Is the car culture dying?

[Max Rockatansky]

You can't convince me that everyone was hot for V8s even at the height of the muscle-car era. There were tons of V6 and slant-6 engines out there for those who weren't wealthy nor cared about such things. Not everyone drove the biggest nor fastest car back then, not everyone plumped for the top-flight model trim, and certainly not everyone ordered the high-performance package. It's nostalgia which drives that myth...few remember the unimpressive and average models.

Prior to the fall of 1973, when gas prices skyrocketed and long gas lines (& even rationing) formed; the best-selling cars from just about every domestic make in the so-called Big-Three were indeed the full-size (then called standard-size) car.  Such ranged from bare-bones, 6-banger-powered (later succeeded w/small V8s) Ford Customs, Chevy Biscaynes/BelAirs & Plymouth Furys to the near-luxury, V8-powered Mercury Marquis', Buick LeSabres & Electra 225s and Chrysler New Yorkers.

Even during the 60s; while Ford Mustang was getting all the fanfare & pomp (it would reach its peak sales year circa 1966), its standard-size models (Custom/Galaxie 500/LTD/XL) was still Ford's overall best seller (over 600k '66 Mustangs vs. just over a million '66 full-size Fords).

Long story short, while the domestic (US) auto market indeed diversified during the 60s (going from offering one or two vehicle types/sizes to 6 or 7 within a decade); the overall market (sales figures) still favored/preferred large, V8 powered cars... until October of '73.  Such a change hit Chrysler the hardest since it had just launched its newly-revamped full-sizes (for '74) a few weeks earlier.

While I agree with you that even then, not everybody wanted a big and/or powerful car w/a V8; a sizable chunk of the car-buying masses indeed did and the sales figures are the proof of such.

Back when various outputs and displacements were available...many of them were also low-output V8s, right?

Straying from the output part a bit, it's ironic that there's all sorts of pretty good cars and light trucks out there today; and yet kind of ironic that it's supposedly "dying". I think the writer is caught bemoaning the far-off good old days which are vastly different than today. Yeah, there's going to be a time when driverless cars and other forms of transportation take over the automobile. It's a bit too simplistic to raise a theoretical END banner halfway through the automobile's journey with so much more distance to be covered in the future.

Let's not forget that we're talking pre-1973 ratings of horsepower in gross.  Those V8s, low or high output were running with probably 10-20% less power than were put out publicly until the switch to net.  Basically you had a lot of variations of displacement with V8s back in the 50s, 60s and early 60s simply due to the fact that they were really the only thing that produced enough power to even adequately power the car.  It's funny to think how people have almost completely forgotten about engines like the 307 Chevy Small block or 318 Chrysler LA Block.  Those variations of small displacement V8s largely morphed into the I4s and V6s that you see today.  So no, the tarted up 454 LS6 Chevelle may not have been the most common trim in the line, but those muscle cars were sure a lot more approachable price wise than cars are today.  If you pace inflation with some top trim levels in a lot of 1960s cars it's hard to get a ton of examples that couldn't be had with a top end engine for more than a modern 30k.

But that's not to say the ultimate truth about performance cars....almost anything above a V6 midsize sedan will dust a traditional muscle car.  You have so many things going for modern cars like; higher output by displacement, better electronic fuel management, WORLDS better transmissions and infinitely better tires.  Basically unless you had a full on racing engine like a 426 Hemi, Boss 429 or 427 L88 you aren't going to keep up with a modern performance car in a straight line....NOT A CHANCE in hell in the turns.  That's not even touching on things like safety standards, suspension and modern creature comforts.  Even the Asian and European Automakers have gotten into the performance game the last 25 years...it will be interesting to see how people view this era of cars three to five decades from now.  Not having that low point of entry price wise is going to hurt growing a crowd for about anything...cars have been going through this since the 70s.  Lack of ease of access in terms of working on the cars hasn't helped much either.

Just because there are less young drivers doesn't mean that the cars are going to go away anytime soon. There are plenty of older drivers who'd be willing to buy these cars.

As in SO MANY things that deal with "millenials don't do this or that" issues, YES, YES, YES.

