AARoads Forum

I hope the subject line isn't confusing. I know from doing some research online that non-Florida residents can obtain a SunPass for use on the toll roads down there and I see that there are two types of devices, the SunPass Mini and a more conventional device.

I'm wondering if anyone could give me advice on obtaining one of those things. Here are my circumstances and questions:

(1) I don't drive to Florida very often at all (last trip in my car was in 2005 via the Auto Train; that trip involved paying tolls on FL-417, the Bee Line, and Alligator Alley). My wife flies down to visit relatives typically twice a year and rents a car. But we are thinking about a vacation down there this summer, either driving all the way or taking the Auto Train, and so I've been pondering the idea of getting a SunPass just because I hate waiting on line at tollbooths and fumbling around with cash. We'd likely be making a full circuit all the way down the east coast, possibly as far as Key West, across to Fort Myers, and up to Orlando to stop at Disney on the way home (and I want to go over the Sunshine Skyway en route just to see the bridge). From looking at the map we'd almost certainly be using some of the toll roads at some point, probably multiple portions of the turnpike, Alligator Alley, and maybe some of the roads in the Miami and Orlando areas.

(2) I see that the Mini basically works out to have no cost other than the tolls you pay because the cost of the device is refunded back to your account, whereas the regular device appears to have a non-refundable $25 charge–i.e., if you cancel your account, you do not return the regular transponder like you do with E-ZPass and you're out the $25.

(3) On the other hand, I see the Mini will stop working once it's removed from the windshield.

(4) First question: Does the SunPass Mini interfere with transponders on other systems, such as E-ZPass or remote gate openers that use stick-on transponders? The reason I ask this question is that I remember back before Virginia integrated its old Smart Tag system with E-ZPass, the E-ZPass would prevent the Smart Tag from working if you forgot to put the E-ZPass in the no-read bag (Virginia, of course, didn't provide a no-read bag). If the devices interfere, this would be a reason to get the conventional transponder.

(5) Obviously another reason to get the conventional transponder would be the convenience for my wife in that she could just take the device with her when she flies down and then use it in whatever rental car. That brings me to the second question: If you don't use a SunPass for a long time, does the account expire or otherwise get revoked? The Virginia E-ZPass agreement says somewhere in the small print that you're supposed to use the device at least once every six months or your account may be cancelled. I got a letter of this sort once when I hadn't had reason to drive on the toll roads for awhile. Ultimately they didn't cancel the account after I called them. But my question stems from those circumstances because if Florida would cancel your SunPass account for non-use, then it would be a clear reason not to get the conventional transponder.


What it really boils down to is that from my research, the SunPass Mini seems like the more sensible device for someone living in Virginia at first blush because you can close the account and get all your money back. I suppose if you do that, when you get home you can just scrape the thing off the windshield if it does interfere with the E-ZPass. I'm wondering if those of you who drive to Florida, or who live in Florida but have transponders for other states as well, can give me any thoughts on whether it makes more sense just to get the conventional device because of the ability to bring it with us on future trips (even if only twice a year), or whether I'm right to find the $25 nonrefundable charge for the portable device to be off-putting. (It seems to me that if I get the Mini device it doesn't make sense to keep the account open once this trip is over simply because I have no idea when I might take my car down there again.)

Thanks in advance for any help.

Pro-tip: The SunPass Mini stickers work fine when taped to (or held up against) your windshield. You don't need to actually stick it on, regardless of what the SunPass people actually tell you. They're more delicate though, so if you plan on using it regularly I'd just get the conventional suction cup mount one.

The SunPass account never expires and you never lose your money. It works great with rental cars. Just be sure to go to SunPass.com and register the car's tag number with your account so they can bill your account if the transponder doesn't get read properly. The website is set up to allow rental cars so you can give it a tag number and a date/time range and it automatically removes the car after that date.

From an engineering perspective, having two transponders in the car shouldn't interfere with anything, but I've never tried it so I can't promise anything.

Both types of transponders will refund your unused toll balance. The difference is that the SunPass mini comes with $5 in toll credits to cover the cost (making it essentially free) while the suction cup mount one does cost $25 (nonrefundable).

One other note: SunPass is 100% compatible with Orlando's E-Pass tolls. It takes 24 hours for a newly registered SunPass to be tied in with the E-Pass system. If you plan on driving through an E-Pass toll booth with a SunPass within the first 24 hours of registering it, be sure to go onto SunPass.com with a smartphone or call the 800 number to have your tag tied to your account. It'll get processed as an "image toll" where the E-Pass folks see that the transponder wasn't registered yet but can look up your account # from your tag. It works immediately after registration on SunPass-run toll booths, but having your car tag tied to the account is a very good idea in case the transponder isn't read. It keeps you from getting a toll violation ticket.

E-Z Pass and Sunpass are separate systems and do not work interchangeably.  I have to keep both transponders in the car when driving back and forth to New York and Florida.  I do not keep either "-pass" on the windshields of my cars since I own four cars in two States and just do not travel very often, of late.

Quote from: xcellntbuy on May 16, 2011, 11:39:49 AM
E-Z Pass and Sunpass are separate systems and do not work interchangeably. I have to keep both transponders in the car when driving back and forth to New York and Florida.  I do not keep either "-pass" on the windshields of my cars since I own four cars in two States and just do not travel very often, of late.

Yeah, this part I knew, which was what prompted the question because I remember how when Smart Tag and E-ZPass were separate systems they interfered with each other–found that out the hard way when I was approaching a tollbooth on the Dulles Toll Road and realized I had the E-ZPass up, so I threw it on the passenger seat and stuck the Smart Tag up in its place, but it was too late–the E-ZPass interfered and I had to pay cash.


To save space I won't quote realjd's post, but thanks for the advice on the tape aspect. I remember when I first got the Smart Tag I used tape to fasten it to the windshield in my parents' car when I was riding with them one weekend and it worked fine, but that hard plastic device is rather different from the stick-on SunPass Mini. Based on your comments, it sounds as though the Mini, taped to the windshield, is the way to go. As you can see from my user info, I live in the DC area, so the idea of paying $25 nonrefundable for a transponder that will seldom get used doesn't appeal to me.

I figure if I get one I'd just order the thing a few weeks in advance of our trip so that if they ship it to me we'd have it on time with no worries about activation.

Thanks again for the help. I still wish that we could have a North America Pass that would work on all toll facilities in the US, Canada, and Mexico (although I don't plan on driving any of my cars to Mexico).

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 16, 2011, 11:55:26 AM
Thanks again for the help. I still wish that we could have a North America Pass that would work on all toll facilities in the US, Canada, and Mexico (although I don't plan on driving any of my cars to Mexico).

Florida is going to plate-tolls, at least for the SunPass roads like the Turnpike and the Miami-area toll roads. In the not too distant future, tourists won't need to worry about it. They'll be tolled by their license plate and then get a bill in the mail.

Quote from: realjd on May 16, 2011, 11:58:29 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 16, 2011, 11:55:26 AM
Thanks again for the help. I still wish that we could have a North America Pass that would work on all toll facilities in the US, Canada, and Mexico (although I don't plan on driving any of my cars to Mexico).

Florida is going to plate-tolls, at least for the SunPass roads like the Turnpike and the Miami-area toll roads. In the not too distant future, tourists won't need to worry about it. They'll be tolled by their license plate and then get a bill in the mail.

I read about that, but it also mentioned that there would be a processing fee on top of it, sort of like the Intercounty Connector in Maryland ($3 surcharge per trip if you do the video tolling). I saw that the Homestead Extension requires either SunPass or video tolling. The idea of paying the processing fee didn't appeal to me, so that factored into my thought process in favor of getting the device along with my natural dislike of waiting on line to pay a toll.

Quote from: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2011-02-04/news/fl-miami-traffic-turnbell-20100510_1_toll-by-plate-toll-plaza-homestead-extensionYou can avoid the fee by opening a Toll-By-Plate account. Basically, it's like SunPass only without a transponder. You provide your vehicle license plate number and a payment option like a credit or debit card. Every time you drive under a toll gantry, your account will be debited for the amount of the toll, no administrative fee.

Note that this only applies to the Homestead Extension (and I believe SR 924). Other toll roads, including the rest of the Turnpike, use the standard cash or transponder booths.

Buy the mini.  Do not mess with the regular transponders.

Here's why:  the regular transponders have the problem that they run on a battery, the minis do not.

Why is this point so key?  Here's why:  If you're anything like me, you have other things on your mind besides checking to see if the transponder's battery is working.  So you go on your merry way and find out, oh, the battery's dead.  Not a big deal right?  You're a Sunpass customer, the balance is taken from your prepaid tolls on your account.

Wrong.  Normally, that is the case, but one day, a state trooper happened to be patrolling a toll booth.  I had my transponder in the car, and it was out of battery.  The cop STILL wrote me a ticket for "not paying the toll", and I had to appear in court.  I even SHOWED THE JUDGE that I was a Sunpass customer, explained my battery in my transponder died, and showed him proof how the toll was deducted from my account.  HE STILL CHARGED ME WITH A $225 FINE which I had to pay.

So unless you want to happen to you what happened to me, never buy regular transponders.  The mini will not cause you the problems that a regular will.

