New Jersey Turnpike

Started by hotdogPi, December 22, 2013, 09:04:24 PM

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roadman65

Of course the merge is much better now, as going from 10 to 6 is a true bottleneck.  As I followed along with the project on line, as I have not lived in NJ since 1990, just before the extension of the truck lanes to south of 8A completed, so therfore I have no idea what went on since then.  Only that this last project claimed to be built to ease choking at 8A that was happening.

Prior to August 1990, I never really noticed any choking at 9 where all twelve lanes became six lanes, but I never drove the road religiously.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


jeffandnicole

A lot of development occurred since 1990.  The merge south of 8A was made worse as traffic from the car lanes wanted to access the Service Plaza less than a mile south of the merge point.   And while the merge was always the chokepoint, there was really congestion issues throughout the corridor between Interchange 6 and 8A in both directions.   

Going back to that development...Even though it never gets mentioned, the newer NJ Transit Hamilton Train Station in Hamilton, NJ really increased development in the general area.  It made the greater Trenton area, Burlington County, NJ and even Bucks County, PA a suburb of New York City.  People could move into the area where housing was much cheaper and land more plentiful compared to North Jersey, and even though it made for a long commute they would catch the train to work.  But unlike what a lot of mass-transit optimists think, those new train stations bring a lot of vehicle traffic with them too.  So that increased traffic in the area.  And warehouses found the area desirable to move their goods up and down the east coast, as it's fairly central to the region, and there was a boost in population to find employees.

The next area that's becoming a chokepoint is around Interchange 4, where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes per direction.  During rush hours, especially in the afternoon, southbound traffic between interchanges 4 and 3 is starting to experience semi-regular congestion.  While we have I-295 parallel to the NJ Turnpike down here, that highway will experience regular 10 mile backups, and people bail from 295 onto the Turnpike.

On peak travel days normally associated with summer travel or holiday travel, the entire 4 lane stretch between the Delaware Memorial Bridge and Interchange 4 can be a bit slow.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 19, 2016, 01:47:13 PM
The next area that's becoming a chokepoint is around Interchange 4, where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes per direction.  During rush hours, especially in the afternoon, southbound traffic between interchanges 4 and 3 is starting to experience semi-regular congestion.  While we have I-295 parallel to the NJ Turnpike down here, that highway will experience regular 10 mile backups, and people bail from 295 onto the Turnpike.

On peak travel days normally associated with summer travel or holiday travel, the entire 4 lane stretch between the Delaware Memorial Bridge and Interchange 4 can be a bit slow.

Agreed, though I have not personally experienced it to be  that bad - but I have been  stuck in southbound traffic from U.S. 322 (Exit 2) to the southern mainline toll plaza more than once (but not since I have been using an in-vehicle application that does a reasonable job of mapping congestion ahead - I-295 that far south is seldom congested unless there's a crash), and it's an easy enough jump via N.J. 73, N.J. 168 or U.S. 322.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 19, 2016, 01:59:13 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 19, 2016, 01:47:13 PM
The next area that's becoming a chokepoint is around Interchange 4, where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes per direction.  During rush hours, especially in the afternoon, southbound traffic between interchanges 4 and 3 is starting to experience semi-regular congestion.  While we have I-295 parallel to the NJ Turnpike down here, that highway will experience regular 10 mile backups, and people bail from 295 onto the Turnpike.

On peak travel days normally associated with summer travel or holiday travel, the entire 4 lane stretch between the Delaware Memorial Bridge and Interchange 4 can be a bit slow.

Agreed, though I have not personally experienced it to be  that bad - but I have been  stuck in southbound traffic from U.S. 322 (Exit 2) to the southern mainline toll plaza more than once (but not since I have been using an in-vehicle application that does a reasonable job of mapping congestion ahead - I-295 that far south is seldom congested unless there's a crash), and it's an easy enough jump via N.J. 73, N.J. 168 or U.S. 322.

Much of my local travel takes me over the Turnpike in various spots, so I get to view this quite often without being stuck in it!

jemacedo9

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 19, 2016, 01:47:13 PM
The next area that's becoming a chokepoint is around Interchange 4, where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes per direction.  During rush hours, especially in the afternoon, southbound traffic between interchanges 4 and 3 is starting to experience semi-regular congestion.  While we have I-295 parallel to the NJ Turnpike down here, that highway will experience regular 10 mile backups, and people bail from 295 onto the Turnpike.