Marketers are obsessed with 25 to 50 or similar.  Yes, you can fish that pond with everybody else.  It has the most fish.  Or you can find a niche and compete with a lot less fishermen.

Remember Del Webb was born dirt poor and died a billionaire.  Selling home to retirees.

Something I have never understood about marketing is why do so many people target crowds with no money with the expectation that they will be life long customers?  It goes back to the example I gave about Scion...those were supposed to be entry level cars meant to appeal to youthful car buyers but ended up being the bargain basement bin for people who viewed their vehicle as a disposable appliance.  So why not just focus on making a product that has some desirability for everyone?  I kind of look back at something like the tri-five Chevy...that is the one car that I can think of off the top of my head that really resonated with all car buyers.  It was a good looking, inexpensive car that preformed well....who really wouldn't want something like that?  The 64 Mustang is another example of that approach working...but for some reason there just aren't many examples of that in the post emissions era.  Basically I look at something like the 5th Generation Camaro and how it was considered such a sales success while the 6th generation is struggling so much despite being a way better car in every performance measure.  The 6th generation Camaro went up market and expected sales to stay the same while the Mustang stayed at the same entry level price coupled with the Challenger coming down in price. 

Maybe the better question is how youths (I still consider myself young at 27) view cars from an emotional/identity standpoint. I personally view it as merely a major appliance, frankly not much different than a laundry machine. I couldn't care less about its diagnostics or performance (RPMs, torque, horsepower, etc) beyond its ability to drive me to work, the store, and other locations. In the same vein, I really don't care about the performance of my laundry machines beyond their ability to wash and dry my clothes.

More to the point, I have no emotional affinity to my car.

When I hear people talk about "Car Culture" I imagine young guys hacking around on their cars in a garage and racing on rural roads. In that regard, they confer a higher status to the car than merely an appliance (as I do), but rather a reflection of their own image.

I agree with this. I enjoy driving, but I don't care too much about the car itself (as long as it works!)

You're hitting on the reason I never buy a used car...most people do indeed view their vehicle as an appliance...nothing more.  Not that we're talking about anything new...it's just more pervasive with unfriendly levels of technology in modern cars compared to the relative ease of working a non-computer controlled vehicle.  Cars are also built to infinitely higher standards, require far less maintenance and can survive a lot more abuse from their owners...

It's interesting....performance really is what you make of it.  Even an daily driver...at least for me has a measure of performance in regards to fuel economy and efficiency.  People think it's weird when they see me out updating the maintenance log in my Sonic or waxing it on a three month schedule just as I would on my Challenger.  Fact is...yes it's an appliance but it's an appliance that I want to actually work the best way it can and despite being something I'll get rid of 150-200k....I want to be able to get the max out of and maybe get a little ROI on the back end.  It just seemed that 30 years ago and back that there was more at-large attention to detail...but then again there really had to be with poor build qualities.  One thing that drives me up the wall though...and I'll never get over it is people never taking care of their paint...that's a truly lost art.

[Duke87]

Are there less and less people working on their cars? Mostly, yes. Cars can be more complex to work on, and anything requiring computer or software updates/reflashing needs a trip to the dealership, in a lot of cases.

Cars are not only more complex due to computers, they are in many cases more complex physically than they once were, or built in a way that makes working on them at home problematic due to inaccessible designs.

For example, Nissan sedans from the early 2000s had a rather annoying design feature where the oil filter was on the back of the engine and not near the bottom. Getting that thing off without a pit under the car to stand in was damn near impossible, you couldn't reach it and get a good grip on it. Newer models have, fortunately, put the filter in a much more easily accessible spot.

Then you have cars like the Focus, which, to increase fuel economy, is now built with very low ground clearance and a solid plate covering the underside of the car to prevent components from getting scraped up when it inevitably bottoms out. Lovely for the stated goals, but again: good luck changing your own oil or doing anything yourself that requires getting under the car. You need to get it nice and high off the ground in order to even crawl under it, and then you have to get that damned plate off before you can do anything else (and get it back on when you're done!).