Get with it, Florida.  How many northeasterners and midwesterners visit Florida regularly who already have an E-ZPass tag on the windshield?  Especially if Florida is making changes anyway, it's time to include E-ZPass as an option.

Of course, I'm sure they'd rather do the plate tolling and add a hefty administrative fee to tourists' toll bills.

Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on May 17, 2011, 01:38:24 AM
Here's why:  the regular transponders have the problem that they run on a battery, the minis do not.

The newest generation of suction-cup mount transponders don't have batteries. They look the same as the old ones but they don't have an LED, don't beep, and don't need a battery.

I've had my older battery powered SunPass not read, as well as my mini. Sometimes it just doesn't read correctly. That's why they check your plate before they mail you a ticket. They show up as "ITOLL" on my SunPass statements. It happens once or twice a year for me. I'd be VERY pissed if I was fined for that. Did you try appealing?

Quote from: Jim on May 17, 2011, 07:48:58 AM
Get with it, Florida.  How many northeasterners and midwesterners visit Florida regularly who already have an E-ZPass tag on the windshield?  Especially if Florida is making changes anyway, it's time to include E-ZPass as an option.

Of course, I'm sure they'd rather do the plate tolling and add a hefty administrative fee to tourists' toll bills.

They are only going to add the administrative fee if you don't have a SunPass account. People from out of state can go to SunPass.com and create a free account, registering their license plates. They don't get the same toll discount that transponder customers get, but they also don't get stuck with the service charge that they tack on if they have to mail a bill.

Adding EZ-Pass compatibility would be expensive. They're spending the money on going to toll-by-plate instead. That way it opens up electronic tolling to all drivers, not just yankees with EZ-Pass tags.

Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on May 17, 2011, 01:38:24 AM
I even SHOWED THE JUDGE that I was a Sunpass customer, explained my battery in my transponder died, and showed him proof how the toll was deducted from my account.  HE STILL CHARGED ME WITH A $225 FINE which I had to pay.

the Hell?

I thought that there was always an option to pay a toll by mail and not get penalized.

I remember I once charged through a toll plaza on X-470* in Denver and, due to the fact that it was a rental car, it took eight months for the toll authorities to catch up to me.  Once they did, they called me on the phone, and went ahead and charged my credit card a whopping 75 cents.  No penalty.

*one of the many 470s.  I can't remember whether X was I, E, or C, or nothing at all.

Quote from: realjd on May 17, 2011, 09:03:24 AMThey are only going to add the administrative fee if you don't have a SunPass account. People from out of state can go to SunPass.com and create a free account, registering their license plates. They don't get the same toll discount that transponder customers get, but they also don't get stuck with the service charge that they tack on if they have to mail a bill.

Sounds fair enough, glad to hear it.

I suppose that in the era of smartphones, someone might even be able to register once on the toll road itself.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 17, 2011, 10:12:55 AM
I thought that there was always an option to pay a toll by mail and not get penalized.

Daniel went through the transponder lane at a toll booth that also had cash lanes. Usually toll roads that accept cash don't have toll by plate.

Quote from: NE2 on May 17, 2011, 10:16:52 AM

Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 17, 2011, 10:12:55 AM
I thought that there was always an option to pay a toll by mail and not get penalized.

Daniel went through the transponder lane at a toll booth that also had cash lanes. Usually toll roads that accept cash don't have toll by plate.

that's what I did.  On *-470 there were options to pay by cash or use a transponder, and I - apparently oblivious to my surroundings - zoomed through a transponder lane at about 30mph.

again, eight months later, they caught up with me and brutally extracted their colossal sum of money.  it was awful; the politeness of the operator quickly wore down my basic humanity, rendering me a shell without identity or being.  Their mental rape, centered around such well-known tenets of dehumanization as "explain one's options in a clear manner" and "imply a general sense of forgiveness" was of the sort which was banned by, I believe, six different paragraphs of the Geneva Convention - seriously, to this day, I cannot hear the words "well that's all right, you can just pay now" without collapsing in a paroxysm of tears and drooling.

I hear that 75 cents can get you an entire candy bar in some jurisdictions.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 17, 2011, 10:12:55 AM
the Hell?

I thought that there was always an option to pay a toll by mail and not get penalized.

Quote from: realjd on May 17, 2011, 09:03:24 AM
Sometimes it just doesn't read correctly. That's why they check your plate before they mail you a ticket. They show up as "ITOLL" on my SunPass statements. It happens once or twice a year for me. I'd be VERY pissed if I was fined for that. Did you try appealing?

I thought so too.  In fact, my toll was deducted from my balance after they snapped a photo of my license plate and showed up as ITOLL, I showed that to the judge.  That did not make any difference to him, he still fined me.  And yes, I did consider appealing, but it would have cost me $175 to appeal.  Paying $225 or having a chance of saving $50 versus a chance to pay an EXTRA $175?  I cut my losses.  But yes, I was very pissed off.

Quote from: NE2 on May 17, 2011, 10:16:52 AM
Daniel went through the transponder lane at a toll booth that also had cash lanes. Usually toll roads that accept cash don't have toll by plate.

Actually, it was a Sunpass only plaza with no cash option.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 17, 2011, 10:36:29 AM
I hear that 75 cents can get you an entire candy bar in some jurisdictions.

Inside the Walmarts of Tennessee you can, in fact, I think they're as low as 50 cents there.

Quote from: realjd on May 17, 2011, 09:03:24 AM
Adding EZ-Pass compatibility would be expensive. They're spending the money on going to toll-by-plate instead. That way it opens up electronic tolling to all drivers, not just yankees with EZ-Pass tags.

Adding EZPass capability would be just plain common sense.  And, it's not just northeasterners who have them.  We Midwesterners do as well.  As far as I am concerned, they can learn to charge my I-Pass account for it.

Quote from: Brandon on May 17, 2011, 01:18:05 PM

Quote from: realjd on May 17, 2011, 09:03:24 AM
Adding EZ-Pass compatibility would be expensive. They're spending the money on going to toll-by-plate instead. That way it opens up electronic tolling to all drivers, not just yankees with EZ-Pass tags.

Adding EZPass capability would be just plain common sense.  And, it's not just northeasterners who have them.  We Midwesterners do as well.  As far as I am concerned, they can learn to charge my I-Pass account for it.

That's easy to say for you. It's my tax dollars having to pay for the extra equipment. Florida uses an incompatible transponder standard. If we're going to pay for an infrastructure upgrade, we could pay for equipment to read transponders used by a subset of the population of a dozen states, or we could pay for toll-by-plate equipment that works for every visitor from everywhere. It's a no-brainer from my perspective.

Quote from: realjd on May 17, 2011, 02:34:36 PM

Quote from: Brandon on May 17, 2011, 01:18:05 PM

Quote from: realjd on May 17, 2011, 09:03:24 AM
Adding EZ-Pass compatibility would be expensive. They're spending the money on going to toll-by-plate instead. That way it opens up electronic tolling to all drivers, not just yankees with EZ-Pass tags.

Adding EZPass capability would be just plain common sense.  And, it's not just northeasterners who have them.  We Midwesterners do as well.  As far as I am concerned, they can learn to charge my I-Pass account for it.

That's easy to say for you. It's my tax dollars having to pay for the extra equipment. Florida uses an incompatible transponder standard. If we're going to pay for an infrastructure upgrade, we could pay for equipment to read transponders used by a subset of the population of a dozen states, or we could pay for toll-by-plate equipment that works for every visitor from everywhere. It's a no-brainer from my perspective.

But at the same token, I would like it if I only needed my Sunpass when driving in Illinois or the northeast. Trying to find an EZPass without a monthly maintenance fee is becoming a harder and harder prospect. I had a Maryland one for several years but got tired of paying the $1.50 monthly fee and and closed my account. The lack of a monthly fee for Sunpass is a nice facet of it.

So  I did a bit of research on tolling technologies. Florida uses the eGo stickers from a company called Transcore and bought their mult-protocol readers. They can support, among other standards, the Mark IV standard used by EZ-PASS, the eGo standard used by the new SunPass stickers and batteryless hard-case transponders, and the old Florida standard. But they can only do 2 protocols at a time. Currently Florida has them read the eGo protocol and the old Florida protocol.

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/3234

The eGo stickers are being phased in by a number of states, including Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas. The EZ-Pass group has been stuck on the question of modernization mainly due to politics, so they're stuck using the Mark IV transponders still.

North Carolina is also going with the eGo stickers, but they're setting their readers to read Mark IV and eGo protocols. They're working on deals with Florida and EZ-Pass to be compatible with both. Consumers will have a choice between a standard eGo sticker that will only work in NC or Florida or a more expensive dual-protocol transponder that would also be compatible with EZ-Pass.

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/4732

Florida is working closely with EZ-Pass and other toll agencies in a common toll-by-plate database. Conceivably, an EZ-Pass customer would be able to drive through a toll-by-plate lane in Florida and have the toll automatically deducted from their account. And the other way around. This seems like a great idea to me.

http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/4297

Also, the tollroadsnews site is full of other highly technical, nerdy transponder info. I love it!

Quote from: realjd on May 17, 2011, 09:03:24 AM
Adding EZ-Pass compatibility would be expensive. They're spending the money on going to toll-by-plate instead. That way it opens up electronic tolling to all drivers, not just yankees with EZ-Pass tags.