Are there plans to widen the southernmost section to 3 lanes each?  Or is there an implied assumption that the demand won't be there once the I-95/PA Turnpike Connection is completed?

Alps

Quote from: jemacedo9 on August 19, 2016, 02:19:25 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 19, 2016, 01:47:13 PM
The next area that's becoming a chokepoint is around Interchange 4, where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes per direction.  During rush hours, especially in the afternoon, southbound traffic between interchanges 4 and 3 is starting to experience semi-regular congestion.  While we have I-295 parallel to the NJ Turnpike down here, that highway will experience regular 10 mile backups, and people bail from 295 onto the Turnpike.

Are there plans to widen the southernmost section to 3 lanes each?  Or is there an implied assumption that the demand won't be there once the I-95/PA Turnpike Connection is completed?
a) Both of the above are somewhat true.
b) The congestion south of 2 is due to the Delaware Memorial Bridge and the narrowing in DE to get onto I-95 and US 13 (specific problem: the I-95 weave to DE 1). No amount of widening will change that.

jeffandnicole

I think going to 3 lanes between 3 & 4 should be done, due to the growing commuting traffic in the area. Between 2 & 3 I believe is actually the lightest section of the turnpike. Between 1 & 2 is actually a little busier, but expansion isn't really warranted on a normal traffic volume basis.. That said, it would be nice to have 3 lanes south of the southern most Service Area to the toll plaza just to assist with motorists getting in the correct lane.

bzakharin

Quote from: jemacedo9 on August 19, 2016, 02:19:25 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 19, 2016, 01:47:13 PM
The next area that's becoming a chokepoint is around Interchange 4, where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes per direction.  During rush hours, especially in the afternoon, southbound traffic between interchanges 4 and 3 is starting to experience semi-regular congestion.  While we have I-295 parallel to the NJ Turnpike down here, that highway will experience regular 10 mile backups, and people bail from 295 onto the Turnpike.

Are there plans to widen the southernmost section to 3 lanes each?  Or is there an implied assumption that the demand won't be there once the I-95/PA Turnpike Connection is completed?
I think if the problem is between exits 4 and 3, the PA Turnpike interchange won't help much. Nobody would take that interchange to I-95 through Philly to go to Delaware or points South. I figure it will mostly serve traffic headed to Philly or points in between on I-95.

dgolub

Quote from: bzakharin on August 21, 2016, 09:41:36 AM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on August 19, 2016, 02:19:25 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 19, 2016, 01:47:13 PM
The next area that's becoming a chokepoint is around Interchange 4, where it goes from 3 lanes to 2 lanes per direction.  During rush hours, especially in the afternoon, southbound traffic between interchanges 4 and 3 is starting to experience semi-regular congestion.  While we have I-295 parallel to the NJ Turnpike down here, that highway will experience regular 10 mile backups, and people bail from 295 onto the Turnpike.

Are there plans to widen the southernmost section to 3 lanes each?  Or is there an implied assumption that the demand won't be there once the I-95/PA Turnpike Connection is completed?
I think if the problem is between exits 4 and 3, the PA Turnpike interchange won't help much. Nobody would take that interchange to I-95 through Philly to go to Delaware or points South. I figure it will mostly serve traffic headed to Philly or points in between on I-95.

I wouldn't assume that.  People who don't know where they're going may very well just follow I-95 straight down.

SignBridge

I agree with Dave. Half of the motoring public has no clue and many traveling between NYC and Washington may well just blindly follow I-95 all the way thru Philadelphia and not even know the difference.

As an example, recently I was talking to a lady who lives in the Langhorne, Pa. area who drives to NYC on the NJT once in a while. And when I mentioned to her how great it is that the NJT finally has the widened dual roadways all the way down to the Penn. Tpk, she had no idea what I was talking about. So there you are.

bzakharin

Sure, there will be people like that, but not enough to change the volume on the Turnpike. And ask yourself, will a person like that start taking a different route because there is a new I-95 shield on Exit 6? Anyone who takes the Turnpike even semi-regularly probably knows where they get on/off it (even if they think it goes all the way to the Delaware Memorial Bridge. I noticed a sign in Carneys Point yesterday that says "TURNPIKE SOUTH Use Del. Memorial Bridge"). I would bet that this will actually go the other way, and some people who might benefit from the interchange will not use it, just because they've always used Exit 4 or whatever.