Of course, it is also true that there is social change at work here. Manufacturing isn't as big of a thing in the US as it once was. Fewer people have regular experience working with their hands on machinery these days; you also have people who uninterested in learning because they would rather learn how to program or otherwise work with computers - arguably a much more valuable skill in this day and age.

This is, interestingly, also related to a shift in car culture amongst the younger crowd - who are not impressed by how much horsepower a car has or how fast it can go from 0-60, but are absolutely concerned with how many features the built in electronics have because they want to plug their smartphones in and have their car play their music, answer their phone calls, read their texts out loud to them as they're driving and send dictated responses, etc.

[Max Rockatansky]

Are there less and less people working on their cars? Mostly, yes. Cars can be more complex to work on, and anything requiring computer or software updates/reflashing needs a trip to the dealership, in a lot of cases.

Cars are not only more complex due to computers, they are in many cases more complex physically than they once were, or built in a way that makes working on them at home problematic due to inaccessible designs.

For example, Nissan sedans from the early 2000s had a rather annoying design feature where the oil filter was on the back of the engine and not near the bottom. Getting that thing off without a pit under the car to stand in was damn near impossible, you couldn't reach it and get a good grip on it. Newer models have, fortunately, put the filter in a much more easily accessible spot.

Then you have cars like the Focus, which, to increase fuel economy, is now built with very low ground clearance and a solid plate covering the underside of the car to prevent components from getting scraped up when it inevitably bottoms out. Lovely for the stated goals, but again: good luck changing your own oil or doing anything yourself that requires getting under the car. You need to get it nice and high off the ground in order to even crawl under it, and then you have to get that damned plate off before you can do anything else (and get it back on when you're done!).


Of course, it is also true that there is social change at work here. Manufacturing isn't as big of a thing in the US as it once was. Fewer people have regular experience working with their hands on machinery these days; you also have people who uninterested in learning because they would rather learn how to program or otherwise work with computers - arguably a much more valuable skill in this day and age.

This is, interestingly, also related to a shift in car culture amongst the younger crowd - who are not impressed by how much horsepower a car has or how fast it can go from 0-60, but are absolutely concerned with how many features the built in electronics have because they want to plug their smartphones in and have their car play their music, answer their phone calls, read their texts out loud to them as they're driving and send dictated responses, etc.

Some of the 90s cars were great examples of that.  I remember how much unapproachable having to take the engine out the bottom of a car on a lift made things, the 4th Generation F-body comes to mind.  But you also hit on a huge difference in shift in culture just in general from blue collar to white collar.  All those mechanical skills across the board have dropped a lot of the manufacturing capacity moved out of the country due to high labor costs and what remains doesn't require as much skilled labor force.  They don't call cities in the midwest the rust belt for nothing....especially Detroit which is a fantastic example about not putting all eggs in one basket with an industry.

You know...you're right and the car sales people have gotten pretty pushy with trying to get you interested in those features.  I hit 40 last year, so I think when I walk into a dealership that people seem to think that I'm up on the latest and greatest with communications or media.  Generally I've skipped out on infotainment features when they were individual options but now they have generally rolled into trim levels instead.  About the only think that I really use at the end of the day is maybe the blue tooth on my phone since I'm fairly certain it's required by law here.  Aside from that I stick with the AUX jack and my bargain bin SanDisc MP3 player...just shows that I'm getting old.

[GCrites]

I've noticed something  about a lot of Millennials as an extra-late X'er that's been into cars and racing for over 20 years. They'll watch a lot of car videos on the internet, hang out on Jalopnik and its sister sites, play Forza/Gran Turismo/NFS, talk about Ken Block but won't buy a cool/fun car even if they can afford it. They still drive some boring stock Civic/2000s pickup truck/hand-me-down-from-grandma 2000s Impala/Scion or not even own a car and take transit or walk. So they have knowledge about various car models but don't participate.

[SignGeek101]

Despite my interest in signs and road projects, I've never had an interest in cars or buying cars. It's partly because I don't like driving much. I don't find it relaxing or enjoyable like most here do.

