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West Virginia Turnpike - Open Road Tolling

Started by Beltway, August 03, 2017, 09:58:14 PM

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Beltway

Are there any plans for Open Road Tolling (ORT) on the West Virginia Turnpike?

I noticed on my trip last week where I used the I-64/I-77 section that the two toll plazas on that section are rather undersized for the traffic and there is no high speed or even medium speed ORT lane.

The day is not too far away that six lanes (three each way) will be needed on the Turnpike.
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plain

I noticed that too, and the last time I travelled the turnpike was back in 2011 so I'm pretty sure it's worse now. The thing about that was they had two EZpass only lanes opened each direction at all the booths but few drivers actually utilized them from what I observed. I'm thinking maybe the majority of the users of that road doesn't have a transponder at all being that it's the only part of I-77 that carries a toll. Certain Virginians and Ohioans are more likely to have a transponder than say someone from the Carolinas (unless they're from Raleigh maybe) or Georgia, etc. I guess they could do a pay-by-mail thing along with ORT but I'm not sure how effective that would be given the amount of out of state traffic.
Newark born, Richmond bred

Bitmapped

Legislation passed this year finally allows for photo-based toll enforcement. Previously, photo/video-based vehicle enforcement was illegal in West Virginia because of code passed in response to residents being upset with photo speed enforcement in Ohio.

There have been some mentions of AET but if it happens, it would likely be a slow roll out to avoid displacing toll takers. New toll roads would likely be AET, though.

Beltway

Quote from: plain on August 03, 2017, 11:15:56 PM
I noticed that too, and the last time I travelled the turnpike was back in 2011 so I'm pretty sure it's worse now. The thing about that was they had two EZpass only lanes opened each direction at all the booths but few drivers actually utilized them from what I observed. I'm thinking maybe the majority of the users of that road doesn't have a transponder at all being that it's the only part of I-77 that carries a toll. Certain Virginians and Ohioans are more likely to have a transponder than say someone from the Carolinas (unless they're from Raleigh maybe) or Georgia, etc. I guess they could do a pay-by-mail thing along with ORT but I'm not sure how effective that would be given the amount of out of state traffic.

Only one EZPass lane was open in each direction.

I would think that any regular WV Turnpike user would benefit from having an EZPass.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

jeffandnicole

Quote from: plain on August 03, 2017, 11:15:56 PM
The thing about that was they had two EZpass only lanes opened each direction at all the booths but few drivers actually utilized them from what I observed.

EZ Pass lanes can be deceiving.  Since you can get over 4 or 5 times more traffic thru an EZ Pass lane in the time it takes a cash transaction to occur, what appears to be an underused lane is handling much more traffic than a cash-paying lane. 

SP Cook

I doubt the turnpike will adopt any open road tolling or any other system. 

The turnpike backups are generally only bad on holidays and such.  The Sunday after Thanksgiving, when the productive people return to North Carolina after visiting their parents in WV can have hour long waits.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SP Cook on August 04, 2017, 09:19:55 AM
I doubt the turnpike will adopt any open road tolling or any other system. 

The turnpike backups are generally only bad on holidays and such.  The Sunday after Thanksgiving, when the productive people return to North Carolina after visiting their parents in WV can have hour long waits.

About the only way to avoid that is to travel at another time.  There are just too many people unfamiliar with the highway at one time.  When I collected tolls, I realized that many times it's not always the toll taker causing the delays, but rather the motorist who's surprised they have to pay, they have to look around for money, and then they pull out a $20 bill anyway.  And before they leave, they ask directions for something.  Cut that down to just having the money ready greatly decreases the time spent at the toll plaza, and thus the traffic jam.

The NJ Turnpike did have similar delays at Interchange 1.  After their new, much wider plaza opened, it cut down the delays considerably. But people still get stuck at the next chokepoint, backing up to the NJ Turnpike anyway.

SP Cook

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 04, 2017, 09:34:28 AM
When I collected tolls, I realized that many times it's not always the toll taker causing the delays, but rather the motorist who's surprised they have to pay, they have to look around for money, and then they pull out a $20 bill anyway.

