Interstate 11

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah that's probably what is going to ultimately doom that segment of Beale west of I-40, it will need room for a full interchange

Well, my point (which I failed to properly deliver, in rereading my post) was that the EB-NB and the SB-WB directional traffic flows are likely not going to be very high because they don't make sense. Even if there weren't a ramp, and traffic had to use Beale Street, I don't think it would ever warrant a direct connection ramp and, even if it did, they would probably just put it up at the actual I-11 interchange instead. I think it would likely save a tremendous amount of money if they just left it SB-EB & WB-NB only.
ADOT has the analysis of traffic counts in the same assessment where they have the alternatives and final recommendations, so I may look at that and send out my thoughts on it. Because everyone loves unsolicited advice...

But because Beale is the first gas you see since, I believe, Boulder City, I don't think it will cause issues beyond the businesses who are solely reliant on the "impulse stop" traffic (I'm sure there's a term for it, but I'm adopting the supermarket term to it), since most of that traffic would be able to skip Beale. However, things like gas stations, hotels and restaurants can easily place signs at the new Beale Street exit on I-11, in addition to the I-40 exit that already features them, and all be within sight distance of the new interstate due to the terrain (it comes downhill toward 40).
If anything, the increased traffic will actually improve Beale, I think. It will be an easier and more logical place to pop in more roadside businesses; maybe getting rid of those skeezy low-end motels there and putting up a nice, new chain.

Kingman is so, so poorly planned. They just let anything and everything pop up, with no traffic controls, and Stockton Hill north of I-40 is a mess right now. You can turn left into and out of pretty much anything. I think it's just the typical small town that grew a little too much, but still wants to think it's a small town.

No, no I think that I got where you were going with the partial ramp design encouraging traffic to head directly east into downtown Kingman and ultimately Andy Devine/Old 66.  I'm sure from the standpoint of how many more people it would push past the Powerhouse Museum the city would be way on board with it.  The only crappy thing that is going to prevent growth with new gas stations and hotels is the cliffs on one side followed by the railroad tracks on the other.  Things don't open back up until you hit Stockton Hill and Hualapai Mountain Road, come to think of it the downtown was poorly placed for a location founded in the 1880s even.

There is a nasty look Texaco or something up near the state line somewhere around White Hills.  I know there is another off-brand one somewhere near there as well but I would gather with the freeway upgrades they would meet their demise at the hands of I-11 construction.  Maybe some enterprising individual would a truck service station up on White Hills Road or one of the few places that would actually get an exit ramp.  I'm thinking that Santa Claus and Nothing are pretty much doomed at this point, good thing I already got my photos years ago. 

[Bobby5280]

A fatal collision happened on US 93 about 30 miles NW of Kingman yesterday (Sun. 7/24/16) between a Dallas Cowboys bus and a van carrying 4 people. All four in the van were killed in the accident. No one on the bus was seriously hurt. No Cowboys players were on the bus, just team staff. The Cowboys bus was headed to an event in Las Vegas.

US 93 is four lane divided between Las Vegas and Kingman, but the road has numerous at-grade crossings. The news report said the van was making an illegal left turn and pulled out in front of the Cowboys bus.

[coatimundi]

I think the problem is that they get so many tourists up there, going between Vegas and the Grand Canyon, and they get a little lost and do something stupid (or want to get pictures but refuse to stop and just slow down and weave, like they do here) on a very high-speed and dangerous stretch of road.
This isn't necessarily just a line in the desert. You have tourist traffic going to Chloride, because a couple of books told people to go there so they now do, and you have some roads accessing isolated parts of Lake Mead.
But I don't think turning it into a full on interstate would be that hard. In fact, I could see this being like I-10 in Texas, where there actually a couple of grade intersections with some ranch roads. It would be silly to build a frontage road all the way out to some of them. Even just a few interchanges would go a long way.

[NE2]

Damn. Should have killed some Cowboys.

[Max Rockatansky]

I think the problem is that they get so many tourists up there, going between Vegas and the Grand Canyon, and they get a little lost and do something stupid (or want to get pictures but refuse to stop and just slow down and weave, like they do here) on a very high-speed and dangerous stretch of road.
This isn't necessarily just a line in the desert. You have tourist traffic going to Chloride, because a couple of books told people to go there so they now do, and you have some roads accessing isolated parts of Lake Mead.
But I don't think turning it into a full on interstate would be that hard. In fact, I could see this being like I-10 in Texas, where there actually a couple of grade intersections with some ranch roads. It would be silly to build a frontage road all the way out to some of them. Even just a few interchanges would go a long way.

Bus crashes aside that piece of US 93 used to be a wild ride up until a little after the turn of the century.  I remember slogging through all that two-lane from Wickenburg to Kingman and trying to pass people whenever possible.  US 93 to the Hoover Dam was basically a complete disaster after 9/11 with the back ups.  That's really when NV 163, AZ 68 and US 95 got all nice since the truckers couldn't take US 93 to Vegas anymore.