Maybe the better question is how youths (I still consider myself young at 27) view cars from an emotional/identity standpoint. I personally view it as merely a major appliance, frankly not much different than a laundry machine. I couldn't care less about its diagnostics or performance (RPMs, torque, horsepower, etc) beyond its ability to drive me to work, the store, and other locations. In the same vein, I really don't care about the performance of my laundry machines beyond their ability to wash and dry my clothes.

More to the point, I have no emotional affinity to my car.

When I hear people talk about "Car Culture" I imagine young guys hacking around on their cars in a garage and racing on rural roads. In that regard, they confer a higher status to the car than merely an appliance (as I do), but rather a reflection of their own image.

I agree with this. I enjoy driving, but I don't care too much about the car itself (as long as it works!)

Resonates with me.

[formulanone]

I've noticed something  about a lot of Millennials as an extra-late X'er that's been into cars and racing for over 20 years. They'll watch a lot of car videos on the internet, hang out on Jalopnik and its sister sites, play Forza/Gran Turismo/NFS, talk about Ken Block but won't buy a cool/fun car even if they can afford it. They still drive some boring stock Civic/2000s pickup truck/hand-me-down-from-grandma 2000s Impala/Scion or not even own a car and take transit or walk. So they have knowledge about various car models but don't participate.

It's an expensive hobby and motorsports are inherently dangerous. Or because many folks have limited physical room nor time for a single vehicle. Or, that they really don't externally care about what a "cool" vehicle is, as long as they like it.

One drawback to weekday business travel is that I only have time for one car, and barely much time to drive my own car; I'd rather spend it with my kids. I haven't gone autocrossing more than a handful of times, and very personally, it's selfish because I'd rather give my spare time to the children. I've thought about getting a used S2000 for weekends or regional work, but it seems to have a problem with fitting luggage the size of a roll-aboard suitcase (unless you remove the spare). Secondly, there isn't as much local work to justify the purchase of something that's going to be a roadblock in my driveway for weeks on end. Lastly, I like to go places...not see the same thing over and over again.

[jeffandnicole]

I've noticed something  about a lot of Millennials as an extra-late X'er that's been into cars and racing for over 20 years. They'll watch a lot of car videos on the internet, hang out on Jalopnik and its sister sites, play Forza/Gran Turismo/NFS, talk about Ken Block but won't buy a cool/fun car even if they can afford it. They still drive some boring stock Civic/2000s pickup truck/hand-me-down-from-grandma 2000s Impala/Scion or not even own a car and take transit or walk. So they have knowledge about various car models but don't participate.

Because it's an expensive hobby and motorsports are inherently dangerous?

Honestly, I've noticed the same thing of posters on these forums.  People love to talk roads and highways and such amongst each other, but when it comes to reading and looking up official material, people shy away from it.  Many have no clue how to access transportation documents from their state on the web (some states being better than others, but when you find the info it's amazing the amount of detail some provide).  People love to drive, but when I posted about a volunteer driving opportunity, absolutely no one had any interest from what I could tell. 

So, going back to the original statement - for many people it's fun to discuss and such, but it's not the 70's and 80's anymore.  I wasn't into cars, but yet would know about the various illegal street races in South Philly and elsewhere.  Finding places to street race is nearly impossible, with huge penalties when caught.

[PHLBOS]

when I posted about a volunteer driving opportunity, absolutely no one had any interest from what I could tell.

That's largely because most if not all that driving for said-opportunity is in the City of Philadelphia at a time when there will be road closures & restrictions due to the upcoming DNC Convention.  While such will certainly not resemble the lock-down that took place last year during the papal visit; the traffic en route and the perceived hassle factor (& the fact that delegates (regardless of party) can be arrogant and/or lousy tippers) is enough to take a pass.

Also, most of the users on this board don't live near Philly nor are in the Delaware Valley.

Side bar: had someone made a similar request for the GOP Convention in Cleveland; the level of interest & response would likely be similar.

Most driving enthusiasts loath city driving.

[Max Rockatansky]

when I posted about a volunteer driving opportunity, absolutely no one had any interest from what I could tell.

That's largely because most if not all that driving for said-opportunity is in the City of Philadelphia at a time when there will be road closures & restrictions due to the upcoming DNC Convention.  While such will certainly not resemble the lock-down that took place last year during the papal visit; the traffic en route and the perceived hassle factor (& the fact that delegates (regardless of party) can be arrogant and/or lousy tippers) is enough to take a pass.