Observation.  Before EZ Pass and when the WVTP charged $1.25, if I did not have any change, I would pay with two $1 bills.  Logic would say that the vast majority of people would be paying with either a $1 bill and a quarter, or five quarters.  So they should have like a s***ton of quarters.  But, always, the toll taker would have on his little table 8 or so stacks of 75 cents, with no quarters, and that was my change (which the next toll taker got right back).  Even pennies.  I assume they just did not want to have anything in hand but $1 bills and quarters at the end of their shift. 

I also carry Carter Quarters (dollar coins)  (still do for parking lots) and would always get a dirty look from the toll takers if I paid with a dollar coin and a quarter.


vdeane

I don't recall there being ANY E-ZPass-only lanes on the WV Turnpike when I drove it to the Beckley roadmeet in April.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Bitmapped

Quote from: vdeane on August 04, 2017, 12:54:42 PM
I don't recall there being ANY E-ZPass-only lanes on the WV Turnpike when I drove it to the Beckley roadmeet in April.

They're not high speed lanes, but except during peak travel times around holidays, normally 1 or 2 lanes in each direction is set aside for E-ZPass.

VTGoose

Quote from: Bitmapped on August 04, 2017, 01:13:06 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 04, 2017, 12:54:42 PM
I don't recall there being ANY E-ZPass-only lanes on the WV Turnpike when I drove it to the Beckley roadmeet in April.

They're not high speed lanes, but except during peak travel times around holidays, normally 1 or 2 lanes in each direction is set aside for E-ZPass.

That must be what I ran into the last time I was up the Turnpike -- there was an E-ZPass lane but it wasn't exclusive. It was also a slow-speed (5MPH) lane to get a reading. If WV would just upgrade their readers it would make having a pass a little more convenient. After all, if Florida can read a SunPass transponder or sticker at 65-70 MPH, the hoopies should be able to upgrade to maybe 35 mph.

Bruce in Blacksburg
"Get in the fast lane, grandma!  The bingo game is ready to roll!"

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SP Cook on August 04, 2017, 10:21:39 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 04, 2017, 09:34:28 AM
When I collected tolls, I realized that many times it's not always the toll taker causing the delays, but rather the motorist who's surprised they have to pay, they have to look around for money, and then they pull out a $20 bill anyway.

Observation.  Before EZ Pass and when the WVTP charged $1.25, if I did not have any change, I would pay with two $1 bills.  Logic would say that the vast majority of people would be paying with either a $1 bill and a quarter, or five quarters.  So they should have like a s***ton of quarters.  But, always, the toll taker would have on his little table 8 or so stacks of 75 cents, with no quarters, and that was my change (which the next toll taker got right back).  Even pennies.  I assume they just did not want to have anything in hand but $1 bills and quarters at the end of their shift. 

I also carry Carter Quarters (dollar coins)  (still do for parking lots) and would always get a dirty look from the toll takers if I paid with a dollar coin and a quarter.


Personally, the toll takers would want $20 bills at the end of their shift.  Much, much easier to count.  I would often get rid of my $1's, especially as my shift was nearing the end.  For example, if someone gave me a $20 for a $3.50 toll, I would give back 2 $5's and 6 $1's.  If they gave me an odd look, I realized I could quickly explain it by saying the next 3 tolls were a $3 toll, a $2 toll and a $1 toll, which they would now have exact change for.  And for me, counting 1 $10 is faster than 2 $5's.

Then again, they gave us a wide berth of liberty to hand out funky combinations of money.  If another turnpike authority says that you must give out change in the fewest bills possible (in my example, 1 $10, 1 $5 and 1 $1, then they're stuck doing that.

But as you mentioned, you got back dimes, nickels and pennies.  Logic would say for a $1.25 toll, toll takers would get a $1 bill and a quarter.  This is where I now say: it is amazing, scary, and amazingly scary who you're traveling alongside with at 75 mph on the highways. You have no idea what those other people are thinking.  People will sit there and, instead of just handing over a $5 or a $20, they'll look around for 5 nickels or whatever.  And that's why traffic backs up!

As for dollar coins - no one likes them.  And if someone has one, their main goal is to get rid of it.  If you hand one over, chances are that toll taker gave it back to the next person who had to get a dollar in change.

vdeane

Quote from: Bitmapped on August 04, 2017, 01:13:06 PM
Quote from: vdeane on August 04, 2017, 12:54:42 PM
I don't recall there being ANY E-ZPass-only lanes on the WV Turnpike when I drove it to the Beckley roadmeet in April.