How is it too expensive?  All they would have to do is purchase antennas to detect the ex-pass transponder and tie it into the system, no?  I really am curious, because the Thousand Islands Bridge is refusing to go ex-pass for the same reason.

Adding ex-pass would bring the nation closer to having a unified transponder.  Having a surcharge if you don't have an account is BAD.  If we had a single transponder, this problem wouldn't exist.  IMO we should make this single transponder compatible with ON 407 as well.

Having to get an account with a specific agency or pay a surcharge is so backwards!

Quote from: deanej on May 18, 2011, 05:54:07 PM

Quote from: realjd on May 17, 2011, 09:03:24 AM
Adding EZ-Pass compatibility would be expensive. They're spending the money on going to toll-by-plate instead. That way it opens up electronic tolling to all drivers, not just yankees with EZ-Pass tags.

How is it too expensive?  All they would have to do is purchase antennas to detect the ex-pass transponder and tie it into the system, no?  I really am curious, because the Thousand Islands Bridge is refusing to go ex-pass for the same reason.

Adding ex-pass would bring the nation closer to having a unified transponder.  Having a surcharge if you don't have an account is BAD.  If we had a single transponder, this problem wouldn't exist.  IMO we should make this single transponder compatible with ON 407 as well.

Having to get an account with a specific agency or pay a surcharge is so backwards!

Florida is working on tying their license plate database in with the EZ-Pass database. Presumably there would then be no surcharge for EZ-Pass customers. That seems to be the best answer. With one set of image toll equipment they'd be able to support EZ-Pass customers, SunPass non-transponder customers, TX-Tag customers, FastTrack customers, and any other state's toll agency customers.

As for the cost, it's more than just the antennas. The current antennas already are sensitive to that frequency band. The computers talking to those antennas need to be able to speak the proper protocol (language) for the EZ-Pass transponders. That's not trivial, but it's most likely just an equipment purchase. The "tie it into the system" part is the really expensive part. EZ-Pass and SunPass don't necessarily have compatible database, and it's not easy to integrate them. I wish I could explain it better, but there's a LOT of software work in bridging the gap between the two systems. Florida's SunPass and Orlando's E-Pass have been integrated for years and they STILL run into problems.

Sounds like poorly designed software then.  Why can't they just check a box to add EZ-PASS to the list of transponders to read and if it reads EZ-PASS, check the entry from a central EZ-PASS database on the EZ-PASS server?  That's how it should be set up.  Clearly someone didn't have ease of use in mind when they made the system.

Quote from: deanej on May 19, 2011, 05:50:45 PM
Sounds like poorly designed software then.  Why can't they just check a box to add EZ-PASS to the list of transponders to read and if it reads EZ-PASS, check the entry from a central EZ-PASS database on the EZ-PASS server?  That's how it should be set up.  Clearly someone didn't have ease of use in mind when they made the system.

You sound like the electrical engineers I work with... "It's just software!" :)

Regardless of whether the SunPass gantries could read EZ-Pass tags, what incentive would the EZ-Pass states have to install an entirely new system to read the incompatible Florida tags (or NC, or TX, or CA, etc.)? And there's no way Florida would spend all of that money to read EZ-Pass tags when they wouldn't do the same for us. And yes, it may be inconvenient for tourists, but the system was put in place primarily to make life easier for us locals who use the toll booths sometimes daily. What would be the return on investment for spending the tax dollars for EZ-Pass compatibility? As inconvenient as it is for people from out of state, I seriously doubt it is having a serious impact on our tourism.

I suspect that part of the reason Florida didn't go EZ-Pass to begin with was to keep a larger amount of local control. There's a serious amount of politics that goes on among the EZ-Pass consortium that Florida may not have wanted to deal with at the time.

As for the administrative fee on plate tolls, keep in mind that fleecing tourists is what we do. There's a reason we have no state income tax and relatively low sales and property taxes. And we like it that way. Giving y'all a free ride wouldn't be the Florida way!

Personally I'd just have Florida go EZ-Pass (and Texas, Kansas, California, etc. but they aren't as critical because they're further away).  Never heard about the politics though.

I've read that one reason some of the non E-ZPass jurisdictions, including Florida, don't want to join the consortium is that the E-ZPass device is battery-powered and thus has to be replaced every so often (I think I had to replace mine after about five years). I suppose that theoretically increases costs. As has been stated elsewhere in this thread, both of Florida's devices are apparently not battery-powered, and I certainly can't argue that it's more convenient for the motorist as well not to have to think about the battery issue.

The idea of coming up with some sort of inter-agency toll-by-plate system makes a lot of sense, although supposedly some states charge outrageous fees to out-of-state toll agencies for access to plate databases. I don't know the details on that, but I gather that such fees are one obstacle to the adoption of this sort of thing.

As far as states joining or not joining E-ZPass goes, the most absurd argument I ever heard was Virginia's argument against joining E-ZPass back when Jim Gilmore was governor (1998 to 2002). VDOT contended that the majority of trips on Virginia's toll roads are by Virginia residents (which is probably true) and claimed that therefore Virginia residents would not benefit from having E-ZPass accepted on Virginia toll roads. Never mind the thousands of us who travel out-of-state on the East Coast on a regular basis. The people who don't know any other route to New York besides the I-95 ---> New Jersey Turnpike route go through a bunch of E-ZPass member toll facilities each time. Thankfully, when Mark Warner became governor he had them re-examine that–I remember I sent in a letter asking him to reconsider and his secretary of transportation wrote back saying that "Governor Warner does not see any logic in the prior administration's position on this issue."  :-D

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 20, 2011, 01:16:19 PM
As has been stated elsewhere in this thread, both of Florida's devices are apparently not battery-powered, and I certainly can't argue that it's more convenient for the motorist as well not to have to think about the battery issue.

That's relatively new, as of a couple of years ago.

Quote
The idea of coming up with some sort of inter-agency toll-by-plate system makes a lot of sense, although supposedly some states charge outrageous fees to out-of-state toll agencies for access to plate databases. I don't know the details on that, but I gather that such fees are one obstacle to the adoption of this sort of thing.

They charge a fee to do a simple plate lookup? This alone may explain the administrative fee for toll-by-plate here if you don't register your vehicle's tags ahead of time.

Orlando's E-Pass system was actually the first in Florida, and one of the first in the country. I wonder if, back when E-Pass first came around, interoperability was even on anyone's radar? I know E-ZPass (I just realized I had been putting the hyphen in the wrong place!) started around the same time. Early 90's maybe? Linking databases back then would have been a MUCH harder due to the fact that the internet wasn't really big yet. This is pure speculation, but if E-Pass and EZ-Pass were incompatible technologies, when SunPass came out around 2000 that essentially locked them into using the E-Pass technology instead of the more widely used E-ZPass technology due to the need for compatibility with Orlando roads.

I know E-Pass and O-Pass (Osceola Parkway) were interoperable in the pre-SunPass days. It's possible that O-Pass was designed with this in mind.

[edit]Yes, it was: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1995-08-18/news/9508180235_1_osceola-parkway-florida-turnpike-turnpike-interchange/2

Of course O-Pass is dead now...

When did LeeWay come about? Was it originally compatible as well? Their website has diagrams that make it look like they used identical transponders to the E-Pass. And like E-Pass, they now sell their own sticker "mini" transponders.

Maybe the Feds can use a highway money ploy to require interoperability.

Of course, it would have to be tricky as toll roads themselves get little or no federal highway money.

How about this?

To retain federal highway dollars, any conversion of a free highway or toll or the addition of toll lanes to an existing highway must use interoperable transponders.

Now, that wouldn't hit Florida that hard if at all.  So, how about this as well:

Any interchange between a toll highway and a free highway that uses federal highway money must support interoperable transponders for any electronic tolls that they have or the free highway loses its federal $$$.

_______________________________

OK, yes, that's a bit ridiculous, but so is having dozens of electronic tolling transponders across the country.

Thanks again for all the advice in this thread. The SunPass Mini arrived in the mail today. I'm going to leave the E-ZPass at home because we won't need it on this trip (we're taking the Auto Train TO Florida and driving back home at the end of the trip, and E-ZPass won't be needed either way), so I won't be able to confirm whether the devices interfere with each other. I gather from the comments here that you folks recommend simply leaving the peel-off backing on the Mini in place and then using some Scotch tape to attach it to the windshield? If that's a bad idea, please let me know.

Thanks again for the thorough feedback. I've seen reports online that they're working on some sort of integration between E-ZPass and SunPass using toll-by-plate to bill the respective account, in which case I'll cancel the SunPass account, but for our trip later this summer this thread was very helpful.

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
Thanks again for all the advice in this thread. The SunPass Mini arrived in the mail today. I'm going to leave the E-ZPass at home because we won't need it on this trip (we're taking the Auto Train TO Florida and driving back home at the end of the trip, and E-ZPass won't be needed either way), so I won't be able to confirm whether the devices interfere with each other. I gather from the comments here that you folks recommend simply leaving the peel-off backing on the Mini in place and then using some Scotch tape to attach it to the windshield? If that's a bad idea, please let me know.