Also, most of the users on this board don't live near Philly nor are in the Delaware Valley.

Side bar: had someone made a similar request for the GOP Convention in Cleveland; the level of interest & response would likely be similar.

Most driving enthusiasts loath city driving.

I'll second this....a lot of the reason I chose a transfer out of the east coast was due to the high volumes of traffic.  I love driving but I HATE commuting, especially in traffic.  Driving to me is heading out on a country road somewhere...not slogging down I-66 in gridlock for 90 minutes plus every morning.  It's funny that Philadelphia keeps getting mentioned.  Two years ago my family had a reunion in Barnaget New Jersey.  I snuck on through via US 40 but my brother insisted on flying into Philadelphia and staying there overnight.  When I drove into Barnaget from Atlantic City that Saturday morning via US 9 I passed probably literally 2,500 cars on the surface streets trying to get to the coast line.  So my brother...in his infinite wisdom decided not to leave early ended up being 3 hours late to the reunion despite my warnings to him.  Truly it is a different world in that part of the country, you have so many people living in such a small place that driving is difficult pretty much all the time.

[formulanone]

Most driving enthusiasts loath city driving.

Mid-day, most big cities have just enough traffic but not too much where it's gridlocked, the sunlight isn't directly your face nor casting deep shadows everywhere, and they're worth touring for the sake of seeing the sights. Not to mention, there's all sorts of old stuff to check out. Drawbacks are finding parking and uncrowded lunch spots.

Not much of a fan during peak travel hours, unless it's a place where traffic doesn't get backed up in the particular direction of travel.

[AlexandriaVA]

Also the Sunday drive. Never saw the appeal of that.

[Max Rockatansky]

Also the Sunday drive. Never saw the appeal of that.

Seeing something new?  Taking a car out of the garage that only comes out on weekends?  For me it's usually been one of the two if not both.  But then again out west there is a lot more open landscape to go explore than back east.  Part of that is being into the outdoors given that I climb, hike, run, ect...but there are times that I just want to go see a road because it looks cool and why not take the weekend car out to do it?  Granted....your screen name is Alexandria, VA, so basically going anywhere in a car even on weekends is probably going to be a slog of misery....at least for my Uncle it is and he lives there as well.

[AlexandriaVA]

Also the Sunday drive. Never saw the appeal of that.

Seeing something new?  Taking a car out of the garage that only comes out on weekends?  For me it's usually been one of the two if not both.  But then again out west there is a lot more open landscape to go explore than back east.  Part of that is being into the outdoors given that I climb, hike, run, ect...but there are times that I just want to go see a road because it looks cool and why not take the weekend car out to do it?  Granted....your screen name is Alexandria, VA, so basically going anywhere in a car even on weekends is probably going to be a slog of misery....at least for my Uncle it is and he lives there as well.

Didn't know people did that...

[Max Rockatansky]

Also the Sunday drive. Never saw the appeal of that.

Seeing something new?  Taking a car out of the garage that only comes out on weekends?  For me it's usually been one of the two if not both.  But then again out west there is a lot more open landscape to go explore than back east.  Part of that is being into the outdoors given that I climb, hike, run, ect...but there are times that I just want to go see a road because it looks cool and why not take the weekend car out to do it?  Granted....your screen name is Alexandria, VA, so basically going anywhere in a car even on weekends is probably going to be a slog of misery....at least for my Uncle it is and he lives there as well.

Didn't know people did that...

It's not a big of thing as it used to be...  My Dad, me and brother have usually had something additional in the garage for the weekends on top of the daily commuter.  But that's what we all grew up in, really it's just a family car nuts doing car things which I realize isn't in the budget for everyone nor the interest might not exist.

[GCrites]

I've noticed something  about a lot of Millennials as an extra-late X'er that's been into cars and racing for over 20 years. They'll watch a lot of car videos on the internet, hang out on Jalopnik and its sister sites, play Forza/Gran Turismo/NFS, talk about Ken Block but won't buy a cool/fun car even if they can afford it. They still drive some boring stock Civic/2000s pickup truck/hand-me-down-from-grandma 2000s Impala/Scion or not even own a car and take transit or walk. So they have knowledge about various car models but don't participate.

