's). Hell, Barstow would qualify over Bakersfield.

US 89

Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis.  At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.

Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads.  I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.

I would use Sacramento for California.

Pretty far north, though.  You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.

K. So let's have two: Sacramento, and Los Angeles. I don't think Bakersfield, nor San Francisco would qualify, as they only have one 2di (OP requires two 2di's). Hell, Barstow would qualify over Bakersfield.

Bakersfield should have I-40.

jakeroot

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis.  At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.

Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads.  I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.

I would use Sacramento for California.

Pretty far north, though.  You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.

K. So let's have two: Sacramento, and Los Angeles. I don't think Bakersfield, nor San Francisco would qualify, as they only have one 2di (OP requires two 2di's). Hell, Barstow would qualify over Bakersfield.

Bakersfield should have I-40.

I don't think we're allowed to discuss that. See here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1809.msg40545#msg40545 (third paragraph).

kkt

I don't think it matters for the purposes of which city is the "crossroads" whether the roads that cross are state routes, US routes, or interstates.  Bakersfield as the crossroads of CA 58 and CA 99 works okay for me.

US 89

Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 06:02:50 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 05:36:49 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 05:14:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on June 13, 2017, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 01:21:13 PM
St. Louis.  At the meeting place of east and west, and north and south.

Because of California's geography, there's not really one crossroads.  I guess Bakersfield if I had to pick someplace.

I would use Sacramento for California.

Pretty far north, though.  You wouldn't go through it just going between the two major metro areas.

K. So let's have two: Sacramento, and Los Angeles. I don't think Bakersfield, nor San Francisco would qualify, as they only have one 2di (OP requires two 2di's). Hell, Barstow would qualify over Bakersfield.

Bakersfield should have I-40.

I don't think we're allowed to discuss that. See here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1809.msg40545#msg40545 (third paragraph).

Whoops. Well, I still think Bakersfield is the crossroads of California.

jakeroot

#58
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
I don't think it matters for the purposes of which city is the "crossroads" whether the roads that cross are state routes, US routes, or interstates.  Bakersfield as the crossroads of CA 58 and CA 99 works okay for me.

I was just going off the OP:

Quote from: webny99 on June 01, 2017, 09:05:23 PM
You can choose any city or intersection of two 2-dis, except Indianapolis  :D And explain your logic.

That said, as long as we're on the topic of the Crossroads of each state, I think the rule should be widened to include all route types. Surely at least one state has only one 2di?

EDIT: I still believe Sac-town would be a better choice. There's a direct freeway to most major cities in the state: 80 to San Francisco, 5 north to Oregon or south to Los Angeles/San Diego, 99 south towards Bakersfield, US-50 towards Lake Tahoe, etc.

US 89

Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
I don't think it matters for the purposes of which city is the "crossroads" whether the roads that cross are state routes, US routes, or interstates.  Bakersfield as the crossroads of CA 58 and CA 99 works okay for me.

I was just going off the OP:

Quote from: webny99 on June 01, 2017, 09:05:23 PM
You can choose any city or intersection of two 2-dis, except Indianapolis  :D And explain your logic.

That said, as long as we're on the topic of the Crossroads of each state, I think the rule should be widened to include all route types. Surely at least one state has only one 2di?

It looks like there's only one: Maine has one 2di, I-95.

Nevada comes close though. Its two 2dis, 80 and 15, don't intersect in Nevada, but in Utah.

hotdogPi

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 10:05:09 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 09:59:26 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 13, 2017, 07:59:28 PM
I don't think it matters for the purposes of which city is the "crossroads" whether the roads that cross are state routes, US routes, or interstates.  Bakersfield as the crossroads of CA 58 and CA 99 works okay for me.

I was just going off the OP:

Quote from: webny99 on June 01, 2017, 09:05:23 PM
You can choose any city or intersection of two 2-dis, except Indianapolis  :D And explain your logic.