Yes, do this. Don't peel the backing off. Tape it onto the windshield so that the backing is toward the glass. Everything on the SunPass website and box say this won't work. They try to claim that the windshield glass acts as an antenna. Glass antennas aren't a real thing. I've done this several times before and never had an issue. I've even tried it just holding the sticker up to the glass and it scanned just fine.

I'll reiterate again though - be sure to have your license plate number associated with the SunPass account. Even a properly mounted tag will sometimes not read. If they can tie your tag to your SunPass account you avoid a ticket.

Quote from: realjd on June 08, 2011, 08:18:07 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
Thanks again for all the advice in this thread. The SunPass Mini arrived in the mail today. I'm going to leave the E-ZPass at home because we won't need it on this trip (we're taking the Auto Train TO Florida and driving back home at the end of the trip, and E-ZPass won't be needed either way), so I won't be able to confirm whether the devices interfere with each other. I gather from the comments here that you folks recommend simply leaving the peel-off backing on the Mini in place and then using some Scotch tape to attach it to the windshield? If that's a bad idea, please let me know.

Yes, do this. Don't peel the backing off. Tape it onto the windshield so that the backing is toward the glass. Everything on the SunPass website and box say this won't work. They try to claim that the windshield glass acts as an antenna. Glass antennas aren't a real thing. I've done this several times before and never had an issue. I've even tried it just holding the sticker up to the glass and it scanned just fine.

I'll reiterate again though - be sure to have your license plate number associated with the SunPass account. Even a properly mounted tag will sometimes not read. If they can tie your tag to your SunPass account you avoid a ticket.

Did that when I set up the account and added Ms1995hoo's car even though the odds are it won't be driven in Florida anytime soon. Thanks again for the help. I'll do the tape thing, although I might wait until after we retrieve the car from the Auto Train so there's no temptation for a worker to steal it.

The Mini is quite similar to the Transcore gate openers used at the complex where Ms1995hoo lived before we got married.

Have a great trip! I hope you enjoy your time in our beautiful - if hot - state.

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 07, 2011, 05:40:41 PM
[...] so I won't be able to confirm whether the devices interfere with each other [...]

I'm not sure if anyone has spoken about this in this thread already, but just my two cents: I recently took a trip to Chicago from Florida. I had both a SunPass (portable, battery-powered) and I-Pass (from the ISTHA) mounted in the car in Florida, Indiana, and Illinois, and each worked in their respective regions without interference from what I could tell. All of my toll transactions show up as transponder tolls, with no "image tolls" or "video tolls" as ISTHA calls them I think. Both are still mounted in my car to this day (the trip was 3 months ago) and so far things seem well, though my SunPass is starting to act up, but I think it may be because of a dying battery and not both transponders being mounted to the windshield.

I can now confirm that E-ZPass and the SunPass Mini do not interfere with each other, at least not in Florida, as the SunPass worked fine on the Sunshine Skyway two days ago (I forgot to remove the E-ZPass before leaving home). As suggested here, I used scotch tape to put the SunPass Mini up and it worked fine.

I occasionally see people with a SunPass sticker and E-ZPass tag on their cars (mostly on I-95).  The two systems use COMPLETELY different protocols, and won't interfere with each other.  E-ZPass and Smart Tag used the exact same transponders (hence the interference if the two were mounted side by side).  I would also avoid having two eGo sticker tags mounted side by side (say, a Georgia PeachPass and Florida SunPass). 

The taping the tag to the windshield and not peeling off the backing is a good trick to know, as it would enable someone to have multiple accounts and be able to swap out the tags when necessary.  Though if I was just going on a quick trip to Florida, I might be tempted to actually put the sticker tag on properly, then peel it off (and in the process, destroying it) when I get home.  SunPass has no idea that the tag is destroyed, but I still have my account.  Then, next time I go to Florida, which would likely be a year or more later, I just order another sticker, link it to the account I have set up already, and pull the old tag off the account).  As long as the SunPasses are "free" (read: as long as I spend more than $5 in tolls per trip), no harm, no foul with getting a new tag for each trip. 

Of note...E-ZPass and SunPass will have some limited interoperability by year's end. 
http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5365

Apparently E-ZPass will likely work in SunPass territory, but the transactions will all be video transactions, not transponder transactions, so having E-ZPass mounted is not necessary, but having your license plate info up to date is necessary!  All Florida toll agencies will allow rental cars to drive through the electronic lanes without a transponder...those are video transactions.  So essentially what will happen is you drive through the SunPass lane, it won't read a transponder, but will snap a photo since it assumes you are a violator.  But  prior to generating a violation notice, it checks a list of "known license plates".  That's how they know which rental car company to bill each rental car toll to.  Now, all the E-ZPass license plates will be "known" to the SunPass computers, and they will simply bill E-ZPass instead of generating a violation. 

The reverse is likely to take much longer though.  Many E-ZPass toll agencies still have gates and no cameras...thus, you have to have a transponder that properly reads in order to pass through.  This is why the rental cars come with an E-ZPass transponder if you rent one in an E-ZPass state...they can't do video tolls.  So my guess is that first, the agencies that do cashless tolling (Maryland) will be first on board with "knowing" the license plate numbers of SunPass customers.  Then agencies that don't have cashless tolling, but do have video cams, will come on board, as they may need to upgrade systems for many more video-based transactions.  The agencies that use gated lanes, or some lanes without video cameras (such as some ticket toll roads that only have cameras on exit lanes, not entry lanes) will be last to be SunPass compatible. 

Lets hope this E-ZPass/SunPass experiment works, because if it does, we can expect to see a lot more interoperability in the near future!

Found out the hard way yesterday that the Rickenbacker Causeway to Key Biscayne doesn't accept SunPass (drove into the auto-toll lane because no sign said they don't take SunPass, then found a tiny sign taped by the arm...d'oh). Arm went up after a brief delay and we went on our way. Anyone know whether I ought to expect a bill in the mail in a few weeks? The waiter at the restaurant where we stopped thought they usually don't bother if you're recorded for just a single violation at that facility.

Used the I-95 HOT facility twice, incidentally. It was only 25 cents since it was Saturday and there were fewer cars in there. The system here is a bit different from what Virginia is doing with HOT lanes because here you must register your carpool to ride free, whereas Virginia plans to use a switchable E-ZPass so that anyone with three or more people can use the lanes for free. In principle I like Virginia's approach better, but we'll see how it works in practice.

Registered carpools are just a way to "minimize" the use of the lanes by non-toll paying customers.  Oh, and they won't let you register unless you are a Florida resident.  I know someone who wanted to register, who was from WV, and was a "snowbird", and the answer was "No can do."

Virginia will have quite a few HOV-3's paying the toll too.  Anyone from NY, MA, etc. with an E-ZPass can use the HOT lanes, but if you don't have the switchable transponder, it will just assume it should charge you the toll.  I imagine a lot of unhappy people who see the signs: "Express Lanes, E-ZPass Only, HOV-3+ Free" and either think the system will automatically not charge HOV-3 vehicles (not true, only with switchable transponder), or think that these HOT lanes work like California's, and that the "HOV-3+ Free" means they can dismount their E-ZPass for free passage (not true, the HOV-3+ free is telling you to switch your transponder into HOV mode, and not to dismount it, those who do will get a violation notice for fine + toll).  The only reason VDOT is requiring E-ZPass for HOV's not paying the toll is so they have a log of what the toll "would have been" had they paid...which means logging entry and exit points for all vehicles, not just toll paying vehicles.  They need to know what the toll "would have been" so they can charge VDOT if there are too many HOV's using the facility toll free, as per the agreement. 

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 26, 2011, 09:19:27 AM
Found out the hard way yesterday that the Rickenbacker Causeway to Key Biscayne doesn't accept SunPass (drove into the auto-toll lane because no sign said they don't take SunPass, then found a tiny sign taped by the arm...d'oh). Arm went up after a brief delay and we went on our way. Anyone know whether I ought to expect a bill in the mail in a few weeks? The waiter at the restaurant where we stopped thought they usually don't bother if you're recorded for just a single violation at that facility.

I think the state gives you 3 violations before they bother with the ticket. The Rickenbacker is a county road, I don't know what Miami-Dade County would do. If you're concerned, there's a phone number here:
http://www.miamidade.gov/pubworks/causeways.asp

Quote from: mtantillo on June 26, 2011, 12:31:28 PM
Registered carpools are just a way to "minimize" the use of the lanes by non-toll paying customers.  Oh, and they won't let you register unless you are a Florida resident.  I know someone who wanted to register, who was from WV, and was a "snowbird", and the answer was "No can do."

Virginia will have quite a few HOV-3's paying the toll too.  Anyone from NY, MA, etc. with an E-ZPass can use the HOT lanes, but if you don't have the switchable transponder, it will just assume it should charge you the toll.  I imagine a lot of unhappy people who see the signs: "Express Lanes, E-ZPass Only, HOV-3+ Free" and either think the system will automatically not charge HOV-3 vehicles (not true, only with switchable transponder), or think that these HOT lanes work like California's, and that the "HOV-3+ Free" means they can dismount their E-ZPass for free passage (not true, the HOV-3+ free is telling you to switch your transponder into HOV mode, and not to dismount it, those who do will get a violation notice for fine + toll).  The only reason VDOT is requiring E-ZPass for HOV's not paying the toll is so they have a log of what the toll "would have been" had they paid...which means logging entry and exit points for all vehicles, not just toll paying vehicles.  They need to know what the toll "would have been" so they can charge VDOT if there are too many HOV's using the facility toll free, as per the agreement. 

