Windows 8(.1)

[english si]

I gather Windows 8 has lots of behind-the-scenes stuff that really improves over Windows 7, but that the interface and apps are awful, ditto some the controls designed to stop you installing Linux.

Are Microsoft and Google (cf New Maps) in need of some HCI experts? or is that the HCI experts are held captive by bad philosophies of interface design?

[Roadsguy]

In the short time that I used a Windows 8 machine, I installed Classic Shell (Start Menu) and UxStyle (custom themes, in this case Aero). With the Start Menu back, you can effectively forget about the Metro interface, and with the Aero theme, it stops looking like an NES game with smoothness filters applied. That, combined with some other built-in options, made it feel a lot more like 7 to the point where I was asked how I got 7 on that computer.

[Scott5114]

I think the HCI experts are held captive by bad management, who want to chase some grandiose and overambitious vision of the software that ticks all these boxes that they think their customers need ticked, while failing to realize that the features they want to add don't work well together, resulting in an unholy mess with no cohesive overall user-interface principles. Meanwhile, the customers are irritated by the fact that management's grand vision doesn't match up with their expectations or needs.

[bugo]

My question is: does Microsoft do any testing or focus groups before they unleash products on the unsuspecting public? If they do, they are very bad at selecting representative testers.

Microsoft doesn't care.  They know they will sell millions of copies of Windows no matter how bad it is.  If they really cared, they wouldn't change things willy nilly every time they come out with a new release.  They should have stuck with the Windows 95 methods to do certain things instead of changing it in every new OS.

[vdeane]

I gather Windows 8 has lots of behind-the-scenes stuff that really improves over Windows 7, but that the interface and apps are awful, ditto some the controls designed to stop you installing Linux.

Are Microsoft and Google (cf New Maps) in need of some HCI experts? or is that the HCI experts are held captive by bad philosophies of interface design?

They're held captive by iPad envy.

[Alps]

I notice no operative difference between 7 and 8, except the lack of start menu. I killed off the app screen and just work from desktop.

[SSOWorld]

I notice no operative difference between 7 and 8, except the lack of start menu. I killed off the app screen and just work from desktop.

Same.  I do use 8.1's winX menu to shut down the computer and access the control panel, and I have the metro menu set up to show all programs by default and boot to the desktop by default.

[SidS1045]

Microsoft doesn't care.  They know they will sell millions of copies of Windows no matter how bad it is.  If they really cared, they wouldn't change things willy nilly every time they come out with a new release.  They should have stuck with the Windows 95 methods to do certain things instead of changing it in every new OS.

Not this time.  Win8 sales are, as the British would say, in the crapper.  It took Win8 longer to reach 10% market penetration than any previous version of Windows, including ME and Vista.

There was just simply no excuse whatsoever for changing the UI which has been essentially the same since Windows 95.  Virtually everyone knew how to operate Windows...until Win8 came along.  As an IT manager serving about 200 or so users, Win8 will NEVER get anywhere near my offices.  The last thing in the word I need is endless unnecessary questions about the basics of using Windows which my people now know perfectly well.

The scuttlebutt in the industry is: Win8 has been such a spectacular failure that Win9 will come in different versions with different UI's, including one for enterprise use with a standard desktop UI similar to Win7...IOW, what they should have done with Win8 in the first place.

[Scott5114]

The sad thing is that the whole debacle could have been prevented by just including both UIs and letting the user switch to whichever one they preferred. I doubt there would have been much of a backlash if there was simple "here's how to get the old start menu back" procedure to follow.

Lack of configurability seems to be a problem dogging Win8...I have had to edit the Registry multiple times for things that are a simple checkbox click in KDE. (Case in point: I shouldn't have to dig in the Registry just to have Num Lock on by default.)

[mjb2002]

I love the metro apps on Windows 8 and 8.1.  Facebook and Flipboard are not available on Windows 8, but the rest of the main apps I use are (Maps, Twitter, People, Yahoo! Mail, Amazon, eBay, Skype, Onedrive (then called Skydrive), Foursquare, Notepad Classic, Internet Explorer 10/11, Windows Phone, Calculator squared, Unit Converter, Accuweather, TuneIn, Slacker Radio, NASCAR Mobile, Netflix, The CW, Microsoft Solitaire Collection, DailyMotion, UNO and Translator).

On the first day it was available, I upgraded to 8.1 for free, instantly saved the backup of the OS on flash, and then downloaded the FB and Flipboard apps.  All of my devices are now Windows – desktop/laptop, tablet and mobile phone.

[vdeane]

Personally I don't understand apps and I don't think I ever will.  Why not use use the web browser?  The only time I use an app is when I stream videos from Amazon on my Smart TV.  Even Colbert is streamed to my TV from my Chromebook via an HDMI cable (because Hulu doesn't have a free app).

[sammi]

Personally I don't understand apps and I don't think I ever will. Why not use use the web browser?

Applications are applications. The only difference between desktop applications and "Metro" applications (and every other type of application) is that they implement different user interfaces. You use apps for the convenience; e.g., I don't need to go to the WolframAlpha website to find a certain integral if I can just open the WolframAlpha extension to get it faster.