That said, as long as we're on the topic of the Crossroads of each state, I think the rule should be widened to include all route types. Surely at least one state has only one 2di?

It looks like there's only one: Maine has one 2di, I-95.

Nevada comes close though. Its two 2dis, 80 and 15, don't intersect in Nevada, but in Utah.

Rhode Island and Delaware also have only I-95.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

ilpt4u

#61
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2017, 09:59:26 PM
That said, as long as we're on the topic of the Crossroads of each state, I think the rule should be widened to include all route types. Surely at least one state has only one 2di?
Nebraska comes really really close -- I-29 never enters the state, and I-76 (Western) barely leaves I-80 still within Nebraska

Not a separate state, but the UP of Michigan only has one 2di, the northern terminus of I-75

Thunderbyrd316

The correct answer is obvious and I am surprised that no one has mentioned it yet. Des Moines, Ia. I-80 is by default the "main" east-west Interstate as I-90 is too far north and I-10 is too far south and Interstates 20, 30, 40, and 70 do not run from coast to coast. I-35 is the central north-south Interstate. I-35 and I-80 meet at Des Moines in a location that while not precisely in the center of the 48 states is none the less about equally accessible to just about all the other major population centers of the North American continent. i.e. There is fairly direct (as in you can get there with out a lot of complicated zigs and zags) high speed super highway access to just about every other major urban area. San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Omaha, Davenport, Chicago, Toledo, Cleveland, New York, San Antonio, Austin, Dallas/Fort Worth, Oklahoma City, Wichita, Kansas City, Minneapolis/Saint Paul and Duluth can all be reached direct with NO route changes at all. And Los Angeles via Denver and Las Vegas is nearly direct as is Seattle or Portland via Salt Lake City and Boise. To the east Detroit, Washington, Philadelphia, Boston Buffalo and even Toronto and Montreal are just as direct. Only the cities to the southeast require a few sharp turns to get to and even then only really at Davenport where I-74 provides a fairly direct link to St. Louis, Nashville, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Miami and just about anywhere else you might want to go.

ilpt4u

Quote from: Thunderbyrd316 on June 13, 2017, 10:15:38 PM
The correct answer is obvious and I am surprised that no one has mentioned it yet. Des Moines, Ia...There is fairly direct (as in you can get there with out a lot of complicated zigs and zags) high speed super highway access to just about every other major urban area...Only the cities to the southeast require a few sharp turns to get to and even then only really at Davenport where I-74 provides a fairly direct link to St. Louis, Nashville, Atlanta, Charlotte, Orlando, Miami and just about anywhere else you might want to go.
Would not the Avenue of the Saints be competitive to get to St Louis from Des Moines? Thats (mostly) the route that Google Maps picks for the trip, tho instead of I-80 East direct to the Avenue South, it uses IA-163, US 63, and US-34 to reach the Avenue, on a SE trajectory leaving Des Moines

empirestate

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.

And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.

Well, that's way too many intersecting routes to be a crossroads. It should be only two, presumably a main N/S one and a main E/W one.

7/8

Quote from: empirestate on June 15, 2017, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.

And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.

Well, that's way too many intersecting routes to be a crossroads. It should be only two, presumably a main N/S one and a main E/W one.

I think some people (including myself) disagree that a crossroads can only be two roads. Indianapolis is known as the crossroads of america because of the multiple interstates that intersect there.

In most cases, I would find it hard to argue that a city at the intersection of two interstates would be more important than a city at the intersection of multiple interstates. I think Kansas City is a fair choice because of all the roads listed above.

US 89

Quote from: 7/8 on June 15, 2017, 09:45:22 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 15, 2017, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.

And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.

Well, that's way too many intersecting routes to be a crossroads. It should be only two, presumably a main N/S one and a main E/W one.

I think some people (including myself) disagree that a crossroads can only be two roads. Indianapolis is known as the crossroads of america because of the multiple interstates that intersect there.