I'm sure the fact that the state can now make people without transponders who would otherwise be eligible to use the lane for free pay up is also a factor.

I realized that I forgot to follow up on one aspect of this thread. In my original post from a few months ago I had asked whether the SunPass device interferes with the E-ZPass because back when Virginia's old Smart Tag system was incompatible with E-ZPass the two devices interfered with each other. I previously confirmed here that the SunPass Mini worked fine in Florida when the E-ZPass was in place. Last Thursday night I used my E-ZPass for the first time since returning from Florida when I went through the Spring Hill Road ramp toll on the Dulles Toll Road coming from DC. (Yes, if I had used VA-123 I could have saved 75¢, but traffic on there was at a standstill and I really needed to use the men's room.) I still have the SunPass Mini in place (using Scotch tape as discussed here) and there was no problem at all.

Just thought I'd follow up for completeness in case anyone else ever looks at this thread with the same questions. Thanks again to those who responded with advice.


PS. No ticket from the Rickenbacker, at least not yet. Had they sent one with some kind of surcharge I probably would have sent them the amount of the toll with no surcharge and a letter saying "put up a 'No SunPass' sign."

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 02, 2011, 04:40:30 PM
PS. No ticket from the Rickenbacker, at least not yet. Had they sent one with some kind of surcharge I probably would have sent them the amount of the toll with no surcharge and a letter saying "put up a 'No SunPass' sign."

Almost every place will waive the fee if you call and have an honest explanation for the mistake. 

as for why no ticket, probably because it would cost them way more in lookup fees than they would recover in tolls.  The toll agencies usually have agreements to buy bulk data with only a few states (or in Miami, I wouldn't be surprised if it was only Florida).  I'm still waiting for a speed camera ticket I got in DC back in 2003....car was registered in NY at the time, I guess DC doesn't have an agreement with NY!  Though they probably do now.

Totally unrelated to this topic, but nice smackdown of those idiots making the whiny comments about the HOT project on WTOP's site.

Haha no problem!  What I said is the truth.  We transportation types run into a lot of people who think they know everything.  Those types, we can try to teach them how things work, but if they don't listen, their opinion is quickly dismissed.  Contrast that with people who disagree with a project and can make a logical argument as to why.  HOT ain't perfect, but at the end of the day, we have 2 new lanes on I-495 which are partially funded by users.  The lanes will operate close to their maximum capacity.  When we get enough of these in the USA, an American company will start bidding these projects.   

And to get back on topic, the I-95 HOT lanes in Miami enjoy approval from a majority of people polled. 

SunPass recently added info on SunPass and EZ-Pass (lack of) interference on their website:
https://www.sunpass.com/faq

Quote
30. Will a SunPass Mini transponder interfere with our EZ Pass when we mount it to our windshield on trips to the Northeast?

A. No, your SunPass Mini will not interfere as the transponders have different protocols and will not register the tolls outside their jurisdiction.

From TOLLROADSnews: IBTTA to US House transport committee: "We're doing toll interoperability. Butt out." (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5683)

QuoteE-ZPass/Florida SunPass "on verge" of IOP pact

Biggest news will be the statement that the E-ZPass Group and Florida's SunPass system "are on the verge of an agreement that will allow these two systems to read and process payments between the drivers using either system."

The report has a timeline chart at the end which has June 2012 the estimated date for a 'E-ZPass SunPass Reciprocity Agreement.'

They say: "This would allow users of the predominant electronic toll collection systems on the U.S. East Coast to traverse toll systems between Florida and Maine and west to Illinois using their 'home' transponder."

Having both a Sunpass (my Florida home) and an E-Z Pass (my New York home), it would great to use up the balance and then just keep one and close the other.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 03, 2012, 01:27:32 PM
From TOLLROADSnews: IBTTA to US House transport committee: "We're doing toll interoperability. Butt out." (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5683)

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it.  If we letter the tollers control it, we'll have interoperability by say 2050!  I'm generally a fan of small government, but unless the federal government intervenes, there will be some holdouts for a long time.

Quote from: mightyace on January 06, 2012, 09:35:20 PM

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 03, 2012, 01:27:32 PM
From TOLLROADSnews: IBTTA to US House transport committee: "We're doing toll interoperability. Butt out." (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5683)

I'm sorry but I'm not buying it.  If we letter the tollers control it, we'll have interoperability by say 2050!  I'm generally a fan of small government, but unless the federal government intervenes, there will be some holdouts for a long time.

Perhaps not?  As Peter writes below, tri-mode readers should be a Great Leap Forward for interoperability, especially in the East and Midwest.

TOLLROADSnews: Major toll equipment makers set to offer tri-mode readers (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5693)

QuoteE-ZPass toll country has only the one protocol to handle internally (IAG) and it could choose to read say 6Bs from Florida and Texas with a present generation bi-mode reader. But it couldn't read all SunPass or all TxTag because those brands are still represented with by a minority of tags using the older protocols.

QuoteThe big push at present is for east coast interoperability - E-ZPass, NC, GA, FL.

QuoteOfficials involved in the interoperability effort say tri-mode readers would help hugely down the east coast because they could be set to E-ZPass IAG, 6B eGo and Allegro protocols. Handling 6C would be something of a challenge still, but a small one in terms of volume.

TOLLROADSnews is reporting that  Florida's Turnpike Enterprise will be procuring transponder readers and back-office hardware to directly read E-ZPass IAG transponders.

Florida Turnpike procuring 3 or 4-way readers for interop with E-ZPass, NC, GA first up (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5697)

And not just the Turnpike's toll roads either:

QuoteThe Turnpike seems to be leading the push for interoperability in the state which makes sense because its the largest and it gets by far the most long-distance traffic. Nelson says he thinks the Orlando, Miami and Tampa tollers will also become part of the process also.

Just curious here and planning a trip to FL...

Do all the toll roads/bridges in Florida accept SunPass ??  Are there any toll facilities that do not accept SunPass, especially around Orlando or Tampa ?

thanks for any advice.

Quote from: drrosenrosen on January 16, 2012, 06:58:26 AM
Just curious here and planning a trip to FL...

Do all the toll roads/bridges in Florida accept SunPass ??  Are there any toll facilities that do not accept SunPass, especially around Orlando or Tampa ?

thanks for any advice.

There may be a few backwater bridges that don't, but all the major ones do. Certainly all in the Orlando area do, and all in Tampa, though I'm not sure about all the bridges out to the coast near St. Pete.

The Rickenbacker Causeway to Key Biscayne did not accept SunPass as of last June.


Edited to add: DeaconG's post prompts me to recall that the facility is not cash-only; it has its own transponder called "C-Pass." That's part of what tripped me up last summer–when you drive around Florida, you'll see electronic toll signs with various logos (SunPass; E-Pass; possibly LeeWay if you visit Fort Myers) but the SunPass will work at all of those. So I assumed the same was true of "C-Pass" and didn't learn otherwise until I got up to the tollgate and saw an 8.5 x 11—inch piece of paper with "This Is Not a SunPass Facility" printed on it, and of course by then it was too late to back up. Stupid that they didn't have a better or clearer sign, but since I never got a ticket for the unpaid toll I can shrug it off.

Pensacola Beach Causeway does not accept SunPass either-cash only (unless you're a resident and pay for a yearly pass).

All the toll roads in the Orlando area accept SunPass, not sure about Tampa.

In Tampa, SunPass is accepted on SR 618 (Selmon Crosstown Expressway) as well as SR 589 (Veterans Expressway / Suncoast Pkwy) and SR 568 (Veterans Expressway Spur). South of Tampa, SunPass is also accepted on the Sunshine Skyway (I-275) and the Pinellas Bayway bridges (SRs 679 and 682).

The only two bridges I know of that don't accept SunPass are the Rickenbacker Causeway (hidden SR 913) and the Card Sound Rd Bridge (CR 905A). There may be others as other people have mentioned above.

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 16, 2012, 08:40:30 AM
The Rickenbacker Causeway to Key Biscayne did not accept SunPass as of last June.

Quote from: DeaconG on January 16, 2012, 11:35:39 AM
Pensacola Beach Causeway does not accept SunPass either-cash only (unless you're a resident and pay for a yearly pass).

This is part of what I'm talking about.  The big state-level agencies have some incentive to do this.

But, small agencies like above may not unless they are forced.

And, some large agencies may not as well.  The authority running the Golden Gate Bridge may not care for interoperability with EZ-Pass or even the pass(es) in Los Angeles and San Diego.

Quote from: mightyace on January 20, 2012, 12:21:25 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 16, 2012, 08:40:30 AM
The Rickenbacker Causeway to Key Biscayne did not accept SunPass as of last June.

Quote from: DeaconG on January 16, 2012, 11:35:39 AM
Pensacola Beach Causeway does not accept SunPass either-cash only (unless you're a resident and pay for a yearly pass).

This is part of what I'm talking about.  The big state-level agencies have some incentive to do this.

But, small agencies like above may not unless they are forced.

And, some large agencies may not as well.  The authority running the Golden Gate Bridge may not care for interoperability with EZ-Pass or even the pass(es) in Los Angeles and San Diego.