[vdeane]

To me, "app" and "application" are different.  App implies something like Angry Birds.  Application implies something more sophisticated, like Microsoft Word.

[sammi]

To me, "app" and "application" are different.

That doesn't make sense. "App" is short for "application". It just happens to have been popularized by mobile application distribution services (e.g. iOS App Store) to the point that most people just take the term "app" to mean "mobile application". Apple and Microsoft have recently taken to calling their desktop applications "apps" as well (i.e. "Mac app", "(Windows) desktop app").

[vdeane]

To me, "app" and "application" are different.

It just happens to have been popularized by mobile application distribution services (e.g. iOS App Store) to the point that most people just take the term "app" to mean "mobile application".

And that's why I consider them different.  NOBODY used the term "app" until Apple created the App Store for iOS.  I've only heard of reporters using app for desktop applications (and I don't hold the tech press in high regards anyways).  Mobile apps are very dumbed down compared to desktop applications that I just find it hard to take them seriously.

Yeah, I'm a computing elitist.

[NE2]

And that's why I consider them different.  NOBODY used the term "app" until Apple created the App Store for iOS.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/killer%20app

[SidS1045]

An article in today's Boston Globe's Business section about the end of Windows XP underlines the problem Windows 8 is having gaining acceptability.  According to a table in the article, with stats provided by NetMarketShare, this is the current breakdown of the market share of each OS:

Windows 7 (released in 2009): 47.3%
Windows XP (2001):  29.5%
Windows 8 (2012):  10.7%
Mac OS X (all versions):  7.7%
Windows Vista (2006):  3.3%
Linux:  1.5%

[Dr Frankenstein]

The main issue I'm having with Metro apps is that many UI designers seem to have stuck to the incorrect assumption that ease of use comes with removing features or making them really hard to access. Plus, just a couple of years ago, straying too far away from a standardized, common set of UI widgets was frowned upon very much. Now, the same thing seems to be the "cool" thing to do, resulting in UIs that are pretty and "quick," but oh so f'ing counter-intuitive. (Case in point: the mobile version of Google Maps)

[Scott5114]

The main issue I'm having with Metro apps is that many UI designers seem to have stuck to the incorrect assumption that ease of use comes with removing features or making them really hard to access. Plus, just a couple of years ago, straying too far away from a standardized, common set of UI widgets was frowned upon very much. Now, the same thing seems to be the "cool" thing to do, resulting in UIs that are pretty and "quick," but oh so f'ing counter-intuitive. (Case in point: the mobile version of Google Maps)

Agreed. The problem I have with Windows 8.1 is very much the same as I have with the free iPad I was given and barely use–it seems dead-set on me doing things its way, rather than letting me do things my way. In Windows 8.1, you have to edit the Registry just to have Num Lock on by default. On Linux, it's a check box under System Settings.

[Stratuscaster]

On my systems it's a setting in the BIOS, independent of the OS.

[SteveG1988]

I tried windows 8.1, it's okay at best, i do not like the changes made to the color scheme for the windows desktop, and i did use it with a start menu program. My phone runs windows phone 8 (no .1 avail yet, should be announced in April) and i am okay with the Metro (microsoft calls it Modern now, due to a lawsuit) UI on it. For those curious as to what it is, Nokia Lumia 810. I love the darn phone, 8mp camera, 1080p video, front camera. But when it comes to windows for the desktop, i may wait to see what microsoft pulls out of the bag next month. Might be windows 9 which would either be a free upgrade (we can wish, it may happen since apple is going that route) to 8.1 since it is only two years old. I don't see that happening, what i do see happening is a low cost upgrade to 8.x users, and a regular priced one for windows 7 users. If windows 9 comes out and it seems to be worth it, I may upgrade to it on at least one system in my house. Everything runs windows 7 x64 here.

[Scott5114]

That reminds me–I love the brokenness of allowing you to change the color of the window title bar, but not the color of the text, which is always black. No dark colors for you!

[jeffandnicole]

An article in today's Boston Globe's Business section about the end of Windows XP underlines the problem Windows 8 is having gaining acceptability.  According to a table in the article, with stats provided by NetMarketShare, this is the current breakdown of the market share of each OS:

Windows 7 (released in 2009): 47.3%
Windows XP (2001):  29.5%
Windows 8 (2012):  10.7%
Mac OS X (all versions):  7.7%
Windows Vista (2006):  3.3%
Linux:  1.5%

I don't have any specific stats, but I would imagine a majority of computers aren't bought by individuals, but by companies.  When I talked with my IT people about Windows 8, they said it's not really a platform businesses find useful. 

Thus, even if every individual were to transfer to the Windows 8 platform, it may not even hit 50%.

[vdeane]

That reminds me–I love the brokenness of allowing you to change the color of the window title bar, but not the color of the text, which is always black. No dark colors for you!

So change the window title bar of the Microsoft computers to black.

[stormwatch7721]

I got a new windows 8.1 laptop. The only problem is the weather part which it's showing incorrect temperatures.