And anyway, whatever happened to "everybody blindly follows their GPS"? Once the maps get updated, the GPS people will just follow the right route because their GPS tells them to.

storm2k

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 20, 2016, 12:40:52 AM
I think going to 3 lanes between 3 & 4 should be done, due to the growing commuting traffic in the area. Between 2 & 3 I believe is actually the lightest section of the turnpike. Between 1 & 2 is actually a little busier, but expansion isn't really warranted on a normal traffic volume basis.. That said, it would be nice to have 3 lanes south of the southern most Service Area to the toll plaza just to assist with motorists getting in the correct lane.

I have a feeling that once the 295/76/42 project is done (if we ever get there...), a lot of the traffic we see that in that area will improve. at least i think that's the idea.

jeffandnicole

I look at it this way:  There's about 6 ways for traffic to travel north and south between Delaware & North Jersey:

They look at paper maps and figure out the best route.
They use GPS.
They use handwritten notes or directions they printed out beforehand.
They use the BGS, using the destinations and/or route numbers.
They feel they'll save money by jumping over to PA.
They go by memory. 

Those using paper maps are probably getting lost if they're assuming they can get from the PA Turnpike to 95 directly.  These people will continue to go that way, but at least they'll have the direct connection.

Those using handwritten notes and directions printed out beforehand may change, based on what their source is telling them.  So there may be a shift here, especially those driving south and destined for Philadelphia or other points in PA.  For those continuing south into Delaware, the NJ Turnpike thru South Jersey is generally the faster/shorter way to go.

Those relying on the signage will have the biggest impact on traffic flow.  They will follow signs for 95 regardless.  Or, they know Philly is the next major city they'll come to, and when they see that on the signs, they'll follow that.  This is also the group that will be making those last second changes from the Turnpike mainline to the Exit 6 ramp, because they'll catch it at the last second.

Those that think they're saving money by exiting at Exit 6 will also be game changers.  When it's said and done, they'll save less than $2 in tolls, and probably lose it in additional mileage and congestion in Philly.

GPS and Online Maps may or may not change. Those have the ability to figure out the drive based on traffic, especially via GPS.
They just go based on what they're told to do.  Likewise, there may be a shift here, especially those driving south and destined for Philadelphia or other points in PA.

The going-by-memory people will never change, or will slowly change.  Even if they can save 15 minutes or miles by going another direction, if they've always gone a certain way, they'll continue to go that way.

So, that's my rundown.  While the majority of traffic has done the route before, many, many travelers won't remember the route they took.  They rely on directions every year, especially if they only take the route once a year.  And there's a lot of people that have never driven the route before, so everything will be new to them anyway.  And while we often focus on thru traffic, PA bound traffic will probably have the biggest impact.  Moneywise, it may actually be more expensive.  Time-wise though, they'll probably save time by using the direct 95 routing...depending on Philly congestion on 95.

I also focus mainly on those traveling South.  For those going North, I think most of them will use the current routing thru Delaware into NJ, unless Delaware changes their signage (which I don't think they will).

Quote from: storm2k on August 22, 2016, 10:32:39 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 20, 2016, 12:40:52 AM
I think going to 3 lanes between 3 & 4 should be done, due to the growing commuting traffic in the area. Between 2 & 3 I believe is actually the lightest section of the turnpike. Between 1 & 2 is actually a little busier, but expansion isn't really warranted on a normal traffic volume basis.. That said, it would be nice to have 3 lanes south of the southern most Service Area to the toll plaza just to assist with motorists getting in the correct lane.

I have a feeling that once the 295/76/42 project is done (if we ever get there...), a lot of the traffic we see that in that area will improve. at least i think that's the idea.

I hope so...at least for the afternoon rush hour.  The morning rush doesn't have much of an impact on the Turnpike down that way.


storm2k

a couple of notes about signing:

-new signs up at exit 10 (replacing these signs). no mention of edison (that's on a secondary sign). there's a north banner over both 287 and 440, since they both are signed as north at their starting points. would have liked to see morristown as 287's control city since that's what njdot uses (morristown and mahwah).

-Driving home from KOP yesterday, noticed on the Pearl Harbor extension that they're going to replace the signs for the 130 exit (is it technically still 6A since they only have barrier tolls there and it's outside the ticket system?). Right now they are pouring the foundations for new structures. Will be interesting if they end up with MUTCD signage there. Signs were not replaced as part of the dual-dual construction.