FasTrak, the statewide electronic toll collection system in California, works on all public toll roads and toll crossings statewide, but probably not the relatively few private ones (for example I don't think FasTrak is honored on 17 Mile Drive (http://www.pebblebeach.com/activities/explore-the-monterey-peninsula/17-mile-drive) on the Monterey Peninsula, which is owned by a private entity).

Quote from: Ace10 on January 19, 2012, 11:21:17 PM
In Tampa, SunPass is accepted on SR 618 (Selmon Crosstown Expressway) as well as SR 589 (Veterans Expressway / Suncoast Pkwy) and SR 568 (Veterans Expressway Spur). South of Tampa, SunPass is also accepted on the Sunshine Skyway (I-275) and the Pinellas Bayway bridges (SRs 679 and 682).

The only two bridges I know of that don't accept SunPass are the Rickenbacker Causeway (hidden SR 913) and the Card Sound Rd Bridge (CR 905A). There may be others as other people have mentioned above.

The Pensacola Bay Bridge also doesn't.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 22, 2012, 08:24:41 PM

Quote from: mightyace on January 20, 2012, 12:21:25 PM
And, some large agencies may not as well.  The authority running the Golden Gate Bridge may not care for interoperability with EZ-Pass or even the pass(es) in Los Angeles and San Diego.

FasTrak, the statewide electronic toll collection system in California, works on all public toll roads and toll crossings statewide, but probably not the relatively few private ones (for example I don't think FasTrak is honored on 17 Mile Drive (http://www.pebblebeach.com/activities/explore-the-monterey-peninsula/17-mile-drive) on the Monterey Peninsula, which is owned by a private entity).

Glad to hear it.  I guess I picked a bad example.  However, my point is still valid.  Unless forced to, FasTrak has very little incentive to be interoperable with other agencies.  On the other hand, how many people with an EZ-Pass equipped car will e driving it in California?

Still, wouldn't it be better to have a system that can read passes from other areas even if you aren't going to do the data interchange needed to support them now.  And for the driving public, you would think that economies of scale would kick in if there were a common transponder standard.

Quote from: mightyace on January 23, 2012, 04:43:37 PM

Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 22, 2012, 08:24:41 PM

Quote from: mightyace on January 20, 2012, 12:21:25 PM
And, some large agencies may not as well.  The authority running the Golden Gate Bridge may not care for interoperability with EZ-Pass or even the pass(es) in Los Angeles and San Diego.

FasTrak, the statewide electronic toll collection system in California, works on all public toll roads and toll crossings statewide, but probably not the relatively few private ones (for example I don't think FasTrak is honored on 17 Mile Drive (http://www.pebblebeach.com/activities/explore-the-monterey-peninsula/17-mile-drive) on the Monterey Peninsula, which is owned by a private entity).

Glad to hear it.  I guess I picked a bad example.  However, my point is still valid.  Unless forced to, FasTrak has very little incentive to be interoperable with other agencies.  On the other hand, how many people with an EZ-Pass equipped car will e driving it in California?

Still, wouldn't it be better to have a system that can read passes from other areas even if you aren't going to do the data interchange needed to support them now.  And for the driving public, you would think that economies of scale would kick in if there were a common transponder standard.

Cars?  Relatively few, though I have seen vehicles with registration plates from the East in California, including cars displaying registration from my home state of Maryland.

Trucks (and especially truck tractors, or power units)?  Much more common.  The owners and operators of such vehicles would (and will) benefit from nationwide interoperability.

And consider also that some people might want to take a transponder with them for use in a rental car, especially in the San Francisco Bay Area, and in Orange County, with its extensive system of toll roads.

Thread resurrected only because I saw an article saying that the Rickenbacker and Venetian Causeways in Miami are supposed to convert to SunPass this year (http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/01/05/sunpass-to-replace-c-pass-on-causeways/). Since I had mentioned before that they did not, I thought I'd update the thread. I assume the other non-SunPass facilities mentioned by others will continue as they were.

is FL gonna accept E-Z pass soon? are they now? i know they were working on it.

Quote from: YankeesFan on March 28, 2012, 09:44:14 PM
is FL gonna accept E-Z pass soon? are they now? i know they were working on it.

The tourists are going to spend a week waiting in line once they get to Disney. This way they get to practice by waiting in line at a couple of toll booths on the way to Disney!

Quote from: YankeesFan on March 28, 2012, 09:44:14 PM
is FL gonna accept E-Z pass soon? are they now? i know they were working on it.

Not yet, according to this TOLLROADSnews report (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/5697) from January 2012 (emphasis added):

QuoteA draft agreement between the E-ZPass Group and Florida is about 90% complete. He said they don't have a rigid timetable but they may be able to have the major elements of interoperability (IOP) in place by the end of this year.

Quote from: YankeesFan on March 28, 2012, 09:44:14 PM
is FL gonna accept E-Z pass soon? are they now? i know they were working on it.

As has been discussed earlier in this thread, if you're planning a trip to Florida in the near future, just go ahead and get the SunPass Mini. It costs $4.99. As of last June when I got mine, the Mini included $5 of toll credit as long as you used it within a certain amount of time, so the device worked out to be free. I don't see anything about the $5 credit on their website (SunPass.com), so maybe that's been discontinued, but still, the $5 cost for the Mini is more palatable than the $25 for the standard device, especially for non-Florida residents because there is no refund on the $25 if you cancel your account.

Also, as discussed previously in this thread, the stuff they say about how you must attach the Mini permanently to your windshield is bollocks. I attached mine with Scotch tape and it's worked fine on both trips so far (I saw the green light come on in the SunPass Only lanes at the non-ORT toll plazas). It doesn't interfere with the E-ZPass up here and the E-ZPass doesn't interfere with the SunPass when I'm in Florida.

I'll be interested in knowing whether there will be any surcharge for E-ZPass customers going through SunPass lanes. If so, I'll just keep the SunPass account even after interoperability. I might do it anyway simply out of laziness and convenience.

(Back in my first post that started this thread I said I didn't anticipate driving to Florida all that often and so I wasn't sure the device would be long-term useful. It's turned out that we find it cheaper to drive down there, or drive one-way and take the Auto Train the other, than it is to fly and rent a car. So I'm glad I have the SunPass since we have three sets of relatives we visit down there at least once a year.)

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 29, 2012, 10:07:03 AM

Quote from: YankeesFan on March 28, 2012, 09:44:14 PM
is FL gonna accept E-Z pass soon? are they now? i know they were working on it.

Not yet, according to this blog post (//http://)

FTFY.

TOLLROADSnews: E-ZPass Group makes major moves for national interoperability - affiliate membership, publication specs (http://www.tollroadsnews.com/node/6065)

QuoteThe E-ZPass Group has formally agreed to major moves towards national interoperability in electronic tolling. They passed an amendment to their standard operating agreement at a recent monthly meeting to accommodate outside toll systems as 'Affiliate Members' a new status that won't require them to comply with all the detailed technical specifications and procedures required of full Members of E-ZPass.

QuoteA statement issued today by the E-ZPass Group says: "In the next few weeks, the E-ZPass Group will make available to other industry organizations all of the file specifications, business rules, test plans and other data that have enabled E-ZPass to become the world-wide leader in interoperability over the past 17 years. This sharing of information, through a dedicated interoperability portal on the E-ZPass website will assist other toll agencies in advancing interoperability between systems."

QuoteMajor state toll systems with multiple toll agencies but full in-state interoperability (IOP) but currently no out-of-state IOP include Florida, Texas and California.  They are the big candidates with E-ZPass for national IOP.

QuoteOther major state systems outside E-ZPass are Oklahoma, Kansas, Colorado, Washington.

^^^

Good to hear.  This is a major step toward being able to use a single transponder/tag nationwide.

Reviving a very old thread because I want to ask a question related to the topic I raised years ago when I started this thread and I'd rather not start a new discussion.

As was advised by Florida residents earlier in this thread, I've had a SunPass Mini attached to my windshield with scotch tape for years now and it's always worked fine. I have two of our three cars registered to my SunPass account, but we've only ever taken one of them to Florida. That's now going to change. My wife got a new used car yesterday and we'll almost certainly take that one when we go to Miami in July. I've already added it to my SunPass account, but my question is–is it still important to move the SunPass Mini sticker into her car before we head south, or is it OK just to ignore it and let them read the plate and bill it accordingly? My gut feeling is to transfer the device and to use scotch tape, just as I have in mine, especially because the odds are we'll continue to use her car for future trips (it's 11 years newer and has less mileage and various niceties like adaptive cruise control). But I thought I'd inquire whether anyone has any experience driving on SunPass facilities (not including the toll-by-plate facilities) in a car registered to a SunPass account but without the transponder.

Thanks in advance.

Anyone needing both can get a North Carolina Quick Pass.

https://www.myncquickpass.com/en/home/index.shtml

It's compatible with both E-ZPass and SunPass. I go to Florida only occasionally (last time -- in my car -- was in 2012), but I have it for when I need it.

Quote from: Jordanes on May 29, 2017, 03:50:13 PM
Anyone needing both can get a North Carolina Quick Pass.

https://www.myncquickpass.com/en/home/index.shtml

It's compatible with both E-ZPass and SunPass. I go to Florida only occasionally (last time -- in my car -- was in 2012), but I have it for when I need it.