In most cases, I would find it hard to argue that a city at the intersection of two interstates would be more important than a city at the intersection of multiple interstates. I think Kansas City is a fair choice because of all the roads listed above.

I agree with this. IMO, the more major highways intersect in one town, the more of a crossroads it is. If it brings in traffic from a lot of surrounding areas on a lot of different highways, then lots of different people going different directions will cross paths there. That's what makes a city a "crossroads".

7/8

After some more thinking, I understand the difference in opinion. Some people are looking for one specific intersection, while others are thinking of the city as a whole. I was personally thinking of the second option, but I can see why some people might see the first interpretation.

slorydn1

I would say Kansas City would be the winner since it is the closest major city with multiple Interstate connections to the actual center point of the contiguous US which is located here:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Geographic+Center+of+the+United+States/@39.9941816,-98.5716901,7.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xde5763fad96b22b3!8m2!3d39.8281595!4d-98.5795444
Please Note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of any governmental agency, non-governmental agency, quasi-governmental agency or wanna be governmental agency

Counties: Counties Visited

empirestate

Quote from: roadguy2 on June 15, 2017, 10:07:00 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on June 15, 2017, 09:45:22 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 15, 2017, 09:21:30 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on June 13, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
Quote from: epzik8 on June 13, 2017, 12:00:45 PM
Kansas City. I-70, I-35, I-29 and I-49.

And US 24, 40, 50, 56, 69, 71, 73, and 169.

Well, that's way too many intersecting routes to be a crossroads. It should be only two, presumably a main N/S one and a main E/W one.

I think some people (including myself) disagree that a crossroads can only be two roads. Indianapolis is known as the crossroads of america because of the multiple interstates that intersect there.

In most cases, I would find it hard to argue that a city at the intersection of two interstates would be more important than a city at the intersection of multiple interstates. I think Kansas City is a fair choice because of all the roads listed above.

I agree with this. IMO, the more major highways intersect in one town, the more of a crossroads it is. If it brings in traffic from a lot of surrounding areas on a lot of different highways, then lots of different people going different directions will cross paths there. That's what makes a city a "crossroads".

If that's so, why does the sign for a crossroads only have two crossing roads?

And in any case, regardless of our own views, the original question does allow for only two Interstate routes, if it's an intersection that we're considering.

hotdogPi

Quote from: empirestate on June 16, 2017, 09:22:41 PM
If that's so, why does the sign for a crossroads only have two crossing roads?

5-way and 6-way intersections are much more rare than the common 4-way intersection of two crossing roads. A sign labeling a crossroads must be at a single intersection, but calling a city a crossroads allows much more than a pair of roads.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

US 89

Quote from: 1 on June 16, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
5-way and 6-way intersections are much more rare than the common 4-way intersection of two crossing roads.

Tell that to Grand Ave in Phoenix.

empirestate

Quote from: 1 on June 16, 2017, 09:43:48 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 16, 2017, 09:22:41 PM
If that's so, why does the sign for a crossroads only have two crossing roads?

5-way and 6-way intersections are much more rare than the common 4-way intersection of two crossing roads. A sign labeling a crossroads must be at a single intersection, but calling a city a crossroads allows much more than a pair of roads.

That right there probably sums up the ambiguity: because of course, a city is not a crossroads; it's only a metaphor. So then you have to decide what the attributes of a crossroads are that you would want to extend to an entire city. One of those is that there are only two intersecting roads, but that may or may not be what's intended by the metaphor. However, the OP gives a clue that this is indeed a characteristic that's intended here, as one of the options is to nominate a pair (only) of intersecting Interstates. But then again, not all clues lead to the solution.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Then again, some people think of this as a crossroad.  :confused:
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Rothman

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on June 17, 2017, 09:56:20 PM
Then again, some people think of this as a crossroad.  :confused:

Well, where they intersected on Clarksdale, MS, most certainly!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.