Because it's an expensive hobby and motorsports are inherently dangerous?

Honestly, I've noticed the same thing of posters on these forums.  People love to talk roads and highways and such amongst each other, but when it comes to reading and looking up official material, people shy away from it.  Many have no clue how to access transportation documents from their state on the web (some states being better than others, but when you find the info it's amazing the amount of detail some provide).  People love to drive, but when I posted about a volunteer driving opportunity, absolutely no one had any interest from what I could tell. 

I've got two takeaways from that. 1. Public sector websites are often crummy and labyrinthine. Part of it is that the public sector often doesn't get to pay their people as well as the private sector for web design work and the other part is that the sites aren't selling anything or doing it as a passion play. 2. I've noticed that by going to forum meets for other sites is that sometimes the users like the forum's atmosphere more than the subject matter itself. Or they are recluses that use forums and websites as just another way to pass the time at home inside while not at work.

[kphoger]

Yeah, I find it ironic to complain on an internet forum about people being armchair enthusiasts.

[jeffandnicole]

when I posted about a volunteer driving opportunity, absolutely no one had any interest from what I could tell.

That's largely because most if not all that driving for said-opportunity is in the City of Philadelphia at a time when there will be road closures & restrictions due to the upcoming DNC Convention.  While such will certainly not resemble the lock-down that took place last year during the papal visit; the traffic en route and the perceived hassle factor (& the fact that delegates (regardless of party) can be arrogant and/or lousy tippers) is enough to take a pass.

Also, most of the users on this board don't live near Philly nor are in the Delaware Valley.

No doubt driving will be a pain in the butt, and the recent national issues won't help matters.  That said, this is kinda the behind-the-scenes work that allows one to understand those road closures, and depending on what one would do, be permitted thru those road closures.  Basically, it would be a chance to drive in a different environment in an official capacity.  And you don't even use your own car!

As far as tipping goes, I don't expect anyone to tip.  While we are drivers for official people, we're not taxi drivers in that sense.  If I was important enough in my day-to-day work to have a driver, I wouldn't expect to tip the driver...he's a driver because that's his job.

It's a volunteer activity, plain and simple.  And I think much of what you stated is shared amongst the population in general: If I'm not getting anything (especially money) out of it, why should I do it?  Long-time organizations such as the Lions Club, Rotary, Jaycees, etc are all having the same issues: They simply can't get people out to volunteer.  The shame of it is that there's a need for volunteers more than ever. 

Until last decade, those organizations served as a way for people to interact with each other.  Outside of making phone calls or snail mail, people actually had to meet up with each other to talk about what was going on.  Today, using a computer is considered outdated...I should be able to tell everyone what's going on by using my phone while driving.  And to meet up at a meeting in an organization that you probably have to pay to join up for?  Most people would say...why bother? 

Yeah, I find it ironic to complain on an internet forum about people being armchair enthusiasts.

LOL...I figured it would be a way to get people out and about.  Maybe if I renamed it a Pokémon Go activity, it would've received more interest!!! 

[AlexandriaVA]

I would also say that I enjoy roads, in the sense that I appreciate networks. I also enjoy railroads (the networks themselves) for the same reason, but I am not a railfan. The car is a mere accessory to the roads.

[Max Rockatansky]

I would also say that I enjoy roads, in the sense that I appreciate networks. I also enjoy railroads (the networks themselves) for the same reason, but I am not a railfan. The car is a mere accessory to the roads.

See that's the thing for me, they always seemed to go hand and hand from perspective.  I'm not talking about necessarily taking some big block muscle car out onto the roads to explore signage...it just seem like my interest in cars led to my interest in everything else transportation related.  The way a lot of these roads were built actually the car was the accessory but then it morphed into the road was the accessory to facilitate the car...especially when freeways leading up to the Interstate were being built.  I've always been fascinated by cars and even things like four cylinder run of the mill stuff interests me.  Hell look at all the old Motorweek reviews I posted in the 80s/90s car thread, I think the most interesting thing for me was that Pontiac 1000. 