I looked into that but did not like their terms of service where they won't let you register more cars to your account than you have transponders. We have four cars for two people, so we don't need four transponders. Other thing in our case is that with the new I-66 HO/T operation coming soon inside the Beltway, on which HOV-2 will ride free, we're going to need E-ZPass Flexes, and QuickPass doesn't have the "Flex" feature. Hence why I'm sticking with having separate E-ZPass and SunPass accounts.

It is unbelievable that, after so many years, the parties involved haven't figured out E-ZPass/SunPass compatibility.  With there being so many people from the northeastern and midwestern core of E-ZPass who travel to Florida, wouldn't it make sense for everyone involved to get this done, one way or another?

Quote from: Jim on May 29, 2017, 04:17:33 PM
It is unbelievable that, after so many years, the parties involved haven't figured out E-ZPass/SunPass compatibility.  With there being so many people from the northeastern and midwestern core of E-ZPass who travel to Florida, wouldn't it make sense for everyone involved to get this done, one way or another?

Yeah, although as I noted above the E-ZPass Flex is a new wrinkle in the process (though it affects only a very small number of people compared to the entire customer base for the two systems).

Thread bumped because I just found the page linked below discussing a new CFX transponder offering, the "E-Pass Xtra." They rolled it out when they started accepting E-ZPass and it's compatible with SunPass, E-ZPass, Peach Pass, Quick Pass, and a few others. Crucially from my point of view, it does not offer E-ZPass Flex capability, so I won't be getting one for at least the next few years (once I-66 inside the Beltway requires three people to ride free I might reconsider), but I figured some folks might find this interesting.

https://www.cfxway.com/e-pass-xtra/


BTW, link below is to a map of the CFX area showing where E-ZPass is and is not accepted. I have to think it'll be confusing for some people that some ORT gantries on a given road will accept it and others won't. (Also of mild interest, the top left corner of the map shows where the FL-429 extension to I-4 is to be, for those who didn't know.)

https://www.cfxway.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/08.01.18Map-of-CFX-Roads-Accepting-E-ZPassFinal-1.pdf

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 25, 2018, 10:38:40 AM
BTW, link below is to a map of the CFX area showing where E-ZPass is and is not accepted. I have to think it'll be confusing for some people that some ORT gantries on a given road will accept it and others won't. (Also of mild interest, the top left corner of the map shows where the FL-429 extension to I-4 is to be, for those who didn't know.)

https://www.cfxway.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/08.01.18Map-of-CFX-Roads-Accepting-E-ZPassFinal-1.pdf

If I'm interpreting it correctly, this actually makes things worse for someone like me with a NY Thruway E-ZPass transponder and a SunPass sticker.  Until now, we could have both up there and whichever was needed would be used.  If we travel on one of the CFX routes that takes either, would we have to unmount and put our E-ZPass into one of the bags that stops it from reading to avoid a double charge?

It remains beyond my comprehension why it is so hard to get interoperability now that toll-by-plate is reliable enough to be used in so many places.  I should be able to register my plate so any toll-by-plate facility would be able to charge to my E-ZPass account.  Wouldn't that be more efficient for all of these agencies and more convenient for travelers?

It claims you won't be charged twice, but on the other hand, the way it is written refers to E-Pass customers not being charged twice. The E-Pass is the CFX ETC system. It's fully interoperable with SunPass, but from the way their page is written, it's not clear to me whether the "won't be charged twice" assurance is meant to apply to SunPass users or just to people who have actual E-Pass transponders. Like you, we have a SunPass Mini sticker (taped to the windshield) and an E-ZPass Flex. In the past, I haven't bothered to remove the E-ZPass on trips to Florida. Now I may do so if we'll be headed through the Orlando area. We don't have a "no-read bag" because Virginia doesn't give you one (and our Flex devices probably wouldn't fit in my old New Jersey bag, if I could find it), so I may just wrap it in foil when we head south for Christmas. I'd rather not have to try to obtain a credit from Virginia for the tolls because I have a feeling they'd be utterly unhelpful about it.

I believe the theory of how it is supposed to work is that the CFX facility's system will detect both your devices and will give the E-Pass (or, hopefully, the SunPass) "priority" (for lack of a better word) such that it gets billed and then the E-ZPass doesn't get billed. I have no idea how it knows that both transponders are associated with that particular vehicle. On some of the quieter toll roads, like FL-429 near its northern end, I guess that's straightforward, but on busy segments like the Bee Line it seems it'd be a lot less clear. I guess it has something to do with there being two devices read in the same toll lane within less than a second of each other.

BTW, I'm wary of trusting Florida's toll-by-plate systems after my wife's experience this summer. It's discussed in another thread, but boiled down to the essentials, she didn't take our SunPass Mini with her when she flew down for a visit this summer. Instead, she called me before leaving the rental car lot and gave me the license plate number and I added it to our SunPass account right then via their website. The idea was to avoid the rental-car agency surcharge for tolls. No luck. SOME tolls posted to our SunPass account. Some didn't. No rhyme nor reason to what did or didn't post, either. So she still got a separate charge to her credit card from the rental-car agency a few weeks later. Based on all that, I'm perfectly happy to continue using our transponders for the time being even if it might be less "convenient" than toll-by-plate "should" be.

Following up on this to say we passed through the Orlando area yesterday via the northern end of FL-429 (to get a re-clinch) and the Turnpike. When we entered FL-429 from FL-46 there was a white sign that said "BEGIN E-ZPASS ACCEPTED"  and when we exited into the Turnpike there was a similar sign saying "END E-ZPASS ACCEPTED."  I have no idea how quickly tolls would post because I had removed ours in favor of the SunPass. The CFX tolls posted to the SunPass overnight. I suppose I ought to check the E-ZPass statement this week to confirm I wasn't double-charged because we didn't have a "no-read bag"  with us.

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 23, 2018, 08:28:47 AM
Following up on this to say we passed through the Orlando area yesterday via the northern end of FL-429 (to get a re-clinch) and the Turnpike. When we entered FL-429 from FL-46 there was a white sign that said "BEGIN E-ZPASS ACCEPTED"  and when we exited into the Turnpike there was a similar sign saying "END E-ZPASS ACCEPTED."  I have no idea how quickly tolls would post because I had removed ours in favor of the SunPass. The CFX tolls posted to the SunPass overnight. I suppose I ought to check the E-ZPass statement this week to confirm I wasn't double-charged because we didn't have a "no-read bag"  with us.

Related: they could really use better signage for accepted transponders on the CFX portion of FL 429. Catching it southbound from the Turnpike last Friday, I wasn't entirely sure whether or not my Peach Pass would be accepted. I almost went into the cash lanes at the first toll plaza before finally spying a tiny SunPass logo (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5050171,-81.6122382,3a,75y,205.98h,95.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s870rLabPc3jN-I-fkXIgYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) on one of the last signs.

Honestly, there's still some doubt. I just checked my Peach Pass account, and this appears to be the only toll from last weekend that has not yet posted to it. Everything else (including the SunPass-native plaza further south on 429) is there.

Quote from: Eth on December 23, 2018, 12:53:07 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 23, 2018, 08:28:47 AM
Following up on this to say we passed through the Orlando area yesterday via the northern end of FL-429 (to get a re-clinch) and the Turnpike. When we entered FL-429 from FL-46 there was a white sign that said "BEGIN E-ZPASS ACCEPTED"  and when we exited into the Turnpike there was a similar sign saying "END E-ZPASS ACCEPTED."  I have no idea how quickly tolls would post because I had removed ours in favor of the SunPass. The CFX tolls posted to the SunPass overnight. I suppose I ought to check the E-ZPass statement this week to confirm I wasn't double-charged because we didn't have a "no-read bag"  with us.

Related: they could really use better signage for accepted transponders on the CFX portion of FL 429. Catching it southbound from the Turnpike last Friday, I wasn't entirely sure whether or not my Peach Pass would be accepted. I almost went into the cash lanes at the first toll plaza before finally spying a tiny SunPass logo (https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5050171,-81.6122382,3a,75y,205.98h,95.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s870rLabPc3jN-I-fkXIgYQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) on one of the last signs.

Honestly, there's still some doubt. I just checked my Peach Pass account, and this appears to be the only toll from last weekend that has not yet posted to it. Everything else (including the SunPass-native plaza further south on 429) is there.

SunPass is accepted at all electronic tolling facilities in the state, along with anything compatible with SunPass, so all electronic tolls in the state accept SunPass, Peach Pass, NC Quick Pass, E Pass, O Pass, Lee Way. There are a handful of private bridges in the state that are cash only and do not accept any electronic tolling system

E-ZPass is compatible with E Pass (but not vice versa, unless you buy an E Pass Xtra), and LeeWay with Palmetto Pass (and supposedly coming to the rest of the state shortly, I don't see any news on that), but not compatible with other systems throughout the state, from my understanding. My understanding is within the state of Florida, E Pass gives maximum discounts, as E Pass gets SunPass/Leeway discounts, but not vice versa. E Pass is also the cheapest transponders, and with the Xtra, is by far the most compatible (18 states).

Dear heavens.  We need total interoperability.  Now.

