Is Phoenix the largest metro area without a 3digit interstate?

[Max Rockatansky]

california's numbering system makes no sense

It used to when the signed routes were originally plotted out.  The odd numbers were north/south and the evens were east/west.  There wasn't a "grid" but major routes had lower numbers while minor rural corridors had the three digit variety.  Really that all fell apart once the unnumbered LRNs were given actual route numbers and signed as such in the field.

BUT....does something like Arizona really make sense?  What logic goes into how Arizona numbered their routes aside from the loop routes in Phoenix?  It sure seems like that numbers in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s were favorites for some reason but I could never really pinpoint why that was?  Maybe it had something to do with early US routes like US 60, 70, 80, and 89 being present in the state?

[vdeane]

For those of us who don't know, what is the Phoenix numbering system?  The numbers seem pretty random on Google Maps.

[silverback1065]

nevada's and new mexico's seem to make no sense either

[Max Rockatansky]

nevada's and new mexico's seem to make no sense either

Nevada actually has a range of routes that are considered "primary" while others higher up are, urban, and secondary.  The idea is to group like numbers together in a given area, an example would be all the 1XX numbers around Las Vegas and Clark County.  The numbering scheme workings like this:

Primary:  0-499
Urban:  500-699
Secondary:  700 plus

Nevada deleted a lot of fluff locally maintained State Highways when they renumbered in 1976, that is why you still things on maps like NV 8A near places like Vya...no point for anyone local to really change the name.  New Mexico is pretty all over the place like you said but I've found this particular page to be the most useful when trying to sort the state out:

http://www.steve-riner.com/nmhighways/NMHome.htm

[michravera]

california's numbering system makes no sense

It used to when the signed routes were originally plotted out.  The odd numbers were north/south and the evens were east/west.  There wasn't a "grid" but major routes had lower numbers while minor rural corridors had the three digit variety.  Really that all fell apart once the unnumbered LRNs were given actual route numbers and signed as such in the field.

BUT....does something like Arizona really make sense?  What logic goes into how Arizona numbered their routes aside from the loop routes in Phoenix?  It sure seems like that numbers in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s were favorites for some reason but I could never really pinpoint why that was?  Maybe it had something to do with early US routes like US 60, 70, 80, and 89 being present in the state?

California' system doesn't make as much sense because it uses the number system of the I-system and the US-system which might make sense for the entire US (and are backwards to each other), but doesn't make sense if you only consider California. And then piggybacks all of the California principle routes then secondary routes then highways then county roads.

[silverback1065]

why isn't there a better connection with i-17 and us 60?

[Buffaboy]

I just realized this looking at Google Earth 2 minutes ago, although I suspected it beforehand. It is peculiar indeed.

[MikeSantNY78]

are the non interstate freeways in the metro area up to interstate standards?  also why isn't us 60 a freeway when it goes diagonal on the west side? i was going to ask if it was the only capital without a 3digit interstate, but vermont's capital doesn't either.

Most of them are up to Interstate design standards but parts of 51 likely don't meet them, for sure sections of 303 and 143 don't.  US 60 runs on Grand Avenue which really has been built up as best it can with an expressway design.  The issue there is that there is a ton of older development like Sun City and infrastructure with the railroads, really the Bell Road/Grand Ave project is a good of expample of what realistically could be done to US 60.  Supposedly in the early concept stages the planned route of 51 was intended to be I-510.  I once asked an ADOT representive why they never applied for 3d designations and they said that they weren't sure.  Really I like the Loop X0X system, it is very easy to follow and understand unlike all the mucked up 3ds get in something like Metro Los Angeles.

Kinda like the Pittsburgh Belt system, except on expressways (PHX) instead of surface streets (PGH)...

[bing101]

And these have no signed 3dis:
Sacramento, CA (I-805)

That should be I-305.  I-805 is signed in the San Diego area.

But Sacramento used to have a signed 3di and it was I-880 Beltline Freeway. This was until the 1980's when Caltrans moved the I-880 designation for San Jose to Oakland in the 1980's.