-There is still a old fashioned speed limit and neon VMS on the PA side of the Delaware River Bridge. They don't work anymore, but surprised that they haven't been removed.

bzakharin

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 22, 2016, 11:20:31 AM
I look at it this way:  There's about 6 ways for traffic to travel north and south between Delaware & North Jersey:
That's a nice write-up. However,
Quote
They use the BGS, using the destinations and/or route numbers.
This one seems a bit muddled to me. Nobody does this exclusively because signage is not specific enough to help someone who otherwise has no idea where he's going. For example, if you're going to Philadelphia via I-95, it will not begin to be mentioned on BGS's until Delaware going north and (currently, pre-interchange) Exit 4 on the Turnpike going south. The only exception to this might be "ooh, here's I-95. I know my city is also on I-95, so I'll go this way." But that's pretty limited. How do you know you'll ever cross I-95 unless you're already on it from the beginning?

Also,
Quote
Or, they know Philly is the next major city they'll come to
How will they know this? Not all roads go through all major cities that are approximately along the route. Will these people take I-195 too because Trenton should be on the way? Also, if the choice is between Philly and Wilmington, won't they know that Wilmington is also along the route, and is in fact further away, thus bypassing Philadelphia?

So, usually the BGS's will only be used in combination with one of the other ways you mentioned. If they're using paper maps, printed directions, or going by memory, they might take I-95 either because they'll get confused and think they are at a point where they should be getting onto I-95 (instead of in Delaware) or because they will think they discovered a new shortcut they have overlooked before.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: bzakharin on August 22, 2016, 01:29:50 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 22, 2016, 11:20:31 AM
I look at it this way:  There's about 6 ways for traffic to travel north and south between Delaware & North Jersey:
That's a nice write-up. However,
Quote
They use the BGS, using the destinations and/or route numbers.
This one seems a bit muddled to me. Nobody does this exclusively because signage is not specific enough to help someone who otherwise has no idea where he's going. For example, if you're going to Philadelphia via I-95, it will not begin to be mentioned on BGS's until Delaware going north and (currently, pre-interchange) Exit 4 on the Turnpike going south. The only exception to this might be "ooh, here's I-95. I know my city is also on I-95, so I'll go this way." But that's pretty limited. How do you know you'll ever cross I-95 unless you're already on it from the beginning?

Also,
Quote
Or, they know Philly is the next major city they'll come to
How will they know this? Not all roads go through all major cities that are approximately along the route. Will these people take I-195 too because Trenton should be on the way? Also, if the choice is between Philly and Wilmington, won't they know that Wilmington is also along the route, and is in fact further away, thus bypassing Philadelphia?

So, usually the BGS's will only be used in combination with one of the other ways you mentioned. If they're using paper maps, printed directions, or going by memory, they might take I-95 either because they'll get confused and think they are at a point where they should be getting onto I-95 (instead of in Delaware) or because they will think they discovered a new shortcut they have overlooked before.

Speaking from experience during my days at Interchange 1 on the NJ Turnpike, there were a few (not many) that got to my toll booth going south and asked how much further to Philadelphia.  I told them they passed the exits 30 minutes ago...both Interchange 4 and 3 were signed for Philadelphia (at the time).  They thought they were still on I-95, and figured they would be passing thru the city on the way.

Thus, this says that some people do know what the next city is that they are looking for, and they are looking for those route number trailblazers on the BGSs.  Only recently has the Turnpike used actual control cities on the pullthrough signage, so they didn't have that to assist them in the past either.  As far as missing 'Philadelphia' on the signs for Exits 4 and 3, it goes back to the traveler expecting the city to come into view, and since those exits would seemingly have nothing to do with Philadelphia, they ignored them.

While one would thing people wouldn't rely solely on BGSs and other related signage, there's a number of people that do!

roadman65

Jeff I get people all the time looking confirming that they are heading for I-4 when heading east on FL 528.  As you probably already know I-4 and FL 528 intersect at the west terminus of the toll road.  Its a common thing nowadays as no one is really comprehending what its written on road signs anymore.

I had one guy who asked me if he was heading to I-4, because his GPS told him was sending him the way he was going.  The funny thing is, again, it was the wrong way, but the guy said to me "oh the GPS must know a better way home, as I am heading there."  This man took off trusting the GPS knows a better way then he expected and did not even ask me how to turn around.