But I do think a lot of tourists get lost up there thinking places like Grasshopper Junction and White Hills are still real towns where they can stop and expect 21st century levels of civilization.  Pretty much everything up there was a mining town or something similar and really exist only crumbling shack form....  Makes me wonder...what is going to happen to Santa Claus, AZ or Nothing?  I would love a good dirt track off a frontage road with a section of old US 93 for future road lore purposes. 

[sparker]

Guy I used to work with back in Ontario bought a 5-acre parcel on the road from 93 to Dolan Springs back around 2010; he was going to put a motorcycle/truck repair shop out there (it was about 600 yards east of the 93 intersection according to the paperwork I saw).  Said he'd send pix of his new business; never did (I'm guessing that idea was abandoned; the last cel # I had for him is no longer valid). According to the last census data, Dolan Springs has a population of about 2500 or so.  Question: has anybody here actually been to/near this "town" in the last couple of years?  Is it a viable town or just a collection of various buildings?   

[Max Rockatansky]

Guy I used to work with back in Ontario bought a 5-acre parcel on the road from 93 to Dolan Springs back around 2010; he was going to put a motorcycle/truck repair shop out there (it was about 600 yards east of the 93 intersection according to the paperwork I saw).  Said he'd send pix of his new business; never did (I'm guessing that idea was abandoned; the last cel # I had for him is no longer valid). According to the last census data, Dolan Springs has a population of about 2500 or so.  Question: has anybody here actually been to/near this "town" in the last couple of years?  Is it a viable town or just a collection of various buildings?

It's actually just a cobbled pile of prefabs, scrap, dirt roads and desert folk.  There is a part near 11th Street that "resembles" what most people would consider a town but it's pretty spartan at best...I seem to recall a Family Dollar.  It's actually a CDP just like Golden Valley and not anything incorporated.

[coatimundi]

It's actually a CDP just like Golden Valley and not anything incorporated.

Golden Valley is a good comparison for Dolan Springs: acres of unimproved lots with no utility hookups that attract people who don't want you around. Mostly retirees. There's some weird stuff in both places.

[sparker]

That's more or less what I figured as far as Dolan Springs' "configuration", such as it is.  The western strip of AZ seems to be a magnet for survivalists, pathological "loners", and conspiracy theorists (my acquaintance who bought the property in Dolan certainly fit the latter category!).  I suppose it's a decent destination if you're trying to escape from civilization's demons -- real or imagined -- and can handle the summers!

[Max Rockatansky]

I actually found the summers around Kingman to be kind of...well nice at least in comparison to what I was usually sitting in with Phoenix.  That more than anything kind of makes me wonder how Bullhead and Lake Havasu got bigger than Kingman with the favorable weather...AND more importantly location.  Basically you're pretty at a good mid-point between two major cities with easy Interstate access.

White Hills and Grasshopper Junction are just like Golden Valley or Dolan Springs.  The weirdest story out there is how Santa Claus came to be and how long it was able to survive being basically a colony of all-year Christmas elves on the side of US 93...it's a special brand of insanity you only get out in that desert. 

[sparker]

I remember a cross-country trip back in the summer of '92, when I pulled into my motel in Tempe at a little before 1 a.m. -- and it was still 112 degrees outside!  The motel room was lukewarm at best, so I spent the next couple of hours at the only restaurant I could find open at 1:30 -- a Chili's (never liked their food; everything except the ribs tastes like canned salsa -- and they were out of ribs that night!).  I think I drank them out of iced tea by the time I left!  That was the hottest Phoenix summer I've ever experienced (although I understand that recent years have seen even hotter day/night temperatures!) -- and the last time I spent a night in the area!  Sorry, Phoenicians, but if I-11 eventually allows me to bypass the city without having to get out of my air-conditioned SUV, I'll be a happy non-camper!

[Max Rockatansky]

I remember a cross-country trip back in the summer of '92, when I pulled into my motel in Tempe at a little before 1 a.m. -- and it was still 112 degrees outside!  The motel room was lukewarm at best, so I spent the next couple of hours at the only restaurant I could find open at 1:30 -- a Chili's (never liked their food; everything except the ribs tastes like canned salsa -- and they were out of ribs that night!).  I think I drank them out of iced tea by the time I left!  That was the hottest Phoenix summer I've ever experienced (although I understand that recent years have seen even hotter day/night temperatures!) -- and the last time I spent a night in the area!  Sorry, Phoenicians, but if I-11 eventually allows me to bypass the city without having to get out of my air-conditioned SUV, I'll be a happy non-camper!

If you're coming through I-10 Phoenix can be pretty easily bypassed already via AZ 85 and I-8.  Not that Gila Bend, Casa Grande or even Tucson are much better with hot weather....I'd say Tucson is usually 5-10 degrees cooler on an average day.

