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Phoenix Area Loops

Started by OCGuy81, May 04, 2012, 10:01:16 AM

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Pink Jazz

Quote from: dfwmapper on August 20, 2015, 07:28:48 AM
If we're going to play the fictional numbers game, then both Gateway and Pinal should have even first digits because both will start and end at another Interstate, while SR 30 could get an even I-x11.

That means SR 51 would have to get an even first digit as well if Loop 101 becomes I-210.  SR 51 after all was once proposed as I-510.

Note that I have heard rumors that at one point that the Interstate designations that were considered for the Phoenix area loops were I-410 for Loop 101, I-810 for Loop 202, and I-617 for Loop 303.  I am not sure if there is any truth to these rumors or not.


dfwmapper

I believe the southern portion of AZ 51 is still substandard and thus it would be ineligible for Interstate designation, even in fantasy numbering land.

There were definitely ideas of numbering some of the freeways as 3dis. Loop 202 was actually going to be 217 at one point, likely a remnant of the days when I-10 was planned to follow the Maricopa Freeway and continue west at what is now the Durango Curve. Not sure about 303 - the idea for it came along much later than the others so it may have been after the decision was made to abandon the 3di numbering.

iBallasticwolf2

Only two things are infinite in this world, stupidity, and I-75 construction

dfwmapper

Yes. I also think there might be some issues with sightlines on some of the curves and the up and down it does for some of the overpasses. The original configuration of the Superstition had the same problems, though that was all flattened out when they did the widening.

ztonyg

Quote from: Pink Jazz on August 20, 2015, 11:59:17 AM
Quote from: dfwmapper on August 20, 2015, 07:28:48 AM
If we're going to play the fictional numbers game, then both Gateway and Pinal should have even first digits because both will start and end at another Interstate, while SR 30 could get an even I-x11.

That means SR 51 would have to get an even first digit as well if Loop 101 becomes I-210.  SR 51 after all was once proposed as I-510.

Note that I have heard rumors that at one point that the Interstate designations that were considered for the Phoenix area loops were I-410 for Loop 101, I-810 for Loop 202, and I-617 for Loop 303.  I am not sure if there is any truth to these rumors or not.

I think I may have made one of those rumors.

As AZ 210 already exists (in Tucson), I felt that Loop 101 would be I-410, Loop 202 would be I-610, AZ 51 would be I-510 (as it would act as a "spur" to downtown Phoenix from I-410, and Loop 303 would be I-217.  The Superstition could also become I-110 or I-310 (although unnecessary).  AZ 24 could be I-710 and the Northern Parkway could be I-117 or I-317.  Of course, this is all a fictional world. 

TheStack

Quote from: swbrotha100 on August 18, 2015, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: blanketcomputer on August 16, 2015, 10:57:53 PM
This is probably a bit of specific question, but does anyone know anything about a dip in the road on Loop 202 Red Mountain near Higley Road? This is the location https://goo.gl/maps/dCjNJ but it it hardly noticeable on street view. Eastbound, it is a very noticeable dip down a few inches, and about 200 feet later it jumps sharply back up.

This dip has has existed for years, but I am not 100% certain that it always existed. Does anyone remember this dip existing when Loop 202 was constructed or was it some sort of damage the occurred after the fact? In the last few weeks orange 'Dip' advisory signs popped up, even though the dip has existed for long as I remember. It appears they are rebuilding this dip and another section near Val Vista as part of the HOV lane project. Traffic is shifted on to the newly paved median and the old lanes are blocked off and are being reconstructed.

I had briefly heard of possible fissures (?) or soil issues along some portions of the Loop 202 Red Mountain section at the time of initial construction.
Would this have anything to do with the bridge that collapsed
Quote from: swbrotha100 on August 18, 2015, 02:08:45 PM
Quote from: blanketcomputer on August 16, 2015, 10:57:53 PM
This is probably a bit of specific question, but does anyone know anything about a dip in the road on Loop 202 Red Mountain near Higley Road? This is the location https://goo.gl/maps/dCjNJ but it it hardly noticeable on street view. Eastbound, it is a very noticeable dip down a few inches, and about 200 feet later it jumps sharply back up.