At least all the Florida transponders are interoperable with everything SunPass is and vice versa, with things only really getting tricky where one of the local transponders is interoperable with something SunPass isn't.  Contrast to Texas, where it's just a free for all.

All these incompatible RFID toll tag systems operating on our national highway network is just another clear example of how badly detached the federal government has become at managing our national highway network.

There should be only ONE toll tag standard nationwide. That tid bit should have been resolved over 20 years ago when the first standards were being put in place (like the PikePass system here in Oklahoma). But no! The good 'ole boy network crap had to reign supreme. So now we have all these incompatible RFID systems with lots of expensive-to-replace infrastructure built around them. It's all just...stupid.

All these different toll road agencies just need to pick out which standards works best in terms of read-ability and overall reliability and then transition to that. Oklahoma has gone through a couple toll tag standards. Otherwise they might as well just read license plates and try to get it done that way. I miss the old soap bar PikePass transponders, partly because they were removable. They didn't have to stay stuck to the windshield 100% of the time.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 29, 2018, 07:49:13 PM
All these incompatible RFID toll tag systems operating on our national highway network is just another clear example of how badly detached the federal government has become at managing our national highway network.

There should be only ONE toll tag standard nationwide. That tid bit should have been resolved over 20 years ago when the first standards were being put in place (like the PikePass system here in Oklahoma). But no! The good 'ole boy network crap had to reign supreme. So now we have all these incompatible RFID systems with lots of expensive-to-replace infrastructure built around them. It's all just...stupid.

All these different toll road agencies just need to pick out which standards works best in terms of read-ability and overall reliability and then transition to that. Oklahoma has gone through a couple toll tag standards. Otherwise they might as well just read license plates and try to get it done that way. I miss the old soap bar PikePass transponders, partly because they were removable. They didn't have to stay stuck to the windshield 100% of the time.

Of course the flipside of that is it likely would be impossible to have any future innovation in the field if the feds do it. Coordinating an upgrade would never happen... if it was done decades ago, I think we'd all still be stuck with toll lanes maxing at 25mph, and batteries constantly dying. Even within Florida, E Pass clearly led the charge with open road, full speed tolling while SunPass lagged behind, although SunPass eventually offered Toll by Plate before E Pass did (I don't think they have it anywhere formally yet, although they seem to do it if you just run the tolls).

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 23, 2018, 08:28:47 AM
Following up on this to say we passed through the Orlando area yesterday via the northern end of FL-429 (to get a re-clinch) and the Turnpike. When we entered FL-429 from FL-46 there was a white sign that said "BEGIN E-ZPASS ACCEPTED"  and when we exited into the Turnpike there was a similar sign saying "END E-ZPASS ACCEPTED."  I have no idea how quickly tolls would post because I had removed ours in favor of the SunPass. The CFX tolls posted to the SunPass overnight. I suppose I ought to check the E-ZPass statement this week to confirm I wasn't double-charged because we didn't have a "no-read bag"  with us.

Following up on the above–I finally got around to checking my E-ZPass statement tonight (didn't get to it sooner because I had changed the password last month and, of course, I had forgotten what the new one was until I looked in the secure file on my PC). I had stuck the E-ZPass Flex in the center armrest while we were driving on the CFX facility (FL-429) and that seemed to do the job–it wasn't charged.

It took a little while for the CFX charges to post to the SunPass account, BTW–I expected that when we stopped at a service area on the Turnpike I'd get an American Express notification on my phone that the SunPass had replenished, but I didn't get one, and then later that day shortly after we passed the Lantana barrier my Apple Watch dinged me with the Amex notification. The Turnpike toll was something like $12 and it actually gave my SunPass account a negative balance prior to the replenishment.

Quote from: UCFKnightsOf course the flipside of that is it likely would be impossible to have any future innovation in the field if the feds do it. Coordinating an upgrade would never happen... if it was done decades ago, I think we'd all still be stuck with toll lanes maxing at 25mph, and batteries constantly dying. Even within Florida, E Pass clearly led the charge with open road, full speed tolling while SunPass lagged behind, although SunPass eventually offered Toll by Plate before E Pass did (I don't think they have it anywhere formally yet, although they seem to do it if you just run the tolls).

The government doesn't necessarily have to be involved in steering a uniform toll tag standard that works nation-wide. But the feds may be forced to get involved unless all these different companies pushing incompatible standards can get over their selfish egos and come up with something that works everywhere in the United States. It's overdue. They need it get it done already.

We have plenty of other pieces of technology that took no government intervention to be standardized. I'm a big home theater fan and recall the days of the DVD and Blu-ray formats coming into their own, with both having to defeat inferior, incompatible standards. The graveyard of computing technology is littered with the bones of many dead software applications, storage formats and other peripherals that lost out to something better.

There's lots of different brands of debit and credit cards. But they all have the same size form factor. They've been using the same magnetic stripe technology for decades and lately have been transitioning to a more secure, standardized chip system. The credit and banking industry is an overwhelmingly far bigger, more complicated animal than a few toll road authorities. Yet they managed to agree on a standard that works nationwide (or really in many nations).

Bumping an old thread, since the topic seems to fit...

A few weeks ago, I worked in South FL for a couple of weeks.  I did a one-time replenishment on my NC Quick Pass account for $30 before I headed down there because I estimated spending about that much in tolls (used the Turnpike, Sawgrass, and Alligator Alley).  I have yet to see any of these charges on my Quick Pass account.   Is the SunPass system that far behind with their billing?  A couple of weeks ago, I used a couple of the toll facilities in Hampton Roads, and they were charged to my Quicj Pass account fairly quickly, like within a couple of days.

That seems late to me.  At least when I was billed for "by plate," it only took two weeks or so.

I found that some of the toll booths on 528 from Orlando to Cocoa don't actually read the NC transponders (I have a hard case) and bill by a photo of your license plate insteas. It took a couple weeks for the bill to post to my NCQP account.

Quote from: orulz on February 24, 2020, 08:54:05 AM
I found that some of the toll booths on 528 from Orlando to Cocoa don't actually read the NC transponders (I have a hard case) and bill by a photo of your license plate insteas. It took a couple weeks for the bill to post to my NCQP account.

This is part of what makes Florida's tolls complicated. The road you're referring to is a CFX operation, whereas the roads wriddle082 referred to are FTE operations. That may make a difference in when (or whether) tolls post.

I would hope that CFX's toll gantries can read both the eGo/ISO 6B RFID style signal (used on the Sunpass and Quickpass stickers) from a NC Quickpass and the 915Mhz E-ZPass IAG protocol (used on the hard case style transmitters). The TransCore readers likely in use on their roads should do both.

https://transcore.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Encompass-6-Rdr-PP.pdf

If they are doing "bill-by-plate" with E-ZPass instead of reading tags, it's a bit of a money loser for CFX.

Overall the Orlando area is a mess. The western most plaza on 528 (and most used by non-locals) is on a FTE maintained stretch and doesn't accept E-ZPass.

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 24, 2020, 08:42:58 PM
Overall the Orlando area is a mess. The western most plaza on 528 (and most used by non-locals) is on a FTE maintained stretch and doesn't accept E-ZPass.

My NCQP was read just fine by that one. Not so for the other ones.

Quote from: orulz on February 26, 2020, 02:56:22 PM

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 24, 2020, 08:42:58 PM
Overall the Orlando area is a mess. The western most plaza on 528 (and most used by non-locals) is on a FTE maintained stretch and doesn't accept E-ZPass.

My NCQP was read just fine by that one. Not so for the other ones.

This is exactly the sort of thing that shouldn't happen, in theory. I wonder whether the system could somehow be tripped up by the CFX roads being compatible with both SunPass and E-ZPass, such that the system didn't know how to handle the Quick Pass because it likewise works with both systems, so it didn't know whether to bill it as a SunPass or an E-ZPass? (I have no idea whether this is the case, I'm just speculating. I assume a CFX facility could double-bill you if you had both a SunPass and an E-ZPass in place, but a Quick Pass should work differently.)

On 1/21 I drove the Turnpike southbound from Ft. Pierce to FL 823 (Red Rd) in Miramar.  On 1/24 I went westbound on Alligator Alley, and on 1/26 I went eastbound.  Then on 1/31 I drove all of the Sawgrass northbound and then the Turnpike northbound from Sawgrass to Ft Pierce.  Before and after those dates, my NCQP account has transactions from the Midtown Tunnel, Downtown Tunnel, and Dominion Blvd in the Hampton Roads area.  FTE should have charged my NCQP account around $30 for all of those transactions by now, since the oldest is now over a month old.  Since I was driving a company vehicle using my personal transponder, I might have to contact my company's fleet manager and see if they have received any sort of "bill by plate"  bill from FTE, since it won't come to my house.  I think I'm gonna go that route before I contact FTE on my own.

Hate to resurrect an old topic but traveling to MCO for the first time since E-ZPass was introduced in Florida.  Do the tolls in Florida read the transponder or just look up the license plate?  I'm planning to bring my transponder but wonder if I will get an error when trying to add a plate to my account (which often happens in the northeast because the companies often register to my agency, so I have to just use my transponder unregistered).

They read the transponder. I didn't have much luck with my old "square" style E-ZPass getting consistently read though. I have since gotten one of the new generation tags, but haven't been in FL yet to see if those work better!