[GCrites]

And most car people eventually become interested in at least one other type of vehicle be it airplanes, boats, motorcycles and/or trains.

[Desert Man]

In the US and esp. CA (birthplace of car culture), people (esp. generation Y) seem less interested in cars, driving and road trips like their parents and grandparents were. Cities and metro areas like L.A. and SF are increasingly pedestrians, more bicycles and an interest in taking public transit are trends you would notice there. And finally, concerns about the costs of gas per gallon, insurance and ownership, along with road safety and environmentalism (we're trying hard to undo global warming or climate change), made cars less appealing to people in the 2010s. 

[Max Rockatansky]

And most car people eventually become interested in at least one other type of vehicle be it airplanes, boats, motorcycles and/or trains.

For me about the only thing I never really got into was boats which is incredibly ironic considering I'm from Michigan and how I spent part of my early adulthood.  I'm more of a casual motorcycle fan but I spent a great deal of time in my teens building my own dirt bikes.  I think it's more of culture thing that pushed me towards cars than motorcycles.  It seems like you either have to have way overgrown beard and 50 plus to be Harley guy or some 20-something with a bad DMV record to be into sports bikes.  I love tracking old railroad alignments, anything mine related in particular is interesting to me.  I would never pass up a quality museum on any form of transportation be it; car, rail, boat, motorcycle, plane or otherwise like a space exhibit. 

[Max Rockatansky]

In the US and esp. CA (birthplace of car culture), people (esp. generation Y) seem less interested in cars, driving and road trips like their parents and grandparents were. Cities and metro areas like L.A. and SF are increasingly pedestrians, more bicycles and an interest in taking public transit are trends you would notice there. And finally, concerns about the costs of gas per gallon, insurance and ownership, along with road safety and environmentalism (we're trying hard to undo global warming or climate change), made cars less appealing to people in the 2010s.

And a lot of it seems to be deliberate in regards to legislation to push people away from cars.  It's hard not to think that when you see things like the high speed rail possibly being funded by a mileage usage tax. 

[GCrites]

And most car people eventually become interested in at least one other type of vehicle be it airplanes, boats, motorcycles and/or trains.

For me about the only thing I never really got into was boats which is incredibly ironic considering I'm from Michigan and how I spent part of my early adulthood.  I'm more of a casual motorcycle fan but I spent a great deal of time in my teens building my own dirt bikes.  I think it's more of culture thing that pushed me towards cars than motorcycles.  It seems like you either have to have way overgrown beard and 50 plus to be Harley guy or some 20-something with a bad DMV record to be into sports bikes.  I love tracking old railroad alignments, anything mine related in particular is interesting to me.  I would never pass up a quality museum on any form of transportation be it; car, rail, boat, motorcycle, plane or otherwise like a space exhibit.

I think overall thinks like bikes and boats traditionally have a dearth of 30-45 y.o. participants due to that being prime kid-raisin' age.

[bing101]

Not necessarily though. In the Bay Area you need Bart or buses to get to work because the parking fees are big in these areas. Its simply built for public transit. But I think car culture still exists though.

San Francisco ironically is the only western city that has gone through Manhattenization.  It has the second highest population density after NYC, I want to say it's about 20,000 people per square mile if I recall the demographics correct.  So basically you can't have the same level of roadways being built with all that pre-existing infrastructure in place....it's a very old city by west coast standards.  Basically you run into that all over the eastern sea board, a city is small in terms of actual area but the population is very high.  Look at something like Phoenix which is 518 square miles and despite almost having 1.5 million residents has a density of about 3,000 per mile.  Basically cities like Phoenix, L.A., Salt Lake City and Las Vegas largely grew up in an era where the car was the primary form of transportation which is why they were designed with it in mind.

True and also Manhattan is just the same size as Vallejo, CA when you take into account land area. But wait Since I mentioned Vallejo its the city where Solano county people do use their cars but they have to park them at the Vallejo Ferry Terminal and a park and ride spot to go to a bus that goes to San Francisco.