This dip has has existed for years, but I am not 100% certain that it always existed. Does anyone remember this dip existing when Loop 202 was constructed or was it some sort of damage the occurred after the fact? In the last few weeks orange 'Dip' advisory signs popped up, even though the dip has existed for long as I remember. It appears they are rebuilding this dip and another section near Val Vista as part of the HOV lane project. Traffic is shifted on to the newly paved median and the old lanes are blocked off and are being reconstructed.

I had briefly heard of possible fissures (?) or soil issues along some portions of the Loop 202 Red Mountain section at the time of initial construction.
Would this have anything to do with the bridge that collapsed on the eastern part of the 202 Red Mountain while it was under construction in 2007?

LGLS740


blanketcomputer

Quote from: TheStack on August 23, 2015, 01:41:25 PM
Would this have anything to do with the bridge that collapsed on the eastern part of the 202 Red Mountain while it was under construction in 2007?

LGLS740

No, that portion was further east, near Power Road, over the CAP canal and the Spook Hill flood retardation structure. Untied girders fell off of the support columns.

swbrotha100

Quote from: dfwmapper on August 20, 2015, 08:28:35 PM
I believe the southern portion of AZ 51 is still substandard and thus it would be ineligible for Interstate designation, even in fantasy numbering land.

There were definitely ideas of numbering some of the freeways as 3dis. Loop 202 was actually going to be 217 at one point, likely a remnant of the days when I-10 was planned to follow the Maricopa Freeway and continue west at what is now the Durango Curve. Not sure about 303 - the idea for it came along much later than the others so it may have been after the decision was made to abandon the 3di numbering.

From looking at Loop 303 planning PDFs, ADOT first proposed SR 517 for Loop 303. 117 and 417 were once proposed for current Loop 101.

Pink Jazz

I was on the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway in Mesa today, and it looks like the construction from Loop 101 to Gilbert Road is practically finished, however, for some reason the speed limit is still reduced.  Also, I don't know if this is a first for Arizona, but that portion of Loop 202 uses narrow exit gore signs (the type where the arrow is below the exit number).

ztonyg

Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 08, 2015, 08:05:30 PM
I was on the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway in Mesa today, and it looks like the construction from Loop 101 to Gilbert Road is practically finished, however, for some reason the speed limit is still reduced.  Also, I don't know if this is a first for Arizona, but that portion of Loop 202 uses narrow exit gore signs (the type where the arrow is below the exit number).

The "narrow exit gore signs" first popped up on I-17 (between Northern Ave and the I-10 stack) about 3-4 months ago.

Pink Jazz

Quote from: ztonyg on October 09, 2015, 01:52:38 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 08, 2015, 08:05:30 PM
I was on the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway in Mesa today, and it looks like the construction from Loop 101 to Gilbert Road is practically finished, however, for some reason the speed limit is still reduced.  Also, I don't know if this is a first for Arizona, but that portion of Loop 202 uses narrow exit gore signs (the type where the arrow is below the exit number).

The "narrow exit gore signs" first popped up on I-17 (between Northern Ave and the I-10 stack) about 3-4 months ago.

Interesting to know.  I rarely go out that way since I live and work in the East Valley.  I wonder if the South Mountain Freeway (if built) will also use this style of gore sign.

swbrotha100

Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 09, 2015, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: ztonyg on October 09, 2015, 01:52:38 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 08, 2015, 08:05:30 PM
I was on the Loop 202 Red Mountain Freeway in Mesa today, and it looks like the construction from Loop 101 to Gilbert Road is practically finished, however, for some reason the speed limit is still reduced.  Also, I don't know if this is a first for Arizona, but that portion of Loop 202 uses narrow exit gore signs (the type where the arrow is below the exit number).

The "narrow exit gore signs" first popped up on I-17 (between Northern Ave and the I-10 stack) about 3-4 months ago.

Interesting to know.  I rarely go out that way since I live and work in the East Valley.  I wonder if the South Mountain Freeway (if built) will also use this style of gore sign.