They're not high speed lanes, but except during peak travel times around holidays, normally 1 or 2 lanes in each direction is set aside for E-ZPass.
They didn't even have that when I was there.  All the lanes were shared between cash and E-ZPass.

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

hbelkins

Apparently that situation is atypical. Every time I've driven the WV Turnpike, there have been a couple of E-ZPass only lanes at each mainline booth (Cabin Creek and Mossy; I have only driven the southern third of the turnpike once in the past 20 years).

We were discussing elsewhere the Beckley Corridor L toll booth. I got my WV E-ZPass statement earlier this week, and was charged 26 cents for entry onto the southbound turnpike from southbound Corridor L.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Bitmapped

Quote from: hbelkins on August 05, 2017, 01:03:02 AM
Apparently that situation is atypical. Every time I've driven the WV Turnpike, there have been a couple of E-ZPass only lanes at each mainline booth (Cabin Creek and Mossy; I have only driven the southern third of the turnpike once in the past 20 years).

We were discussing elsewhere the Beckley Corridor L toll booth. I got my WV E-ZPass statement earlier this week, and was charged 26 cents for entry onto the southbound turnpike from southbound Corridor L.

The North Beckley ramp generally doesn't have an E-ZPass only lane, but it has two coin drop lanes. The mainline plazas normally have at least 1 other than at holidays, so not having one present at a non-holiday time would have been odd.

I haven't used North Beckley since February, but I checked my statement and I was charged $0.00 for it. WV E-ZPass is normally implemented as a $5 unlimited "commuter pass" for North Beckley, so I'm not sure why you would have been charged unless something changed in the past couple months.

SP Cook

The times that the turnpike does not have a dedicated EZ Pass lanes are the times it would be the most useful.  When it is crowded they will staff all the booths.  Thus unlike more highly traveled toll roads, the only real advantages to a WV EZ Pass are the discount and the convience.  It really does not save you much time.

vdeane

Quote from: Bitmapped on August 07, 2017, 09:40:22 AM
I haven't used North Beckley since February, but I checked my statement and I was charged $0.00 for it. WV E-ZPass is normally implemented as a $5 unlimited "commuter pass" for North Beckley, so I'm not sure why you would have been charged unless something changed in the past couple months.
Maybe one has to be a WV resident as well to get the toll waived?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Bitmapped

Quote from: vdeane on August 07, 2017, 12:58:11 PM
Quote from: Bitmapped on August 07, 2017, 09:40:22 AM
I haven't used North Beckley since February, but I checked my statement and I was charged $0.00 for it. WV E-ZPass is normally implemented as a $5 unlimited "commuter pass" for North Beckley, so I'm not sure why you would have been charged unless something changed in the past couple months.
Maybe one has to be a WV resident as well to get the toll waived?

No, that would be unconstitutional. The plans are open to anyone no matter their residency.

There is a $0.26 WV E-ZPass toll rate shown at http://www.transportation.wv.gov/Turnpike/travel_resources/Pages/Toll-Rates.aspx, but both of the E-ZPass discount plans targeted at personal users include North Beckley for free (see http://www.transportation.wv.gov/Turnpike/EZPass/FAQ/Pages/Individual-Account-Information.aspx). I'm wondering if something isn't configured right for H.B.'s acccount.

Scott5114

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 04, 2017, 03:47:26 PM
As for dollar coins - no one likes them.  And if someone has one, their main goal is to get rid of it.  If you hand one over, chances are that toll taker gave it back to the next person who had to get a dollar in change.

I don't mind having them in my personal funds–they're useful for vending machines and other things with paranoid bill acceptors, and I'd rather get my change as a dollar coin than 20 nickels or whatever stupid thing the machine wants to dispense otherwise–but I hate having someone pay with them at work, as it is next to impossible to get anyone to take them as change without being a dick about it. They just hang out in the fifth coin pocket until they end up in the deposit.

50¢ pieces and $2 bills are readily accepted by most people, although since I work in a casino now people give me static about the $2s sometimes because they don't seem to understand the concept that not every dollar that I give you has to go into a slot machine. It's okay to take money home!
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

hbelkins

Quote from: Scott5114 on August 08, 2017, 06:35:19 AM... not every dollar that I give you has to go into a slot machine. It's okay to take money home!

Isn't that heresy for a casino employee to say such a thing?  :bigass:


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



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