[sparker]

I'd already gotten in the habit of bypassing Phoenix by using CA 86/111 and I-8 when I lived in the L.A. area; one of my more common overnight stops was the La Quinta in Marana, near Tucson (and you're right, it's about 7-15 degrees cooler down there).  But now that I live "up north", bypassing both greater L.A. and Phoenix (via I-40 and US 93) in one fell swoop is a bit more convoluted (the Inland Empire, traffic-wise, is a lost cause these days).  Long-range, I've got a trip planned to Austin & New Orleans (definitely a food-oriented trip); I thought of using 303 and backtracking on 10 to 85 -- but I just might skip Southern AZ altogether and stay on 40 to US 84, then use 84 SE via Lubbock to get to Austin (the last bit on US 183).  Never done that corridor aside from 84 between I-20 and Lubbock, so it'll be fresh meat to me!   

[coatimundi]

84 between Lubbock and I-20 is extremely boring, but it's an efficient way to do that. You just have to watch the weather. I drove it last year, and there was a tornado warning with a hailstorm in Clovis. But I was there for the night so just got to be a spectator instead of trying to drive through it.
Going to Tucson, we typically take 40 to US 95 to Parker, then to AZ 85. It takes longer than the LA route but only if you can somehow dodge traffic in LA, which isn't really possible unless you drive through in the middle of the night.

[Max Rockatansky]

Another alternate I liked was getting to CA 62 and U.S. 95 via something like old 66 and Amboy Road.  Certainly not the fastest route but definitely has virtually no traffic.  Even 247 was halfway decent to get down to 62 from Barstow. 

[coatimundi]

Another alternate I liked was getting to CA 62 and U.S. 95 via something like old 66 and Amboy Road.  Certainly not the fastest route but definitely has virtually no traffic.  Even 247 was halfway decent to get down to 62 from Barstow.

If you take 62 and Amboy Road, you either have to go out of the way to reach 29 Palms on paved roads or take a dirt road for a couple of miles. I don't mind the latter, but the condition wasn't great and I can see why people would not want to drive it.
On a 64 atlas I just got, that route is shown, and that's surprising to me. I guess the road was paved early on for the salt operation.

[Max Rockatansky]

Another alternate I liked was getting to CA 62 and U.S. 95 via something like old 66 and Amboy Road.  Certainly not the fastest route but definitely has virtually no traffic.  Even 247 was halfway decent to get down to 62 from Barstow.

If you take 62 and Amboy Road, you either have to go out of the way to reach 29 Palms on paved roads or take a dirt road for a couple of miles. I don't mind the latter, but the condition wasn't great and I can see why people would not want to drive it.
On a 64 atlas I just got, that route is shown, and that's surprising to me. I guess the road was paved early on for the salt operation.

Yeah I never minded some of those dirt tracks out in the salt mines but even detouring to 29 Palms wasn't so bad since they had really the only food available to Parker.  Actually I ended up jumping down to 177 and I-10 back in February since I got caught in traffic back on 58 at Kramer Junction on the way to Phoenix, surprisingly it was good time saver. I was hoping to head through Joshua Tree but alas wasn't to be.  I was planning on taking all of 247 but took US 395 down to 18 because I got so sick of the truckers.

Do you have a scan of the map?  I've always been curious to see what 62 looked like in its early development.

[coatimundi]

Do you have a scan of the map?  I've always been curious to see what 62 looked like in its early development.

It's a smaller (maybe 5x13") Hammond US atlas, so the detail is piss poor. I just wanted to see how some of the interstates nationwide had progressed, and it was only like $4. It'd be more worth your time to find someone on here with a California map from the same time period.

[NE2]

It'd be more worth your time to find someone on here with a California map from the same time period.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/view/search?q=caltrans&sort=Date

[coatimundi]

It'd be more worth your time to find someone on here with a California map from the same time period.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/view/search?q=caltrans&sort=Date

Reported to DHS!

I would hope that Max already knew about David Rumsey and his maptabulous site.

[Max Rockatansky]

It'd be more worth your time to find someone on here with a California map from the same time period.

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/view/search?q=caltrans&sort=Date

Reported to DHS!

I would hope that Max already knew about David Rumsey and his maptabulous site.

Actually that would be a negative.  Just opened up the page and it's way more than I expected for California maps....shit I know what I'll be doing tonight now. 

[coatimundi]

Oh, well there ya go. "A whole new world..."
If you search "Shell", he's also got pretty much every Shell map produced in 1953. That's mostly what I've used it for.

[Max Rockatansky]

Yeah I've got some really good stuff from Florida, Michigan, Arizona, and Nevada but never had much of a good California map resource.  Already confirmed my suspicion about 168 using the Tollhouse Grade.  Most of the stuff I had mostly pertained to Southern California US Highways like 66 or 91.

[Max Rockatansky]

Been almost a full year since this thread has been active.  ADOT put this video out today:

That's a whole lot of talk about benefits and far flung plans for a project that really hasn't even been started in Arizona yet.

[kkt]

Canada?  lol