I-10 exit 122 (Perryville Rd) was the first instance where I saw gore signs like this. Don't know what ADOT plans on doing when replacing gore signs in the future.

blanketcomputer

The narrow exit signs on Loop 202 Red Mountain might just be a contractor choice. The sign for the new exit off US 60 at Meridian Rd is the wider sign with the arrow to the right of the number. I don't know if ADOT has any preference on the exit signs. The mix of overhead and side-mounted ramp meters on Loop 202 Red Mountain is kinda peculiar too. I wonder if there is some sort of guideline to picking or if it was just right-of-way issues.

The reduced speed limit on Loop 202 Red Mountain should be over soon. The new HOV lanes just need to be striped, and a few other spots are missing thermoplastic striping and reflective markers. It took less than a year for 20 new lane miles to be constructed.

Pink Jazz

I found out that the narrow exit gore signs are in fact the new ADOT preference for urban freeways, but only if part of a major reconstruction or mass sign replacement, so I guess the South Mountain Freeway will also have this style as well.  Existing urban freeways (except if reconstructed or part of a mass sign replacement), as well as all rural freeways (new or existing) will continue to use the traditional wide exit gore signs.

Also, I wonder which interchanges on the Loop 202 SanTan Freeway will get ramp meters.  I would probably say that Arizona Avenue, Gilbert Road, and Val Vista Drive are the three most likely.

707

Spent Christmas in Phoenix and San Diego this year, meaning I got a good first hand look at Loop 303. The El Mirage interchange is mostly constructed and looks like besides adding the barriers on the overpasses, is almost good to go. 303 traffic is in the mean time directed to use the eastbound exit ramps at the under construction El Mirage interchange. The US 60 interchange however still has a ton of work to go. They finished building the new bridge, only to tear apart the pre-existing overpass at Grand Avenue and are now building another one from scratch. Currently, 303 traffic is using the future eastbound freeway overpass. No sign of the proposed exit ramps being built as of yet. As for El Mirage to I-17, several proposed overpasses are left unbuilt as well as future exit/flyover ramps onto I-17, but the final link Sonoran Desert Drive from 303 to the pre-existing segment east of I-17 is almost finished and has street lamps installed. Though Wikipedia states construction on 303 south towards Yuma Road should have started in 2015, there are no signs of construction at all from I-10 south. Also, ADOT is slowly beginning to reopen long closed exits at Loop 101 as the widening project winds to a close.

pumpkineater2

Quote from: 707 on January 05, 2016, 05:03:32 PM
They finished building the new bridge, only to tear apart the pre-existing overpass at Grand Avenue and are now building another one from scratch.

Huh? That's weird. They never said in the project overview that they were going to rebuild the existing bridge, only that they were constructing a new one right beside it. I wonder if they were planning this all along or if something caused them to change their minds. I know the old bridge wasn't as wide as the new one though.

I've driven the 303 a couple times now, and I gotta say , ADOT did a mighty fine job with constructing the freeway south of US-60 to I-10. It looks like it was paved by angels  :clap:
Come ride with me to the distant shore...

707

#166
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on January 05, 2016, 10:49:26 PM
Quote from: 707 on January 05, 2016, 05:03:32 PM
They finished building the new bridge, only to tear apart the pre-existing overpass at Grand Avenue and are now building another one from scratch.

Huh? That's weird. They never said in the project overview that they were going to rebuild the existing bridge, only that they were constructing a new one right beside it. I wonder if they were planning this all along or if something caused them to change their minds. I know the old bridge wasn't as wide as the new one though.

I've driven the 303 a couple times now, and I gotta say , ADOT did a mighty fine job with constructing the freeway south of US-60 to I-10. It looks like it was paved by angels  :clap:

They say they're rebuilding the existing bridge where I've read too. But seeing it up close looks like they are literally rebuilding the entire thing. If anything's left of the old bridge, it would be the pilings, because everything from the actual roadbed up has been torn away.

But I agree. Loop 303 is a real wonderful freeway where they've finished it.



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