People are even getting to a point where they cannot even remember simple directions especially when I tell them how to u turn through a simple interchange.  "Take 3 lefts at the end of the Exit 8 ramp and you will head back on to this highway going the other way" I will tell them, and then they make me verify that statement over and over again.  Even diamond interchanges people need assistance to navigate a simple u turn theses days as well.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

bzakharin

Quote from: roadman65 on August 23, 2016, 10:30:55 AM
People are even getting to a point where they cannot even remember simple directions especially when I tell them how to u turn through a simple interchange.  "Take 3 lefts at the end of the Exit 8 ramp and you will head back on to this highway going the other way" I will tell them, and then they make me verify that statement over and over again.  Even diamond interchanges people need assistance to navigate a simple u turn theses days as well.
I think NJ drivers are better at U-turns what with all the jughandles

roadman65

Quote from: bzakharin on August 23, 2016, 10:39:29 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 23, 2016, 10:30:55 AM
People are even getting to a point where they cannot even remember simple directions especially when I tell them how to u turn through a simple interchange.  "Take 3 lefts at the end of the Exit 8 ramp and you will head back on to this highway going the other way" I will tell them, and then they make me verify that statement over and over again.  Even diamond interchanges people need assistance to navigate a simple u turn theses days as well.
I think NJ drivers are better at U-turns what with all the jughandles
Yes and most drivers are not from New Jersey that I deal with. :bigass:
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

I had them people too.  You know the hardest thing to tell them?  How to get back to I-95 when going South at Interchange 1.

Them: "How do I get to I-95?"
Me: "Go Straight 6 Miles"
Them: "Which side, left or right"
Me: "Straight"

Blow them away. 

After I saw this happen at Interchange 3, I never said keep left again. After you go thru the toll plaza, you can keep left for 168 South (to Atlantic City), or keep right for 168 North. 

Them: "Which way to Atlantic City?"
Me: "Keep Left"

What do they do?  They go *thru* the cones into the opposing direction of traffic, all the way to the left on-ramp going the opposite direction!  Certainly no signage or anything telling them to go the wrong way!  Thankfully it was late and very little traffic was on the road.  After that, "Go Straight" was my answer.



roadman65

Its scary how people do not use common sense anymore!   Also what are they teaching the next generation or their children is something I do not want to think about.  Plus the cliques that form which is why today morals are different in society as morals are only as good as the group that makes them during their gossip talks.

I had a guy yesterday from New York, go into the express Sunpass lanes, figure out he was there, stopped his car, hopped over a Jersey barrier, and walked the roadway in traffic just to pay the toll that he should have been paying in the manual lanes if he had been a careful driver.  He risked his life to pay a two dollar and some change toll.    Of course we have no means to process the tolls if he did pay it, so he did all that for nothing.  Of course he used the excuse "I am from New York, so I do not know how your tolls work."  That is the norm now, as nobody even realizes that we have guide signs that help motorists, like you said about I-95 south from Exit 1 on the NJT.  Its clearly marked and on large overhead panels.

I do not know if all this is ignorance or paranoia, but its really weird.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

Quote from: roadman65 on August 23, 2016, 02:58:25 PM
Its scary how people do not use common sense anymore!   Also what are they teaching the next generation or their children is something I do not want to think about.

I worked the tolls about 15 years ago.  That practically is the previous generation.  And they're just passing that lack-of-knowhow down to today's generation of drivers!

jeffandnicole

A reporter from nj.com (Star Ledger, etc) wrote up a report on all the Service Areas on the NJ Turnpike and Garden State Parkway, ranking them from worst to first (in his opinion, of course).  http://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/08/the_best_-_and_worst_-_turnpike_parkway_service_pl.html#incart_river_home_pop

The reporter tends to have some interesting articles like this.  He does a decent job of including the entire state in his reporting.

Alps

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 24, 2016, 12:51:58 PM
A reporter from nj.com (Star Ledger, etc) wrote up a report on all the Service Areas on the NJ Turnpike and Garden State Parkway, ranking them from worst to first (in his opinion, of course).  http://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/08/the_best_-_and_worst_-_turnpike_parkway_service_pl.html#incart_river_home_pop

The reporter tends to have some interesting articles like this.  He does a decent job of including the entire state in his reporting.
He failed to mention that Cheesequake and Atlantic, both in the top 10, have free access to the outside world. (Cheesequake's is now signed for official vehicles only - but also bus parking - and then signs inside direct you to continue for park & ride - so just play dumb.)

NJRoadfan

The Atlantic City service area no longer has access to Jimmie Leeds Rd. due to the NJSP Barracks that were constructed there. The good news is there is now a proper Exit 41 interchange off of the highway..... with no toll. The Cheesequake "bus parking" entrance was always signed for official use only.



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