Sacramento's Beltline freeway became I-80 sometime in the 1980's.

The nearest Signed 3di to Sacramento today is I-505 from Vacaville to Winters. However I-505 is in the Sacramento Valley though but not in Sacramento city proper.

[silverback1065]

are the non interstate freeways in the metro area up to interstate standards?  also why isn't us 60 a freeway when it goes diagonal on the west side? i was going to ask if it was the only capital without a 3digit interstate, but vermont's capital doesn't either.

Most of them are up to Interstate design standards but parts of 51 likely don't meet them, for sure sections of 303 and 143 don't.  US 60 runs on Grand Avenue which really has been built up as best it can with an expressway design.  The issue there is that there is a ton of older development like Sun City and infrastructure with the railroads, really the Bell Road/Grand Ave project is a good of expample of what realistically could be done to US 60.  Supposedly in the early concept stages the planned route of 51 was intended to be I-510.  I once asked an ADOT representive why they never applied for 3d designations and they said that they weren't sure.  Really I like the Loop X0X system, it is very easy to follow and understand unlike all the mucked up 3ds get in something like Metro Los Angeles.

Kinda like the Pittsburgh Belt system, except on expressways (PHX) instead of surface streets (PGH)...

the interstates inside pittsburgh city limits are utter garbage, very poor design, terrible traffic flow. 

[Sykotyk]

are the non interstate freeways in the metro area up to interstate standards?  also why isn't us 60 a freeway when it goes diagonal on the west side? i was going to ask if it was the only capital without a 3digit interstate, but vermont's capital doesn't either.

Most of them are up to Interstate design standards but parts of 51 likely don't meet them, for sure sections of 303 and 143 don't.  US 60 runs on Grand Avenue which really has been built up as best it can with an expressway design.  The issue there is that there is a ton of older development like Sun City and infrastructure with the railroads, really the Bell Road/Grand Ave project is a good of expample of what realistically could be done to US 60.  Supposedly in the early concept stages the planned route of 51 was intended to be I-510.  I once asked an ADOT representive why they never applied for 3d designations and they said that they weren't sure.  Really I like the Loop X0X system, it is very easy to follow and understand unlike all the mucked up 3ds get in something like Metro Los Angeles.

Kinda like the Pittsburgh Belt system, except on expressways (PHX) instead of surface streets (PGH)...

the interstates inside pittsburgh city limits are utter garbage, very poor design, terrible traffic flow. 

Essentially, square peg--round hole.

They laid them down where they fit best. 579 is really not that necessary at it just ends unexpectedly at a light shortly before the Liberty Bridge for an on ramp. 579 couldn't go much further, as the intersection before the tunnel would be a real pain to completely eliminate, though the light south of the tunnel could have been fixed in some manner.

279 isn't bad, it's just when it condenses where it meets 376 becomes a traffic nightmare as most traffic seems to want 376 and not Carson Street. A lot of merging on a tight bridge with limited sight lines.

Ohio River Blvd, Blvd of the Allies, Bigelow Blvd, all of those could have been upgraded in a better manner where at least freeway spurs could've been done simpler. For BotA, 579 could've continued in some manner down it back to 279. But, that is why the renumbering took place. Even PA28 is a freeway with an inept connect to 279.

[SFalcon71]

Boston, MA does not have a 3di to my knowledge in it's borders. US-1/I-90/I-93 do a good enough job. Although there is a 3di west of Boston between Worcester and Framingham, about 30 minutes or so outside the city.

[hotdogPi]

Boston, MA does not have a 3di to my knowledge in it's its borders. US-1/I-90/I-93 do a good enough job. Although there is a 3di west of Boston between Worcester and Framingham, about 30 minutes or so outside the city.

For city limits itself, Phoenix is larger than Boston.

When discussing metro areas (the original intent of this thread), I-495 (the 3di you're talking about) is considered to be part of the metro area.